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I'm feeling like I can't handle this
  • phoenixphoenix
    Posts: 141


    This week has been really challenging for me. There have been many times when I felt that dogs and I don't mix and I shouldn't have gone along with the plan of getting a puppy and a kitten at the same time, or a puppy at all.



    Kuma is giving us problems e.g. peeing everywhere - we have actually experienced a regression to what it was like in the first days he was with us. He's actually peeing and walking at the same time which means easily a 1m stretch of pee across one or 2 rooms.



    Other problems include his obsession with Nyx's litter. This had been going on for ages but today I caught him with his head inside the litter box and his mouth full of silica. Correcting him and distracting him hasn't worked yet, he does it when we're not looking - which isn't often. I tired to work out how to put the litter box higher, but Nyx hates to jump up - and I'm not going to ruin our solid wood doors with a cat flap.



    When I'm on my own with them, for short periods between lessons (I'm a freelance TEFL teacher) I spend most of the time cleaning after Kuma - the thing is, as soon as I finish he pees somewhere  again! I kinda suspect it might have something to do with the pen Rui set up for him.



    This might all sound banal to you guys but as most of you know, I have always liked and preferred cats. Even though I love Kuma, I have to admit I'm not happy with the living situation. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame Kuma, I just think I'm doing everything wrong because I am never sure if I'm dealing with him the right way.



    Goodness knows how many times I've cried this week either out of desperation or tiredness. I've had a lot going on the past few weeks besides the 'kids'. To make matters worse I felt Nyx was feeling neglected because she got a bit aggressive with me. After all was done I was too tired to play with her this week. Kuma and Nyx handle each other pretty well though, except when they get a bit
    too excited and I end up in the middle of the claws and fangs.



    Rui's getting a trainer on Monday and wants me to come home early from work. I just hope it'll be worth the time and money to get her. I'm very disheartened at this point.

  • scarletscarlet
    Posts: 562


    How old is Kuma.  Walking while peeing would indicate to me a possible kidney problem, rather than a discipline problem  Have you spoke to the Vet?  If so, maybe confining him to smaller spaces might help



    I have never met a dog who did not like the cat box.  I could only suggest that the box be housed where Nyx can get to it and Kuma cannot, i.e., a small cat door or gate or the like.



    Why did you get Kuma?  It is Rui's dog?  Is he walking him regularly?

  • okironokiron
    Posts: 735
    *huggies* I know how you feel Nat. It'll all work out somehow. The trainer will hopefully help a lot. There's been times when I get overwhelmed and think I can't do it and think the best thing to do is to rehome everybody because I can't take care of everyone the way they should. But then my friend Carolyn tells me to get over myself, that I'm a great parent and no one can take care of my animals better than me.
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    Posts: 3433


    You don't need to ruin a door to be able to keep Kuma out.  Attach an eyehole screw on the inside of the doorway (the side of the room the litterbox is in), and tie a rope to it.  On the other end of the rope, tie a loop that fits easily on and off the door knob.  Make sure the rope only allows the door to be open enough for Nyx to get in, but not Kuma.  As an Akita, he is growing fast and soon enough it shouldn't be to hard for her to get through and not him.



    Other than that, it seems like you should really be there when the trainer is there.  You are not confident in your dog handling skills and working with a trainer can help you gain those abilities that you will need as Kuma grows.  As for the peeing, it seems that you guys really need to teach him how to let you know when he has to go out.  For now I would wear him tethered to you with a leash everywhere you go.  If he starts to lift a leg, or go pee, stop him and get him outside.  It will take some time and practice, he is still so young.



    Lastly, take a deep breath and relax.  I can't say my wife was completely ready for a dog when we got one, but we worked through it together and now she loves Nemo as much as I do.  You guys made a big life change by bringing in two young animals at the same time, big changes take time and dedication to adjust too.  Soon enough the good times will start to outweigh the bad.

