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Obedience Training - your preference?
  • katsukatsu
    Posts: 53
    Well, it's time for Katsu to "get schooled." My bf and I have been looking around at obedience training & puppy kindergarten in the area. We've found a couple but the reviews are mixed. We have also looked into one-on-one in-home training with a trainer we found on Bark Busters.

    What have been people's experiences in terms of puppy obedience training? What are the pros and cons you've found in terms of group classes vs. in-home one-on-one? So far, one big difference I'm seeing is the initial cost.

    Please share your experience, it'd be so helpful for us to make a decision :)
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I like group puppy class it's great for puppy socialization during the puppy play time.

    I like positive reinforcement type trainers.
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • Serkle kSerkle k
    Posts: 974
    Puppy kindergarten is basics, but usually more for puppy socialization since that is very important for any puppy, not just Shiba's. That is also dependent on where you go. I know most PetSmart puppy classes are just classes, with little socialization time.

    The puppy obedience training can be very helpful for basic manners as well. In-home-training is helpful, but again since your dog is still a pup, the socialization aspect is key.

    Personally, I had Stella in two different puppy classes at the same time (one at a PetSmart and another at a private training facility), so she was getting double the training, and still the adequate puppy play/socialization time. Was the dual classes necessary? Not really - especially since she is a very friendly Shiba as it is, but the cost was not as high as I had thought it could be, and at the same time I wanted more for her anyway.

    In case you haven't seen it, there is www.trulydogfriendly.com, and you may be able to find additional training places near you if you have not already found them all.

    Good luck, training should always be kept fun! And remember, look for positive reinforcement trainers!
    Post edited by Serkle k at 2011-01-04 16:20:59
  • jujeejujee
    Posts: 882
    Puppy socialization is a must. The training facility I took Mika to did basic training for the first 30-40 mins, and then 10-20 mins of puppy playtime with us supervising, and pulling them apart if they got too rough and having a break every 2-4 minutes. With the breaks, we were to get our dogs attention, then into a sit for a treat, then they could go off and play again.

    K posted a good site to visit to find trainers. GL!
    Julie with Mika the Shiba Inu and Kyuubi the Kai Ken - Life with the Inus
  • kwyldkwyld
    Posts: 506
    Bark Busters trains very similar to Cesar Milan, I would stay away from them. Clicker training is the gold standard. These links might be helpful in searching for trainers near you..

    http://www.clickertraining.com/
    http://apdt.com/
  • velvetkatvelvetkat
    Posts: 497
    I used Bark Busters because I was looking to keep my dog from running out the door whenever the door was opened. It worked and still works very well. They will work on whatever your needs are. In my area they now have puppy classes which is something they didnt have when my dog was a puppy. The individual training is expensive but in my case was well worth it. I was able to socialize my dog without going to the formal classes but if you arent able to do this yourself the puppy classes are great from all the posts Ive seen.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    Clicker training! And with a group, because there's no way you can OVERsocialize a puppy, but its so easy to undersocialize. Clicker training is by far the most motivating thing I've ever tried--the dogs love it, and my stubborn adult Shibas who seemed unable to be interested in any sort of training are fascinated with clicker training--if I'm using the clicker with my AA pup, they SO want to get in on the act and will volunteer behaviors from whereever they are (sitting,etc).

    I'm usually one of the "do it yourself" types as in I read a lot about clicker training and understood the theories behind it quite well, but the fact is, I needed the two classes I took with my pup to help me sort it out and work on timing, and Oskar needed the interaction with other dogs. I also took him to a puppy socialization which was very valuable.

    Make sure you ask a lot of questions about the training methods. Some people say they are positive trainers when they are not. I called one place that wanted me to use a prong collar on my 4 month old Akita puppy, and insisted I was making a huge mistake for not doing it. I've had people tell me positive training doesn't work, and if I knew what I was talking about, I'd know that. That's bullshit--it works, and it works very well, far better than anything other method, and it is especially critical with dogs likes Shibas (and Akitas) who are smart but not interested in pleasing people.

