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Before and after RAW
  • SakuSaku
    Posts: 372
    Hi all,

    So I've heard mostly good and some bad about feeding dogs raw. For those who feed their shiba raw, can you please describe what are the positive changes to your buddy? e.g. more shining coat, better breath, optimal weight? When people say "better health", what are the indication?

    I've been feeding Saku Orijin puppy food...and about 50% of time, he has soft poop. I don't think it's a good indication and am thinking what I can do to improve his diet.

    I haven't made of my mind feeding him raw, mainly because...it's kinda gross me out (sorry...), and I don't know how much to feed him and how to switch to raw?

    Should I switch with partial raw and partial dry kibbles? But I read somewhere that mixing raw with kibble is very bad to dog's digestive system. Is it true?

    Please share your thoughts! Appreciate it!Saku & Mina's mom
  • jujeejujee
    Posts: 882
    If you type in "raw" in the search function tons of topics come up about raw feeding :)
    I want to add that orijen changed their puppy formula and it can be too rich for some pups to handle.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Orijen puppy and adult foods are nice kibble, but some dogs can be too rich they also have acana which is made by same company, but less protein not really sure on it if it has a puppy formula.

    This link has a lot of info and links to info to read
    http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet/thread/431875

    This link has a spreadsheet that can be helpful finding out how much meat and organ to feed.
    http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet/thread/491589

    Saya has been on raw for two years she started at 8months.

    The diet takes a lot of research and at first it's a bit of work, but I find it pretty easy to feed now.

    Saya has been pretty healthy on kibble she was on wellness core ocean, but while on wellness puppy and core ocean she reversed sneezed during meals and at night.

    When she started raw she still reversed sneezed, but month after she did it less and less and then every so often, and now she does do it once in a blue moon not enough for me to remember the last time she has done it.

    Saya's coat is about the same only improvement I guess is her breath doesn't stink too bad. She also gets wet and doesn't stink bad like Bella our boxer does.

    Some say mixing raw and kibble is bad some say it's OK, but you could feed kibble for breakfast and then raw for dinner?

    I do that with Bella our 55lb boxer she gets a chicken quarter as a meal instead of kibble as dinner she does fine.

    I'd start out with just chicken, like a breast, thigh, drumstick, or quarter.

    If you feed a quarter you'll have to take away once he eats the right amount for his meal.

    I do that by weighing before I give it to her on the kitchen scale and after I think she ate the right amount.

    How old is Saku again? If still a puppy feeding a bit more like 2.5% is good or maybe 3% you can always decrease or increase if need be. Too much food can cause loose poop too so can being new to raw, but once he gets used to it should be OK.

    Guideline I follow is 80% meat/ 10% bone/ 5% liver/ 5% other organ like kidney, pancreas, thymus etc.

    Some dogs might need a bit more bone some don't.

    When starting out feeding just chicken is best and after a few weeks if he does well you can add little bit of a different protein with the chicken meal just a little bit and increase it as he gets used to if he gets loose poop go back to just chicken for a day and maybe next time take off skin of the chicken while introducing new protein.

    When doing organs go extra slow.

    Be sure to get un enhanced meat it'll say on front or in nutrition box. Like %of solution added or anything above 90% sodium is too high.

    When starting out it might be a good idea to take some skin off till he's used to chicken.

    You might have to hold it for a few days or he might take to it.

    Raw is higher valued item so maybe holding it will help some with showing it your giving it to him not taking it away.

    Working on trading is good can do it by having a piece of boneless chicken or piece of chicken heart or gizzard and putting it a bit away so he has to leave his meal to get it.

    I think that might be how trading works.

    Saya doesn't mind me around or handling her food, but some dogs it can increase resource guarding with their food hand feeding can help with it.

    Bella my parent's boxer is a bit of a resource guarder with her food, but after a few meals she got better, but still not sure. She know eats fine and if I ask her to drop it she'll drop the quarter.

    feeding frozen or holding it can help with gulpers or feeding big can help too.

    Before Saya was switched to raw I'd give her raw eggs with her kibble and once week she got lamb ribs before bed.

    One thing don't feed raw eggs till your dog is used to raw eggs can be rich for dogs when not used to it. I usually just give Saya a egg a week she likes it.

    Anymore questions let us know.

    If you don't want to feed raw full time you could always do it as a dinner or three times a week two etc.. Bella gets quarter and a bit of boneless or liver or kidney with the quarter three times a week.
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Positive changes in my dogs:

    Clean teeth, firmer stools, great breath, great coat

    I feed a mix of home made raw, premade raw Darwins and Primal, Honest Kitchen, Acana, Evangers and various canned foods (not all mixed together). I prefer eggs, necks, drums, thighs and whole meat chunks when offering raw as they are easier for me to handle. The premades have organ in them so I don't really do much organ aside from liver and tripe.

