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Neutering: best time, how old
  • ShibatasticShibatastic
    Posts: 143
    Hey everyone, i was wondering when it would be best to neuter my pup? Some people say between 3-6 months old before they start adolescence but some people say 8-12months old; Something to do with proper bone development etc. What are your opinions on this? I just want to do it at the right time before he gets into his spraying age.

    Not to mention this doggy daycare facility requires my dog to be neutered before i can leave him there when I go to work. I don't want to have him being alone for such a long period of time ya know?

    [added keywords to title ~mod.]
    Post edited by curlytails at 2013-08-03 19:16:01
  • JessicaRabbitJessicaRabbit
    Posts: 2217
    IMHO smaller dogs like shibas can be spayed a little earlier than large dogs who are better off waiting until ideally a year at least. 6-8 months is fine, especially if you have to wait to enroll him in doggy day care until he is neutered.

    There are literally hundreds of articles telling you the pros and cons of both sides. And honestly there are very valid arguments on both sides. So trust your gut, and go with that.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    Post edited by shibamistress at 2010-05-31 01:19:59
  • InoushiInoushi
    Posts: 555
    I second what everyone is saying here, its really up to you. I personally prefer to wait, I do believe its important that your dog have certain hormones at certain times. However I know a lot of the people who choose to wait longer are owners of big dogs. I'm looking to neuter my male shiba at a year, but if he starts misbehaving I will adjust the time accordingly. How young is your pup? I know a lot of day-cares will take in intact puppies till at least four months of age.
  • I waited until MoJo was 7 months old. I would have had him neutered at 6, but he kept having outbreaks of giardia. I brought him home from the breeders with it, he'd be on antibiotics for 10 days, tested, it would be gone, then it would come back a few weeks later. It was a strong strain back then, so I had to wait another month. My vet told me as long as the testicles are decended fully (by 6 months they are), it was ok to neuter a smaller dog. I wanted to get it done because I felt it would calm him down some (which it did). He was also a "humper" and neutering took away that type of dominance.
  • velvetkatvelvetkat
    Posts: 497
    Just to add my 2 cents I had my male neutered at 6 months. One reason was because the vet wanted to wait until his adult teeth grew in incase he had to pull any baby teeth that had not fallen out.(they are already asleep so this makes it easier) He did pull out two teeth and clean his teeth as for some reason one of his adult teeth had horrible tarter build up. His testicles had just started decsending at that time. Luckily he has not started marking or lifting his leg nor humps anything. He is now 9 months old. My sons boxer who is 21 months old still does not lift his leg nor mark and was neutered really young.
  • JessicaRabbitJessicaRabbit
    Posts: 2217
    Just an FYI to everyone neutering has little to nothing to do with a dogs desire to mark or lift his leg. My Shiba Moto was neutered by the rescue at 4 months. He lifted his leg from day one and peed on EVERYTHING outside. My husband called him the "pee pee bandit". He even trained my FEMALE Shikoku to lift her leg. She pees with a leg up, sometimes she even poops with a leg up (and it is as ridiculous looking as you would imagine). I know male intact dogs who still squat too. So don't let that be a contributor to when you choose to neuter your animal.
  • KBBD83KBBD83
    Posts: 249
    Oh thanks for this thread. I planned on getting Marshall neutered at 6 months. He has started humping my leg on occasion, and I'll have none of that business so i can't wait until those things are outta there.
  • InoushiInoushi
    Posts: 555
    I just want to add, neutering doesn't stop leg humping, trust me, Ive had that experience with more then a fair share of neutered dogs, even females. I have even heard of cases where dogs didn't start leg humping until after they were neutered. Plus if it happens, say a few months before you do it, it goes from being something neutering can curve down to a learned behavior you must work with to correct. Its best to work on it now, just treat it like any other bad behavior, and it'll stop.
  • KBBD83KBBD83
    Posts: 249
    Ah, good to know! Thanks!
  • myamamomyamamo
    Posts: 51
    I recently fostered a male Shiba that looked like he was an adolescent Shiba. He was already 2, but looked like he was a gawky puppy (approx. 6-7 months). A few breeders mentioned that he would look always look "young" and not fill out like most male Shibas do because they believed he was neutered at too young of an age. Sadly - he was a shelter Shiba so I'll never know at what age he was neutered.

