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Puppy to Adult color progression
  • ZinjaZinja
    Posts: 200
    Hi,

    I will be getting my Shiba Inu puppy in a few weeks and would like some help to determine the adult Shiba Inu's coat color.

    I noticed on a few of the member's puppy/adult pictures that the Black markings on the sides of the muzzle disappears as the puppy grows older. Has anyone else's Shiba Inu demonstrated this? Does the majority of the darker colors fade?

    I know this may sound picky, but I would perfer not to have the black markings on the cheeks and underside, but rather Urajiro. I have three dogs with a black mask and would like the Shiba to be unique.

    Before and after pictures would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

    -Joe

    [changed category ~mod.]
    Post edited by curlytails at 2013-06-17 12:28:36
  • NekopanNekopan
    Posts: 403
    Almost all Shiba pups are born with black muzzles. It fades as they grow older. It's almost impossible as a pup to see how the urajiro will turn out. It's also difficult to judge which will be reds and which will be sesame. I suggest if you want a red with good urajiro, pick from a breeding in which the parents demonstrate good urajiro.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    By 18 months the black mask will usually fade out, BUT, you can better tell by looking at older siblings, parents and grandparents. If the breeder has a lot of adult dogs with black masks (undesirable in conformation), there is good chance your pup will retain a black mask as well. I think sesame dogs are allowed to have more black on their faces, maybe a little on the sides of the muzzle and under the chin without fault, but it looks ugly on a red (from a conformation standpoint). Sometimes you see a completely black muzzle and black sprinkle all over the face on an adult which I think at this point breeders don't want in their programmes. Again, it's just a variation in colour that usually fades as they age.

    The 1st pic is Beebe at about 4 months, it's poor quality, but you can see a little of her mask. She had quite a dark mask as a baby. Short of counting her sesame hairs, I guess she is a pet quality red sesame (I still want to call her Dirty Red).
    The next pic is her just before Thanksgiving at 16 months, she still has a bit of black under her chin.
    Post edited by lindsayt at 2008-12-02 12:39:47
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8589
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    Posts: 3433
  • Guinness at 3 or 4 weeks
    Post edited by ILuvMy2Shibas at 2008-12-02 11:43:43
  • Guinness about 2 weeks ago i've notices that his is starting to turn white, but his black on his snout is almost gone!!!
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 1165
    Ichi's coat very much reflects everyone's sentiments here. I think his muzzle will fade but I'm keeping an eye out for the black underneath his chin because it's still quite strong.

    I'm uploading 4 pictures to show Ichi's progression from 4 weeks, 8 weeks, and then 2 shots at 15 weeks to show how different his coat looks after blowing the puppy coat.

    You can see the black bar/hash mark on his tail in the last pic (Guess the Nihonken clue).
    Post edited by CrimsonO2 at 2008-12-02 12:21:54
  • tobyshibatobyshiba
    Posts: 1121
    Post edited by tobyshiba at 2008-12-02 12:25:37
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2242
    Post edited by BradA1878 at 2008-12-02 15:36:06
  • ZinjaZinja
    Posts: 200
    This thread has helped me greatly! I thought there was something wrong with the parents because most of the puppies had the unfavored black markings, but didn't want to ask.

    Thank you all... I hope my shiba will be as beautiful as everyone's doggies!
  • Post edited by MommyofNiko at 2008-12-04 23:07:01
  • agfiu305agfiu305
    Posts: 9
  • Cute looking pup!
    I'd say he's going to be sesame. Molly had very light hair when we got her and it's got darker and darker has time went by. And sesame are the best :P
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1106
    @gfiu305,

    That's pretty normal to see darker hairs after a coat blow. Without the undercoat the guard hairs will show more. Dirty reds have a sprinkling of black. He will likely look more red again after it grows back.

    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/6768/weird-coat-changes/p1

    Doesn't mean sesame. Sesame is unmistakable and they would be much darker all over and when they are born. There are many other threads on coat colors and what is a true sesame.
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
  • EthosEthos
    Posts: 372
    When Akuma blows his coat he becomes much darker. most of his back becomes black when he is actually red sesame.
    Niko looks red to me.. very cute by the way :)
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1106
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
  • MikoMiko
    Posts: 225
  • Ginger started out white as a ghost.
    But she bloomed a bit of color as shes gotten older.