    Premade raw for one meal and kibble for the next will probably be easier for you if you are just starting out. I believe dogs receive the same benefits of raw even if they only eat it a few times a week. I would stick with a grain free kibble however if you are going back and forth.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    Conker didn't do good on Orijen puppy. My guess is it was too rich for him. I've also concluded that he has intolerances to cooked chicken and potatoes, both are in Orijen Puppy. As much as I liked that food, it just didn't work out for him. He was also refusing to eat it, so I switched him to raw.

    So far the changed are:
    Stopped itching, clean teeth, great coat, no smell or bad breath, good poops (if he doesn't steal stuff), better energy and he never refuses a meal now.

    I didn't want to play the game of "find the right kibble" with Conker and end up spending a ton of money until I found one that worked for him so I skipped that step and just did the raw thing. If he could handle cooked chicken and potatoes I'd probably have just switched him to Acana.
  • AWE46M3AWE46M3
    Posts: 357
    I've been doing about 50% raw, Wellness puppy in the AM/afternoon and raw at night. I've noticed that he seems more energetic, coat seems softer (maybe shinier?), and breathe seems a little better. I must admit though, I don't make it a point to check his breathe from day-to-day... hha
  • SakuSaku
    Posts: 372
    Thank you for the advices! I will definitely consider feeding Saku raw. So far he hasn't had any food-related allergies and he seems not too picky about his food. I need to look up more information before I start!Saku & Mina's mom
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Oh yeah I forgot smaller poop is one of my favorite things and flies don't seem to be attracted to it compared to kibble poop.. Gross I know.. lol

    Even when Bella gets a chicken quarter with some boneless or organ her poop is more smaller.
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • cjcbcjcb
    Posts: 109
    Thanks for sharing this info. I wanted to get an idea as to when you guys switched your dog to raw? @Saya, I read 8 months.

    Tochi is 3 months eating Acana (Wild Prairie) and will rotate him to Pacifica in a few weeks. However, ultimately, we want to feed him raw.
    Tochi Satake | Red Shiba Inu | DOB: 10/15/2011 | Miami, FL
    http://tochitheshiba.tumblr.com/
  • cmed24cmed24
    Posts: 75
    Orijen and Acana caused Kuma to have soft poops and lots of gas, we think its too much protein. He has been eating TOTW and is doing much better, although teh kibble is a bit bigger than he would like. we mix it with Nutro wet food, he likes the pate wet foods not the chunky stew like ones.
  • InoushiInoushi
    Posts: 555
    How about people living in a city? Here in nyc there isn't a lot of acess to varied meat sources and cuts. Not to mention a lot of the affordable meats are enhanced.
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    I find it hard to believe that you can't find a variety of meat in Chinatown!
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • I buy a lot of my meat for my dogs at the grocery store. I do order chicken necks/backs from a butcher, but that's it, so I'm pretty sure such meat is available in most places.

    I started the raw diet 11 years ago for my GSD (now passed on) who had serious allergies to grains and we couldn't figure out what to feed him. Up til that point, he had hot spots, ear infections, itchy paws that he chewed on, and an oily coat. He had an odd fishy smell about him all the time. So we switched to raw, and immediately his odor went away, and his coat got more plush and not so oily. His hot spots and ear infections went away. This has been typical of the kind of reaction I've seen with other dogs too--the biggest improvement is in odor (they don't have a strong odor anymore) and the quality of their coat. When I have had to feed my dogs kibble at the kennel--even good quality kibble--I notice a difference in how they smell.

    Also, my vet always remarks on how clean their teeth are. Even when Kai was 10, his teeth were in decent shape and didn't need cleaning.

    There is much less poop to pick up and it is firm so easier to pick up.

    Also, re: age. My GSD switched over at about a year old, but that was only because I didn't know about the raw diet before that. I fed my male Shiba raw from the day I got him at 7 weeks of age (and he never had any problems handling chicken wings which is what we started with). My other Shiba I also switched over as soon as I got her at 4 months. My Akita pup was a bit different--he didn't seem to be able to handle the raw food--he couldn't chew it at first, and it also seemed too rich for him, so we fed him grain free kibble until he was able to eat raw chicken at about 6 months old. Now he eats all raw.

    My best friend has a GSD who was weaned to raw. His parents were raw fed too. He's an incredibly healthy dog with a lush coat.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    There's a shiba breeder who feeds raw dunno if they wean their pups on it or not..

    I know of a Carolina dog breeder who weans the pups to raw their first meal was raw green tripe.

    I switched Saya at 8months because of her spinal issues and I felt the diet was best for her..

