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A ''mini" shiba inu??
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468


    For some reason, I'm a bit disturbed by Ice Wind Farm's claim that
    they have created a Mini Shiba that only amounts to 10lbs full grown.



    Isn't
    that a clear indicator that she is not breeding for the betterment of
    the breed? Or does this really sometimes happen? I mean, my shibas are
    18lbs each but they are active year old shibas..



    http://icewindfarm.com/

    Available Now: 2 Mini Shiba Puppies, 8 weeks old. On Rare Occasions we will have minature
    shiba pups that will only grow to about 10 lbs. in size as an Adult. They are very cute ,
    have great temperaments, and could fit in your pocket. They are amazing to watch, they are very
    fast and playful. 

  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    Posts: 3433
    The fact she is trying to breed mini Shibas is nothing short of horrifying.  It's just sickening, there don't need to be mini shibas. 
  • jmaxwelljmaxwell
    Posts: 287
    OMG I am so pissed off at that website! Do you see how that girl is showing her off just as she was in a pagent with her dog??? She is clearly pimping them out for money, and not for standards to the breed itself. That makes me sick to my stomach!Yell
  • scarletscarlet
    Posts: 562
    Very sad, very sad.
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    Posts: 3105
    I agree.  Jazz weighed in at 17 lbs, but she was underweight when I got her and is proud to be hovering at 20 lbs. now - she looks so much better.
    LJ - owned by Queen Jazz, a Shiba Inu, Atlanta, GA
    CSC_0144
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    Needless to say if I ever consider starting a shiba from a pup, I can
    successfully eliminate them as a reputable breeder. I am so
    disappointed.
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 735
    Yeah...that's just horrid. Aren't shibas small enough?
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2205
    They have mini Shibas in Japan, they are called "Momo Shibas" (I think). It's terrible... we should all spam that site with hate mail (not really).
  • hondruhondru
    Posts: 526
    Good grief, why must everything be miniature?
    -Heidi, with Rakka (shikoku) and Sosuke (kai ken)
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 735
    Max weight is 20lbs...how much smaller do you need? If you want a 5lbs dog get a chihuahua.
  • kwyldkwyld
    Posts: 506
      Oh dear, my Shiba is 13-14 lbs.  I wasn't looking for a mini Shiba, but Taj just turned out remarkably small.  Her parents were normal size though.  Brad isn't Kaia pretty small too? 
  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    Posts: 1880
    It does happen on occasion, but it is a defect just like the cream color. It should not be bred for because they are cute. Nor should they be sold as "designer" Shibas. Joey's breeder had a litter that had some problems. One still born and one "disabled" puppy. The disabled puppy was tiny, they were estimating she was going to be 10 pounds fully grown just like the icewind "mini shibas". Joey's breeder refused to sell her. She is keeping her as a pet and may *give* her to a carefully screened home later in her life.

    Brad, can you talk to your brother about the legal issues associated with maintaining a public black list of breeders? I don't know if its something I/we want to get involved with, but part of me wonders if it may do some good.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2205


    yes, Kaia is super small - she is 14lb, but is a bit plump these days (I have nicked-named her sausage because she has no shape), she is on a diet now tho. Anyway, she should be closer to 10 - 12 for her size.



    I will ask my bro tonight... that is a good idea, tho I agree it may make us the target of some hate.

  • okironokiron
    Posts: 735
    That's the sad part. I can have a list of recommended breeders with little issue (besides pro-rescue people who look down upon people who purchase from breeders) but a list of not recommended breeders might get me more than enough hate mail.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468


    icewind already has flack for their "Tamaskan" breeding and how they are not improved by the tamaskan associations but deny that they need to be blah blah



    its not the fact that they have a 'defective' litter, its the fact she is marketing them as a new designer breed of Shiba. That is so wrong. That should be made crystal clear to her. I sent an email.