    I ended up doing private lessons with Oskar on his second class only because we don't have a lot of clicker trainers in my area, and she didn't have people for a full class. In my case, the price was the same, and he had fun, though I think he needs another group class.
    Lisa and Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akitas) and Leo (Kai Ken)
    From the House of the Fox Dogs blog
    Why it's Not About Dominance
    Bel's thread: the story of a puppy mill Shiba's life
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    I personally did petsmart for puppy obedience and intermediate. I spoke to the trainer before hand and really liked her approach (very positive and licker oriented) and then after puppy decided I wanted to train with her even more. I know of a few people who didn't have as good of an experience as we did with Petsmart, but we were very happy. It is true that Petsmart is more training than socialization, and you definitely want the socialization, which is extremely important. What we did for socialization was start out with puppy playdates with friends and family, and once Mitsu had all her shots, we put her in a once a week daycare. I love the facility and Mitsu gets so excited to go there and play; the staff was very patient with her when she started, and they were familiar with shibas, which was helpful. I even extended Mitsu's package.
    Post edited by atlas at 2011-01-04 18:58:53
  • Serkle kSerkle k
    Posts: 974
    IIRC Bark Buster's is a franchise kind of place. The trainer in my area that is part of Bark Buster's advertises as a positive trainer. I've not used him as our current trainer is also available to do home visits.
  • velvetkatvelvetkat
    Posts: 497
    The Bark Buster trainers I used were positive trainers The best thing is to ask a lot of questions so you make sure you the type of training you want for you pup.
    .
    Post edited by velvetkat at 2011-01-04 22:53:37
  • katsukatsu
    Posts: 53
    Thanks everyone for the feedback. I spoke with my local Bark Buster trainer recently and he's definitely a positive reinforcement kind of guy, so I think it may vary depending on the local trainer that represents the franchise.

    Right now I'm leaning toward going with private training since it is much more accommodating to our schedule (I work in another state during the week while my bf takes care of Katsu), but I was worried about the lack of socialization. I guess if I do go private trainer route, I will have to make sure Katsu's socialization needs are being met in some other way. There is a local dog trainer who organizes free group walks, but I'm not sure if I should take Katsu yet since his vaccinations aren't done.

    If someone knows of resources where I can find local puppy "meet ups" outside of enrolling in puppy obedience/kindergarten classes, please post here!
  • kwyldkwyld
    Posts: 506
    I agree, ask a million questions before you settle on the trainer you like best.

    From the people I've spoken to who have used Bark Busters in THIS particular area, they advocate using positive punishment in their training plans (throwing chains and water balloons at dogs showing reactivity to other people and dogs). I also don't agree with their stance on "dominance gestures" that they've posted on their website under training tips and "what's your leadership style". My friend had unknowingly hired them for basic training and working on separation anxiety, and the trainer agreed to help her work on the separation anxiety which is a little outside their scope of practice in my opinion. They suggested she set up a camera and correct the dog over skype when he started destroying things in her home after she left. Obviously it's not working and she's pretty frustrated because she's spent over $400 with this trainer. Just an fyi
    Post edited by kwyld at 2011-01-05 03:50:03
  • JacksMom13JacksMom13
    Posts: 133
    I really enjoyed the experience of home-schooling Jack. He's as smart as they say his breed is so after doing research online teaching him commands wasn't/isn't as hard or as painful as I thought it would be. Don't get me wrong, some things took longer to teach or correct but I think it was mostly because *we* had to change our behavior.

    For us, puppy classes would have been primarily for socialization. However, we decided against it since we had plenty of opportunities in our neighborhood as well as with our sitter to give our guy play time with other dogs and puppies and people.