    She transitioned well was a bit picky for the first week with chicken and then when introduced to kidney she wasn't a fan, but I kept offering small frozen bits of it now she loves it frozen or thawed.

    hare-today.com is located in PA area I believe.. China town should have good variety of meat and organs. Saya loves duck, lamb, quail and so on. The Asian market is where I get good bit of fish. Saury and mackerel yummy.

    I would've done it when I first gotten Saya, but still wasn't sure and needed to convince my mom.. I guess it didn't matter since she was my dog and my money..

    She has been on raw for two soon to be three years and I'll never go back if need be I'll home cook for her.

    My past dogs were mostly fed one brand of kibble their life and I dunno that has left a lasting effect on me.. I love variety raw or home cooking provides.. Raw much easier then home cooking since I don't need to cook it except when I cook meat, liver for treats.

    Saya has had mucous in her poop on first week, but next day she was fine and she also had bone shards in her poop, but once she adjusted to raw she did fine.

    She also had watery poop a lot of people call it rocket butt.. I believe it happened when she ate too much kibble or dog biscuits during her first few weeks on raw.

    She also had watery poop when I gave her too much squid I gave her a meal of chicken drumstick and then next day gave her a really small piece of squid eventually she got used to it I rushed it too quickly.

    She has never had bad poop where she did it in the house she always held it enough till she got to go outside. She did poop in her crate once it was loose, but she was on kibble at that time no raw..

    This guide might be helpful it's more for prey model raw, but if you want to do barf route that's fine.. I think it'd be better to get dog used to raw first before trying to cook and puree fruits and veggies.. I dunno much on barf so can't really help Saya hates most veggies and only takes small bits cooked as treat, but never eats much.
    http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/

    I think giving raw pork ribs, lamb ribs, or chicken quarters, thigh, breast with no skin or whatever is a good thing to do gives variety.

    A chicken quarter is two days food pretty much or in my case I let Saya eat the whole quarter and then next day she gets a small meal not all dogs do good with a fast or small meal like that I wouldn't do it with a puppy or dog not used to it..

    Make sure meat is not enhanced by a broth, sodium or brine..

    Also take skin off chicken to make it more bland and slowly keep little bit of skin till the dog can take all the skin.

    Don't rush into variety too quickly and if you give liver, kidney, heart, gizzards, or tongue be sure to transition to it very slow organs are rich even muscle meat organs they're kinda the multivitamin for dogs..

    Saya gets 2.24oz of liver and 2.24 oz of either kidney, thymus, and pancreas I rotate which she gets. I hope to once I get my own freezer to try something where she gets a little of each kidney thymus and pancreas so it all weighs 2.24oz or so..

    Saya gets her full weeks amount of organs once a week, but for a dog new to raw it's best to give small amounts and if your new to raw organs shouldn't be added till they're used to raw chicken with skin on.

    Using a scale helps to figure out how much to give..

    this thread is useful to read. The spreadsheet on it doesn't work anymore I don't think some reason it won't download for some people so if you want it you can email me..
    http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet/thread/431875

    Lew Olsen has a book on raw diet I don't have it so dunno if it's good.

    Karen Becker has some info on raw, book and articles and video on it. I got one of her DVDs and I enjoyed it.

    Anymore questions let me know you can always do what I did give raw egg once week and then give raw pork rib, lamb ribs, or chicken thigh, drumstick.. Lamb ribs or chicken items are pretty soft. Saya did fine with lamb ribs..
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    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • vnovikovavnovikova
    Posts: 532
    Our puppy was weaned to raw by our breeder and never had any issues with it. She get kibble as treats only or when she is visiting with grandparents.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Saya loves kibble for training. haha

    Turkey neck outside
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    Breaking open the egg I kept telling her to bite it, but she thought hitting it was best way. lol Kudo chop!
    her look on her face was funny she kept her paw up because it had egg on it, but she ate all the egg fine.. I cleaned her eggy paw with washcloth with mix of water and vinegar.
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    Whole chicken time! I got it for 98cents lb and instead of cutting it up I left it whole Saya loves it. She ate the whole quarter and didn't want anymore..
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    Saya eating a whole grass fed lamb heart! Her tummy is tough she can handle meal of heart like that no issue even without bone in item.

    I wouldn't recommend a dog new to raw to eat this much too much rich stuff at once..

    it weighed about 6oz I think. She loved it.
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    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • @Inoushi - check out some of the green markets. A lot of farmers have chicken backs, feet, and organ meat from various animals for much cheaper than their normal prices. Organs cost the most at $3.00/lb. Also if you say what parts (not normally or easily used in cooking) you would be interested in purchasing you can get them pretty affordably even if it's not listed on their board. If you develop relationship with a particular farmer/s I've found that they set aside bits for you or sometimes just give you things. Most are pretty nice and given the stringent NYC market rules, the guys at the stand have to work at the farm.
    Post edited by violet_in_seville at 2012-01-12 15:20:43
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    meat processor I got one that sells spices, meat, cheese, and summer sausage and they have organs like tongue, heart, and liver for decent price.

