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furminator surprise
  • CybertrendCybertrend
    Posts: 22
    I though I had been doing a good job brushing out the undercoat of my Shiba for the past month. I tried a furminator for the first time recently and got a big surprise—so much fur! I had no idea how much could come out. It's been three days of twice-daily furminating, and my question is, how much fur am I suppose to brush out? Do I just continue until nothing more comes out? There's so much still, I'm afraid I'm taking more off than the undercoat. I'd like to hear from experienced furminator users.
  • vnovikovavnovikova
    Posts: 532
    Be very careful with the furminator. You should not use it that often, it actually shaves your dog's undercoat and he might go bold on you. There a some threads about furminator on here as well, just put it into search to get more info.
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1814
    I don't use a furmantor it strips the coat and takes hairs that are not ready to come out. Some dogs hate it as it can hurt if it happens you are tugging on hairs not ready to go.

    Unfortunately Shibas shed/molt in batches so not all the fur wil be ready to come out all at once. The hairs that are ready will pill and push to the top and can be easily pulled/plucked off.

    I gently use a slicker brush or grooming mit and rise the dog in water during a bath so that all the clingy hairs will roll off down the back. A zoom groom would be a good idea for this.

    Snf
    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2011-06-12 11:57:35
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
    Furminators have sharp blades in the teeth that cut the fur and, what has been said already, can strip the coat if used too often. I met a shiba that was over brushed with the furminator, and the poor thing looked like it got a bad hair cut. The coat also felt very coarse and the pup got hot really quickly from lack of "insulation".
    image
  • I have a Furminator. The only time I really use it is when the Shibas are blowing their coats. Then I do it when I see the tufts of fur kind of sticking out, ready to go. Hoshi likes to be brushed, so he isn't a problem. Sukoshi has never really been into brushing, so I do her in short sessions.
  • shibahiroshibahiro
    Posts: 977
    i recommend the Kong Zoom Groom! =)
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    Don't brush with the Furminator twice daily as others have said. Not only can it completely strip out the undercoat it can also damage the overcoat. A way of how I test how much pressure to use when using my knock-off Furminator is to use it on my arm first. They are dang sharp and can easily cause razor burn on a dog. Dog skin can be more sensitive than a humans since it's not really exposed to the elements, and using a sharp brush like that twice a day can mar it up pretty bad.

    My grooming routine is to use the Furminator on the weekends only and do one side on Saturday and the other on Sunday, so that I'm not overwhelming my Shiba with brushing. I only use it for about 10 minutes and stop after that even if I can still get undercoat out.
    Every or every other day I use a curry comb and a slicker brush to get the shedding overcoat and loose undercoat off. The curry loosens up the overcoat and collects it as well as the undercoat and the slicker makes everything look nice and catches the stray hairs the curry doesn't get.

    The Zoom groom is a good option. It gets the under and over coats off. It's the same thing as a curry comb for horses but works on Shiba-type hair better than a regular curry. I'm a cheap-o and bought a curry comb since it's $1.49 instead of $9.99, but the curry takes longer than the Zoom Groom so only get one if you're on a tight budget or have a mutant Shiba who likes to be brushed (like mine)
  • emmyemmy
    Posts: 553
    I love the furminator, but it is damaging to my shiba's fur. I have posted this before, but I know I'm not doing it too hard because he LOVES it. But I don't use it every day except for when he has tufts of fur sticking out, and then I only hit the areas that are obviously shedding.

    I think it's a great tool, but I know someone who goes overboard and it makes his akita look like he shaved it. So you have to be careful.
  • camodudecamodude
    Posts: 127
    Good post, my shiba is shedding a lot the last few weeks and I only use the furminator once a week and just use a slicker brush when needed between furminator uses.
  • mattzmattz
    Posts: 418
    I use the furmintor once a week on my Shiba, every Sunday afternoon. She ABSOLUTELY LOVES IT!!! Yes, a ton of hair comes out! Sometimes it's like a whole second Shiba haha! Other times, like during Winter for example, I just use a regular brush on her since she's not shedding and the furminator will take out hairs that aren't ready to go. As previously mentioned, I only use it about 5-10 minutes each time... I really only give my Shiba the "once over" with it... As others have said, I don't want to damage her coat or irritate her skin... So far we've had NO PROBLEMS!
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8414
    Am I the only one that uses a shedding blade?
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
    LoL Casey, I use one on Tikaani and it does a great job getting the clumps out of his butt. I was able to get enough off Tikaani with the shedding blade alone to make Tetsu a nice Einstein "wig":
    image
    image
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8414
    Lol! Is it sad that when I use it on Nola's bum I get just about the same amount of fur? Haha.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • SwiftSwift
    Posts: 8
    I use a furminator on Swift, he doesn't mind because I distract him with a bowl of peanut butter. It works great, otherwise it;s all over my house, my bed, my chair, my floor...
  • i use the furminator at work, carefully. i really try not to use it when she's not blowing her coat, but during the summertime its a life saver. also bathing the dog first and using a good conditioner that loosens up the shedding hair and strengthens the hair will help prevent breakage and ripping out the hair that isn't shedding. i go slowly, and i also use a metal comb and a coat king to strip out the shed. i make sure the hair coming out isn't too much of the guard coat, and i watch for breakage and damage.