    For those of you who had your boys neutered before 6 months - would you agree that your Shiba has a "youthful look"? or did they fill out with deep chests and strong muscle tone? Just wondering if it falls in line with what many breeders told me.
  • sarahnyasarahnya
    Posts: 25
    Personally I wouldn't have him done until 6 months at least, preferably a year old when he is more mature. In fact I wish I'd never had Shiro fixed, he puts on weight so easily now the poor lad hardly eats anything lol. To be honest I had no choice though as I've got 3 intact bitches in the house and it would be hard work keeping them all split up!
  • JessicaRabbitJessicaRabbit
    Posts: 2217
    I will say my male who was neutered quite young (rescue, not by choice) filled out beautifully. He was perfect breed standard minus the nuts....
  • Just to say too, we had Saru fixed just after he turned 4 months. Basically when his balls dropped they were chopped. He is now 2 years old and he is beautiful! My only complaint is that he is just 1/2 an inch too tall for shiba standards. I haven't had any problems with him what so ever.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
  • myamamomyamamo
    Posts: 51
    Thanks everyone for your responses!
  • ShibatasticShibatastic
    Posts: 143
    ive read that neutering early actually makes dogs grow taller. Supposedly many agility trainers neuter their dogs as early as possible for them to grow taller. Confusing yet interesting if anyone knows why
  • speeedspeeed
    Posts: 57
    Sorry for bumping up this old post but I wanted to continue the discussion of when to neuter.

    As far as aggression in dogs, does neutering stop this behavior? I now know that marking/lifting legs happens whether they are intact or not, but what about aggression.

    People are always saying that when their dogs get aggressive, they chop their balls and they're more calm. But isn't this a misattribution to bad doggy training on the owners part? Or am I wrong?
  • Would say, It really depends on the reason for aggression.....behavior varies from dog to dog. In some cases, yes it does help.

    Overall neutering seems to result is a more cooperative dog as far as focus and training.

    If a dog is not socialized well to begin with, spay/neuter is not going to change that.

    Snf
  • speeedspeeed
    Posts: 57
    well just the argument of male-male aggression.

    I just saw another thread on here that it will reduce aggression and also wandering and the need to escape to find a mate.

    I'm not so worried about the other reasons of neutering/not neutering. just the scientific (medical) and behavioral reasons.
  • IMO I would spay a female, but not neuter a male.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
  • LeoJDHuLeoJDHu
    Posts: 323
    Post edited by LeoJDHu at 2012-07-25 13:25:43
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    @Araks did with her Min Pin. I don't know if any other members have. There might be some...
    That's what I'd do if I were not going to breed a male and I had an intact female.
  • TriggerTrigger
    Posts: 72
    Trigger is almost 6 months old now, I have read a bunch of articles about neuter or spay a dog, talk with some veterinarians... To conclude that the medical reasons for neuter or spay a dog aren't clear for me. Trigger is a very healthy pup as many of other dogs, my french vet just asked me if I'm considering on neuter him or not, I said "not yet, we will see" she just told me "well, if you want to show him, he needs to be intact, and if we don't see any medical needs to neuter him, we won't"... We bought Trigger here in USA but I'm still in touch with my french vet. My vet here was more like "ok so, we can plan on neuter him around 6 months old" hmmmm... No! It seems to be an automatism here in the country.
    Do you know why? I asked my vet but he didn't seems really comfortable with giving me an answer and just told me that they are trying to control dogs population and breed quality (I totally understand that but as I told him, I won't breed Trigger if he is not an AKC champion but I would like to show him here and in France esp. for fun). I felt like I don't have the choice to neuter him or not and I don't appreciate it. (Anyways, he seems to be a good and honest vet).
  • AraksAraks
    Posts: 399
    @tatonka when we found my min pin, my cousin took ownership of him for a while, and she had the procedure done on him before he came to live with us. She had read stuff that lead her to that compared to the neutering, mostly personality based stuff which I'm not even sure is true or not.

