For all new members, please check out the thread New to the Forum? What to do and forum guidelines.
Giardia
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    I got a call from the vet today letting me know that Foxy tested positive for Giardia and put her on med for that as well as the mites she found on her skin scrape test. I'm beyond frustrated at how much she has gone through in the 4 weeks I've had her but glad that there is a reason that's been diagnosed.

    I've read all the other threads on this forum where Giardia is mentioned but what I can't find is if I need to throw out all her toys to avoid re-infection? I've been reading a bunch of other stuff that Google came up with and many said that this needed to be done. My vet never said anything about that and I'll call tomorrow when they are open but am wondering if anyone here has had experience with this and can let me know???
  • Adonia1986Adonia1986
    Posts: 451
    Have you talked to your breeder about all the health issues Foxy has been having? No one should have to go through this much in 4 weeks after getting a new puppy. Did you breeder have a health guarantee or anything?

    Unfortunately I don't know anything about giardia, but I would suggest disenfecting her toys, washing soft ones in hot water with a mild detergent and cleaning everything of hers the best you can. Even if that isn't necessary, it might help.Stefanie & Sakura Twin Cities - MN
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    I plan on calling the breeder tomorrow as you're absolutely correct. First it was a Tick, then it was mites and now this.... There is a health guarantee but I really cannot see me sending her back. I do want to know what she has to say about this though.

    I'll go ahead and wash her toys to be safe.

    She's been very feisty tonight and I have yet to put the cone on her so I can put the salve on her patches without her licking it off. That should go over well.... I've been holding off till as late as possible so she'll be tired out and hopefully won't bother with it much.
  • Danielle_83Danielle_83
    Posts: 84
    Foxy was the breeder a reputable one as far as you know?
  • Adonia1986Adonia1986
    Posts: 451
    Sakura was irate at having a cone, do you have a clear one or a fabric one? If she freaks out with the fabric one, try a clear one, sakura freaked out when we tried a comfy cone on her, but was perfectly annoyed with the clear one we ended up getting from petco. Also, if she is having a hard time with the cone, bring her crate out to where you will be hanging out most of the day and put her in it every now and then. Sakura does "puppy defense" when she goes in the crate, throws a hissy fit, then conks out. Doing that might help foxy rest and get healthy :)

    I had a friend who bought a cocker spaniel a few years ago, the dog had horrible health problems the whole first month, but she had fallen in love with the little squirt. She had a health guarantee and talked to the breeder, but she didn't want to return the pup. Ultimately what the breeder and my friend decided to do, was that the breeder would reimburse her medical costs, up to the amount initially paid for the dog. So, the dog was $300 ish, once the vet bills hit that mark, they agreed that the breeder no longer had responsibility for the pup, since she had refunded the friends money.

    I don't know if that might be an option for you, but it is something to consider.Stefanie & Sakura Twin Cities - MN
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Danielle as far as I knew I felt she was but honestly I didn't do any checking on her. Everything I read was good and spent a good hr. with her on the phone but without going there personally to see the kennel it's hard to tell.

    I have to wonder if she didn't pick up the Giardia from here though. I live in a condo complex and try to keep her in a restricted area to do her business but she could have gotten from the grass as they tend to water very early in the morning and if it pools and she licks any of it, there you go.... The mites the vet said are a bacteria that we all have and can become active when stressed so just bringing her into the vet could have caused her to have a active one. They only found one under the microscope when they tested the skin scrape so that's good that there weren't a lot more. After we finish clearing this up then I need to go back to getting her dry skin cleared up. That's what the leave in conditioner is for that the vet gave me. I don't see how any of these issue would have to do with the breeder necessarily. The tick is another story as I know she came with that. I found that on her the day after I got her and it was huge!!!

    Adonia, I got her a plastic clear one. She seems okay with it on now. She's settled onto her pillow pet and is resting. I'll wash her stuff tomorrow after I get some gentle detergent. I can't take her stuffed cow from her now to wash before she goes to sleep for the night as that's her comfort toy.