    Butchers, Asian markets, Mexican market..? Walmart has beef liver, chicken gizzards beef cheek meat, chicken parts beef tongue.. cornish hens are fun to feed..
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    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • InoushiInoushi
    Posts: 555
    @violet_in_seville Thanks for the info! I totally overlooked the green markets. Switching kenny to raw is something I have been wanting to do for a long time. He has been doing fine on his kibble, but I prefer feeding him a less processed diet.
    Anyone have any books they reccomend?
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    For ferrets I dunno I know there's some raw feeders on dogster raw forum which feeds their dogs and ferrets raw..

    Karen becker has a book on raw I believe.

    Lew Olson has a book out about raw too she has rottweilers too I listened to her talk on internet once was pretty decent haven't gotten the book yet.

    I dunno any book that is specific about ferrets, but maybe a ferret forum might have some members who feed theirs raw.

    Saya had ground beef, caned salmon, little bit of caned oysters and a beef rib. She only ate half of the ground beef mix so she'll get it tomorrow..

    She loved the beef rib been feeding raw for two soon to be three years and never given beef ribs before. I'm glad I waited she really worked on it, but never bite on it to crunch the bone she just tore of the meat and stuff.
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    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • Alyssa L.Alyssa L.
    Posts: 149
    hi saya where do you buy your raw foods from? nanook is on a diet but he is trimming down, he only eats taste of the wild kibble and salmon jerky treats and other holistic treats, i owuld like to treat him to an occasional raw meaty frozen bone/ meat here and their or give it to him as a lunch meal or for dinner so can you tell me where you get your raw frozen stuff from?
  • inupamuinupamu
    Posts: 38
    I really want to start a raw diet for both my dogs, but I'm really concerned about the financial portion of it. Anyone have an estimate to how much they buy and the prices?
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    I live in a small townish thing in the mountains, so I have to buy everything locally. Shipping is a pain in the wallet for frozen goods so I don't bother.

    I get my meat from the grocery store, and if I can find a butcher or farmer who will sell me stuff at cheaper I'll go with them. I spend no more than:
    .89 cents a pound for chicken
    $1.69 a pound for pork
    $1.99 a pound for beef
    $.89 cents a pound for turkey

    I will spend more on things like liver (required), heart, gizzard, eggs, etc. since a little bit goes a long way. I also buy sardines at no more than $1.19 per tin. I prefer cheaper but that's hard to get these days.

    I spend roughly $20-30 a month to feed Conker this way, that includes The Honest Kitchen which right now comprises about half of his diet, and supplements like salmon oil and vitamin E.
    The amount you spend per month depends on what your local meat prices are, how much your dog eats and how much you are willing to spend. but my price list is a pretty good guideline to try to stick close to. I usually hold off on buying something until it's on sale, then I buy a lot of it and freeze what I'm not going to use right away.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    "give it to him as a lunch meal or for dinner so can you tell me where you get your raw frozen stuff from? "
    I get my raw from butcher they usually sell lamb hearts, kidneys, lamb, beef, chicken liver, and sometimes good deal on lamb ribs or I get them for treat Saya loves lamb ribs.

    Meat processor I mainly get beef heart, tongue, and once year beef thymus I buy like 5lb of thymus and it lasts Saya for year and half pretty much I feed it as other organ she also gets kidney so she gets it in rotation. I sometimes get pancreas which is other organs so I rotate the three.. heart and tongue is like $1.60 lb maybe more and thymus is $1 something lb

    The meat processor does sell beef scraps for $1lb haven't had freezer space to make it worth it..

    Local farmer's market I get beef, pork, lamb heart, beef, pork, lamb tongue, beef, pork, lamb liver, and sometimes lamb kidney and lamb testee lamb testee is other organ gross I know.. What a raw feeder does to make her dog happy.. Saya loves them she loves anything actually.. stuff from farmer's market is grass fed and free ranged so bit higher priced. I sometimes get grass fed ground lamb, ground beef, beef stew meat, or bison roasts..

    I get these for about $2lb sometimes they cut me a break and give me some free..

    I go to a local farmer who has free ranged chickens, turkey, and pig's I bought chicken feet for $1lb from her and she gave me bag of chicken necks free.. I plan to buy some chicken heads from her this spring again gross, but if your trying feed a dog natural diet they do eat head of their animals.. brain and eyes have good nutrients brain is also an other organ I believe.

    Dunno what heads going cost me hope free or cheap since she normally tosses them for compost.

    I also get stuff from local groceries like meijer, Marsh, Payless, and walmart. I wait for deals on things so I can stock up on items.. whole chicken 98cents lb, quarters 69cents lb sometimes most times 99cents lb or 89cents lb..

