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PTPA (Potty Training Pet Apartment)
  • BruceBillisBruceBillis
    Posts: 100
    Hey All,

    I know there are treads about potty training, but I did not see any specific to this training tool/technique, so I hope it's ok that I start this thread.

    Anyhow, I wanted to see;
    1. if anyone in the forum has any personal experience with the PTPA.
    2. if there are any trainers/behaviorists who can state their opinion on the product and it's method.
    3. what your opinions are on the value/cost relationship on the product.

    I found it doing some searching online and it seems to have positive reviews. Below are links to the youtube video advertisement and the company's website.



    http://modernpuppies.com/

    Right now my only reservation is the cost. I've already purchased a normal crate for my Shiba (Bruce), so I'm having a bit of difficulty justifying the additional expense (appx. $200) for basically just a center divider with a hole in it.

    I feel inclined to just buy a divider and cut a hole in it, but their website says that the product won't work properly without using their training technique, which is explained in a DVD included with their crates.
    Bruce Billis | Red-Sesame Shiba Inu | DOB: 11/12/2011 | Southern California - Irvine
  • koyukikoyuki
    Posts: 1244
    What a waste of money ! They are ripping anybody off that buys it. Why train a puppy to relieve itself inside your home? And would you want to sleep next to your toilet? Why spend your effort and time training your puppy to go to the toilet on that pad thing when its fairly easy with shibas in particular to teach them to go to the toilet outside? Save your money mate,i wouldnt spend $200 on something like that.
    Koyuki - red female
    Takeo- cream male
    Kenji- black and tan male
    Suma- sesame female
    Haruki-brindle Japanese Akita Inu
  • I pretty much agree with koyuki. Although I would like to add that if you pad train your dog and intend to ever have it go outside, then you'll just have to retrain later. Also, some members who have tried to pad train have had some trouble with their dogs resisting, especially when the pad was in the crate. One member I can think of by name was Ponta.
  • Stef777Stef777
    Posts: 246
    Why would they make the potty part so big compared to the side the dog is supposed to lay???? I would not buy this product. Save your money!!
  • chirpy81chirpy81
    Posts: 45
    To be honest, it was a waste of money. I personally have bought this item and Neo NEVER used the training pad part of the cage. When I got him as a puppy, he would sleep in the smaller side of it, but a couple of months later he'd sleep in the bigger area and try to move the pad away, or tear it up. He still loves the cage, don't get me wrong, but for $200, you can get a cheaper one and still be of good use. Maybe other breeds of dogs will use the pad part, but probably not so much a Shiba, they love their cleanliness most of the times! :) Neo will use a potty pad only if it's pouring rain outside and really needs to go. Hope that helps with your decision.
  • mcsassymcsassy
    Posts: 339
    Oh, how convenient. Any comments on the video have to be approved by the uploader...that way they can have absolutely zero negative comments about their shit product -- pun intended.
    image
  • EthosEthos
    Posts: 372
    Actually I feel it's a good solution to people who live in apartments with elevators.

    the potty part is made big compared to the bed part so the poppy is forced to leave the restricted area where he sleeps and potty in the larger area. if you make the sleeping section big the puppy might potty in that extra space. I might try it once I get my puppy :)
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8588
    I will warn anyone who is thinking of trying something like this that once a dog is trained to potty in the house (which is against many dog's nature), it is INCREDIBLY hard to train them to go outside.

    Many dogs also generalize, especially once they get a little older and think that if it is okay to go inside their crate/ex-pen that it is also okay to go in other parts of the house.

    However, if you absolutely feel the need to do this, then I would highly suggest that you get something different. In order for a dog to be properly crated, they must be able to fully stand up, lay down, AND turn around. A puppy would need a bigger area than that crate provides.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Ethos, your Shiba will likely come to you potty trained, if you go with a reputable breeder.