    I used the site below to find a local Shiba meet up group and there are also non breed specific meet ups closer to where we live that we have found through the site.

    http://www.meetup.com/find/

    It seems to me that going to class or hiring a trainer is as much about you as it is about your puppy. I would definitely make sure you are comfortable with whatever training methodology/philosophy the trainer uses. I'm not arguing for or against anything. I just know who I am and there is no way I would have found a class helpful if it was training me to be someone I'm not under the guise of training my puppy how to SIT. If Jack had serious behavioral issues or didn't respond to us after we tried to correct something, I'd hire a private trainer rather than take him to class. So far we haven't had to do that.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4785
    Bark Busters is spendy, but I do think they offer a lifetime of consulting if you opt for the larger package deal. Back in the day when it was just starting out in my area (Seattle), they did a free seminar at my clinic, and told me my dog was being dominant over everyone because he was pawing at me to pick him up (a pomeranian). Other than that, they did have very good advice on general hurdles pet owners encounter. I still have their little distraction chain in a bean bag tool that they use to disrupt a dogs barking from across a room by tossing it on the floor (not at them!). The clinking noise really does work like clapping hands or a coin rattle to interupt the undesired behavior pattern.

    I found tremendous benefit in consulting for some private instruction with a behavorist for my behavior problem dog. This allowed us to go on to be successful in a noisier group setting in more traditional style classes, which I feel is ultimately more usefull regarding manners in public IF you find the right class. If manners at home are the main issue, start with whatever will give you and the dog the most success and then go on from there. Some dogs are so reactive or stranger phobic/neophobic, that in-home is the only option since that's where the dog will spend most of it's time.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • RorsRors
    Posts: 165
    Hey Lindsay, my brother and sister in-law used them for their two darling yappers (Mystery terrier crosses) the chain still works 3 yrs later they just have to hear it rattle a bit and they settle straight away. One I am definitely keeping in mind.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4785
    That's right, Bark Busters started in Australia didn't it?
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • MamaYokoMamaYoko
    Posts: 244
    I need some suggestions...We just adopted our shiba 2 weeks ago. She is 2. I want to do some training classes with her. I know she is kennel trained and house trained...I'm not sure what sort of training I should get her into, and where is best. Seeing that she's two and not a puppy and I have NO idea what training she has actually had, I am not sure where to start.
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1268
    How about Rally obedience? It's a fun way of doing basic obedience and Shibas normally like it because it's not so repetitive or strict.
  • notoriousscratnotoriousscrat
    Posts: 1686
    Before doing anything more advanced, I would put her through basic obedience. You can figure out what she does know with it and then teach her what she needs to know.
    http://obeytheshiba.blogspot.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/OBEYZIM
    http://packlove.com/zim
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    I agree with notoriousscrat, start with a basic obedience class. This is good for you also as you build a foundation of training techniques and games to play. Even if she excels it helps you learn more about her, build a bond, and find out what motivates her. Your relationship with her is very new, a lot changes over the first few months.

    After that you will better know what you want to do as a next step. It also gets you exposure to a trainer, who if you end up liking, can help mentor and guide your goals in the future.

    I agree that Rally Obedience may be a great goal even if it is just for classes, but it really depends on what you want long term, so just start with a good training center (preferably one that utilizes clicker training) and take their basic obedience.

    Like I told you in another thread, enjoy the journey you are on, smell the flowers, and unlike me, try not to worry as much about what flowers will grow tomorrow.

    For me, I want to take the relationship I have and escalate it to a higher bond if possible, one that will translate to fun together at events like agility, lure coursing, ect. Right now I probably will start that journey via Rally Obedience, but that has come after a chain of learning the strengths and weaknesses I need to work on with Bear based on his individual personality.

    There is always something new you can do/train, so just start with the basics as you decide where the journey will go.
  • MamaYokoMamaYoko
    Posts: 244
    That sounds like a good plan...I just don't know where to go really. Everyone seems pretty under-informed about shibas. Although, the petsmart about 20 minutes from our house has an employee who owns a shiba. I just don't know who to trust and if the trainers are legit anywhere. I've only really talked to the trainers at petsmart.
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    Starting at Petsmart is fine, that is where we started for both basic and intermediate obedience. I eventually have moved onto other trainers (actually on my third place now), but you learn a bit from all of them as you learn what you want and need help with.

    You may also want to talk to other dog owners you know (who have well behaved dogs) and see who they use for training.