  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2722
    Do you have a small crate for Kuma, just big enough where he can make a circle and lay down in?  Seems as though you guys are giving him too much freedom.  Dogs won't soil where they sleep or eat.  So if he's peeing constantly, you might want to keep him in a crate for small periods of time.  First 10 mins, 20 mins, 30 mins, 1 hour, 2 hour, 3, hour 4, hour etc.  This way he will learn that he needs to "hold it" until he is let out, otherwise he will have to sit/lay in it until someone lets him out.  Don't worry, you guys are both new puppy owners.  It does get frustrating, but it is definately worth it in the end if you can stick it out.  Also, you might want to try giving him water at specific times.  If he is allowed to drink water freely, that maybe be a part of him urinating so much.  you might give him water in the morning, let him do his business and then an hour later give him more water and take him out.  Its basically just consistency and having a schedule really helps.  Good Luck, keep us updated...don't worry...you guys are doing a GREAT job!  Keep your head up!
  • phoenixphoenix
    Posts: 141


    Scarlet: Kuma will be 3 months old this Sunday. He doesn't lift his leg yet and doesn't make it very obvious to us when he needs to pee. Pooping is no problem he got that down pretty quickly - always on the newspaper. The pee either far away, off or at the edge of the newspaper.



    Kuma was Rui's dream - he's the dog person. I have always had cats so we compromised by getting both young at the same time so they could grow up together and co-exist.



    Rina: Thank you for the huggies. I feel at a disadvantage somehow - I'm not a kid person, and dogs are the closest thing to them in my mind! Even after having Kuma for a month, I still feel pretty 'green', can't adapt.



    Brandon: That rope idea I'd definitely consider. As I said to Scralet, he doesn't lift his leg yet. He pees when he gets excited too. I agree with you that I need to gain confidence with him - I feel like I'm either not assertive enough or else get frustrated with him and make him edgier. I wasn't ready for the dog at all. I thought Rui would be enough to guide me through this since he's a dog encyclopedia. Turns out that we're going on a hit and miss approach sometimes, or at least that what it feels like. I think I worried too much about his size rather than his behaviour. The cold he had when he first arrived meant that we had to redo the vaccinations so we haven't been able to take him out as much as we wanted. Hopefully this will change soon after the 26th when his last shots are due. 



    Thanks to all of you for such rapid answers!Smile

  • jmaxwelljmaxwell
    Posts: 287


    Phoenix -



    When I first got Kenji (my male Kai-Ken) I thought he would be potty trained in 2 weeks, because with Keira, she was so easy to potty train. Well I was wrong. He had problems up until 8-9 months. He still doesnt lift his leg either. Male dogs are very hard to potty train so that is totally normal. He has also walked and peed a few times. You just need to watch how much water he takes in and then know about every half hour hes going to need to go again. Until this day I still take away his water dish becuse he drinks so much. If he could he would drink every half hour. I would just give it time. When he pees outside, reward him. when he pees inside just say no or bad and get a pattern going, but make sure not to scold him. There are alot of places that have free potty training seminars that you can talk to a trainer about and they can give you tips or tell you what may be going wrong.



    As far as the kitty litter goes, I am with you on that one. Keira started eating it, and then Kenji watched her and now does the same thing. I would suggest getting a self cleaning litter box or one that closes. You could even get this stuff that looks like Arm and Hammer baking soda in the kitty isle that you sprinkle in to elliminate the strong odor. I know that as soon as one of our cats goes, they are right in there because they can smell it. You could also spray bitter apple around the litter box so he wont want to be near it. Dont worry, he will get over it im sure. I will just take time and repetition.

  • shandrewshandrew
    Posts: 69


    Hang in there!



    I often felt the same way when we first got Kiba....he did the pee and walk thing too. I think Kiba would do it b/c we would get tense when he started peeing and start yelling "NO" so then he started peeing and walking around. We used up so much Nature's Miracle, that we ended up just putting it in the steam cleaner to clean our carpets. He would scream all day long and our neighbors would let us know that they could hear it. I also had a lot of anxiety b/c i felt like we were neglecting our other dog, Shinobi and they hated each other. But now, 3.5 months later, he stopped the screaming can hold his pee almost all day. We are still working on the Kiba and Shinobi relationship, but it's definitely improved. Don't worry...it gets better! You, Nyx, and Kuma just need to give yourself time to adjust to the changes...and this time will fly by. I agree with Romi and using the crate if it works for Kuma. Kiba peed in his crate every time we crated him, so now he stays in the kitchen with a gate. It seems to work better.