    I can promise both of you that most Shiba puppies would effin hate this, and I completely agree with all others about this being a waste of money, and counter productive. Shiba pups are very small and very easy to carry. I never let my pups walk to the door themselves on the way outside, but carry them to their potty spot so they don't relieve themselves on the way. Haven't been peed on yet!
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
    Post edited by lindsayt at 2012-03-06 22:12:29
  • koyukikoyuki
    Posts: 1244
    How is that going to work when the dog gets bigger? Would you keep using it, having a full grown dog pee and poo in your house then have to go retraining an older puppy to go to the toilet outside? If its a matter of difficulty getting the dog outside in time i can understand that but if you live in an apartment where it makes taking the dog outside difficult,are you ready to commit to always having your dog go to the toilet inside? Even if its in the designated area? In my opinion this product is so far from appropriate, for instance if the rspca in my area saw a dog locked in this ridiculous crate with a tiny sleeping area having to sleep where he goes to the toilet im pretty sure you would be fined! Not only that, most puppies learn to hold their bladder and movements through the night once they have matured a bit , for instance mine are 3 &1/2 months and they hold it from maybe 11 pm to 8am no worries although if they do need to go in between ofcourse i get up and let them out.so for a little while yes you may have to take pup out every few hours during the night but in time they will learn to hold it through the night so having immediate access outside during the night no longer becomes a problem, so regardless of your situation i dont see how it would be preferable to use this cage over good old fashioned toilet training OUTSIDEA the house. Or if you prefer maybe you can curl up next to where you have peed and pooped and try sleep the night? I cant imagine that is a very nice way to spend the night.
    Koyuki - red female
    Takeo- cream male
    Kenji- black and tan male
    Suma- sesame female
    Haruki-brindle Japanese Akita Inu
  • koyukikoyuki
    Posts: 1244
    That msg was for @ethos. Agree with you lindsayt about taking a small pup to where it needs to pee!
    Koyuki - red female
    Takeo- cream male
    Kenji- black and tan male
    Suma- sesame female
    Haruki-brindle Japanese Akita Inu
  • EthosEthos
    Posts: 372
    OK, convinced. won't get it :) you guys made good points.
  • koyukikoyuki
    Posts: 1244
    Sorry if it came off harsh, it wasnt meant to be at all. :-) shibas are so easy to housebreak it seems like this product is a step backward for any dog owner!
    Koyuki - red female
    Takeo- cream male
    Kenji- black and tan male
    Suma- sesame female
    Haruki-brindle Japanese Akita Inu
  • BrewSterBrewSter
    Posts: 193
    i live in an apartment and on the third floor :/ but for the first month we had brewster we simply took him out to go potty 1.)everytime we let him out of the crate 2.)if he ever looked like he was looking for a pee spot 3.) ever 2-3 hours....we got puppy pads in hopes that we can use them to show him places to go outside but he thought they were toys not to mention he goes pee or poop in a different spot everytime...ANYWHO this worked great for us maybe itll be good for you :) good lluck
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
    LoL, it's kind of a silly concept but I can see a use for it, like with an older doh who has incontinence. Though, it would be a lot cheaper just to buy a regular double door crate with divider, and just cut a hole in the divider. Miyu's crate cost me $100, it came with a divider, and it's big enough to fit Tikaani comfortably in.
    image
  • BruceBillisBruceBillis
    Posts: 100
    Thank you all for your feedback. I'm new to the forum and am very pleased to see the enthusiasm of the community here.

    Anyhow, some additional detail/clarification on my situation;

    I work from home and live in an apartment, so I take my Shiba (Bruce) out to potty on a strict schedule throughout the day.

    1. when he wakes up
    2. after breakfast
    3. before lunch
    4. after lunch
    5. before dinner
    6. after dinner
    7. before bed

    I also take him out anytime I notice any suspicious sniffing or circling.
    And I regulate his intake to help keep him regular.

    He is able to hold his bladder through the night (roughly 10pm to 5:30am)

    Despite it all, he will still have an occasional accident in the apartment.

    My hope was to train him to relieve himself in an appropriate place inside the apartment should he have to go in between his scheduled potty breaks. I currently keep a fresh potty pad setup where I was originally pad training him before I started taking him outside, but he does not like to use it.

    Also I thought that it would be more humane to allow him to relieve himself during the night rather than have to hold it till morning, and it would make things easy for rainy days.

    Lastly, my vet has advised to keep him away from other dogs including the areas that they frequent (the apartments designated pet relief area). Bruce has some sort of skin/fur issue that the vet is still trying to identify. I was considering having him potty inside for a period of time to see if the grass or some other outside agent is causing his reaction. Specifically, I noticed the landscaping crew using a nitrate fertilizer on the grounds. I live in a nice Orange County community and I did not see them using it specifically in the pet relief area. I would assume/hope that my management would have the foresight to use a natural greener in the pet relief area, but none the less I still worry.

    @Chirpy81

    Thank you for sharing your personal experience. This definitely seems like something that Bruce would do as well.

    @Calia

    I agree that for what they are providing (just a hole in a divider) doesn't justify the cost. Any company that wants to charge 200%+ over their competition had better provide a substantially better quality product. Had they only charged a reasonable price (anywhere around $100) I probably would've just purchased it without devoting this much thought.

