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Thinking about a 2ND Shiba... Am I crazy?
  • mattzmattz
    Posts: 418
    So, we've been discussing and thinking a lot lately about getting a second shiba. Our Etsuko (Female) seems (to me) to be getting bored lately... She has been acting out a little more, chewing here and there (nothing major). And sometimes I can see it in her eyes, PLAY WITH ME PLAY WITH ME... HEY, WONT YOU PLAY WITH ME??? My girlfriend and I don't seem to be enough for her... I walk her 2-3 miles per day, play with her non stop and am CONSTANTLY side by side with her. The way I understand it, she wants to be near me 24/7 (which I would love TOO), but it's not humanely possible. I've read A LOT and heard A LOT of stories from people about their dogs, and all in all it seems that having 2 pups really helped out and made both dogs happier.

    I am open to ANY and ALL comments/suggestions/stories... HIT ME!

    Oh, here's the little guy I'm looking into:
    http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/17130874
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    I love having two dogs, though they can definitely be a handful at times. Kratos now plays more than he ever has before and having Mitsu has helped him shed the pounds that he put on while on an awful science diet (though I'm sure switching him to raw had a lot to do with it as well), and I don't know where I would have been without him during Mitsu's puppyhood. I walked Mitsu, took her to parks, played with her constantly, and STILL she had energy, but Kratos was always there to help out when it came to entertaining her. They get along wonderfully (though they do something bicker a little, as siblings tend to do!). Jasper is cute - you should see if you can arrange a visit WITH Etsuko to see how the two will get along.

    Also - I'm in Texas too! But Austin for now, and I'll be moving to Houston in a few months.
  • Kuro_KaiKuro_Kai
    Posts: 543
    Depends. We thought hard about getting a 2nd shiba but decided not to at this time. Our decision was because of the amount of money needed at the puppy stage with training, vet visits, upcoming neutering and such. Sometime next year we will prolly do so.

    But the question I'd ask is can you give enough attention to two shibas? Having a buddy might be good. But two bored shibas means they have a partner in crime so quadruple the potential mayhem.
  • RorsRors
    Posts: 165
    Hi, I dont even have one Shiba yet. But having two dogs close in age only six months apart We personally are trying to space out the age gap,
    Akira was a real brat for 6 months until we got our girl Kiyo, he would get my cymbidium orchids off a 4ft bench and chew the bulbs for fun.Kiyo was definitely a blessing, he calmed right down - I think the poor fellow was bored.

    But now that they are much older I think we left getting a 3rd dog a little to late, Akira is probably not going to get to see April 2011 and Kiyo is quite needy with regards to needing company and we are afraid she wont have or bond with a new puppy before this happens, making her vunerable to pining and a premature...

    Shibas I am sure, are a hurricane when they get together. A funny cute hurricane.
  • INU RYUUINU RYUU
    Posts: 1507
  • mattzmattz
    Posts: 418
    @Kuro_Kai - Great points concerning double shiba boredom=quadruple shiba mayhem!

    Yes, the idea of TWO shibas is just TOO GREAT! I love the idea of the companionship they'll have when I'm not around, but also am concerned about boredom... I will definitely look into arranging a meet-up of the two dogs, just to see how they get along. Also, Etsuko was initially raised with 3 other labradores, which leads me more to believe that she is missing some of that companionship. And beforehand when she was being raised with these other 3 dogs, she was an outside dog and now that she is an inside pup and always leashed when we're outside (outside of our fence), I feel I've stolen her freedom that she once acquired.

    Though I am concerned of having two bored shibas doesn't mean I'm scarred or unwilling. Like I said, Etsuko's boredom now is only coming to light in her acting out of little things. Chewed up some socks or underwear, which are things we CAN control and have since re-managed in the household. Otherwise, she hasn't had one problem since our latest shiba-proofing of the house. The things I'm most concerned about are, dominance issues (Etsuko is VERY territorial), training schedules and yes, double mayhem from two shibas!

    Any other input? Suggestions??

