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Strange Looking Shiba for Rescue
  • BritigerxBritigerx
    Posts: 140
    So I was just looking at the ASPCA website for dogs and this dog came up as a shiba inu.

    http://2067-aspca-1.adopt.dogtime.com/animals/3096872?as=4e3d569d9a6ef052a200001e

    I have no clue as to what type of dog that even looks like since she looks weird.. I know they said she has a skin problem but I've never seen a dog that looked like that before..
  • tanaisetanaise
    Posts: 23
    Oh, poor angel. I think she just made my heart break. Sadly VA is too far away, i hope she finds someone nearby. It is a shiba, not even a mix from the looks of her. She's just lost most of her fur, which really makes dogs look odd. My childhood scottie had allergies (fleas and possibly something food related, now that i think about it) and she spent most of the time looking like a small rhinoceros
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
    Looks pure shiba to me just really mangy, you can even see the urajiro if you look closely enough. Doesn't matter if this pup is purebred or not, this girl needed help and I'm glad she's getting it.
    image
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    This is why it frustrates me when people blow off the connection between Shibas and dermal issues. Or ANY dog and dermal issues, really. It may not sound like much to say that this or that breed is prone to "allergies," but I've heard of far too many Shibas who were given up because their families just could not deal with the skin problems anymore. It does get that bad... though I would've persisted for a lot longer than 10 months, especially considering this dog had been part of the family for over 7 years! It sounds like things might have snowballed in this case. I'm guessing this did not START as a "deeply rooted fungal infection" ...

    Whomever adopts this sweetie is going to have the satisfaction of being witness to her dramatic improvement. Dogs that look like this CAN return to looking "normal" -- and it's completely worth it. Takes time and patience and of course, a proper diagnosis. I'm glad that their vet was able to do something more appropriate for her than the mess it sounds like she's been through.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • BritigerxBritigerx
    Posts: 140
    I hope someone will rescue her. I don't understand why someone would keep a dog for 7 years and then give her up due to skin problems. ;/ Is this what a normal dog looks like with really bad skin allergies?
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I remember seeing a B&T shiba that had mange or some type of skin problem poor thing looked so horrible, but each update the rescue put up the dog looked better and better slowly got the fur back and looked good.

    I hope this dog gets a loving home that will not give up so easily.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    This is what a normal dog with skin allergies that has been untreated or not properly treated for a long time might look like, yes. It sounds like the vets are also to blame in this scenario. It's really sad all around.

    Why would someone give up on a dog they'd had for 7 years? I don't know how anyone could do that with a clean conscience. A lady on the street once approached me when I was out with Bowdu and spoke of how she gave up her 8-year-old Shiba because he developed "untreatable" "hot spots." She said her Shiba started losing his hair, and because she always brought him along to her office, his condition started to disturb her clients, so she gave him up. She didn't mention her profession or where she gave him up... but that anecdote was the first I heard, and one that will always haunt me.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
    Post edited by curlytails at 2011-08-06 12:49:59
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Wow that Lady you met sound sounds scary such sad reason to give up a dog.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Ugh! That picture is heart breaking!!! I just can't imagine ever letting my dog get to that point much less thinking of euthanizing her because of it. I don't know how people can sleep at night that do stuff like this.
  • catloreecatloree
    Posts: 1541
    Poor baby, this is so sad :-( I hope she finds a good home.
    Catherine (human), Elwood (Shiba), & Sadie (Pomeranian)
  • emmyemmy
    Posts: 553
    Hmmm....it does look like a shiba. Kind of a unique opportunity to see body structure without fur.... This is unbelievably sad, but it sounds like this dog is very lucky that good people took her in. Hopefully she will find a permanent home soon....she sounds like she has a great personality and is well-behaved.
  • aykayk
    Posts: 121
    Just curious, at what point would you say that a person "tried hard enough" to resolve a medical issue before deciding to euthanize a dog? Is it time dependent? Money dependent?
  • inubakainubaka
    Posts: 174
    @ayk - in my experience, it's completely dependent on convenience (be it time or money).

    there is a dachsund at the local rescue right now - purebred - 10yrs old. She has chronic ear infections and her owner gave her up.
    Seriously... how hard is it to consistently apply drops? Or antibioics?

    I continue to be amazed at how shallow human limitation is.
    volunteers4paws.wordpress.com
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    @ayk, that's not exactly a fair question because what is "enough" will differ for each individual in different circumstances. I can't even judge whether this family that gave up this listed shiba tried hard "enough" because I don't know what they've been through. Maybe their multiple vets not only misdiagnosed but overcharged, and they had a sudden death or two in the family and are facing an eviction notice. I don't know.