    Pork shoulder roast 88cents lb.. I bought a 9lb pork shoulder roast has skin on it's lasting Saya long time she gets a work out chewing on the skin and stuff once she gets to the bone she can grind some of the bone and work on getting meat off of it..

    beef is usually always $3lb or 2.99lb so I don't usually get much deals on them maybe 1.99lb on ground beef..

    I sometimes splurge get something like beef cheek meat from walmart since it's something different..

    I used keep track, but with farmer's market it's hard since I don't get receipt from them..

    If raw diet works out for you chest freezer will help you save a ton it might turn out cheaper then kibble!

    I've gotten free deer, pork and beef and a whole turkey once with a ad I posted on craigslist I asked for any freezer burned or unwanted meat only meat I threw out was a seasoned sausage rest was fine 10lb free meat plus turkey. I cooked the turkey and cut the meat into training treats since it was enhanced..

    Try to steer clear of enhanced meats because the extra sodium might cause loose poop and for a dog new to raw loose poop might happen anyways..

    Try to take all skin off chicken items and if you give pork or beef keep fat trim till the dog is used to it. introduce one protein at a time slowly get them used to it and slowly add in different protein it might take four weeks on one protein before ready for something else..

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    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    These two links are useful for new raw feeders.
    http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/

    http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet/thread/431875

    Saya eating Canadian goose back few months ago. She got egg, few caned oysters, few raspberries crushed and tiny bit of banana crushed, and her cranimal vibe for breakfast and the rest of the goose back for dinner yummy.

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    Here's a meal of egg and cranimal mixed up for breakfast and and beef heart and chicken foot for dinner.
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    Lamb neck from butcher
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    Portion of beef tongue about 4 or 6 oz of it hard to tell..
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    raw smelt yummy
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    Saya's order from hare today! Spoiled dog. She got a bag of quail, beef, pancreas, raw beef tripe, beef gullet, beef lung, ground meat/bone/organ mixes of duck, mutton, and goat.
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    Walmart has raw smelt in fish area at least mine do it's frozen.

    Depends on dogs if they're gulper feed bigger items maybe feed it semi frozen so it's bit harder and takes more time to eat? I'm lucky both dogs eat pretty nicely. Saya can't have boneless or organs thawed unless it's a roast or something big she swallows organs or boneless pretty quickly.. Which I guess is normal, but I prefer her to eat at slower rate.

    Bone in items she is good about crunching things up.

    Be careful with weight bearing bones of mammals some are too thick and hard and can crack tooth if the dog tries to break the bone up.. Grinding is better I think..

    Only beef bones Saya has had have been beef ox tails the big kind. Saya is able to grind it completely sometimes she can't and only can grind half so I just toss other half in trash.

    I did buy a thing of beef ribs gave one rib to Saya for bone in meal and she did OK. There was a bit of bone seemed to be a type joint bone or some type attachment and was able to grind that little bone and then she tore all the meat off the ribs and was able to grind tiny bit of the rib. After that I tossed it once meat was all gone.

    Starting on chicken is best thing easy to take skin off to control fat and keep bit in as the dog gets used to it. if dog is allergic to chicken can start on lamb, pork just fine Saya handles pork ribs, pork feet, pork shoulder bone, and lamb ribs fine she also handles lamb neck fine. Consider your dog's size make sure the item isn't gulp able.

    Quarters make good starting points for bigger dogs.

    Bella gets raw for meal two or four times a week and when she was new to it she always got chicken quarters I'd then add bit of chicken gizzards and chicken hearts once she was used to quarters. Then added tiny bit of beef heart with meals, boneless pork then bone in pork etc.

    Now Bella gets rotation of bone in pork, chicken quarters, breast, back, beef heart, beef tongue, turkey liver and now kidney two to four times a week depends.

    Bella who is 55lb or so handles small items like chicken necks, chicken wings and lamb necks fine, but some don't so be sure to be careful.

    Be sure to watch as dog eats just in case especially when new to raw diet things can happen.

    Saya will be raw fed for three years soon need check receipt for the first purchase of chicken thighs and drumsticks..

    Giving a probiotic might help with the transition some use ark natural gentle digest never used it myself so dunno.

    Saya took to raw pretty well digestive wise did have some mucous in her poop, but it cleared uo when she got used to the diet.. She also had bone shards too, but now it's digested into white powder better sometimes it's bit bigger pieces, but not too bad.

    She also had tiny bit of blood on her poop from irritation of new food items, smaller poop I dunno it cleared up after she got used to the diet..

    Right now I share chest freezer with my parent's if I had my own freezer I'd be putting more ads out for free meat or getting stuff from hare-today.com..