    THANKS YOU GUYS!
  • mattzmattz
    Posts: 418
    Also, I feel that I am more than adequately keeping up with Etsuko. Every morning, we walk one mile. On my lunch, one mile. And when I get home I either walk her 1-2 miles or we run one mile together... Otherwise and in between we are playing, cuddling, petting and training... I still get the feeling from her that something is missing.
  • Two dogs is ten times the work, but a hundred times the reward. As long as they get along it's great. Katsu and Tanuki are like Captain and Coke, they just go together.
  • I have 2 Shibas and got my second one when Bear was just over a year old. We got a female that was a year and a half old. It did and does help with the high energy of the dogs. They chase each other in our back yard and play fight all the time. We've had the second one now 3 months but seems like shes(Foxy) been a part of our family for a lot longer.
    Bear did pretty well except where food was concerned. We had to feed them in separate rooms and still do although we might not really have to. Giving treats became a thing of the past for a while until they got used to taking turns. Bear was so used to everything being his that he thought the toys that came with Foxy were his too. Foxy our second Shiba was timid and shy but Bear who is like a bull in a china shop has gotten her out of her shell. It has been a great fit for both dogs. We met before hand to see how they would react to each other. Was a little different when the dog is staying in "their space" and the first weekend I wondered if we had done the right thing. But it all got better and now most times they are best buds!
  • maxwellsmaxwells
    Posts: 347
  • mattzmattz
    Posts: 418
    Great to hear from you guys! These last few entries are the EXACT reason why I would want a second shiba!

    Another reason, I just realized, is that Etsuko is SUPER SUPER SUUUUUUUPPPPPPEEEERRRRRRR timid around people she doesn't know. Now I'm not sure, but I'm going to assume that Jasper, being in a shelter and all, is used to people interacting with him quite frequently. So, hopefully he's like a "bull in a china shop" and can crack Etsuko out of her WHO ARE YOU WHY ARE YOU IN MY HOME BARK BARK WHY ARE YOU APPROACHING ME WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING MY MASTER phase... I'd really like for her to be a little more outgoing and I think Jasper might help!
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8589
  • maxwellsmaxwells
    Posts: 347
  • Here the two are on the bed and together in the recliner.
    Post edited by velvetkat at 2010-12-21 20:57:05
  • mattzmattz
    Posts: 418
    Everyone, thanks again for your comments!

    Yes, though my first gut instinct is to drive to the shelter and pick up Jasper NOW, I am resisting. For a number of reasons, I'm going to throw the idea around in my head for AT LEAST a few weeks. PROS, CONS, etc, etc... In this time I'm going to go meet with Jasper first, then for a second visit with Etsuko... and if all goes as planned and I am able to rescue Jasper, I will bring his lil curly tail home!!

    OF COURSE, I am only wanting a second shiba for companionship with Etsuko when I'm not around, in addition to another "child" in my life, as Etsuko is practically my daughter. It sounds like a very fun, exciting and rewarding plan... But with all plans, there must be much preparation.

    ADDITIONAL COMMENTS STILL WELCOME!

    Any ideas/advice on dominance issues? Training schedules? Walking/running advice for TWO shibas?!?

    THANKS!
  • Bear was very dominant towards my sons male boxer(he is so mellow) so we thought we might have a problem with getting another dog. Thats one reason we chose a female. We were actually very pleasantly surprised as Foxy holds her own against him and I'm not really sure who is running the show. I'm thinking the female is but in a sneaky way! my dogs don't go on walks as we have a huge yard for them to play. When we take them to the pet store they seems to do fine walking basically together.
  • ncieloncielo
    Posts: 267
  • Kuro_KaiKuro_Kai
    Posts: 543
    We gave it some very strong consideration as I said. With the rejections coming in about Yuen adopting a cat, she did one night say "FVCK IT! Find another Shiba!" (she's a very dangerous lady when she's frustrated, has a deck of credit cards and can buy another just from her tips in a week). I talked her out of it, saying we should at least get Kai thru Puppy Intermediate and CGC training first so we know what to do with the 2nd.