    the biggest difference between grooming my dog at the shop and at home, is at the shop we have high powered blow dryers and a bathing system that helps loosen up the hair. most of the shedding is done in the bathtub.
  • lockshi3lockshi3
    Posts: 628
    Lol @Beth. I will use the furminator only when he is heavily blowing coat.. right now it's only beginning again, so I am using the zoomgroom. Once it gets crazier I use the furminator only once/twice a week
  • shibahiroshibahiro
    Posts: 977
    i don't use the furminator cause it actually cuts the undercoat instead of just brushing it out. i use the Kong Zoom Groom. works really well.
  • XabiXabi
    Posts: 432
    Another vote for the Kong Zoom Groom! I furminated my guy once when his puppy fur was at it's thickest, but I've found the Z/G to be much easier to use around the more sensitive & hard to reach areas (e.g. behind the ears, insides of legs). Those silicone nubs are much more forgiving.
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 1165
    I use the furminator sparingly on my Shiba, (read like once every 2 weeks). Once it gets really bad, then I know it's bath time.

    Jesse
  • How does the zoom groom fare during a major blow?
    ninjarf21.tumblr.com
  • shibahiroshibahiro
    Posts: 977
    I think it does really well!!! it gets all the loose hair out. i didn't know a piece of silicon can do so much work!!
  • After reading a couple of posts, I went out and bought the Kong Zoom Groom. I must say, I do like it a lot better than the Furminator. Seems to be more gentle. Kiro is also way more tolerable of it. Seems to do that trick too. So much more cheaper also. It definitely won me over.
  • YukikoYukiko
    Posts: 452
    The Zoom Groom really is great! I love pulling the "honeycomb of fur" out of the brush after a good brushing session. =)
  • the butt fluff is always the last to go on my shibas. such a pain...in the butt!
  • mcsassymcsassy
    Posts: 339
    butt fluff ftw
    image
  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    Not having the same luck with the Zoom Groom Everyone else is. It seems like Pearl doesn't have the density that a purebred Shiba does, and it really reduces the effectiveness of the Zoom Groom.

    Kinda lame.
  • kumaDUDEkumaDUDE
    Posts: 1259
    I used the furminator for the first time yesterday, after giving Kuma a bath. He loved it, but I mad sure I did not put much pressure on him. He just sat there calmly, and ended up falling asleep when I moved to his belly region. I did this for about 10-15minutes, even though I could have taken more fur out, I did not want to destroy his fur or give him shaver burns.

    Side Note:
    Has anyone ever used the Dyson Grooming Kit?
    I have purchased this kit about a month before we picked up Kuma, but I am a bit hesitant on using it on him at such a young age (16weeks). I do not wish to traumatize him. He tolerates the vacuum just fine, he doesn't even whimper or run when I turn on the machine, I may use it on him when he turns 7months and see if he will tolerate it.
  • HibariShibaHibariShiba
    Posts: 203
    I posted the following in a separate thread, and got no replies. Am a bit more worried about our continued Furminator use having read this thread (e.g., have we gone too far? Is it possible we have damaged his coat permanently?), but am still hoping to get a reply from someone about our specific situation. Any replies regarding the repost below would be appreciated. Thanks!

    ---

    I have looked back on past discussions but want to ask because of a couple of particular concerns.

    First, Ponta has been shedding quite a bit for three months now, and shows no signs of stopping. It began in March, when temps were in the 50's, and has continued up till now as temps start to rise, often in the 70's. It's short-sleeve weather, and Ponta pants regularly after walks now that it's warmer. Ponta turns 1 year old today (writing this at 1 a.m.), and this is his first major shedding.

    I first started noticing his shedding when I could pinch and pull his fur and many strands of undercoat came out. The slicker brush we tried for the first few weeks wouldn't get anything, so we got a Furminator, and love it. Ponta is now fully acclimated, and minds it not a bit. When I use the furminator, I do not press down, but tend to rake it across his fur with only slight pressure more than gravity provides. That does the trick.

    I brush him perhaps 3 times a week [Edit: on reflection, I think it is 2 times a week with the Furminator at most, it just feels like more], and each time get a loose handful of fur, from hardball-sized up to large-grapefruit-sized when not packed. It just keeps on coming. Just when we thought that an area was mined out, it would start producing undercoat again. His guard coat rarely gives up anything.