    Anyway, i feel you on this...but really...it will get better! Smile



    oh yah...with the pee thing - you can monitor his water intake also. Puppies drink a lot of water, but might not need all of it. Also try to put him on a schedule...20 minutes after he eats or drinks, take him out to potty and don't come back in until he does. Give him lots of praise each time with a treat too...so he'll associate outside and treat with potty time. That seemed to work with Kiba.

  • okironokiron
    Posts: 735
    Heh Errik and I have been living together for about 4 months now. This is the first time he's ever had any other animals but dogs in his life. He's still green and learning lol. It'll only get better with time and practice. And  you could always come to the forum for help :)
  • Hey Nat, I can totally understand why you may be feeling a little overwhelmed. Bringing a puppy into your home turns it upside down in no time. No longer can you just relax on the couch and take a nap because you have to keep one eye on the little rascal at all times to make sure he's not getting into mischief. I agree with what everyone has been telling you. Dog trainers, at least the good ones, will work with the owner first, not the dog. If you are feeling overwhelmed or like you can't communicate with Kuma, I'm sure he feels it too and it makes things worse. If you can get home from work for the session with the trainer I'm sure it will be really really good for you. You may hear that you are already doing things right, but hearing it from a professional will give you the confidence to carry through and make Kuma listen. As for the peeing, I think you'll see a huge improvement once you start taking Kuma out more regularly. Joey is on a strict schedule and when I break it is when he has problems. I have no newspaper or wee pads in the house at all. Yes, he has accidents from time to time, but he's a puppy and I wouldn't expect anything less. He knows that when we go out he is supposed to go to the bathroom so he runs over to his spot and tries to go even if he's got nothing in the tank. Kuma will pick it up quickly too I'm sure. I also agree that crating him would be a good idea. Keeping a dog in a crate when you aren't around teaches them to hold their pee while in the house. When I'm around, Joey goes out every 3-4 hours. He also goes out first thing in the morning, right before I leave the house, right after I get back, and right before bed. Recently his only accidents have come when he was left out of his crate at night or when a friend stops by and he hasn't been out in a few hours. The leash idea that Brandon suggested is also a great idea. Even if he doesn't give clearly visible signs he is going to pee, there are probably some subtle ones you may notice if he is tethered to you while you're home. I've noticed with Joey that whining often means he frustrated, not that he has to go out. If he whines and sniffs the ground, I've got about 30 seconds to pick him up and carry him to the door before he lets it go. You may notice Kuma sniffing around when he has to go as well. I know things seem really tough right now, but stick with it. Kuma is going to grow up to be a happy, healthy, and well behaved boy in no time!
  • LeonbergerLeonberger
    Posts: 3580


    Thank you for the support, guys!



    Kuma is still a very young puppy, so I know we have kind of a long way to go. We're still getting to know him and he's getting to know us. Sometimes it is easier than others, sometimes it's despairing, other's it's a joy. Hopefully, and as soon as his last vaccines take effect he'll start to go out more often and longer. I take him out 3 times a day, normally. Right after we wake up, when I get home, and closer to bedtime. The last 3 days we had heavy rain and strong wind, so this schedule has been somewhat altered.



    Hopefully the trainer/behaviourist might help us help Kuma understand us better, and us him of course. 

  • phoenixphoenix
    Posts: 141


    Thank you everyone for your advice.



    I am hopeful about the trainer appointment.



    We've just tried the rope thing using Kuma's leash but we'll have to get something with less give in it.



    It is Rui's choice whether or not to get the crate. What you guys said makes absolute sense though. We should have done that.



    Dave: He sniffs around when he's going to poop but I haven't picked up on any consistent signs when he wants to pee. It literally can happen at any time, except when he's sleeping!!