    I do think a 2nd dog that Kai saw on a regular basis might calm down his "Playplayplay" mode a bit. Kai doesn't really suffer from boredom with me, though he's picking on Yuen a bit wanting more of her attention. What he wants is another dog to play with.
  • jujeejujee
    Posts: 882
  • bobc33bobc33
    Posts: 287
    Post edited by bobc33 at 2010-12-22 02:57:46
  • bobc33bobc33
    Posts: 287
    Post edited by bobc33 at 2010-12-22 03:10:42
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    We got lucky when we got my Mom's dogs Juneau and Sasha. They were two of nine pups from a litter of Border Collie/Lab mixes (BYB, before we knew they were bad) and they get along great. Anything you train one to do the other will pick up. They LOVE people but will bark at strangers until you tell them to stop. They are awesome dogs. You can handle both at the same time very easily and they will do anything you want them to, even if they don't want to do it.
    Conker on the other hand is two handfuls on his own. If only I was able to go to Oregon (I live in Missouri) with him and spend a month there with Juneau and Sasha maybe he'd be a little better than he is now.
    As far as getting another Shiba? Definitely. But not until Conker is better with strangers and out of the puppy stages. And when I can afford two dogs at once. I wouldn't consider another dog, especially a puppy, until Conker is able to give good vibes to the new addition instead of STRANGERS=BAD! like he is now.
  • We just added another puppy to the household and they love each other (well I think Violet adores Bear and he mostly likes her). We actually went to pick him up with her in tow and walked them both around the house leashed among other things and did a one week trial run before permanently bringing him home. It is a lot more work but totally worth it if you find a compatible pup.

    Kuro Kai, have you thought about approaching a shiba rescue for maybe an older shiba? Bear is actually Violet's older brother so their similar base temperament made things easier for us, but I think a lot of your concerns with training and the like could possibly be addressed by adopting an older pup who is already trained. Violet's behavior in a few areas improved when we got Bear since he is so well behaved. It's a thought and a lot of the breed specific rescues need good homes now. NYC shiba rescue is not that far from you.

    Anyway good luck to all with their research on acquiring a second puppy.
  • I'd love another Shiba! Need my own place first though! :)
  • LaRen616LaRen616
    Posts: 221
    I personally like the idea of having a 2-4 year age difference. That way your current dog is mature and well trained before bringing in another puppy.

    You also have to think about when they are in their senior years. If you have 2 dogs very close in age you could lose them within months of each other :(

    I have a GSD that will be turning 2 years old in March and in 2 years I will be getting another GSD puppy, so my current GSD will be 4 years old when I bring in the puppy.Lauren

    Sinister ~ 5.5 yr old black male GSD 3.11.09
    Draven ~ 16 month old male Dalmatian 6.20.13

    Cats: Chaos, Mayhem, Monster, Wicked
    Post edited by LaRen616 at 2010-12-22 13:07:58
  • JennyBJennyB
    Posts: 53
    Our first shiba Suzaku was our second dog, which we got to be a playmate for our Eskie Blitz. Blitz was a great only-dog and we were giving him lots and lots of walks to burn off energy, but he loved and needed a puppy playdate more than anything, and we were having a problem with him in the evenings wanting to doggy-wrestle with us (play bow, play snapping, putting his neck in my daughter's face to encourage her to bite him, etc -- a lot of activities I didn't want to encourage him to do with humans). The very first day, Suzaku latched onto Blitz's neck, whirlwinds of vicious fun began, and Blitz's need for doggy play is sated. He wrestles with Suzaku and cuddles with the humans. So on that front, it was totally worth it.

    However, Blitz is also an anxious dog with a lot of behaviours similar to Etsuko's, and Suzaku is bold and brave and trusting of all, but in our experience, has done absolutely nothing to draw out Blitz from his anxious/highly protective stance, and has at times even escalated the problems. So don't get a 2nd dog to try to change the personality of the 1st. (Ironically, my two children are an exact parallel to our dogs in personalities, even down to the younger's assertiveness is sometimes counter-productive to the older's anxiety.)

    I say Go For It! It is like getting a 2nd child -- work/trouble increases exponentially, the way you treat them and train them will have to shift, and sometimes the 1st may give you a look of "Why couldn't I be an only dog?" but the bond they will form will be awesome and the amount of joy you get out of your pets will increase exponentially as well.
  • Yes ....I mean No (LOL).

    Really look into the whys and what fors. Although she may want to interact with you more it does not necessarily mean she wants to interact with other dogs more. You will need to test this out and see if you can find a compatible personality match. Keep in mind with two what one does not think of the other will. Often you will find two will pester you rather than just one if you don't up the stimuli or get down to the nitty gritty on the pesty behavior.

    JennyB has a valid point "don't get a 2nd dog to try to change the personality of the 1st. (Ironically, my two children are an exact parallel to our dogs in personalities, even down to the younger's assertiveness is sometimes counter-productive to the older's anxiety.)"