    I know one thing, having this cone on sure has made it a lot easier to brush her without her chewing back at me or the brush..... Maybe I should use it going forward for that LOL!
  • Danielle_83Danielle_83
    Posts: 84
    Foxy I wouldn't discount the role that the breeder could have played...you found the tick on her the day after you got her? Was she in an area in that short amount of time that she could have picked up a tick? I would certainly google the breeder to see if there are any other reviews online about her kennel. Definitely call her and tell her about these issues - if you had a health guarantee she should pick up these costs in my opinion. Good luck with Foxy! I really feel for you! Keep us updated on her progress!
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Danielle the tick was definitely from the breeder. I had Googled the kennel when I first looked into buying her and didn't find anything negative so I didn't think anything was wrong with her. I'll call her tomorrow to discuss but most importantly I just want her to get better.

    I'll keep you posted of her progress.
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    Care to share the name of the breeder?

    I wouldn't rely on Googling to find definitive information about a breeder (though it's certainly a start). A lot of breeders, especially from puppy mill states like Arkansas get "into" a breed for a short amount of time while they can make money off it then they pull out without leaving enough of a history, unless the kennel itself has a history (no offense to anyone from AR but like it or not, your state has a reputation for lax regulation and puppy mill permissiveness). You may want to check out some of the old discussions on this forum on how to find a responsible/reputable breeder, and see if that helps you scrutinize your breeder.

    At any rate, I would suggest you hold your tongue on the possibility that your pup could have gotten giardia from your apartment complex's lawn water. The chances are greater that giardia came from the breeder than from lawn water, unless there happens to be several other giardia-infested puppies in your complex right now. But as soon as you allow for any possibility of doubt, the breeder is off the hook. They'll likely try to deny any responsibility anyway, but underneath it all, I feel like something's the matter if your puppy has had so many health issues in such a short amount of time.

    Sorry you have to deal with all this!

    Also, have you considered puppy insurance?
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Curlytails, I did purchase puppy insurance and sent in a claim today.

    The breeder is Shelba Canfield and the kennel is Brooklyn Hills Kennels. The more I read on here the more I'm now wondering if it isn't in fact a puppy mill. I just found a YoutTube video that displays a very different picture than the ones on the site I viewed. I didn't see her name on their listing for puppy mills though.

    This really saddens me as I really thought I did my due diligence prior to buying but now am not so sure. )0:
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    Well, one thing I do see about Brooklyn Hills is that they boast that they're licensed as a USDA-inspected breeder, which sounds like a good thing, but actually means that they sell puppies in quantities large enough to require a USDA license. There is an old thread about just what amounts to a USDA inspection here:
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6596&page=1#Item_5

    There's some other stuff too, but ultimately, what's done is done. Good to know that you have puppy insurance! And this forum is definitely here to help you, regardless of where your babe came from.

    But back to the giardia thing, don't acknowledge any possibility that it came from you at the outset, since I think the chances are greater that Foxy was harboring and incubating the parasite from the breeder. See what the breeder has to say about it... and do check your health contract.

    As for how to disinfect and the rest of that, I have no experience with that, but hopefully someone else can chime in.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Thanks Curlytails for the advice and additional info (support too!). I will definitely be giving her a call tomorrow to discuss this. I checked the contract and it's going to be tough because of the amount of time elapsed but I think I can show that I've been taking her to the vet regularly since she arrived to deal with these various issues and just take it from there.

    I didn't find any violations on her when looking or many complaints but I certainly didn't like the looks of the video posted on Youtube. I do wish I had found that prior to my purchase.

    I'm very grateful to this forum and everyone here that shares their knowledge! I've been spending hours pouring over everything I can absorb.
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    OMG Curlytails! I want to throw up after seeing some of those pictures in that report!!!! I had never seen a tick before so the one I found on Foxy was a first for me. But that poor pup with them all over her face. UGH! I don't understand how there can be people out there that can let things happen like this to poor defenseless animals. So sickening.

    Thanks for the wake up call! My head is officially out of the sand now!
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Just a thought, but many animals are exposed to giardia over their lifetime, but those with healthy immune systems are able to handle it and not succumb to infection. I'm guessing from the location and look of the wounds, that she also has demodexx mange? Mange is also a type of opportunistic infection in dogs with weak or challenged immune systems (like puppies), and they naturally inherit these mites from their mothers. It is when the immunity is compromised, that signs of infection are observable. The ultimate remedy for these infections is a healthy immune system, but some anti protozoals will least help with the giardia in the meantime. Ask your vet, but there are some good products to give that may help boost your puppy's defenses since she seems to be a bit taxed currently. I have used Missing link, fish oils, Seameal, colostrum, B vitamins, etc to help give my immune challenged dog a boost. A dermatologist also prescribed supplemental Immune Globulins, like are given to people with autoimmune disease (MS, RA, some cancers, etc).
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Lindsay, I won't get the test results for the mange for about a week they said. I am currently using the fish oil on her food and the Vet also gave me Canine Dermal Support to sprinkle on her food once a day. However, I will ask about anything else I should give.