  • sujewelsujewel
    Posts: 2541


    Wow. That is pretty horrifying. I hate this designer dog craze. This afternoon, I saw a mini yorkie in bag on the bus. Cute, but aren't dogs supposed to walk? You know, enjoy the journey, roam, run, sniff. These designer dogs do nothing but sit there. Only a few designer dogs I've met had any kind of personality. How can they? They weigh all of 4lbs. They need all their energy just to open their eye, let alone wag their tails.



     

  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    Posts: 1880
    Actually, I was thinking about this thread earlier. Brad, did you get a chance to talk to you brother?
  • sujewelsujewel
    Posts: 2541
    As usual, playing catch up here.
  • jennajenna
    Posts: 154
    Hi... I just joined the forum after reading this thread. (It was pointed out to me during an email discussion regarding Icewinds "mini Shibas.")

    Anyway, I wanted to comment on a couple things. Not sure how to thread my replies under the post they are related to, so just putting everything here.

    brada1878: mini versions of most breeds - including Shibas - in Japan are called Mame. Mame Shibas however are NOT a recognized part of the Nippo standard. The standard for Shibas in Japan is actually a little bit LARGER than the AKC standard in the US.

    okiron: - it is absolutely a misperception that "pro-rescue" people are also anti-breeder. It may hold true for many all-breed rescuers, but in all actuality most people who are involved in breed specific rescue are very pro responsible breeding. If it weren't for responsible breeders, the breed we love so much would
    not exist.


    I know many people involved in Shiba rescue and other breed-specific rescue and many of them have relationships with, and respect for, reputable breeders. I am very anti-puppymill and anti-pet store and anti-backyard breeder, but I have a great relationship with a number of reputable breeders. I feel like we have the same goal - the welfare of the breed. I refer people to reputable breeders all the time. I also steer people away from non-responsible breeders whenever possible.

    I am a member of the Shiba Club of Greater New York and all of the breeders and fanciers in SCGNY believe "if you won't rescue, don't breed" and they are all involved with rescue. They support NYCSR through volunteering, making donations, and referring potential adopters. Many breeders outside our area strongly support us also.

    Last, but sooooo not least, my heart dog - Snickers - was purchased as a pup from an NSCA/SCGNY breeder and, although I also have an adopted female and various foster dogs coming and going, I intend to always have one dog from a good breeder. Snickers has the most amazing temperament (he is a Canine Good Citizen and a Delta Society registered therapy dog) and I wouldn't trade the relationship I have with him for anything.

    --
    jenna gates
    "it’s all about the inus"
    nyc shiba rescue, inc.
    nycshibarescue.org
    jenna -> founder of nyc shiba rescue, inc.
    snickers -> master of shiba mind control
    jennaandsnickers.com
    Post edited by jenna at 2008-04-29 14:44:21
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    Jenna - what is your take on ice wind farms as a breeder?
    they are very good at being deceptive, if that is the case, when I first found interest in the breed, her site was one of the many that attracted my attention, but the more I learn about the breed and breeders, the more I don't think I could ever give her business - although she does to rescue as well, sometimes she'll take in an adult bred from there and try to re home it.
  • Jenna,
     I am sure you will be relieved to know that most of us on this forum are PRO reputable breeder AND Pro rescue. I know Brandon, Tsukistune, and I all do extensive rescue work (to name a few).

    Personally I have one rescue shiba, a rescue pit, and a breeder shikoku.

     I know this forum is dedicated to  health and  well being of Nihon Ken and  know that there is room in the world for responsible breeder and rescues. In the hopes that perhaps one day there will no longer be a need for rescues.


    All that being said, welcome to the forum!
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2205
    Ohhhh.... "Mame" Shiba... that is the name. Thanx Jenna, I didn't think what I typed was right but I couldn't think of the correct name.