    Some online places to buy stuff is hare-today.com in PA area somewhere they ship shipping prices can be high, but I think it's worth it for variety..

    mypetcarnivore.com they're located in Indianapolis IN they deliver to certain states and might ship too not sure.

    greentripe.com sells stuff they're in CA area

    Creston Valley meats sells stuff for dogs is in CA area somewhere I believe.

    Blue ridge beef sells stuff for decent price their green tripe is sold for good price I found a place that sells it and it's good deal..

    Dong a search on Barf diet and your state might help.

    eatwild.com has a list of farmer might be useful.
    http://eatwild.com/products/index.html

    There's a few books on raw I read one Raw Dog Food: Make It Easy for You and Your Dog Not too bad in info I barrow from library not bad book, but I don't think I'd buy it.

    Karen becker has a book and some dvds, Lew Olsen has book on raw diet dunno which is best to get. I like Karen Becker I read her articles and got one of her dvds of her talks.


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    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    "lunch meal or for dinner"
    I guess depends on the raw your giving if it's just a little bit of a thing then as lunch wouldn't hurt, but if it is a size of a meal might as well feed it as dinner instead of kibble..

    Bella gets either chicken quarter, pork ribs, and then a bit boneless meat and tiny bit of organ like liver, heart or tongue..

    Tomorrow's dinner for Bella will be chicken wing, ground beef, beef heart, and chicken foot.

    Today's dinner for Bella was pork ribs, boneless pork, and little bit lamb testee.

    If she just got a lamb neck, turkey, neck, or chicken foot she'd get it as a snack or lunch.

    Anyways I know some people who feed kibble an am and raw pm or raw am and kibble pm depends on the person's schedule.. Kinda like eating cereal in morning.. hehe

    Their dogs do fine on it.

    Saya is fed full raw diet, but does get kibble and dog biscuits for training and does well with it tummy wise and poop wise..

    When Saya was new to raw I didn't give her any treats till she was settled tummy wise with raw.

    When giving things like liver, heart, kidneys, or gizzards introduce it in very small amounts and don't over do it organs are rich and important, but can cause loose even watery poop if introduced too quickly.

    Saya is 20lb and gets 2.24 oz or bit more of liver and other organs a week she gets her liver all at once same for other organs.

    When new to raw it's best to give small amounts at a time usually with bone in items and if the dog doesn't get full amount of organs for the week that's fine important thing is taking it slow and at a pace the dog can get used to it.

    I wouldn't introduce organs till the dog is eating chicken and another protein fine. if you've been giving chicken quarters that usually has tiny bit of kidney on it..

    Saya ate thighs, drumsticks, breasts, quarters, and whole Cornish hens for at least three or four weeks between the second she was getting tiny piece of pork with each meal and by week third it's increased and by week four she gets boneless pork for increase in boneless portion and chicken for bone in and eventually got her pork ribs and pork feet for bone in.

    Pork feet is very boney rest is mostly skin tiny amount of flesh, little bit of tendons so don't let the dog over due it on bone..

    Once she was used to pork I introduced her to beef liver she got very small amount with bone in meals and increased it as she could handle it.

    I trimmed the pork of the thick fat till she was good and slowly kept a little bit on it. Now she can eat a mix of fat and meat with no issue.

    Green beef tripe raw is a yummy thing to give also stinky.. I read it's good for digestive health Saya loves the stuff.

    Asian and Mexican markets is a good way to find meat I get saury and mackerel from Asian market and I haven't checked Mexican market yet hope too once there is room in the freezer it's so full i haven't had need buy much of anything.

    Raw is a bit pricey, a lot of work, but after a bit it gets easier I don't mind portioning things out freezing it so I can take a piece out with no issue.. Kitchen scale is useful for figuring weight of items.

    I find raw is bit pricey at first, but once you find the deals and stock up it helps. I was lucky and pork chops were on sale week I started on chicken so I bought three packs of pork chops cut and thrown bone out to have boneless meals for Saya..

    She got them and tiny bits and eventually as meals.

    Hope things go well and hope my wall of text wasn't too bad getting late and really tired got wake up early to take care of Grandpa..
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • I find raw cheaper than buying a good quality kibble. I have three dogs, two Shibas and an Akita. We buy 30 pounds of chicken backs a month (@ .69 a pound) and about 40 pounds of chicken leg quarters a month. They're pretty cheap too (under a $1 a pound), and we never actually use all that meat in one month, so there is always some left over. I do also sometimes buy fish--sometimes whole fish from the Asian grocery story, and sometimes whatever white fish is on sale. I try to keep stuff around $1 a pound for the dogs.

    They also get some supplements, such as fish oil. The Shibas get glucosamine. They get table scraps and they get pretty good quality treats too, including dried sardines. They also get canned mackeral/sardines etc. occasionally.