    Thanks for the input!
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1814
    Foxy:

    Get her started on the meds and go with the care to get everything treated. She is not as bad as some but you will have to monitor her and be diligent about follow up. Sometimes it can take a very long time to get giardia wiped out. Make sure to wash your hands well after handling, playing with pup and clean up.

    I highly doubt the apt. area where you live created the problems in such a short time. Giardia and protozoan parasites can in fact be transmitted in utero from dam to pups. When pups are raised in cramped dirty quarters with unclean ground and water, (i.e. the dam is not living under ideal conditions) parasite control becomes almost impossible to maintain. Most millers do not want to incur additional costs so they wait as long as possible for any treatment, if at all. Pups pick up what the dam has and more often than not it is a direct reflection in regard to lack of care.

    Brooklyn hills Kennels in Melborne AK - USDA A cert holder. (ie. puppy mill) "Class "A" Licensee" indicates they spit out more than 25 puppies a year, so they have to be licensed by the US Department of Agriculture.

    Class ``A'' licensee (breeder) means a person subject to the
    licensing requirements under part 2 and meeting the definition of a
    ``dealer'' (Sec. 1.1), and whose business involving animals consists
    only of animals that are bred and raised on the premises in a closed or
    stable colony and those animals acquired for the sole purpose of
    maintaining the breeding colony."


    Thank you for sharing, your story sadly it is all to common. Although purchase was not made from the petstore physically, in purchasing online in all probability the transaction went through via a broker type situation, who's business is to sit by the phone and take delivery orders (often for multiple millers at the same time or pet store franchises), they take on the guise of breeder. They never see the dogs they sell. Unscrupulous individuals often disappear as quickly as they spring up but it saves the breeder the trouble or the talk. It is similar to fly by night banking schemes. However, licensed brokers have permission to operate online. Most customers are unsuspecting so operations continue to go on in mass. In many cases there is no license or inspection of the pop up kennel that can just as easily swap identities.
    Bottom line.... If you can't see it, don't buy it. Never buy sight unseen.

    With all that being said....If you have a contract I would carefully take a look at what that says, maybe there will a loop hole somewhere that will benefit you and the situation. Understand that interstate commerce laws most likely will not cover problems with transaction and puppy sales/complaints etc.

    If you have grievance with the seller you have to go back to the state where the dog was purchased to get restitution. Again, Interstate commerce will not protect in regard to online pet purchases.

    Checking out puppy lemon laws by the state you live in or purchase from my give assistance with further problems.


    Here is the USDA APHIS website if in depth info is needed about class and definitions of kennel facilities. I recommend that prospective buyers take a look and become well aware of classifications of prospective kennels.

    Refs:

    http://www.aphis.usda.gov/
    http://www.seattledogspot.com/2011/03/29/videogroup-exposes-online-puppy-mill-broker/

    http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/puppy-mills/puppy-scams-cons.aspx

    Snf
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Thanks for the additional info SNF. I am very conflicted over all this. It's been a very good lesson yet embarrassing to say the least that I didn't find all this out prior to buying her. I should have known better.

    At any rate, I'm now better educated and Lindsay I think you're right about the Dermodex Mange. While I'm still waiting on the results I don't doubt she has it. I have now found two more spots on her just above her arms on both sides which is where she scratches a lot. I'm putting the Goodinol Ointment on all four spots now and it looks like as long as she doesn't have more than these four spots it's considered Localized #1 so should resolve within a month (but can take up to three).

    One thing is for sure, I am going to be much more educated in a very short amount of time on all these different things that dogs can get.

    I also will never refer anyone to this breeder! When asked about her breed, I'll be referring people to this site to do their homework first.

    I also appreciate you all not coming down too hard on me. I was very apprehensive at first about admitting to my naievtivity about all this.
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    Sorry, maybe I should've put a bigger warning about the graphic pictures in that file... but sadly, there is no shortage of pictures like those.