    After your comments I remembered having read that you shouldn't give your dog water after a certain time in the evening. How do you guys deal with giving water? If we're meant to have 2litres, how much should a 10+kg pup have everyday? I feel that we give him too much and he has water available 24/7.



    Also, he poops when we're at home and go in other rooms and close the doors leaving him in the entrance (his room) - e.g. to have a shower and when he sees us sit at the dining table to eat - no matter what time that is, because I have a crazy schedule and pretty much eat when I can. Has anyone had similar problems? I guess crating again could be the answer, right? When Rui's here, on weekday evenings, I eat when he takes him out or right after he's been out.



     



    Hugs!




     

  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468


    the litter box thing, when i fostered two cats with a very curious shiba pup here - we got a litter box with a lid enclosure faced the entrance to the litter box very close to the wall, giving only enough room for the cat to sneak in and not the dog - it worked. we actually had a 'cat station' where it was like an open, thick shelving unit, the litter box on the bottom very near the wall, then the cat food & water was on a higher shelf that the shiba could never ever reach.



    the pee thing, have you considered bell training Kuma? You put a hanging bell on the door you go out to pee most and i would touch it, or touch my dogs nose with the bell and make a big deal about it, even giving them a treat when I rang it - then going outside right after ringing the bell. One day Tsuki just hit it with her nose, whether she meant to or not, we made a deal, praised her, took her outside, and its been that way ever since.

  • I think controlling his water portions will help with the timing of his peeing. Joey gets dinner around 8:30 and at 9:00 his water bowl is picked up. Lucy still has access to one because she has proven to be able to hold her bladder all night. Joey seems to be ok going on a schedule, so after we get back from our morning walk up until 9:00 at night he has access to water. If he was having problems, I would only give him water an hour or so before I planned to take him out to pee. You could try something like that with Kuma. He will drink enough if you give him water on a regular schedule. If you are concerned that he is getting dehydrated, you can pinch the skin at the top of his shoulders. If it doesn't return to normal immediately, he may be getting dehydrated. As for the pooping, it sounds like he has decided that his place to poop is in that room so he associated pooping with being in there. I think crating him and taking him out more often will help with that problem.
  • ddowdemersddowdemers
    Posts: 670


    I agree with crating Kuma.  He won't like it and he will probably fuss because he is not used to being so confined however, this will help with  his "outings"  and he will be much happier with a schedule and learning what you expect of him.  He is a darling boy and he wants to please you so hang in there.  He is only a 3 month old puppy and he is learning every minute of the day.

  • A note on crating: Joey HATED his crate at first. He would cry loudly for at least half an hour every time I put him in there. Now, if I put bring Lucy and Joey into the kitchen and put up the gate so I can keep an eye on them while I'm working in there, Joey will usually go into his crate and take a nap. He seems to really like it now. So if you decided to crate Kuma (which from my experience I would highly suggest) make sure you hang in there, he'll learn to like it I promise.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    crating was a nightmare with fosters but my shibas just wimper for a second then they are fine. Kuma will probably learn to LOVE his crate/den!
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    Posts: 3433
    Crates are your best friend ever.  I highly recommend giving one.  They help keep a dog out of trouble (and possible injury) if you can't keep an eye on them at the moment.
  • grandemugrandemu
    Posts: 232