    But I DO wave a witchy little finger of blame, I suppose, when I say I don't know how someone can give up a pet they've had for the pet's whole life with a clean conscience. No matter how reluctant or justified the decision, it will follow them for a good long time. Just like the lady who felt compelled to talk to a perfect stranger about her pet's skin issues that led her to give up her dog.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • i dunno... it seems pretty harsh to euthanize a dog for a condition that is not painful or will eventually lead to death.
    ninjarf21.tumblr.com
  • PupChowPupChow
    Posts: 100
    Thank you for posting this and spreading the words. Mac's Action Adventure Stories
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
    "it seems pretty harsh to euthanize a dog for a condition that is not painful or will eventually lead to death"

    For all we know, and what it looks like, that condition could be very uncomfortable to live with. The dog could be miserable, and thinking that there was no cure after going through 2 vets, the past owners could have had the best interest of the dog in mind. Would you want to go through live with a constant itch all over your body, going bald, and doctors telling you they can't figure out what's wrong and can't cure you? The past owners could have felt that it wasn't fair to let their dog continue to suffer, that they thought euthanasia was the best way. They cared enough about the dog to give it another chance through rescue, some people have declined to let their dogs go to rescue and just euthanized it.
    image
  • aykayk
    Posts: 121
    I'm glad that people are seeing that there could be some grey areas here.

    A couple weeks ago, I received a voice message asking to take back a rescue dog that was placed 7 years ago. The owner wanted to do something else and she couldn't do it with a dog. The dog was 8+ years old and had very little chances of being adopted out for this breed. So basically, this will end up being a sanctuary dog, which pushes me closer to my dog limit, which would force me to drop a dog from my import plans which were years in the making. So yeah, I was angry at that owner that I would have to sacrifice my dreams for hers.

    Two weeks later though, I learned more about what the owner is going through, and things have turned from a sanctuary situation to a boarding situation. Once that owner gets back on her feet, she'll take back the dog.
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1814
    I don't know the whys or whats but the issue had to be going on for quite a long time to develop to what you see. It has to be horrible to live like that. I know allergies are miserable for this breed and dermal issues can lead to a lot of pain. I can only assume the owners were ignorant in knowing how to deal with it or lacked the knowledge where to turn to get better help. Most often lack of treatment is due to cost issues. However, people don't realize once there is a treatment plan under way a dog can be stabilized before it gets to the point of what you see in this picture. I hope this dog has the opportunity to have a higher quality of life once better medical treatment is initiated. I would love to see how she progresses.

    Snf
    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2011-08-07 15:47:28
  • that is absolutely heartbreaking....
  • PupChowPupChow
    Posts: 100
    A bit of a sad update from the rescue, FYI:

    -----

    Hello, and thank you for your unquiry about Kimba. I need to make some changes to her webpage. She was mis-diagnosed on the fungal infection and has a rare auto-immune dis-order called Pemphigus Folacias. It is triggered by vaccination or over vaccination and there is no Western medical cure for this. The only thing a vet can do is try to manage it with anti-biotics and large doses of steroids. She has gone undiagnosed for over a year now and has received more vaccines after contracting this dis-order. We are trying an Eastern medical approach with a raw diet and natural supplements and immune moderators. We are hoping to save Kimba but the statistics are grim. At this time we do not know if she will ever be able to go up for adoption. Please send positive thoughts her way, she is a great little dog. Mac's Action Adventure Stories
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    That's sad to read. =(

    I hope the raw diet and stuff helps.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1814
    Thanks for the update. Wow, now that is just scary in terms of the breed as a whole..... I wonder what the statistics are for the dog population in general and if it is genetic in terms of auto-immune disorder. I hope they can help her out.

    Snf
    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2011-08-10 18:30:25
  • aykayk
    Posts: 121
    How similar is Pemphigus Folacias to Pemphigus Erythematosus? Here's a journal article about using tacrolimus in treating pemphigus erythematosus. Tacrolimis is also good for discoid lupus.

    Bhang DH, Choi US, Jung YC, Kim MK, Choi EW, Seo KW, Kang MS, Hwang CY, Kim DY, Youn HY, Lee CW. Topical 0.03% tacrolimus for treatment of pemphigus erythematosus in a Korea Jindo dog. J Vet Med Sci. 2008 Apr;70(4):415-7.

