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Toby needs to chill....how to help him
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8589
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    Conker doesn't get as crazy as Toby but he does flip out when I put him outside and close the dog or garage door. That thread about him being "bad" was the result of him trying to get back inside.
    I don't know what to do about Conker either, since he's fine with going outside but when he wants to come in and he can't he throws a hissy fit and I don't want him looking for more ways to escape.
    I also want to be able to stick him outside for an hour or two without him flipping, since it's a nice thing to be able to do if like, a repairman comes over or something.

    I'd definitely get his thyroid checked again, just to be sure.
    Instead of PB, you could use frozen ground meat or sardines in a Kong? I do that with Conker and it takes him a bit over an hour to get through it.
    Crazed jumping/scratching... Every time he does it, leave? I dunno about that one.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
  • Post edited by shibamistress at 2011-10-05 17:35:18
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8589
  • AnnaAnna
    Posts: 621
    Or, if a room without a glass door isn't an option, maybe hang a curtain/blanket over the door so he can't see the other dogs? Or a blanket over the crate?
  • SakuSaku
    Posts: 372
  • When I was reading your situation, two things came to mind.

    1 – Maybe the fact that he doesn’t have a nice quiet dark spot to sleep/rest in is adding to his anxiety. Others commented how it is a pretty stimulating environment (he can see outside with all that has to offer and he can see inside and is being kept away from socializing with animals that are being treated with different privileges) and I can agree with them there. Both of my guys actively seek out a dark quiet spot to nap. Luka goes to the spare bed room and rests under the futon and Wickit sleeps underneath a chair in the living room. This accounts for half their day for hours at a time!

    2 – Whatever is being done to correct the behavior isn’t working so he doesn’t understand what is expected from him and what will not be tolerated. I found Shiba’s really need very structured rules, boundaries, and limitations more so than any other dog I have worked with. My guys were both pretty crazy and wild at first and the clicker training and positive training methods were just not working. I started utilizing a 3 tiered approach: step one was a single word that means cut it out, for me it was a stern yet calm “HEY!” If that wasn’t respected, it was followed by a touch, usually my hand shaped like a claw and a quick firm touch to the neck; hard enough for him to feel but not hard enough to hurt, obviously. If neither worked, they were immediately crated. It rarely got to the third step of being crated, but when it did, they behaved like gentleman for at least a good hour after being let out.

    If you are not entirely calm (no angriness or anxiety) when applying these methods, they won’t work either (and will likely backfire), so make sure you are in the right frame of mind if you decide to give these a shot. I stole these ideas from watching too much Dog Whisperer, and am glad I did. They have helped me get past the Shiba Scream, barking too much, food aggression, fighting too rough, eating the house (carpet, couch, paperwork, etc.), and every other issue since they started out far from little angels.

    Keep us posted on your progress and what is working, I’m sure you will figure it out if you stick with it! :)
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Post edited by lindsayt at 2011-10-06 12:38:38
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
  • Lindsayt, Thanks for politely dismissing this training method as a viable option by stating only your theory could be the correct one. That is the key word here…theory. Dogs interact with each other using these methods, and have done so long before humans bred them into being more domesticated, so I disagree with the “theory” that positive training is the correct and ONLY solution especially for a breed that is so primitive and instinctual. Both have their place and should be considered. I invite you to keep an open mind and not shun someone else for giving advice that worked just because you don’t agree with it.
    Post edited by drewrilla at 2011-10-06 12:58:12
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Post edited by Saya at 2011-10-06 13:17:25
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Post edited by lindsayt at 2011-10-06 13:28:25
  • Post edited by sandrat888 at 2011-10-06 13:40:09
  • Post edited by shibamistress at 2011-10-06 13:57:31
  • You are right lindsayt, you didn’t recommend your theory over others you just said mine is wrong. It is like an argument of God versus evolution with you people. Letting emotions tell them it is ok to tell other people how right they are and how wrong the others are. I use several methods, and my comment was merely a suggestion that you felt necessary to tell me I should read on why it is wrong. You were not being polite, you wanted to let me know and everyone else that these methods should not be used. And then quite a self-righteous comment from the next person to say the reason clicker training failed was because I applied the methods incorrectly. Unreal.

    Someone can’t express an opinion that is against your belief system without backlash. People who use all methods and don’t firmly believe one way is best are open to conversation, but god forbid someone recommend something they feel is wrong then duck and cover.

    My methods don’t harm them any more than the way they correct each other, a playful bite warning to let you know what you did was inappropriate. Just because you read a book that said otherwise, doesn’t discredit the other theory.

    Guess what, I have no issues with my dogs and it is because I used techniques you think are wrong.

    If you don’t want advice, then don’t ask. If you don’t agree with the advice offered, offer your own. If you have nothing to contribute to the comment positively, then ignore it.

    You don’t see me bashing all of the breeding talk when I am pro rescue only do you? No. Why? Because people are entitled to their own opinions and I don’t want to be a jerk. You apparently have no problem with this.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    Post edited by curlytails at 2011-10-06 15:07:46
  • AnnaAnna
    Posts: 621
    @shibamistress Is it possible he's got some sort of separation anxiety, now that you're busier?