    @all

    Thank you for your input, I feel like you've addressed all my concerns. It does not look like there is going to be a PTPA in Bruce's future.
    Bruce Billis | Red-Sesame Shiba Inu | DOB: 11/12/2011 | Southern California - Irvine
    Post edited by BruceBillis at 2012-03-07 10:49:25
  • InoushiInoushi
    Posts: 555
    when I got kenshin, I couldn't take him outside at all, very few dogs are vaccinated in my complex, and my vet advised me of some parvo deaths. So I paper trained him until his 12th week. I didn't have any of the crazy problems people said here, I just did discrimination training. He could only go in one spot if paper was down. Once we started going out it took 3 weeks to phase it out completely. He never goes inside of the house, barring the one time he had an emergency and aimed out of the window....
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Bruce,

    I use a potty patch (artificial grass) instead of a potty pad. That way it reinforces the concept of going on grass versus a potty pad (which my second puppy use to get confused with anything soft like carpet...lol)

    Its working very well since she rarely uses the patch unless its the LAST resort.(Example: I fell asleep watching t.v. and instead of waking me up to go potty, she used the patch)
  • BruceBillisBruceBillis
    Posts: 100
    @Bootz

    I had thought about using an indoor potty patch, but they seemed like they were pretty expensive. What kind did you purchase and how much was it?
    Bruce Billis | Red-Sesame Shiba Inu | DOB: 11/12/2011 | Southern California - Irvine
  • DjinnDjinn
    Posts: 161
    We have pens for ours with a divided area for toileting (cost about $60 from memory and came with a plastic removable toilet to put the pee pad on). Until recently they were confined in pens while we were at work, and the toilet was a bit of security in case they had an 'emergency'. Hayate doesn't like to toilet inside and will do everything he can to go out, but if we absolutely can't get him out when he needs to go he uses the pee pad. Kuri doesn't mind using it but prefers to go outside. Using pads has in no way damaged their toilet training, it just gives us a bit of security (we take them out even in fairly extreme weather but in the case of serious typhoons, tsunami warnings, flooding... it is important that they be able to relieve themselves somewhere appropriate indoors). It was also helpful to have the pads when Kuri had a UTI and needed to pee every hour or so. We both work long days and taking her out that often was impossible.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Bruce,

    Yea it is a bit pricey. I used the "As seen on tv" potty patch. The small one goes for 40, the large one goes for 80. I would recommend searching on craigslist. A lot of people get it for their puppy and it ends up not working out.

    I got a large one on craigslist for 25, which was a steal. I've seen a lot of people post the small potty patch for $20.

    Keep in mind that artificial grass does start to smell if you don't maintain it well (washing out the trays, washing the grass). Just a heads up since you live in an apt.
  • BruceBillisBruceBillis
    Posts: 100
    @Bootz

    I thought they were more like $200, maybe I was looking at a different style, idk. Anyhow, 40-$80 is totally within reason (and I just looked on craigslist and saw a few of the small ones for as low as $15...).

    Well, how do you clean the potty patch? I'm assuming that you would wash it down with a garden hose... and there isn't one in our apartment.

    Bruce Billis | Red-Sesame Shiba Inu | DOB: 11/12/2011 | Southern California - Irvine
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    The $200 dollar ones are fancy. They come with a sprinkler system (lol). Do you have a deck/balcony for your apartment? Don't have to use a hose, can just get a bucket of water and rinse it down and just dry it in the sun. The tray is the main thing you need to wash out since its the ammonia from the urine that causes the smell. I only wash mine out once a month...maybe every 3 weeks at the most, since Bootz rarely uses it.
  • BruceBillisBruceBillis
    Posts: 100
    @Bootz

    Yes, we do have a balcony, which I had originally hoped to use as Bruce's personal potty area, but he's scared of the blinds and the door (doesn't like the sound it makes when you open/close it). When I put him out there he's usually concentrated on the door, and not thinking about relieving himself. I'm sure I could alleviate the fear with some time, but having it outside he would still be dependent on me to open the door.

    Anyhow, I think this is deviating a bit from the PTPA product review. I'll probably switch to a potty training thread. But thanks for all the info.
    Bruce Billis | Red-Sesame Shiba Inu | DOB: 11/12/2011 | Southern California - Irvine
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    I don't know how the weather is in your city, but try get a screen/door attachment with a doggie door. That might help. Also try grabbing a chair and relaxing on the balcony so bruce knows the balcony is not a scary place.

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