    I would say, we're spending about $100 a month to feed the dogs, and I have 200 pounds of dog to feed! If we were feeding a good quality grain free kibble, we'd be spending a fortune! One of the reasons I went raw originally (way back when) was because it was more affordable for me than feeding a really top quality kibble.
  • inupamuinupamu
    Posts: 38
    Do you guys ever worry about getting contaminated from your dogs licking you after eating raw meats? How do you deal with that?
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    no never worried even with bella the floppy lipped boxer if any meat on their mouth and they can't eat it I wipe it off with a mix of water and vinegar.

    Bella and Saya been around kids and my 83yr old diabetic grandfather lives with us no issues yet.

    I always keep any plate, dog bowl, cutting board, knife clean after use.

    Saya never uses her paws on raw. Bella does sometimes which I wipe her paws.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • I used to worry a lot about cross contamination when i first started out--tho it never occurred to me to think of it from licking--I mean dogs eat and lick all kinds of things and we don't get sick. I used to be very careful to clean up with a peroxide solution. But I'm lazy, and after 11 years or so, I let things slide. Now I don't do anything particularly extra. I clean up the shears I use to cut chicken pretty well. I cut chicken over their bowls, not on a cutting board. I clean out their dishes once a month or so. But that's it. And we've never had any problems, so I've decided it's not as easy to get food borne illnesses as I thought. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't spend too much time doing extra cleaning now than I did before.

    And Oskar tends to drag his food out of his dish to his blanket. I still only wash the blanket once a month or so. It's not that bad.
  • NekopanNekopan
    Posts: 403
    I just recently switched to raw. I'm using premade right now because I don't have much freezer space and homemade is a little scary, though I do plan to do that eventually.

    Immediately I noticed: smaller and less frequent poop. He used to go 3-4 times a day, now it's 1-2 times. His poop is more compact and pretty much odorless.

    After a few days I've noticed: better breath, more energy, and a softer coat. He is downright excited about mealtime too, he sits at my feet while I prepare, and whines for more when he's finished.

    I wash any knives and his bowl with hot soapy water. That's all we do when we prepare our own meals, so it's good enough for him.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Glad your dog like it. :)

    Saya loves her meals she sometimes get impatient and whines if I don't hurry up. haha

    Yeah Saya only poops once a day sometimes twice depends on her meals.

    Freezer space is definetly a must when doing do it yourself raw.. I share with my parent's right now hope to get my own soon. I'll move out eventually so will be nice to have when I go.. lol

    I got a lot of meat, bone in meals, organs in my space.. pork, beef, lamb, chicken, turkey, chicken feet, liver, kidney, heart, tongue, whole quail, pork shoulder roasts crazy!

    I love the space helps save money when a deal on 88cent lb pork shoulder roast nice to get a couple or one big one or 99cents lb whole chicken I got two one time. One for Saya and one for Bella yummy.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
    Post edited by Saya at 2012-01-26 18:07:32
  • phipsphips
    Posts: 106
    wow there's a lot of good stuff in here.

    @saya especially has a lot of helpful info and links. thanks for those.

    do you guys feed the raw food on a plate or in a bowl? i noticed in a few photos Saya was eating off a blanket. I'm wondering about the blood getting everywhere.

    @shibamistress mentioned only cleaning the bowl every month or so while feeding raw. that's frequent enough?

    also, lastly, what's the pre made raw food like? shamefully, the necks and backs posted above really gross me out and i don't think i could feed that to a dog.


    thanks guys
    Sunny: 6/Male/Red Sesame
    Post edited by phips at 2012-05-25 21:31:03
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/9663/raw-thread#Item_79

    I post my answer with picture of pre made raw. I got pic of grinds from hare today, but need find it.

    Pre made is kinda like ground meat some might be different in texture it depends. I liked portioning Saya's hare today mutton and the goat grind compared to the duck the duck was bit more squishy while the mutton and goat was more like ground beef.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • phipsphips
    Posts: 106
    wow, i feel like i read every other Raw food thread on here..dunno how i didn't see that one.

    thanks!
    Sunny: 6/Male/Red Sesame
  • mandumandu
    Posts: 135
    Bump!

    I've been doing a lot of research (mostly through this incredibly informative forum) on switching Mandu over to a partial raw-food diet. He's about 5 months old now, and though he is as fit as a fiddle, his breath has started to smell. We've been cleaning his teeth, but I've read over and over again on this forum that having some raw meat with bones can provide a more natural and organic form of teeth-cleansing. I started doing more research and reading and can see that there are WAY more benefits to adding raw into Mandu's diet.

    Anyways, I'm really excited about embarking on this journey. I know I have a lot more reading and research to do. For those of you who are feeding both kibble and raw foods, what are your proportions? I read that some people feed kibble in the morning, raw at night, and that some people only feed raw on certain days of the week without kibble. Are there pros and cons to these options?