    Anyway... Welcome to the forum Jenna, nice to "see" you here!  :c)

  • jennajenna
    Posts: 154
    tsukitsune: In the interest of being diplomatic, I have a personal policy of not publishing my opinions about specific breeders in public forums. Feel free to drop me an email at jenna at nycshibarescue dot org

    JessicaRabbit: Thank you. :)
    jenna -> founder of nyc shiba rescue, inc.
    snickers -> master of shiba mind control
    jennaandsnickers.com
  • jennajenna
    Posts: 154
    brada1878: thanks. I know you told me about this forum ages ago and somehow I forgot to mosey over and sign up!
    jenna -> founder of nyc shiba rescue, inc.
    snickers -> master of shiba mind control
    jennaandsnickers.com
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 735
    Jenna - Yes I do realize that because I and the others on this forum believe in being pro-rescue and breeders but still doesn't change what I said. I will still be attacked by pro-rescues for purchasing animals from a breeder.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    i respect that Jenna - really I don't need to know, I'm no longer in 'the market' for another permanent pack member but sometimes you just can't tell, you know?
  • jennajenna
    Posts: 154
    okiron: It is true that my points will NOT change the fact that you may be attacked by some rescue people for purchasing animals from breeders. I wasn't addressing that possibility though. What I was referring to was "(besides pro-rescue people who look down upon people who purchase from breeders)" which seemed to me like a generalization of all rescue people. Rereading it now though, I see how it just as easily could have been referring to a subset of rescue people. Forgive me if I misunderstood.

    tsukitsune: You are right... you really can't tell. Breeders' websites can be very deceptive. The best way to learn about any particular breeder is to get references from the NSCA and/or your local Shiba fancier's club and then talk to people that have purchased puppies from them. I know a number of people with Icewinds Shibas and have learned quite a bit about them over the past two years (just in case anyone is interested in a private chat).
    jenna -> founder of nyc shiba rescue, inc.
    snickers -> master of shiba mind control
    jennaandsnickers.com
    Post edited by jenna at 2008-04-29 15:37:36
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2722
    Hi Jenna - Welcome to the forum!
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 735
    Jenna - You did nothing wrong so nothing to forgive :) Yeah it might sound like a generalized statement now that you mention it but no, I only mean rescues who look down upon breeders.
  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    Posts: 1880
    Hi Jenna, welcome to the forum and thanks for being so involved in rescue too!
  • jennajenna
    Posts: 154
    Thanks to everyone for all the welcome messages. :)  I'll do my best to make this one of my regular stops each day.
    jenna -> founder of nyc shiba rescue, inc.
    snickers -> master of shiba mind control
    jennaandsnickers.com
  • this is one of the things what i hate of these "breeders", they just put in their advertising words like "teacup" "mini" "dollar size" for make more money and sell you the dogs like something special.... obviously the mini size dogs are sick or theres something wrong whith their genetic (at least thats what i think) and just take advantage of the poor doggy  :(....
    Post edited by ivanmeza03 at 2008-04-30 11:16:25
  • Luis DiazLuis Diaz
    Posts: 45
    There is this trend going down here in Miami (no surprise one of the trendiest cities in the world)
    From what I heard they get the smallest and weakest of the pups and breed them and do the same with their pups
    until you get smurf-like "wetards"...I hate to sound like that but I think that's what they are by definition of growth
    though it's through their process. I could be wrong and often are. :)

    So theirs lots of Yorkies and those west highland white terriers (Westies) that are impossibly tiny.
    Like a cotton ball with legs and a mouth...loud one sometimes.

    My shiba is like I've mentioned before 33 lbs and he's not overweight at all. Just lots of love.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    well I think by standards my shibas are right on the cut off - Tsuki is 18lbs and Kitsune is creeping up on 19lbs, but he was underweight for his size when we adopted him and he's slowly putting it on - I hope he will be a good 20-25lbs when he's back to his intended size. But compared to the few Shibas we have met personally - I think mine are small!

    There is actually a pet store in my area that has 'miniature pugs' and 'miniature beagles'. Its so sad.

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