    My Shiba was purchased through a broker who probably got him from a mill-type operation. I did not grow up in a particularly pet-savvy family, and nobody ever talked to me about how to screen a breeder before. When my partner and I decided we were ready for a pet, we got one in a pretty short amount of time, so it wasn't until AFTER we welcomed our bundle of puppyfluff home that people started to question us and inform us about what we had done. So yeah, I learned a lot in a short amount of time too. And understanding the sordid origins of puppy mill dogs doesn't change the fact that we are committed to the little guy that we chose, as difficult as he has been due to a combination of grouchy temperament, raising him in a challenging urban environment with no guidance, and health issues that sprung up later in life. But we've stuck by him. And at least there are breed-specific forums like this to help!

    Stick around, and you'll learn lots. =)
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Goodwinol is good stuff for localized mange. My girl wouldn't lick it off either. It took about 3 months for the spots to go away. She was from a want ad and my first Shiba. Nobody knows it all so no worries :)
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1814
    Foxy, I know it is shocking when one first finds out. So many have been duped. It is tough since the brokers and millers don't want the consumer to know and they work at trying to obfuscate what they are. The internet allows them to do it more easily. There certainly is a learning curve in sorting it out.

    In any case, hope your pup is feeling better soon!
    Snf
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    Don't feel bad about your mistake: I did the same thing with my female Shiba (also a USDA facility). We can't help it if we just don't know. This is why it is SO critical that people be educated about what a good, responsible breeder is.

    And even coming from a responsible breeder doesn't guarantee things. My pup had coccidia when I got him. I also don't know if he had it when I got him, or got it on the way (I'm a bit suspicious about a place I let him drink some water at a rest stop in western NV, and certainly I saw the breeder's place and it looked really good, but coccidia, like giardia, is something that gets into the very soil, and is very hard to get rid of once it's there).

    anyway, I hope you're able to get your little girl healthy.
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Thanks again all for the support! It's going to be a long month in trying to keep her from scratching her bald patches. I'm working from home today/tomorrow then will have the weekend so can really keep a close eye on her and distract her when she starts to itch.

    I'm also glad we caught the Giardia early as we haven't experienced the vomiting or diarrhea that come along if you don't.

    She seems like her normal playful self except for all the scratching/biting at her fur. The fur is also flying off and while I brush her with a steel brush I think I'll pick up one of the Kong Zoom Grooms as that might not be so hard on her already sensitive skin.
  • LuckeeSevenLuckeeSeven
    Posts: 166
    Hope Foxy is feeling better soon!
    Megan and Justin with Renji & Roxy
  • vnovikovavnovikova
    Posts: 532
    I'm so sorry to see that you are going through so much with your little one! I have no doubt she will get better and will be a lot of joy!! She is such a beautiful pup!
  • Alex575Alex575
    Posts: 171
    Hi Foxylover,

    I got a chill when I read this post. I got my Shiba, Monju, from Brooklyn Hill Kennels, too! I guess I've been very lucky because Monju hasn't had any problems and she's now 9-months old -- I got her at 9-weeks-- (knock on wood).

    Seeing the above links was very shocking! Especially hearing that report about the one puppy mill with a bunch of different web sites, so buyers never know where the pup is actually coming from.

    This must be very stressful for you. I'll be very interested in hearing what Mrs. Canfield plans on doing about this situation.

    The only reason I dealt with Brooklyn Hills and Shelba was because out of all the breeders that I contacted, she was the only one to continue to respond and answer all of my questions after initial contact. This dialogue went back and forth for about two months, because I was really worried about buying online, and the other breeders wouldn't return my emails. This was the first time that I dealt with a breeder as well, so I had lots of concerns and questions. Anyway, I felt comfortable with Canfield and that's who I decided to go with.

    I also did a search on her name and found no complaints against her or Brooklyn Hill Kennels. But now I'm wondering if she was even the real breeder or was she just an agent used to sell? In either case, I sympathize with your situation. Since Foxy has only been home for 4-weeks she shouldn't have had so many problems or I really lucked out.

    I took Monju to the vet the day after she came home and she got a thorough checkup and a clean bill of health. And she was checked for parasites through fecal exams, which came out negative.

    Hopefully, Shelba Canfield will stand by the Brooklyn Hill Health Policy and at least offer to cover some of the vet's bills.