    If you don't click with a trainer or don't like the classes then you know you need to seek someone else out. Just remember you are the biggest advocate for your dog, so while you should trust the trainer's expertise, it also is not the end all and if you disagree in your gut with something don't do it. Every experience is a learning experience, so take the leap of faith and build from there.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @MamaYoko,

    No offense to those that use petsmart / petco, but I find them to be a joke. Especially since they do it in the MIDDLE of the store where there are so many distractions. And most of the time the trainers are inexperience. I honestly would look around your area and see who can offer personal lessons, or classes in a seperate room. Some trainers let you drop by to see them in the middle of a class/during a lesson. I think you should feel for your trainer, instead of just signing up for a class and PRAYING you will get a good trainer.
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    @Bootz, I agree that Petsmart is not the end all of training for all the reasons you did point out, but I also learned the basics of clicker training and began to learn what I liked and didn't like in regards to seeking out future training. Sometimes when you have no basis, you have to start somewhere while seeking out the next step. Sometimes if you worry too much about where you take your first step, you never even start walking.
  • InuzooInuzoo
    Posts: 215
    Ask around your area for recommendation. I did and it lead me to a wonderful place. I highly recommend my place. I have only worked with one of the owner/trainer but they are both specialists in behavior and use positive reinforcement to promote well behaved andutual respected dog homes/relationships. Jenny, the trainer, has a way with people and dogs. I call it human training.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    Just make sure, when you're asking around, to be very specific in your questions. You're looking for positive reinforcement training or even better, clicker training. If they say they are positive reinforcement, ask more questions about technique (and better yet, go observe a class). Because positive reinforcement is popular, some old school trainers lie about it, or they claim to have a "balanced" method which means they still use aversives like leash jerks. This has happened to me--a place claimed to be positive (as in "oh, yeah we give treats") but then said they expected me to use a pinch collar or an e-collar (!) on my 4 month old Akita!

    If the trainer expects you to use a slip collar/choke collar/training collar, stay far away (even worse if they say pinch or prong collar).

    The big box stores are not ideal, but it depends on the trainer. There can be good trainers there. One of them--and I don't remember which one now--has it's own training program in clicker training so at least you know the class will not HARM your dog. The local Animal Humane (shelter) here has a great training program too, but of course they vary depending on who is in charge of training. still, it might be worth checking out.
    Lisa and Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akitas) and Leo (Kai Ken)
    From the House of the Fox Dogs blog
    Why it's Not About Dominance
    Bel's thread: the story of a puppy mill Shiba's life
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
    The gal who works at Tatonka's daycare joint also runs obedience and agility classes on the weekend -- so Tatonka knows her and sometimes makes a good demo dog for her class.

    The 3 things I like about her:
    1. Her dog and other dogs she's personally trained are EXTREMELY well trained. Their heel positions are perfect and her dogs live to please her. There's also a push-pull relationship that seems very real -- neither she nor her dog will take crap from each other. With them she uses just her voice, commands in German, and a regular leash. Just a testament to persistence and consistency.

    2. She taught me that non-treat-motivated Tatonka is excitement-motivated. He'll do things for you if you get him excited, happy, and out of his head.

    3. She's not closed to aversive methods when they're necessary, though the discussion is largely theoretical -- there isn't anyone with a pinch collar or anything of the sort I've seen in her class with me. She describes behavior corrections as traffic tickets. A $2 traffic ticket might not make you want to stop speeding at all, but a $1600 traffic ticket might make you stop driving altogether. With every type of trained behavior, the right level of feedback has to be determined for a dog. If a dog is scared of everything you might do it doesn't work. If a dog doesn't get to think for himself it doesn't work either. If a dog is in a situation where he needs your help or needs you to back him up and you don't step in to help him then he has to take some drastic measure himself, essentially being set up for failure. If a dog can't take you seriously or respect you it doesn't work either.

    I like how she navigates through the complex topic of how you communicate with your dog. It's a really good class.