  • agfiu305agfiu305
    Posts: 9
    Thank you guys!

    This forum is a god-send for a first time Shiba owner. love the pics bdw
  • BayBay
    Posts: 58
  • jennjenn
    Posts: 856
  • BayBay
    Posts: 58
  • ShibaLoveShibaLove
    Posts: 554
    @Bay Griffin looks a lot like @Kobe1468 4 week photos. Here is another coat color thread and the picture I am referring to:
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/comment/191646#Comment_191646

    Griffin will probably be a red with some black like his papa. He is quite dark but he is so young he will probably loose most of it. He is super cute!
  • BayBay
    Posts: 58
    @ShibaLove Thanks for the link! It's quite surprising how much the color can change, I've only ever had cats and they are pretty constant with their colors from kitten to adult. Though maybe the shiba is unique is how seemingly "drastic" it can be. :)

    I think he will look like his dad too, but really, as long as he's healthy and happy it doesn't really matter. ^-^ It's just really fun and exciting to speculate on. I will post more pictures when I get him. Or before, I'm sure my breeder will be sending more shortly, especially now that we have our guy picked out.
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1590
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
  • BayBay
    Posts: 58
    @Wannashiba ~ You are correct! Zeus is his papa, his Mom is Pat-Cee. ^-^
    Yay for half-siblings!
    Ammy is gorgeous! Thanks for the pictures.
  • @ Bay - I can't wait to see more pictures of Griffin.
  • BayBay
    Posts: 58
    Post edited by Bay at 2013-10-24 15:51:13
  • Griffin is absolutely adorable. Yes, he looks lighter. I can definitely see the heart shape face coming through...love it!
    Doreen takes such a good care of her pups, she'll have Griffin crate-trained and mostly house-trained by 8 weeks. Ammy only had 3 pee accidents inside the house and that was only best we didn't know she was sitting at the door waiting for us to take her out. I'm so excited for you too. Brings back so many happy memories for me! :)
  • Post edited by Wannashiba at 2013-10-24 17:53:36
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Wannashiba I'm too lazy to look it up for you but dirty red and sesame are different...So please look up the threads to know the difference :) Dirty red is red with black spots and sesame...well those are rare and are totally different. @Hammond has a sesame shiba

    Edit:: I guess people used Red sesame(dirty red) as well on top of regular Sesame **confused**
    Post edited by Bootz at 2013-10-24 18:06:04
  • Thanks for the tip Bootz. I'll try to remember to use the right term next time.
  • BayBay
    Posts: 58
    @wannashiba - A lot of dark came in on Ammy from when she was a light little pup, it's neat how that happens. Super cute!
    Doreen has been great. Always updating us, answers all my questions, and I know she genuinely cares for every single pup she helps bring into the world. Couldn't of asked for better and I'm super happy with my choice in breeder.

    @sophiahan8 - omg Tira is such a cute little fluff! I love the longer haired shibas, so pretty.
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
  • BayBay
    Posts: 58
  • Sweet!!! They are chunky especially the 2nd one from the left.
    Post edited by Wannashiba at 2013-10-29 17:03:24
  • jennjenn
    Posts: 856
  • Kiba0713Kiba0713
    Posts: 259
    I feel like I havent seen as much written about B&T color changes as with reds. Have any B&T owners noticed changes in their shibas coat as they age? Kiba at 4 and a half months is starting to get some white on his paws where they were previously all tan, and a little bit of white on his tan "eyebrow" spots, which also seem to be extending over his eyes in a brow shape, just a subtle amount of tan. He also has some white showing through on the sides of his face and neck that wasnt there before, peaking through the black. His dad is a black and tan and his mom is a cream. I wonder if his markings will continue to change a lot.
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
  • Post edited by bellatheshibainu at 2013-11-22 15:30:51
  • Kiba0713Kiba0713
    Posts: 259
    @Rikka Oh yeah he definitely has more lightness around the eyes than in the puppy pic. Which is a little too adorable :)

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