    For a while my vet was considering putting my cat on anxiety medication, because she was getting so clingy and stressed during preparations for an apartment move (all 4 humans she lived with were constantly in and out, gone for days at a time, stuff was moving around, etc.) and she's a very clingy, needy cat even when not worked up by change. She was crying a lot, pooping outside her litter box constantly, etc.

    Or, if he's suddenly so opposed to any time at all in his room, did something in the room change? Is there possibly some sort of electrical device that might be giving off a noise that is driving him nuts? Or maybe (I hope not for you, but..) bugs in the walls or something?

    Alternately, would adding a radio or something help to distract him/make him feel less alone? Or maybe a baby monitor, so he can hear you guys moving around the house even if he's not out with you?
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8589
  • The semester (or quarter as the case may be) started fairly recently. Though Toby has seen this change in the past, if he's already got stress built up about anything else (the summer trip to Germany perhaps, or the time spent on Oskar's recent post-neutering care) he could just be acting out.

    Violet is very adaptable and generally quite good at dealing with my somewhat chaotic lifestyle and odd living situation. However I do see her act out a bit whenever new people leave/join the household, or if I'm doing an unusually heavy load of work or freelance. Lisa, can you try spending a bit more time with him or possibly bring him into your office every now and again (don't know what the rules are for your department/university)? I found that spending extra time and then easing Violet back into her normal routine during periods of acting out was fairly successful.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
  • AnnaAnna
    Posts: 621
    If it seems to have started when the petsitters were there, I'd definitely lean towards separation anxiety issues (speaking as an as-yet non-dog owner, but an anxious cat owner). When I get back from even just a weekend away, it takes my cat several days to a week to settle back down into a routine. And that's if I come back and get right back into the same schedule I already had. If I come back and am then busy and out late every night, it takes her longer to settle back down.

    Or, I hate to suggest it (especially since I have no idea who they were), but is it possible the petsitters did something to upset him? Like you use absolutely no aversive methods, so I'd assume you'd pick sitters who agree with you, but if he was being difficult maybe someone yelled at him and sent him to his room for punishment and then didn't spend enough time with him, so now he has a grudge against that room or being inside in general? Or is just worked up because people who were not you were in HIS house and you weren't there? (Again, wildly guessing here, since I missed previous posts about Germany, etc., so I have no idea about that situation aside from what was specifically mentioned in this thread)
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
  • emmyemmy
    Posts: 553
    I have no advice....but I'm glad to learn that I'm not the only one with a shiba that can howl and "paddle" for hours. When my pup did it in his crate in the middle of the night, people insisted that I was ignoring some need he was trying to bring to my attention. So I followed their advice and went to the crate, only to discover that his three a.m. "need" was to romp around and play with his toys in the living room. And beg for treats. Needless to say, he doesn't get out for that anymore. (Note that in the past when he has been sick to his stomach and NEEDED to go out, he cried...I will still go check on him if he cries because I know it means he needs something.)

    I hope you sort this issue out....I know it can be really annoying when dogs do something that drives the whole household crazy and you can't figure out why they do it or how to make it stop.
  • @ Shibamistress - if he always gets a bit upset around autumn then I lean more heavily towards the semester/quarter schedule theory. Shibas are odd and sometimes they try to pretend or act as if they don't miss you when they actually do. The other thing is that as dog owners we sometimes get complacent with their behavior, especially when they seem ok with things. It's possible that this yearly schedule change has always bugged him a bit and he may have figured that if you were too clueless to pick up on his subtle expressions that he should take it to the next level.
  • McYogiMcYogi
    Posts: 518
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    Hmm... you could always get a shirt you don't like, hack it apart, and re-sew it to fit Toby? The other day I saw a guy with a Pit Bull wearing a Led Zeppelin shirt that the dude had modded to fit the dog. It wasn't the best sew job on earth but it looked fine and he did a good job making it fit the dog.
    Or you could trace your Thundershirt onto some fabric, or a t-shirt, and make the pattern bigger and make one of those?
    Post edited by Losech at 2011-10-07 23:33:20
  • bobc33bobc33
    Posts: 287
    Shibamistress,

    My heart goes out to you, and I always think how lucky your dogs are to have ended up with you as an owner. After having Scout for almost three, and Shadow almost two years and finally seeing their behaviors (for the most part) improve, it is a joy that I appreciate more than the "normal" dogs in a family situation. Having the tough times makes me appreciate the good times so much more, and I pray more of the good times come your way.
  • McYogiMcYogi
    Posts: 518
  • inubakainubaka
    Posts: 174
  • McYogiMcYogi
    Posts: 518
  • vnovikovavnovikova
    Posts: 532
    I don't know if this would be any help, but we noticed that Nami calmed down substantially when she was in season and we put a home-made diaper on her (boy's underwear turned upside down, allowing the tail to come out of the hole). She curled into a ball and slept for hours.
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8589

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