    We bathe Ponta perhaps more than most owners might, usually once every two weeks, usually after a trip to the dog run (where he comes back covered with dirt and big-dog slobber). We use a gentle pet shampoo (at least it claims "can be used everyday," though obviously we don't want to test that), and it does not show any immediate signs of straining his coat.

    Just yesterday at the dog run, I started scratching Ponta on the shoulder, a favorite back-leg-wave-inducing area, when I noticed that, as I scratched, a steady stream of short white fur was falling to the ground. He didn't go bald in that area or anything, but it was a bit alarming. We saw that again with the short hair on his chest today.

    His shedding is such that if I have him in my lap for a while, there is a good amount of fur left behind when he leaves, unlike this winter when he was as much as 9 months old.

    I have noticed a small patch or two where there seems to be a whorl or something--not balding, but you can see into it. This one appeared on his neck, and was not symmetrical (on both sides). We noted something similar several months ago, but it must have grown back in.

    His coat is also getting thin and less fluffy, naturally since his undercoat is going--but he is notably less plush than many other Shibas we meet, even ones near his age. (We meet quite a few, here in Tokyo.)

    I am slightly nervous because Ponta's mom, a black and tan, had bare spots which the breeder seemed to suggest were just due to coat-blowing; in any case, he appeared confident that nothing was wrong with her coat, and he was the head of the prefectural Nippo (Association for the Preservation of the Japanese Dog )--and yet I still get nervous when I see what could be incipient patches like that.

    I am, most likely, being too nervous about this, but was hoping if anyone could give their reaction to the situation in general. Is an extended shedding period like that common or unusual? Or do Shibas shed that much year-round and just increase markedly when they blow? Are we overdoing the grooming? Is a less plush, mostly guard coat (except for around the neck, but that is thinning as well) normal and his rich coat will return? Should we worry about general coat health in terms of grooming or genetics? Are there things we might be doing wrong which should be strongly avoided?

    Thanks for all advice and suggestions.
  • kumaDUDEkumaDUDE
    Posts: 1259
    Umm idk but sounds like he's just doing his blowout of fur, I wouldn't worry until after he grows his hair back. I could be wrong, haven't experienced the puppy blow out yet
  • sarahnyasarahnya
    Posts: 25
    I use the Furminator when they are blowing their coats, I've never noticed it shredding or damaging the coat. I'm always careful to do it after a bath and go in the direction of hair growth, both of mine love it.
  • midranger4midranger4
    Posts: 59
    I use the Furminator on both Max and Maya.

    As others have said the key to success with it is knowing when it's needed and how to use it.

    I use it only when they are blowing their coats and about twice a week during this time. Each session consists of putting Max or Maya on a table that puts them at eye level. I then start at the neck and work my way back to their pants by running the Furminator through their coat with medium pressure. I work the Furminator with one hand and run my second hand over the brushed area with an open palm. It's hard to describe but you get a feel for how many strokes an area requires. I've never had to take more than two or three quick strokes over a particular area. I have had great results using it. Both Max and May have absolutely gorgeous coats and neither objects to its use at all. Max actually jumps on the table without prompting when he sees me come outside with it. It never takes me more than five minutes for each dog. With this said I have seen first hand the results of someone who was too aggressive with one. The outer coat was clearly affected as it appeared uneven and spotty.

    I swear by them but with the side note that they can damage a coat if used too aggressively. I think good rules of thumb if one is unsure is two strokes maximum per area until you get a feel for the correct amount of pressure to apply when using it, no more than two sessions per week, only when they are blowing their coats, and STOP IMMEDIATELY if the hair you are removing is the color of their outer coat. The hair I get when I use it is whitish undercoat, NOT the black or sesame outer coat colors.

    For me at least I have not found a need to take anything other than a surface brush to their coats when they aren't blowing their coats.

    I also replace the blade annually.

    I'm only sharing my own experiences and results. Hope this proves helpful to someone.

  • midranger4midranger4
    Posts: 59
    HibariShiba,

    Both my Shibas scared me when they lost their puppy coats. Don't worry, it's a temporary state. Liken it to our own awkward teenage years. Trust me that ugly duckling is hiding a swan.
  • After reading this post I also became concerned about using the Furminator, so went out and found something similar to the Kong Zoom Groom but for less. Saki hasn't seemed to notice a difference between either and it seems to remove the same amount a fur.
    But one question, with the new zoom groom is it ok to brush against the natural growth of hair to get to her undercoat. (I would never do this with the Furminator.) We did on our Schipperkee with success and they seem to have similar coats.
    Deb and Jeff, Appleton, WI
  • kirjohkirjoh
    Posts: 26
    Penny absolutely hates being brushed with my slicker brush that I had bought for her, and screams and stuggles and tries to get away. My neighbor suggested that I bring her over and we could use her furminator. We did it, and it's amazing, She didn't scream or struggle at all. I loved that it got all those clumps out that never seem to go away!

