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Want to learn more about canine behavior and training?
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    Post edited by sandrat888 at 2012-04-09 10:41:11
  • sunyatasunyata
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  • sandrat888sandrat888
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  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    That is a cool rant

    ... made me sad though because it hit home with some things

    A neighbor who has a young doberman pincher didn't do any training with it early on. It is now something like 15 months old. They sent it to a 3 week boot camp (not even a training that they interacted and learned from) for training. It pulls on her during walks and it is become heavy enough as it grew that the woman can't really control it if it becomes excited during a walk (ie by passing a dog or person).

    Just yesterday I was saddened to see they have started using a pronged collar. I think she could see the disapproval in my eye during our brief passing conversation and heard my doubt when I said did your trainer really recommend needing that?

    Told my husband I will always now avoid her as much as I can when walking because I want no part of the dog getting a pronged collar correction for becoming distracted, especially since it has never seemed to be an aggressive excitement but a playful excitement.

    She is a nice lady, but I don't know her well enough to preach to her my thoughts on this, so now I am saddened by the future of this dog and how a nice lady has gone down what I feel is a real bad path

    .... sorry, had to share after reading the rant stirred my sadness over having seen that yesterday even though not Shiba related, because I so disagree with fear, physical punishment, dominance as a training method for any lazy dog owner who doesn't want to invest the time to learn how to use positive methods.
    Post edited by redcattoo at 2012-11-15 15:26:07
  • InoushiInoushi
    Posts: 555
    @redcattoo, I will say not everyone who uses prongs does it because of that reason. My rottweiler has excellent off leash recall, and is very well mannered. Yet I live in the city, and people are extremely fearful (or looking for a lawsuit). She wears her prong more for keeping them at ease than anything else. Living in a bad neighborhood, its also important that I have complete control over her when someone high on drugs does something stupid. It doesn't mean she isn't trained, but when a dog that powerful reacts, sometimes voice commands don't cut it. Especially with a breed that takes guarding very seriously.

    Even at 10, when something rankles her, I can't stop her with a buckle collar (she is very good at getting out of collars, including martingales). I really think its unfair to make broad sweeping generalizations in these situations. I know of people with serious disabilities, that need a prong to stop their dog when say something like a cat passes by that excite most dogs, but is dangerous due to their physical limitations.

    Though to be fair, her prong is not sharp or painful, I tried it on my own neck so I know it doesn't really hurt her. Rottweiler's and most mastiffs have enough loose skin that I highly doubt it even phases them. She still pulls me when she really wants to, but at least I know she won't do her favorite trick of slipping out of collars.

    Ofcourse I don't think most dogs need it, I think it depends on their size, if you live in a city vs rural setting, and ofcourse any medical conditions the owner has.
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    @Inoushi, I know everyone makes their own decisions, but when I see an owner who has told me they have never taken their dog to training and then sends it away to a boot camp for training when they finally realize they don't know how to control it on walks in a very quiet community this saddens me. Training is an every day process for a dog owner that they must learn to engage in, only they are waiting for someone else to do it for them and this is never going to resolve any issues.

    Then because they didn't bond and do early training, they have found once it became 80+ lbs that getting it not to pull excitedly on the leash just passing another person or dog across a quiet street is a problem, so now they feel they have to turn to a prong collar, that saddens me more.

    Had I known this person had used a lot of training early on and wanted to be involved in training and learning positive training techniques maybe (and I say only maybe) my conclusion would be a little different, but I know they have not been active in training this dog and this becomes their solution due to probably misguidance in trusting the wrong trainer and delaying the training process.

    I will do what I can to be nowhere near them when walking because with every playful pull of their dog towards me and Bear all I could see was those prongs digging deeper into the dogs neck as it expressed its desire to come across the street. We were stopped for 2 or 3 minutes talking from opposite sides of the quiet road before I just had to move on because I couldn't stand to see it anymore.
    Post edited by redcattoo at 2012-11-16 17:30:48
  • Post edited by sandrat888 at 2013-01-15 15:37:51
  • KimuraKimura
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  • BitiBeaBitiBea
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  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    I wasn't sure exactly what thread this article I saw via a FB post would fit into.

    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/9676/want-to-learn-more-about-canine-behavior-and-training#Item_9

    I am putting it here because I thought it fit into learning more about behavior and training as it discusses how dogs know when communication is intended for them.
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    I thought I would post another article I just came across today that I thought interesting. It has to do with positive training and the concept of what reward(s) are effective.

    I know I have always believed it can depend on what motivates the dog, I know the study discussed is only a very small sample and I know the activities trained and variety of rewards was limited, even so I thought it an interesting article for thought.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201307/do-dogs-learn-faster-food-other-types-rewards
  • sandrat888sandrat888
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  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • sandrat888sandrat888
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  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
  • Here's some great info by Dr. McMillan on Health and Treatment of Mill dogs, or for any adopted dog.



    Snf
    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2013-10-16 15:47:19
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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