I noticed that there are 2 different face look for the shiba inu. the original japanese look (Racoon face / wide flatter face, smaller ears and eyes, shorter nose)
Your two links are both examples of a desirable type. The snipey muzzle and no cheeks look (foxey) is more associated with poor breeding. Most breeders will want the full cheek and thick ears with moderate muzzle length, as that is more consistent with breed standards.
Every breeder has their own vision and interpretation of standards, but I like the severe expression and full cheeks with thick ears that is more NIPPO and more correct, IMO.
Masakado Shiba Inu www.masakadoshiba.wordpress.com "Common sense isn't so common"
Haha, I love them, @Lindsayt. They look so serious, which is sort of counter-acted by looking a bit like bobble-heads.
Hammond's got "serious-face" down pat, but doesn't have the wide face yet (the breeder expects him to be close to the proper look, though), but at certain angles he still looks like a bobble-head as well. It's adorable and hilarious. :D
Wow they r so beautiful. how can you tell if a puppy will end up having this facial look? do you any breeder that try to achieve those standards in their litters?
They are beautiful, but of course we all knew that! ;) And accomplished too!
Makes me think we ought to resurrect the thread on what is the correct look for the Shiba. I think a lot of people have not even seen Shibas with the correct breed standard look. Which is pretty sad.
i'm so glad you posted this, I've known my two shibas looked quite different, but I've never been able to accurately explain the difference. And i'm glad someone explained why they would look so different. I like the slim line fox face that my boy has but I love the round raccoon face my girl has because of how it looks like she is smiling
does anyone know if the coat texture is different? my boy with the fox face has super soft fur and when he sheds his winter coat he comes out looking a little like a dingo/basenji: people have mistaken him for it but my girl with the raccoon face has thicker fluffier fur so she actually looks bigger than my boy and in the summer looks the same as she does in the winter.
I got this website off of my in state shiba inu rescue, it's got a list of akc merited shiba breeders in the US http://www.shibas.org/breeders.html
Different lines mature at different rates. The male is 4.5 years, the bitch is 1.5 years, and both are very out of coat. Speaking purely from the experiences of my own dogs and their relatives, they tend to age like fine wine in all areas.
If the dog comes from mill or pet store sources, you wont end up with a dog that looks anything like the show and NIPPO photos, which is unfortunate as those sites often advertise otherwise, and often use photos poached from AKC breeders' sites. Coat texture and facial features are included in that statement. The chipmunk cheek, smaller thicker ear and correct harsh standoff coat are not often seen in dogs from mills, so if you have a dog from a mill, or petstore, or online breeder, you are far more likely to end up with a dog that has a poor coat, and poor type.
Masakado Shiba Inu www.masakadoshiba.wordpress.com "Common sense isn't so common"
Lindsay - just curious, is there a standard or preference on their girth? Your two dogs are very different looking; one is short and stalky, while the other is taller and more lean. Is it more just a difference in build type among sexes or hereditary traits?
This thread really makes me curious as to what my pup is going to look like as an adult. As I'm typing this, I keep looking over at him to analyze his face, but I think I'll have to wait another 3 or so months till I get to see lol. If I remember correctly, his mother had a face much like the pictures you posted.
I had noticed the difference in the faces as well. I do love the raccoon-like face, it makes them look so Asian! And they remind me of the Japanese Akitas. The fluffiness in their cheeks is adorable. Apollo's currently shedding like mad getting rid of his puppy coat, so of course his face hasn't reached that kind of fluff. There's always the possibility his nose will get much longer, but it's a pretty average length right now.
Differences in girth -- I assumed one was male, the other female :P but I could be wrong!
As for faces, this is a great discussion!!! Hamlet was bred for showing but there were some concerns about his coat having faults (sesames are tricky) so his breeder decided to offer him as a pet quality pup to get him a good home. I will ALWAYS remember the conversation I had with the breeder the day I came to pick him up.
The breeder was cuddling Hamlet and petting him. He gestured to his face and commented, "You know, I've never had a puppy with such a great face at this age. Look at his eyes..." and he went on, pointing out what he looked for in his show dogs and what he saw in Hamlet. He actually seemed very torn about selling Hamlet as pet quality, and offered to co-own him and train me to handle him in the ring.
As time has gone on, I've noticed the things about Hamlet's face that makes him a potential show prospect and made the breeder question his choice -- the slightly tilted eyes that are evenly set, full cheeks with the proper amount of Urajiro, strong stop that goes in well-proportioned muzzle, small but thick ears. I wish I had a good picture of him since I'm extremely proud of his looks - he's such a handsome boy!
**Our vet also encouraged us to show Hamlet since he was extremely impressed with his stance, coloring and face....maybe our little Ham missed his calling!! :p (He would have adored the show ring too; he loves showing off and looking like a little prince strutting around, and he has such an easy temperment now that he has matured.)
Saya is two years and I do notice her fur is getting more fluffy and sometimes she has thinner face sometimes it's puffed up at least I notice it in her pictures.
I don't care which face type she is though she cute either way. hehe
It does suck that the photos on the other thread didn't survive the migration, because I'd love to see the comparisons. It's also neat to understand all of the dynamics necessary for show, like the stances/movement/tailsets/face shape aesthetics.
Just a question, mostly for people here who are more active in showing and attending shows: What impact do good grooming, photography, and correctly placed leads in making the "chipmunk cheek" effect clearer? I mean, if they're not leashed, do they still have that perfectly round poufball head?
I'd love if I could make Azami more poufy, but being a largely indoor dog, I feel like she never seems to need that much undercoat...her three weeks playing outside at Rodel while we were on our honeymoon made her coat so much thicker, but then she exploded when we brought her home!
Hamlet will you please take some pictures of your dog from different angles? Im so curious to see how he looks like. You are so lucky to have such a dog. Ya Sesame is a tricky color. I think according to the standards it has to be red with only 1/8th of the hair black colored overlay. The mixed red-black color is just a mixed red-black not a sesame.
@lindsayt - Just curious, what if you showed a Jomon Shiba? Would the judges be judging the face look differently? Can you even show one since the Jomon shiba breed is deliberately breaking away from the NIPPO standards in favor of the older look?
Leo "JD" Hu | Cream Shiba Inu | DOB: 8/19/2011 | Southern California - LA/OC
I doubt a Jomon shiba would be allowed at AKC show since they're pretty much different from shiba inu.. They'd need be a seperate breed like JA and AA or separate breed type I dunno.
Thank you. They are male and female. This is perhaps not the best conformation photo and the bitch looks smaller then she truely is as she is in the foreground, but I love her head. They are not closely related, so part of it is sex related (she is a small female and he is a taller male), and part of it is different genes.
Registration issues aside, the Jomon has bad type for a Shiba and would not do well in any venue other than it's own society hosted shows.
There is a height to chest depth preference, with the chest being half of, or slightly less than 50% of the total height.
Too bad those photos didn't transfer over. I have them on my hard drive and can repost them when I get time.
Masakado Shiba Inu www.masakadoshiba.wordpress.com "Common sense isn't so common"
Tried to find some good pics of Ham that show off his face (hard!!!). His breeder tends to go for a bit larger eye, just how he interprets the standard. And Hamlet looks extra fluffy in the last one since he's blowing coat right now :)