    Please keep us updated and I hope Foxy gets better soon, too. And I would really like to know how Mrs. Canfield responds.
  • YukikoYukiko
    Posts: 452
    If you signed a contract, check to see exactly what the breeder says on it. The one we signed said we had to get her checked within 72 hours of business days in order for the "guarantee" to be valid. Good luck! She sure is adorable!

    *edit: to specify, check the contract not to return her but to have the breeder possibly help with some bills.http://queenshiba.tumblr.com
    Post edited by Yukiko at 2011-05-14 07:50:33
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Alex, I'm very happy to see that someone else felt as good as I did about dealing with Shelba. I really didn't want to believe I was so taken! She was soooo nice and very informative. I have a letter in my head that is being formed about how I'm going to deal with this. I'm going to be sending it to Shelba along with copies of the bills no later than tomorrow. With all the care I'm giving to Foxy right now & work I haven't really had the time to deal with her. I'm not going to call her like I was initially as I feel a letter along with some pictures of her wounds and cone will come across much better than just my words. I'll post a copy of the letter when I'm done.

    Yukiko, I know it's too late for me to recoup any $$ based on our contract and I really don't care so much about that at this point. I will include it in my letter but I certainly won't be expecting anything from her. I just want her to know that I will be spreading the word about her and will not be referring her to anyone else.

    Thanks for all your support... Foxy's hair is growing back in as I've been keeping her in a t-shirt when she's not wearing the cone so that she can't keep scratching her bald patches.. I think she was a bit depressed about it yesterday as she wasn't very playful and didn't eat or drink much throughout the day...but was much better in the evening. She ate all her dinner which I love because then I give her Cottage Cheese with her vitamin supplements and feel good that she is eating all that. She's pooping solid and peeing which I'm also grateful for and feel we caught the Giardia early because we haven't had to deal with the vomiting or diarrhea that comes with it.
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    Alex, that's really too bad that other breeders were not willing to answer e-mails. I think when it comes to breeders, a phone call is still a good idea, even given the ubiquity of the internet, but it wouldn't have been so hard for other breeders to just fire off an e-mail of acknowledgment that says "Hi, got your e-mail. Busy at the moment, here's some attachments about my kennel and my policies, I'll get back to you." Anyway, sounds like Shelba Canfield is an effective salesperson and very nice... but so are most salespeople whose *job* it is to be nice to you. This is how she makes her living, and so she has no reason to acknowledge the exploitative nature of the system.

    The thing about puppy mill dogs is that sure, many of them make it out of there and into the arms of loving new owners just fine, with no immediate health issues. Puppy mills couldn't continue to operate as a business if they were sending out nothing but sick animals, after all! But the chances of their dogs developing problems are greater. If something happens further down the line, you have nowhere to turn. And this is to say nothing of the puppies that died and were discarded along the way, or the poor conditions that your pup's parents will live for their entire lives.

    I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad for what's already been done. But I think that those that were "lucky" (like myself with Bowdu) are lucky only to have immediate relief. I often hear/read comments like "Well MY puppy mill dog didn't have any issues and lived to be 15 years old, " etc. etc. And I'm glad that not every pet owner has to deal with all these troubles or other, more serious health issues. Yet, I want to be clear that it's no defense against breeders like this or the system as a whole.

    Good to hear about Foxy's improvements. Hope she gets better soon and can get back to being a puppy!
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    I appreciate your comments Curlytails and know that you're coming from a good place! I never want anyone else to be duped the way I feel I've been and hope that by others reading this thread they won't be.
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    I appreciate your comments Curlytails and know that you're coming from a good place! I never want anyone else to be duped the way I feel I've been and hope that by others reading this thread they won't be.
  • Alex575Alex575
    Posts: 171
    Foxylover, yes, Shelba was very informative and sounded trust worthy. We'll see how she responds, if at all, although I'm not expecting much but I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'm just hoping that Foxy will get better and that this is the only stuff that she'll endure. And if Brooklyn Hills Kennels and Shelba Canfield doesn't want to work with you toward an acceptable solution, you can always write a review on Yelp! At least when people do a search for her name or the kennel, it'll bring up the review. Let's hope it'll be resolved, however. And we can also start a thread in the "members only" section about it, too.