    ABSTRACT: Topical 0.03% tacrolimus was used for treatment of a Korea Jindo dog diagnosed with pemphigus erythematosus. The dog was slowly improved following application of tacrolimus but did not achieve complete remission until end of this study. No adverse effects on clinical or laboratory parameters were noted during the topical tacrolimus therapy period.
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1814
    to add to ayk's post.....Here is more info with pictures etc to get a better understanding if in fact this is what the poor dog has (edit: apparently there are several types as mentioned in further discussions below .

    (discusses one type)
    http://www.jaaha.org/cgi/content/full/40/1/29

    (general overview of the three types of pemphigus)
    http://akitaclub.org/health/health/pemphigus1.html

    Snf
    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2011-08-11 10:36:26
  • aykayk
    Posts: 121
    Here's another article about how Promeris, a flea and tick preventative, had caused pemphigus foliaceus:

    http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/vet-breaking-news/2011/04/18/study-links-promeris-to-pemphigus-foliaceus-pfizer-stopping-its-production.aspx
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
    This information may be worth sending to the rescue instead of just posting it on the forum
    image
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    I sent Ring Dog Rescue a link to this discussion.

    And I don't know what else to say about this heartbreaking diagnosis, but if anyone DOES have useful information to share, please write to them directly.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • INU RYUUINU RYUU
    Posts: 1507
    @ayk

    The word pemphigus is used for the entire group of autoimmune blistering diseases in which intraepidermal separation occurs via acantholysis. Pemphigus foliaceus is a specific type of superficial pemphigus and is clinically distinct from deep pemphigus diseases. Another example of superficial pemphigus disease is pemphigus erythematosus. Examples of deep pemphigus diseases include paraneoplastic pemphigus, pemphigus vulgaris, and bullous pemphigoids disease is pemphigus erythematosus. Examples of deep pemphigus diseases include paraneoplastic pemphigus, pemphigus vulgaris, and bullous pemphigoid.

    heres a link to the article the definition came from. Its very thorough.

    http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/653149
    犬竜
    Post edited by INU RYUU at 2011-08-10 21:34:08
  • aykayk
    Posts: 121
    @INU RYUU

    Thanks for the article. Cleared up many of my questions. I've encountered several rescued Jindos that have had discoid lupus or pemphigus erythematosus. I also have a friend who owns an Akita that started showing signs of pemphigus foliaceus. She mentioned that it started after her dog had a fight with another dog, so I'm wondering if an antibiotic for skin wounds was the trigger for her dog.
  • ncieloncielo
    Posts: 267
    It's a shiba definitely its just a bad case of mange that made her look so foreign. We get really bad dogs here, or not as much any more but used to, many dogs on the street with mange so I've seen them pretty bad. The poor thing, if Niko was ever to get sick to a certain extend I would not get rid of him due to inability to pay, that's my child.
  • PupChowPupChow
    Posts: 100
    Thank you for all the information and sending the link to the rescue, hopefully some of the information here will be of help to Kimba! Mac's Action Adventure Stories
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1814
    ayk: I can't recall, was it Promeris inject. that was pulled off the market? Topical appears to be still available. I have no idea if the product continues to have the same pesticide ingredient.... Good thing to be aware of though.

    Did the links in fact get sent to the rescue that is fostering??

    Snf
    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2011-08-11 10:46:16
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    @Snf, I e-mailed ringdog@ringdogrescue.org with a direct link to this whole thread since the information was all being collected here, and there was more being added at the time I wrote. Obviously their vets who are able to assess the situation at hand are their closest ally, but if any of this information can be useful to provide other options based on your collective experiences, I hope it can help give some perspective.

    At the very least, I hope they know that we've got a group of folks here who are rooting for Kimba and are willing to network in any way we can if it will help. Thanks Britigerx to bringing her to our attention.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1814
    Thanks Curlytails! : ) I am glad they got her to a vet for a eval.

    Wishing Kimba the best
    Snf
  • Poor dog! This conversation does make me think, though, of how hard it is to know what is going on without being an insider, and I think the discussion on that was on target. While I too, am impatient--even angry--with people who too easily give up their dogs, sometimes thinks that look black and white are in fact shades of grey. Sounds like that with this girl. Prednisone is a nasty drug, and a lifetime of it could be agonizing for a dog. I could also see how someone might come to the end of their ability to pay for treatments that aren't working.

    I'm sorry, though, that this girl will not be able to be adopted, but she is lucky that there was a place for her to go, and I hope they are able to find a solution for her that will make her life more bearable. For me, I'd be hard pressed to make the decision on a dog like this--it could be that euthanasia might be the kindest thing if they can't find something to make her more comfortable.

    I'll hope for the best for this poor dog.

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