    I remember you were saying in another discussion that you weren't really taking Kuma outside to go to the bathroom, and kind of encouraging the indoor pads b/c of the vet and vaccinations. Tag was my 1st puppy, and I was paranoid about the parvo thing (probably the reason your vet said to keep Kuma protected), so until he was 5 months (shot at 4 months, 1 month to take effect) I didn't really take him out, kept him away from other dogs, etc...well, he could definitely have used more socialization. As a border collie, he's def more laid-back anyway - he just tends to be skittish with new people. This is not a luxury people with Japanese dogs tend to have - early and frequent socialization is essential. I learned that you have to balance the precautions you take for the health of the puppy, with the vital tasks of socialization (and this isn't just other people and dogs, it's new situations, things, everything). The first 4 months of a puppy's life are it's most open and impressionable - after 5 months, they tend to enter their fearful phase, just like kids can. What you need to watch for is where you take the puppy. Outside is fine - necessary, as much as possible. Keep away from areas where lots of dogs eliminate - outside vets offices, some areas of parks, etc. Walking through a neighborhood, through town, around people is fine. Puppies can get parvo from the feces of a dog carrying it...and it can stay viable for a long time outside. So, this is where the risk lies...it is possible that it could be anywhere outside, but it is much more likely where people do not tend to pick up after their dogs (or, like a vets office, where there is a tendency to have more sick dogs). I'm not sure how it is there, with people vaccinating their dogs and stuff, but allowing Kuma to socialize with healthy (usually properly vaccinated dogs) is vital for his adult behavior.



    I don't think 3 times a day to go outside is enough for a 3 month old puppy - as a necessity, fine, but ideally more often. When you are away from home all day, and the puppy is sleeping, 3 times can work b/c they're sleeping most of the time, and they can hold it. But when you are home, and the puppy is active, sleeping, getting up, etc, they are going to have to go more often.  The water monitoring is very helpful...both male dogs I've raised from puppies have taken a while to stop the pee and walk thing - they'd play, get excited,  not realize what's going on, and leave a trail all over the place. So, picking up the water helps. Also, every time the puppy wakes up, gets up from laying down for a while, has been playing for a while, eats, drinks a lot (give some time for this)...it's a good probability Kuma will have to at the least, pee. 



    While you allow him to eliminate in the house, it is going to be difficult to train him not to do it. It takes a while for dogs to make the distinction between hold it, and we're going to be gone long enough, just go inside. All he knows is it's ok to go inside. So, just try to get him out (as I mentioned above) at key times. It's kind of a hassle, but not having to clean up all the time is a benefit, plus hopefully getting house trained sooner. 



    PS I agree - crates are great for training. 

  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2242


    I dunno that I can add much to this, I am a bit late... but I just want to say hang in there! It passes. The good news is boys house train faster, the bad news is when they pee in the house it tends to go everywhere.



    Hilo had some issues holding his bladder too, he would get excited and just pee everywhere! He eventually grew out of it, I want to say he was not peeing in the house anymore around 4.5 months or so.



    At least it's not submissive pee like you see in females, Loa still does this. Every time I pet her she pees, yesterday she did in on my shoe! She's 6+ months old now!!!

  • LeonbergerLeonberger
    Posts: 3580
    Today, we've been going out every 45 minutes or so, and after Kuma wakes up or plays. Happy to say there was only one accident today! He's peed outside everytime, at least twice. I could do with more vacation right now, to get him used to this. But of course, he can't hold it for long, not yet, so getting him used to the routine won't help for the week days where he spends some time alone.
  • jmaxwelljmaxwell
    Posts: 287


    Pheonix -



    I was browsing Petsmart's website, and I came across a really cool kitty litter, that I might even get for myself! The entry way is from the top, and a dog cant get in there, and if they try they will get their head stuck! LOL Tongue out



    http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754439

  • MommyofNikoMommyofNiko
    Posts: 2728
    Kitty would NEVER use that.  Good idea for a new cat, but my cat is old and cranky.
  • LeonbergerLeonberger
    Posts: 3580


    Hi guys it's Natasha using Rui's pc because it seems mine just died.



    There have already been some changes about the litter problem.



    The daytime place of Nyx's litter box is between the fridge and the wall in the kitchen. We decided to turn the box (it is a covered box, btw) with the door facing the wall. There's just enough room for her to walk through to the back. To make sure that Kuma can't push the box back when she's in and risk trapping her inside, I took a small, ruined bathroom carpet and cut in in half. It's got a rubber backing and the top has a good enough pile to keep the litter from flying all over as she comes out.



    We're using the other half of the carpet in the bedroom, since she sleeps with us at night.



    She's already taken to the change, thankfully, and I've cleaned the floors so there's no litter anywhere. I just hope Kuma won't outsmart us!