    Sadly, we had to put Sevuk down a couple weeks back because he had a cancerous tumor growing on his heart, but I can share my experiences of these past 5 years: doing a vasectomy is literally like having the personality of an intact male dog, without them being able to breed. Sevuk was very much a little, "horn dog," and you could easily tell if a bitch was in heat by his behavior, since all the testosterone was still there. But, he had a veryyyyy stable temperament, and could handle most anything thrown at him mentally( if I remember correctly, this is the reason my cousin chose the vasectomy vs. neuter, since there had been some articles written about neutered dogs having extra anxiety, etc). Honestly, I had no problem dealing with an intact dog's personality, and would probably have the procedure done again if my future dog does some kind of performance sport and would benefit from the testosterone, or I wouldn't even fix him if he was in a cooperative home with me for the breeder to use in their breeding program. (Although I'd have to find another vet because the one that did Sevuk's, I recently found out, doesn't practice anymore.)

    Also, finding a vet that will do a vasectomy is very tough, as there are very few that will actually do it.
    Post edited by Araks at 2012-07-26 17:08:59
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
  • TriggerTrigger
    Posts: 72
    Thank you @Lindayt and @shibamistress, I used to have an intact female and know how it can be. But in France almost all yards are well fenced and we are not as much in the "dog park" concept etc as you guys, dogs are always leashed except sometime on the beach . Now I'm the USA I totally understand what you are pointing out. I'm guessing that if I'm responsible enough, keep Trigger intact won't be a mistake til I teach him to not hump people, mark inside etc and keep him leashed around intact female and always supervised.
    I keep in mind that I maybe will need to neuter him if he is not a good candidate to be a champion because we want a bitch from a reputable breeder in France (we will wait at least 6-7 years) and she will be keep intact.
    Again thank you all guys! your advices and knowledge are precious!!
  • AraksAraks
    Posts: 399
    @lindsayt I'd forgotten about the fact that they could still mate lol Maybe because the only action Sevuk ever got was with his stuffed animal.

    And yes, if I had a female, then I would get her spayed, as I've heard way too many problems occurring with them.
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
  • Females generally come into heat at around 6 months of age. As far as her rate of maturity, it depends on the genetics of the dog. What does you breeder say about this and what is written in your contract? If you breeder has a requirement then I would discuss this with them as they would have a better idea about their lines.

    Snf
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    @TrainedHuman, I didn't read this whole thread, but I waited until 10 months to neuter my boy. I went through 2-3 months where I could tell his hormones shifted and he began marking everywhere (luckily though not in our house) and humping me more, but I felt the added hormones during growth stage were more important, so I wanted to wait until he was a little older. Since neutering, his marking and humping has reduced significantly, so I know the process had a huge impact on his hormones.

    There are arguments on both sides though.

    I also, even though never used it, found a doggy day care willing to let Bear even un-neutered come to day care with the understanding if other dogs could not deal with it they would have to segregate him. Some people though chose to neuter early for the very reason it is more acceptable to day cares and other dog park owners.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
  • speeedspeeed
    Posts: 57
    Anyone neutered their male dogs and later have their dogs become aggressive towards other intact dogs?
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
  • MacMac
    Posts: 61
    Well i can say from the opposite side that neutered males do not like my unneutered male. He is still young but i delayed getting him fixed longer than i should have. its kinda sad. My boy tries to be all cute and play with them and he catches a face full of attitude.

