OK so we were at the dog park this past weekend to let Hachi run around and play a little bit but he turned around and got into a fight with a Mastiff that was there. The situation was that Hachi had gotten to the park first so he was running around no problem and then Molly (the Mastiff) was in the interlock, if you will (the middle gate area between the outside world and the inner park area). When Molly was in the interlock, Hachi ran up to sniff the new dog and Molly let out a bark and growl that seemed to say "Stay away" so Hachi kinda trotted away no problem. But later, once Molly had gotten into the park Hachi trotted up to sniff her and again Molly let out a growl and then Hachi just went crazy doing his barks and growls and tried attacking Molly, to no avail. Molly had him pinned quickly but of course Hachi was still livid, barking and growling. By this point we, (me and the other owner), ran over there to break it up. I picked Hachi up, grabbed him by the collar and started scolding him and then put him on the leash. He bit me a couple times while I had a hold of his collar, which I expected knowing that Shibas don't like to be restrained. After the incident, while we still had Hachi on the leash and other dogs were coming up to try and sniff Hachi but he wouldn't let any dog get near him without letting out a fierce growl (even to a little Dauchshound). Hachi has shown some aggressive tendencies towards real submissive dogs (a couple of 6 month puppies at the park) as of late. I guess my question to the group is 1) is there anything I should have done differently? (i.e. should I have kept Hachi away from the Mastiff intially? My thought process is that dogs will usually sort stuff out themselves) 2) what can I do to train Hachi to stop being aggressive towards these really submissive puppies?
Personally I don't put all that much blame on Hachi. I feel like if the mastiff growls at other dogs in the park, she shouldn't be there. The mastiff clearly doesn't like other dogs messing with him, and some dogs won't get the hint, and things can possibly get out of control.
But as for teaching your dog to walk away from a situation like that, I would love to hear that answer to that.
Oh wow. You ask if there was anything you should have done differently... YES.
First off, please remember that dog parks can be VERY dangerous places.
Problem #1: A reactive dog enters the dog park. The owner of the mastiff should probably not have brought her to the park. However, you noticed that the mastiff was immediately being reactive. Yet, you let Hachi stay at the park. You should have immediately left the park until the reactive dog was gone. (You can not control what other people do, but you can definitely control what you do...) This would have eliminated all other problems.
Problem #2: You let Hachi go back up to the reactive dog. The reactive dog warned Hachi that she was not cool with his presence. Hachi (who, you have admitted has shown some reactive behaviours lately) reacted.
Problem #3: You picked Hachi up by the collar, scolded him, and restrained him. And he bit you. (I would have, too, if I were Hachi.) Your dog was already stressed and overstimulated. Other than removing him from the VERY dangerous situation that you placed him in by not leaving the dog park, you should not have held his collar or restrained him. In a situation like this, you should immediately leash him and leave the park, no yelling or scolding required.
Problem #4: You stayed at the park. Anytime there is ever a scuffle, fight, or type of behaviour that gets a dog aroused, you need to remove him from the situation.
Problem #5: You had him LEASHED inside the dog park with off leash dogs around. No wonder he was growling when dogs got near him. He was already aroused from the incident with the mastiff. But now you have him restrained with other dogs running up to him when he is already stressed out.
My opinion is to stop taking him to dog parks. Letting dogs 'sort stuff out themselves' is a recipe for disaster. He is obviously reactive (you admitted to yourself that he reacted towards some puppies, and puppies usually get to play the puppy card until about 7 months).
If you want to work on his socialization, which is highly recommended, then you need to do it under controlled circumstances. NOT at an off leash dog park with dogs that you do not know and have no idea how they will react.
Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia. I Wander, I Ride
On a recent thread it was mentioned that as Shibas get older they become less tolerant to other dogs especially new dogs. INU went through this at 1 1/2 and its specific to brachiocephalic and timid dogs. Penny who was initially shy around other dogs has become more sociable to others at this age. However, last week one of her friends, Emily went off, started attacking her and Penny fought back. INU jumped into the melee to protect her. Luckily, no one got hurt.
I have been avoiding the dog run when it gets too crowded and only go in if I know my dogs get along with the others there. Being that Shibas are a primitve breed I am beginning to believe that this aggressive behavior is moreover hardwired like prey drive and is difilcult to countercondition. However, I am still trying.
INU is trained to hand signals and quite responsive to them. When a new dog is coming into the run I put up the signal which means stop and wait. He will sit and wait till I tell him come. For introduction I hold him by the harness handle and turn him with his rear to the other dogs nose. This seems to stop his agressiveness to a new dog.
BTW, I've noticed most of aggression issues for most dogs occur by the gate and thats why I worked with the wait command with INU. Somebody coming in is "so exciting".
Personally my Shiba loves dog parks. He's only a year old, so maybe one day he'll start being aggressive. But right now he's happy with the park. There are some dogs that ruin the experience, and either play way too rough or are just plain out aggressive. As owners, we should ask those people to control their animal or go home. If they don't, I go home.
My dog shouldn't stop getting to do what he loves, because of other stupid dogs. But I do try to take some precautions. I try not to go to parks when they are busy. And I tend to go to the park with other dog friends. So my Shiba tends to play with his friends, and only really plays with other dogs that are friendly as he is.
I personally think shibas are not dog park material. They tend to like having control of their personal space, and are very specific about who they like. When I worked in daycare, we had crates dogs could retreat to when they were annoyed, shibas generally used them the most.
I also second the notion that shibas carry an aggressive trait. Too many shibas seem prone to it. When you only see a more friendly temperment in lines specifically bred for that, and even aggression cropping up there, its hard to say otherwise. The level of socialization a shiba needs compared to other dogs really speaks volumes. Though I wonder if aggression is the right word for it.
I also think people need to take into account that shibas are very sensitive. Resiliency seems to be lacking in the breed right now. A lot of little things can cause a huge amount of damage. So why risk it? Dog parks are a cool concept, but the risks, at least in my opinion are not worth it. Too many people have dogs that they can't find fault in, even if it could mean harm for other dogs or people.
Yuki started out doing great at dog parks, but as she matured, she developed her "never gonna back down" attitude. The dog parks here tend to be crowded with dogs that resource guard and owners that bring resources, so if one snarled at Yuki, she stood her ground and snarled back. We don't go to dog parks anymore and instead, set-up playdates with dogs she's okay with. Even then, if the play gets too rough, we redirect her to a toy, separate them, and let her calm down.
When I see Shiba meet-up pictures with like, 20 Shiba's running around, it always makes me a little envious. :)
A lot of situations i have seen arise from poorly socialized dogs &/ poorly educated owners. Bootz has a good habit of staying away from trouble making dogs. But there was one time a sibling pair came over to Bootz and it got out of hand. I rushed over, and the owner went "just let them figure it out". I too mainly only go to the park when the regulars are there since i know their dogs are well behaved.
Speaking of Shibas, i actually met two other shiba owners yesterday. One 4 months, one 6 years. The puppy was over friendly, and the older one did its own thing. The older one was fine with being pet by me and even played with Bootz. Chasing and a little rough play. The owner and i were chatting and out of no where the older shiba was fighting with another dog. Both dogs were friendly, and nobody saw what triggered the fight.
I should make mention that the Mastiff was playing fine with the other dogs in the park. I don't want to make it seem like the Mastiff was an overly reactive dog, just kinda reactive towards Hachi... not that it makes it any better... just throwing all the facts out there. I suppose we probably should have just walked out of there and went home. Lesson learned the hard way I guess. Thanks for the replies.