    $400 buys unlimited classes for 6 months. You can attend any and every Saturday. She has 6 levels + agility + canine good citizen and there are tests you have to pass to jump to the next level (can't attend a higher level without passing test).
    Monkey!
    Post edited by tatonka at 2012-12-15 01:36:48
  • MamaYokoMamaYoko
    Posts: 244
    I just can't decide if a class is the right way to go or if I should take matters into my own hands and do it myself. I'm not sure if I want to go the Petsmart route, but I don't know of any other trainers in the La Crosse, WI area. I ultimately just want to get her to know the basic commands and how to WALK properly.
  • notoriousscratnotoriousscrat
    Posts: 1686
    @MamaYoko
    If it helps your decision at all, in a class what's really happening is they're teaching you to train your dog. Yes, you go to a class once a week but while there you are the one teaching your dog and you're expected to continue the training at home in order to really get it to work. So the real difference between a class and doing it yourself is that the class costs more and gives you more hands-on guidance.
    http://obeytheshiba.blogspot.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/OBEYZIM
    http://packlove.com/zim
  • MamaYokoMamaYoko
    Posts: 244
    @notoriousscrat Thanks. That puts things in perspective.
  • XabiXabi
    Posts: 432
    And the classes keep you off the ledge when it seems like things aren't going as you would hope. I agree that you should look around and do your investigation regarding your options. I'd check with your vet and see if (s)he has a recommendation. My original vet recommended a specific location which I was really happy with. I think you can find good trainers at the big stores, but I think it's just as easy to find one you may be iffy on.
    X & I signature smaller
  • MamaYokoMamaYoko
    Posts: 244
    Good idea. Only problem is...we are still choosing our vet as well.
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    @MamaYoko, I don't know what your dog training background is. Maybe knowing more about how many other dogs you trained would change the responses a bit.

    If you don't have much background in how training works, I would recommend at least a 6 week basic obedience course. Like @notoriousscrat said, they are teaching you to teach your dog, they can watch your techniques and recommend techniques that work. They in essence help you avoid common training errors because they can interactively see/watch for those pitfalls during the training sessions. In all cases, the majority of training will always occur at home outside of the structured class, unless you chose a boot camp/away camp training option instead (I have a whole other opinion on that option, but since you don't seem to be considering that I won't go into that opinion).

    I agree Petsmart can be hit or miss in regards to the quality of the trainer. It definitely is also highly distracting environment and the trainer was often in my mind unfocused due to other customers. I do not recommend it for long-term training needs, but again sometimes I think people have to start somewhere. I would be very surprised if Petsmart would allow anything extreme (like a Ceasar M) type training to occur, so while not perfect training, I also don't think you are at high risk of being led astray too far either. We started there and feel we got what we needed out of the first 6 week class, but we did move on as we networked more and found other options.

    Also as @Xabi said, sometimes you need that relationship to a trainer who is more experienced with dogs and various methods, whether Shiba specific or not, to help talk you off ledges of frustration. Not every dog will respond to training exactly the same, professionals have experience to have a wealth of tricks available.

    In regards to a vet, if your Petsmart has Banfield, I would say stay away from that vet option! They were fine for my non-outdoor house cats, but boy left a bad taste in my mouth handling Bear early on. I think they too often are profit motivated and not great advocates of animals and options available. So while I think Petsmart is fine for a basic 6 week obedience just to get you started I do not in anyway endorse their relationship with Banfield.
  • MamaYokoMamaYoko
    Posts: 244
    Great to know. I do not play to affiliate with them for veterinary reasons for sure. I definitely will need someone guiding me. My husband has trained a dog. I have not.
  • ShibaLoveShibaLove
    Posts: 554
    Does anyone know of a good place to find free online obedience training classes or a compilation of videos. I want to work on training Ember (just got her - she is 7 months) and have been through 3 courses (beginner, intermediate, CGC) with Nikko. We go to the dog park almost every day for socialization so I was hoping to do this myself but I really need structure.

    So far I got a weekly schedule for Obedience I from a local training facility and am trying to find videos that correspond to the topics but it would be great if there was a good resource that had everything together already. I am starting to think going to a class would be easier but I really think that is me just being lazy.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4785
    The best thing would be to get the dog out and about and socialized, so you should absolutely attend classes in a public place with your puppy, especially if you still need the structure. Many breeders actually require proof of some type of community class. It is very important to get them out and broaden their horizons as much as possible while they are young. You have years to work on tricks and household manners, but the socialization is super important in the first year.