    We seem to get a lot less attitude from the few unneutered males we have met which suprises me.

    Hopefully after he gets neutered they calm down and want to play with him.
  • hngu145hngu145
    Posts: 77
    I got haru neuter just recently at 7 month. Many people say between 6-8 so I just decided to do 7 month. He got dissolvable stitches when he got neuter and it have been 8 days already. The stitch is starting to show. I don't know if this is because he bit the stitch out or it suppose to be like that. Does anyone know?
  • When you say 'the stitch is starting to show' do you mean his incision is visible? Because Shiro's stitches started to dissolve within about 5 days of him being neutered. Usually they don't have to do anything, just monitor his progress and give him a final check-up to make sure everything's healed properly.
  • hngu145hngu145
    Posts: 77
    @Zantastic
    Yes I am starting to see his stitches. Would you mind if i sent you a picture of it to your message inbox?
  • MikoMiko
    Posts: 225
    @hngu145 I've heard of sutures dissolving at different rates depending on how thick they were , but maybe you can call the vet to make sure and recheck how long it should take. When miko was neutered his stitches also started dissolving within a week and i wasnt able to see them anymore.
    Post edited by Miko at 2013-08-08 08:44:55
  • Kiba0713Kiba0713
    Posts: 259
    My head is officially spinning with all the differing opinions on best age to neuter... Bumping this to see if there are any new opinions? Kiba is 7 months now and we were thinking of doing it around 9 months- our vet supported our decision not to rush it since Kiba was having health issues a few months ago (not that we would have done it before 6 months anyway, I think), so in my head I was imagining 9 months-1 year, so he could mature naturally.

    We are leaning now towards doing it sooner, because he is marking inside and humping when he gets excited, which he has done since he was very young but then it was mostly to things like pillows and chihuahuas, but now its to us and increasingly often. I thought the neuter would help with this, but the opinions on this thread seem to suggest that it might not. I guess in the end it sorta seems like whatever time we do it wont hurt him, but I just have to say its a little overwhelming to see so many different opinions on age and the effects. We are planning on starting now to explore our options, since our vet would be the more expensive option than finding someone else in the area.

    Does anyone feel like it would be better or worse to use their usual vet for a neuter- as in, will the dog then fear that vet from now on, or will a strange vet be scarier? (Just a curiosity, I'm sure it depends on the individual experience).
  • Kiba, I thought the SAME thing. My dog has an affinity for women and the vet I use now is a highly qualified woman who he ADORES (I hear shiba screams when we drive by and don't stop). My suggestion is trust your gut. My suggestion may be worthless since absent finding constructive outlets for chewing, I am by no means an expert.

    By the way, check out friends of animals. They do a discount spay neuter program, and my regular vet takes the "certificate". May save you some $.


  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
  • Kiba0713Kiba0713
    Posts: 259
    Thank you Banjo, I will look into that. A friend recommended another animal hospital nearby that they said was lower than the price we were quoted (to be honest I don't remember what they quoted us, it was a few months ago, but it was on the higher end).

    I think its adorable that your shiba screams when they dont get to stop at the vet, lol. Though we have the great fortune of our vet being about a block away from us, so we stop in sometimes on walks to say hello so he feels comfortable there.

    Thanks Kira- To be honest I feel similarly that I would want to feel comfortable with the people doing the operation, and I would never choose a "cheap" option for the sake of price alone if it didnt feel right. That's also why I want to look into it now, so that we can make an informed decision.
    Post edited by Kiba0713 at 2014-02-17 19:54:13
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
  • Kiba0713Kiba0713
    Posts: 259
    Thank you so much for the replies. I think reading "its a personal decision" is what I needed to hear.. Its still likely we'll wait till 8-9 months, but I want to figure out where we will do it and what we will need to prepare for- thank you Kira, for the tips.

    If it *wont* help with the marking/humping etc then I see no reason to rush it at all, but I suppose I'll hold out hope that it will help..

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