    I think as long as it's not used every single day, and only when they are shedding big time, it shouldn't damage their coats.
  • HibariShibaHibariShiba
    Posts: 203
    @midranger4:

    Thanks, that's a relief to know. It's kind of alarming, and finding out that the guard coat is supposed to be shed, and what's happening in general is normal, is very comforting. Right now, as for coloring, Ponta seems to be trending toward sesame, but we have no idea where he'll end up...
  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    @midranger4

    yeah, I was getting kinda worried, but I had switched to the zoom groom brush months ago. A guy in the park noticed that she was less fluffy than she was before, I was a bit worried until I saw your post.

    Check out the awesome fur honeycomb!

    https://plus.google.com/photos/102311400572939456749/albums/5765615762103520769
  • Blu_by_uBlu_by_u
    Posts: 42
    Question, How much fur does a Shiba really have? From Pearl's and Calia's pic, it seems pretty long. Are they not suppose to be a short haired breed? My Creamy's parents fur looks pretty firm and short.
    Really fast out.
  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    Pearl is a mini husky / shiba mix, so that might explain her difference.
  • RorsRors
    Posts: 165
    @Blu_by_u, In general dogs that have been desexed can have coats that are a little longer and denser than undesexed dogs. That being said there can be a good bit of genetic variance. I have even seen long haired Shiba.
  • HibariShibaHibariShiba
    Posts: 203
    Question, How much fur does a Shiba really have?

    Ponta has so far released a staggering amount of fur. He started in mid-March and is still going strong. It's almost as if he's shedding it as fast as he's growing it...
  • I used to use my furminator more than I do now. I still use it on Koji when he gets really itchy during the spring blow, but now I use the zoom groom for baths (awesome on wet fur and getting it off your furniture!) and I just use a regular undercoat rake for the rest of the time. Gets those clumps out like no one's business and I was surprised how much nicer his coat felt. No wonder people have used the rakes for forever, I didn't think it would do much on Kojerton since he always looks out of coat, but it's wonderful.
  • Blu_by_uBlu_by_u
    Posts: 42
    How do you stop your dog from trying to eat the brush, rake and etc. Mine goes crazy when I hold up the brush...tries her very best to get the brush away from me!
    Really fast out.
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    @Blu_by_u Distract with a treat or toy. Praise for calm behavior. That's how I got Conker to sit still during grooming sessions.

    Also, a Shiba's coat depends on many factors. Genetics, diet, and environment are the most notable ones. Good genetics play a big role in coat quality. A well-bred Shiba is more likely to have a correct coat than a poorly-bred one. Nutrition is also very important and can make any coat look cruddy or amazing. The environment, or temperature, also helps determine how thick a coat can be. Conker had an immensely thick coat in St. Louis where it snowed. This past winter in Southern Oregon, it wasn't very thick at all compared to that.
    Post edited by Losech at 2012-08-13 04:31:25
  • happyfluffhappyfluff
    Posts: 11
    Is there such thing as post neuter shedding? Noticed happy lost a significant amount of fur after neutering , he did shed previously his puppy coat at 4 months, grew fluffier and now at almost 7 months he is shedding again , whatever he grew after the last shed is coming off. He was neutered 3 weeks ago.
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
    No there is not such a thing. I think that it just so happens that the timing of the change of seasons is what is making the coat shed.

    It's normal for the puppy to blow its puppy coat around 4-6 months old and if you neutered him 3 weeks ago, that just so happened to be around a major season change.

    Kira has started to blow her winter coat here as well.
    Cynthia, Proudly owned by Kira
    imageimage
    Kira the Cream Shiba Inu 吉良 - Facebook Page
    Follow Kira on Instagram! Kira_the_cream_shiba_inu
    Kira's Life Story & Photo Thread - Chronicles of Kira

    “Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.”
  • RooneyRooney
    Posts: 142
    I have a furminator, but I almost always use the Top Paw Palm Brush instead (I got it at Petsmart, where it was less expensive than Amazon). I'm just nervous about damaging his coat with the furminator and I feel like the palm brush works just as well (also more comfortable for me). Since it flexes a lot with my hand, it's just like petting him, which he loves. Maybe worth the $9.99 investment for people with shibas skittish about being brushed...
    Allison, Rooney's Mom
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
    I used the shedding blade on Kira yesterday, it works amazingly! I used to use it for the Akita I lived with many years ago and it was always very efficient.
    Cynthia, Proudly owned by Kira
    imageimage
    Kira the Cream Shiba Inu 吉良 - Facebook Page
    Follow Kira on Instagram! Kira_the_cream_shiba_inu
    Kira's Life Story & Photo Thread - Chronicles of Kira

    “Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.”

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