    Thanks to everyone for all your encouragement and advice.



    Hugs,



    Natasha

    Post edited by Leonberger at 2008-04-20 11:59:21
  • MommyofNikoMommyofNiko
    Posts: 2728
    Glad that has helped out!
  • That's great Nat! Keep it up!
  • LeonbergerLeonberger
    Posts: 3580


    I have greeeat news! As I told you on Kuma's thread we went out this evening to have Nat's laptop checked. We were out for 2 hours or so. As we were coming back, we were talking about we'd have to clean up after Kuma, since he was alone. We got home and NO ACCIDENTS!!! We ran outside with him, and did this huge, huge pee. The little guy managed to hold it for two hours! Normally he has these "spite" pees as soon as we leave him alone.

    I was amazed at him. Nat came along for the walk and walked him for most of the way and he peed yet another time. The we came back so he could have dinner, went back down after a bit and he peed again.



    From NatashaCool:



    So, just to add a bit to what Rui's said, we've decided that tomorrow morning, since I'll be home, I'll take him out twice before leaving. Up to now, I hadn't really gone with Rui and Kuma on their walks. I always took advantage of the emptier house to play with Nyx or just spend some girl time with her or clean! I will have to sacrifice some of that I guess - until things settle and Kuma's able to control himself more.



    I don't expect I'll become a dog person at any point- but I'll be a substitute for Rui when he's away. I will always prefer staying with my pretty kittie than scooping poop.Tongue out



    Anyway, it's nice not to have the house reeking of his pee and poop and I'm much more positive about things today!Laughing

  • MommyofNikoMommyofNiko
    Posts: 2728


    YAY for both of you!!  Im glad things were bright today.  And you got him a great treat for bing such a good boy. 



    Natasha-I never thought I was a dog person but they infiltrate your lives and most of all your heart! 

  • That's just awesome guys! I'm so excited that things have turned around for you so quickly. :-) Stick to it...it only get better from here. And Nat, need I remind you that what you say on this forum can come back to haunt you later on? ;-)
  • LeonbergerLeonberger
    Posts: 3580
    Nat says she's too lazy and will always prefer cuddling with Nyx on the sofa to picking up poop outside when it's raining and windy.
  • ddowdemersddowdemers
    Posts: 670


    I can definitely relate to Natasha.  I was a one animal person...and that animal was CAT.  But then Paul went and signed a contract with Katja without telling meYell.  I was sooo mad.  But then Tenji arrived.Surprised  He won me over in no time.  I love my cats but I would never, never give Tenji up.Laughing  My cats even think he's okay.

  • LeonbergerLeonberger
    Posts: 3580


    Natasha again:



    Right back from my first walk with Kuma on my own. I think I did reasonably well. He does pull though! I kept urging him to walk together - using the same order Rui uses.



    We did have an accident right after Rui left for work - but it was due to the excitement of playing with Nyx. I think Nyx is jealous - as soon as we came back she started jumping at both of us!



    Have to start getting ready for work - don't know if I'm going to manage to eat anything to take him out....Undecided

    Post edited by Leonberger at 2008-04-21 08:21:20
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    Posts: 3433


    Natasha - I am glad to hear you are becoming more proactive.  It is really the only way to have Kuma understand that you are in charge too.  With a lot of the Japanese breeds, it's like they really need to respect you to pay any attention to you at all.  I'm sure he does pull too, he's just a little puppy who is excited to explore the great big world.



    I'm sure there will be more accidents in the future but it is great that he held it for two hours! 

  • Natasha, that's great that you took Kuma for a walk. Aside from being great exercise for the both of you, walking with a dog helps to strengthen the bond you have with them. And pulling is totally normal for a puppy his age, especially one that hasn't been walking all that much. He'll get the hang of it very quickly just like you will. Keep it up!
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2722


    Natasha - That's great that you're taking Kuma for walks.  I think walks are a great way for human and dog to bond.  Keep us updated on your progress...sounds like everything is getting better already!

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