    Good luck the pup in that link is really distinct...... talk with the rescue org and see what they can do to arrange a meeting or give more info to help you out.
    Snf
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    I am bumping this thread to get some current thoughts and advice.

    Recently in South Florida a 3.5 month old puppy has become a courtesy listing of the Florida Shiba Rescue group.

    Now my husband and I have off and on discussed for the last 3-4 months about if/when we would add a 2nd Shiba to our household and if/when we did it would we use a rescue or a reputable breeder (told my husband no mills or BYB's this time now that I am more educated) and if/when we did it would we be seeking a puppy to train through early stages or a more settled adult that had a more known personality.

    For the most part we believed that we wanted a young dog that we could shape/train and that we wanted to consider adding him between now and when Bear is 2 years old so there was some age gap but not a big age gap. So this 3.5 month old puppy that has popped up fits into what we were already thinking was the way we would go with a 2nd Shiba.

    We love Bear and give him as much attention as our energy and time allow, but we also believe a 2nd Shiba could help rather than hinder this and maybe even teach Bear some calmness as they grow together and realize they can't play 24/7 (depending on the personality of the added Shiba).

    I showed my husband on FB last night the puppy that is in the SIRF system and off and started the discussion with him on if now is the right time and could this be the right puppy for us to consider. He fully supported at least moving ahead with seeing if we can arrange to meet the puppy and move forward with seeing if the puppy could be a good addition to our family. So today I have posted, emailed, and reached out at least to put our names out there that we are considering looking at possibly adopting if it works out to everyone's best interest.

    In the meantime, I am seeking this forum's thoughts, advice, and words of caution as we enter into this process.

    For those who don't know about us, we are a family of 6 -- two humans, one who works (me) one who doesn't (my husband), 3 cats (one 16 yrs old, two 4.5 yrs old), and one 13 month old Shiba, Bear. We live in a good size home in a golf course community and believe in being active with our animals. In Bear's case training has always been a priority and we are working on agility, CGC, and Rally this year with him. I have learned a lot about training methods and support the positive techniques like clicker training and Susan G's crate game methods. Overall, Bear has been pretty good, our only challenge remains a very high play/prey drive that makes recall and focus go out the window quickly. We have seen some improvements in impulse control and believe we can build the bond we need in the future to eventually trust him in off leash activities like agility and maybe lure coursing.

    I have learned a lot from having Bear and from this forum, so I very much respect all the thoughts, advice, and words of caution from members here to assure that we are not entering into this without proper thought.

    Because this puppy is 3.5 months old we know this process probably will go quick, but I need to be sure that I don't let it go too quick either as I know there are lots of things I should be thinking of.

    Thanks for all your feedback that I hope is coming.
  • KenzoLAKenzoLA
    Posts: 55
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    @KenzoLA ... I haven't decided if the risk of Bear 2x scares me or excites me. I do believe my husband and I think having a companion for Bear would be good. I do a hour long (3-4 mile) walk almost every morning with scattered runs in it, we do a 30 minute evening walk and 15 minutes play/training session on the golf course after, we play an hour or so together inside after dinner, and Bear still wants more.
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8589
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @redcattoo,

    If i remember correctly, you are the bread winner of the family that works long days. I would honestly say the majority of the decision would depend on your stay at home husband. Is he willing to take on this heavy load? Adding a second shiba will be extra work.

    You have to keep in mind that the two dogs will not always play together and tire each other out. Worst case scenario BOTH shibas will go up to you and expect play, instead of playing with each other. Your walks will definitely be longer because you have to juggle two shibas. Training will be AT Least double if not triple the time since you have to have individual training ALONG with side by side training.

    Lastly, you have only recently solved the soft poo problem with Bear. Why not dedicate what time you have to improving his recall so you can move on to agility and other offleash activities? Wait until Bear is 2 years old like @Rikka is doing. Just to see if Bear will calm down and mature, which will resolve one of the reasons why you want to add a second shiba. And if by then you still want to add the second shiba...Bear may have calmed down and may have developed a good recall...then he will be a good role model for the new addition.
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    @sunyata, thanks for your thoughts. I wasn't sure if earlier was better to assure that during Bear's final growth phase from 13 months to 2 years we could work on resource issues having two living together. I really feel though that Bear will easily accept another dog because he gets frustrated when he wants to play and the cats avoid it. Bear has always done great at wanting to play with other dogs, it actually is part of his high play/prey drive to want to run with other dogs ... so that being said it is probably important any 2nd dog is up to and ready for a high level play ... so that being said am I ready for 2 dogs doing the Shiba 500 inside our house?