    Any insight/advice would be greatly appreciated! Mandu will appreciate it, as well!
  • koyukikoyuki
    Posts: 1244
    A few weeks ago i switched to a primarily raw diet. I aim to feed 200gms of raw each per day, and i feed a small amount of liver (like 8gms) each a few days a week. Koyuki got to the point where she was losing weight and energy because she would not eat kibble or wet dog food, she would rather not eat. I spent hours every night hand feeding her just so she would eat something. All my vet said was dont feed raw, you will do more damage to your dogs by getting it wrong. I am so so thankful for all the info from forum members and it was encouraging to read other peoples experiences.

    As it stands now, i havent got enough knowledge to understand 100% full raw diet as i just dont know what to supplement etc. But, i have managed to get both of my Shibas to actually finish every meal (that never happened before), and i mix in 1/3-1/2 cup of their puppy kibble with their pm meal so they are still getting the vitamins from that. I do worry about mixing raw and kibble because of the different speeds of digestion, but i only mix it with ground beef,turkey or pork and so far they havent had any bowel issues. They are still having normal BA's.

    When i get a better grip on raw i hope to cut out kibble alltogether. Since feeding mostly raw, Koyuki has actually gained around 2kgs and is in beautiful shape. She looked very slim before and started looking too skinny. Now she looks healthy and thicker but still quite petite. Takeo has always been solid, but i need to watch his intake because i dont want a fat puppy!

    My guys get a chicken wing for breakfast, sometimes a drumstick (although to be honest i am petrified of feeding them drumsticks because of that needle bone!), and sometimes boneless chicken breast or thigh. At dinner time they get 100gms of minced meat with kibble, and on different nights theyll sometimes get with it omega supplement, 6-8gms of liver, 1/2 egg each.

    Its great to have the support of the forum members when trying out raw feeding, its pretty exciting! Honestly my family is sick of me carrying on about all the different things i want to try get hold of for my shibas lol.

    They both seem to have heaps more energy and actually sleep better at night since switching. Its just unfortunate that there isnt a single vet where i live that is pro-raw :-(

    Not sure if i have even said anything helpful sorry! Good luck with it all and keep us updated! :-) :-) :-)
    Koyuki - red female
    Takeo- cream male
    Kenji- black and tan male
    Suma- sesame female
    Haruki-brindle Japanese Akita Inu
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I got various helpful links on here.
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/9663/raw-thread/p1

    This guide is pretty helpful on how to get started it's for prey model, but if you want do barf kind with veggies can always add veggies in once dog is used to raw.. I don't feel veggies are needed unless the dog is like a dalmatian and need low purine diet.

    I know some raw fed dalmatians not exactly sure how they feed
    http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/

    Saya breath smelled when she was on wellness puppy kibble and wellness core ocean..

    Raw seems clear it up or it's not as bad haven't smelled her breath in while.

    When she started raw she got chicken drumsticks, thighs, bone in breast, and quarters.

    Things like quarters was day and half meal or two days meal if I gave her something else in with it like gizzards or boneless chicken.

    I fed her whole cornish hen took her week to eat it all. She got chicken gizzard, heart and ground bison as part of her meal too.

    Some cornish hens are smaller though the ones I got were tyson twin pack ones they're bigger then small ones, but smaller then a chicken..

    Pork was her second protein she was introduced to, bison was her third, but it was one time thing she just got tiny bit with meals till it was gone.

    While she a was doing good on pork I very slowly introduced beef liver with each bone in meal.

    There is some books out there on raw diet. I only read one from library is was OK, but I don't think it was enough for someone new to raw.

    Bella is my parent's dog and she gets raw as a meal two or four times a week as dinner instead of kibble she seems do fine.

    At first I just gave her chicken quarters skinless and once she did better I slowly added bit of beef heart or tongue into her meals and then bit boneless meat and tiny piece of liver. It took long time since she was not my dog I didn't want her to have stomach issue.

    I've given her pork ribs as different bone in meal and she does good with them.

    Now I've been giving it to her while I try keep it balanced especially if she is getting it four times a week if it's two or one day she usually gets bone in meal and some boneless or maybe liver.

    If she is getting it four times week I'll give her 2.24oz of liver and some boneless with bone in meal and then the other meals are boneless items and then another time 2.24oz of kidneys. She is 55lbs or so so the organ amount isn't too much, but it's enough she gets yummy organ, but no stomach upset over it since they're rich.

    I worked her up to Saya's amount of organs by giving her tiny amount of the liver or kidneys and increased it.

    So far Bella has done great on it and her behavior is good.

    She used to tense when eating raw she resource guarded it, but now with work she doesn't mind me sitting next to her as she eat and she will drop it for a treat. it took a lot to get to it though.

    Saya luckily is fine though. I could hold it or grab it no issue..
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)

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