    Ian Dunbar site is good, and you can rent videos from Bow wow flix, but it isn't as good a substitute for attending a weekly class outside the comfort zone, imo.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
    Post edited by lindsayt at 2013-04-08 16:59:11
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8534
    @ShibaLove - I completely agree with @lindsayt. Getting your pup to classes is incredibly important. Not just from a training aspect, but from a socialization aspect as well. No matter how much you take your pups to the dog park, they are going to need socialization in other venues as well. Remember, dogs do not generalize well so the socialization needs to happen in as many places as possible.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    @ShibaLove - Did she pass her CGC test or just take the CGC class?

    IMO just doing training at home is not enough, not even in regards to the socialization. I know you stated she is 7 months, so probably won't be eligible for "puppy" classes where there is structured socialization to other dogs, but like @lindsayt and @sunyata stated, dogs do not generalize well. This means not only socialization, but working on training needs to happen a lot of different places and environments. Additionally, classes help give you ideas and assistance when you begin to move up the training pyramid to add complexity (distance, duration, distraction, ect).

    Post edited by redcattoo at 2013-04-09 12:55:16
  • ShibaLoveShibaLove
    Posts: 554
    @redcattoo Ember did not take the CGC test, that was Nikko. I just got Ember as a rescue and she has not been to any formal training with me.

    Thanks for the advice everyone! I know that I could train her at home and get her to do the commands so I had been struggling whether it was worth it to go to a facility. I understand what you all are saying about the socialization and listening with different distractions. I will check out what classes are being offered in the near future. Hopefully something not 45 minutes away like Nikko's CGC class!
  • RomayRomay
    Posts: 26
    http://learn.canineconfidence.com/yel-dinos/

    Has anyone from the forum ever taken this online course? Is it worth doing? Do you agree with it's material?
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1587
    Just my personal opinion but I'd rather shell out the $165 for sessions with a actual trainer/behaviourist. I think you would get more out of it...a computer can't critique your efforts and help you improve your methods.





    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
  • AntoinetteAntoinette
    Posts: 887
    When I took Quake to the vet on Saturday he was very anxious and did not have a good experience. To begin with they wanted me to muzzle him from the get go. I tried putting on the muzzle and he did let me but they did not have the muzzle adjusted properly so I could not attach it. Things went downhill from there. He would not let me put the muzzle on after that. This is the first time he has been that upset. I really do not blame him for being upset quite frankly. The vet suggested a behaviorist/trainer. I believe his behavior is fear based. I have read on this forum that you cannot train away fear based behavior. I really want to set him up for success so I am willing to look into the positive reinforcement training. I know it's my responsibility to help him feel secure and safe in any environment. I welcome any suggestions. Thanks.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Antoinette

    Don't think this is the right thread for your situation. I remember there is a thread regarding vet visit/muzzles. @curlytails desensitize her shiba to the muzzle by putting peanut butter toward the end for him to lick.

    Edit: @Romay I agree with Kobe. Better to take actual classes so you can get feedback on your methods. Online would only be for refreshers for those already confident in their training methods
    Post edited by Bootz at 2014-12-09 15:44:35
  • BanjoTheBetaDogBanjoTheBetaDog
    Posts: 921
    to play devils' advocate... I am an idiot and I figured out how to train a dog off the internet.

  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @BanjoTheBetaDog

    Not to burst your bubble but you got it wrong. Your shiba has you trained... LOL
  • AntoinetteAntoinette
    Posts: 887
    @Bootz-I will do a search for that thread. However, it's more than the thing about the muzzle. I would like to help Quake be less anxious during vet visits. I will continue to search for threads on this forum. Thanks.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    My thoughts on courses like the one listed above is that they are great for experienced trainers who want to learn a bit more on technique, and may not have good positive reinforcement trainers in their area. (It looks like it is probably a good class). However, they're useless for what a lot of training classes are good for, which is dog socialization and working a dog under distractions, because all the training is at home.