    I am not sure I will ever know if my husband and I are ready for another addition, because there is so much that can vary that until we do it. That though is why I appreciate hearing everyone's feedback and having the discussions as it makes sure I am thinking through why we are even considering it.
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    @curlytails, thanks for recognizing how much I do devote to my Shiba and assuring he gets the proper attention, love, activity, and stimulation. Some days though I feel I am not enough for him, so question if I have enough for two.

    What signs indicate Bear is mature enough? At what age is it harder to overcome resource guarding because the dog has had the space to himself for too long?

    I have met with SIRF via a dog event at a local park awhile back and at a recent Shiba Inu meet-up group, so they are preliminary familiar already with me, my husband, and Bear. We do believe this Saturday we will have opportunity to see and meet the pup at another dog event. My only concern with that is it will be a busy hectic type environment and not ideal for Bear (over stimulation) to focus on meeting the pup.

    It is just so rare that a 3.5 month old pup finds itself in the rescue system and my husband and I do believe we want our 2nd dog to be young so we can train and shape his future personality.
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    Okay, because members here have referred to it and a good friend on FB is referring to it .... at what point is your current dog a well-trained dog?

    What I mean is what is the standard? Is it passing CGC or at least being 90% sure your dog could? Is it passing a higher level? Is it elevate higher? Or is it lower?

    Is it being a good house dog or if the dog is being trained for higher (ie sports) does it have to be a higher standard than just what a normal pet owner would possibly set?

    What is well-trained standard as I believe it varies based on your goals, but when referencing it as a point of when to add a 2nd dog what is that standard?
  • We are thinking the same thing... We almost rescued a little 6 month old cream shiba but that plan ended up not working out. We have a couple contenders in the other dog department. We would be interested in a Doberman or I was thinking of flying out to Japan and picking up a Kai, Ainu, Kishu or my favorite Shikoku from there. I have some good friends who live in Kyoto and could help us in the process. I thought it would be a very cool story to go along the addition to the family.
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8589
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    @sunyata, it does help to hear about how to form the concept of what reliably trained means and to think of the impact of adding a 2nd dog, especially a developing pup if the first dog is not yet fully reliably trained. I appreciate the thoughts and insights everyone provides because it helps me think through the decision.

    I give Bear 90% recall in the house, 70-80% recall (no fenced yard) at a dog park, and 20-30% recall off leash if highly excited. I give him probably 80-90% on the other commands you noted, but I chalk that up to him just being a Shiba who possibly will never decide to be 100% as I am 100% certain he knows the request. In public on leash he has always surprised us with good behavior, but can be challenged to pull on leash if another dog is nearby and he has never been good at greeting people if they want to touch him. Right now he is great with other dogs and shows a more submissive puppish desire to play and avoid conflict (would hate to see this shift and change).

    Our next step is to even meet the puppy and make a personality assessment of the puppy, then also see how both Bear and him interact. We would do this before finalizing any commitment at a fur-ever home.

    It does seem though that in some ways it is not a bad idea if it doesn't work out and we have to wait for another opportunity in the future. I do believe though this is a great journey and if not now helps me for the future when we do add a 2nd Shiba, which I am fairly confident we will do now even if this one isn't the one.
  • RyanRyan
    Posts: 293
  • RyanRyan
    Posts: 293
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Ryan, I know what you mean about the bed thing! Jackie (even though shes not a shiba) does the Jackie 500 and also HAS to pounce/jump on the bed. I've noticed Bootz matured and no longer does the shiba 500. I also walk/sprint with them on hills to tire them out, because people say its good for their joints (in moderation).

    I want a 2nd shiba/third furbaby but...bf says no :( Since he wants to have a kid of our own within the next 1-2 years. So for now I am planning on babysitting Tatonka's or KumaDUDE's shiba to practice for a 3rd. It was a breeze with Tatonka.

    Whats stopping you from getting a 3rd? ;)
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Rikka, LOL. I know but what can I do?!! :( Bf will be very heartbroken when the time comes for Bootz and Jackie. I doubt he can handle a new addition then. So might as well get the human baby now!

    @Tatonka, Hahaha! Only difference between children and furbabies? Children can talk back :(

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