    So if you think of it as a class for YOU, and that's what you need, then it might be a good investment (I've thought of doing some classes like this myself--not the same one, but others from well known trainers). But it sounds, even from reading it, that the focus of the class is on the handler, so it's a matter of what you need. (I thought what was listed looked like it would be solid info, though). If you do take it, keep us posted--it certainly looks interesting!
    Lisa and Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akitas) and Leo (Kai Ken)
    From the House of the Fox Dogs blog
    Why it's Not About Dominance
    Bel's thread: the story of a puppy mill Shiba's life
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
    About 10 years ago, I volunteered to be a puppy raiser for Guiding Eyes for the Blind and not only was it a great way to donate my time, it showed me how to use positive training techniques which have proven to be invaluable.

    The only downfall is that you do get attached to the dog and have to give it back so that it can become a guide dog after about a year.

    I've never taken Kira to training classes but never felt that it was necessary to do so because I felt that I was able to incorporate everything I'd learned in order to properly train her.
    Cynthia, Proudly owned by Kira
    imageimage
    Kira the Cream Shiba Inu 吉良 - Facebook Page
    Follow Kira on Instagram! Kira_the_cream_shiba_inu
    Kira's Life Story & Photo Thread - Chronicles of Kira

    “Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.”
  • CroakedjCroakedj
    Posts: 37
    I realize this thread has been going on for awhile. I read a lot before I got Max (he's now 9 weeks). Both the "Ceasar" type schooling and the new school positive trainers. I'm all about positive training, except in very specific contexts, like when he's mouthy and bites too much. I also have trained horses, so the "bite back" (which is not really and bite at all) can be useful just to stop that. Max always responds to this if I can't redirect his chewing which is always my first line method. At any rate, I really like Zac George on YouTube. Some say he's sloppy, but Max is doing outstanding using this positive method. He's 100% potty trained, knows not to bolt out the front door, acted like a champ when he got his nailed clipped, and has mastered "leave it alone." (Except for the typical puppy chewing). Maybe I was expecting a devil dog and have been compensating, or maybe he's just easier than most to train? I was prepared for the worst, and this little guy has just been a joy so far. I do put in about an hour a day in for training. Just incidental sessions that last 15-20 minutes throughout the day. Anyone else have an easy to train Shiba? Did I just get lucky? I've never trained a new pup before, so maybe the YouTube videos are just that good. Thoughts?
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
    You've only had him for a couple weeks, don't count your chickens before they hatch.

    You're Shiba is a puppy and in the learning phase, as he gets older and more mature he will begin thinking for himself and all that angelic puppy behavior could fly out the window.

    Shibas respond BEST to positive training, that isn't to say that they can't be trained another way but in the long run, if you want a good relationship with trust and respect then that's honestly the best and most ideal way to acquire it.
    Cynthia, Proudly owned by Kira
    imageimage
    Kira the Cream Shiba Inu 吉良 - Facebook Page
    Follow Kira on Instagram! Kira_the_cream_shiba_inu
    Kira's Life Story & Photo Thread - Chronicles of Kira

    “Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.”
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8534
    Croakedj said:

    I read a lot before I got Max (he's now 9 weeks).

    I also have trained horses, so the "bite back" (which is not really and bite at all) can be useful just to stop that.

    He's 100% potty trained, knows not to bolt out the front door, acted like a champ when he got his nailed clipped, and has mastered "leave it alone."



    Oh dear... You are going to have a VERY fun few weeks ahead of you (if not months).

    Your puppy is a BABY.

    Please do not "bite back" when he gets nippy. That is not teaching him anything except to be afraid of you.

    He is also not 100% potty trained. He is a BABY. A nine week old puppy is NEVER completely potty trained. If he is not having accidents, that is excellent timing on your part and keep it up.

    Also, do not get complacent about the puppy not door bolting. He is a BABY. He wants to stick close to what he knows. As he matures, he will start to wander and push boundaries. Be prepared for this and use positive reinforcement training. Please do not just rely on youtube videos for training. Take him to a puppy kindergarten class or basic obedience class (one that uses positive reinforcement and not aversive methods).
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
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