    And we shouldn't beat ourselves up over it. We didn't know at the time what to do and how to proceed. And the Brooklyn Hill Kennels contract states that the pups they sell must be checked with a vet within 5-days, so maybe if your vet can write a letter stating that Foxy's issues where present during that time but only developed now will help strengthen your case about getting some reimbursement for vet costs. Keep us posted! :-)

    M.C., I think we really did get lucky! Every time I read about someone's Shiba developing a health issue on the forum, I thank my lucky stars that Monju is doing well. It's a learning process and I definitely would do things differently next time. But like Oprah says, "When you know better, you do better."

    The thing about the other breeders that I contacted -- I should have just called them -- but I was feeling them out because I never dealt with a breeder before or buying a pet of any kind, and even with Canfield, I didn't call her until about a month or so after emailing back and forth. I had so many questions, and I know that breeders are busy with mating, grooming, and showing their Shibas, but they could've just acknowledge that they received my emails and said they were busy. They seemed to only respond on the first email and that was it! All others went unanswered. One had no pups available and said I would go on a waiting list...no other mention or anything for 5-months and then BAM! I get an email saying one-pup ready to go $1500. Like I was just going to buy the pup without even seeing so much as a picture. I was flabbergasted!

    One of my friends told me that I'd have to understand that these breeders aren't business people and that they do this as a hobby, which is understandable, but come on. Who would buy something for $1500 without even seeing it or getting any information on it?

    Perhaps if the breeders had some kind of FAQ sheet or something along those lines that they could send out in an emails, because I'm sure that first time buyers would have no idea what to expect and would have a lot of the same questions. But you're so right about the mills, M.C, and the risk of those dogs developing health issues. Let's knock wood that there are no big surprises coming down the turnpike. :-)
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Below is a copy of the e-mail that I just sent to Shelba. We'll see how she responds..... I'll keep you posted.

    Shelba,
    I purchased Taylor from you and received her on 4/13/11. Last we spoke you asked me to be sure to send you pictures. Well I'm attaching pictures for you to view but I'm sure they are not the pictures that you were expecting to see nor the kind that you'll put on your website for all to see.

    You see, the day after I got her home I noticed a very large tick under her armpit and took her to the vet to have it removed and tested for Lyme Disease. There is no way she could have gotten that in the 24 hours that she was here especially with how large the tick was. I was willing to let that go and not bring it to your attention. However, I have now had to take her back to the vet on 5-10-11 for not only her regular shots but because she couldn't stop scratching and was so uncomfortable. She had several spots on her that had to be scraped and she tested positive for Mange. I'm still waiting for the results of whether it's Localized or Generalized. I'm praying that it's the Localized and that she won't have to endure the weekly medicated dips that Generalized Mange needs. So far I'm giving her daily medication and she wears a cone while it seeps into her skin.

    Then as if the Mange wasn't bad enough, I received news from my vet that she also tested positive for Giardia. I'm having to give her medication for that as well. The Girardia generally takes weeks for the incubation process, so again, I feel that she came from your kennel with all these issues.

    I got suspicious about your kennel as how could this poor puppy have such problems in the four weeks that I've had her and found this on the internet:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n81CI3R9YyE

    As you can see, this certainly portrays a different picture than the one your website would like people to believe about your kennel and in seeing this, it's not hard to believe that she would have these issues.

    I'm very disappointed that so far the experience I've had with this puppy has been nothing but vet visits and medications followed by the poor thing not wanting to eat and sleeping most of the time due to the medications. She is going to be behind in her growth as she can barely keep her food down.

    I do not want to return her to you as I feel she is in a better place with me and I love her dearly, however, I do feel that you have some responsibility to at least pay for the tests/medications that I've incurred due to these illnesses. I've attached copies of the bills and based on my calculations, you owe me $473.64.

    I truly hope that you do the right thing here and reimburse me for this so that I don't have to take further action in exposing this situation.

    Feel free to respond by e-mail or call me at (714) 634-xxxx hm (714) 357-xxxx cell.

    Sincerely,
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    Ah damn. that video shows that this place is clearly a puppy mill. I'm so sorry. I doubt you'll get money out of this person, but I hope for the best for you, and Foxy.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Wow, good for you for sticking up to her though. I hope she will offer you some type of compensation.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Thanks! If she makes no attempts to make this right then at least I'll feel better in making sure that I put the word out there in every way I can about her and her kennel. She has a Facebook too.

    On a happy note, Foxy is in a much better mood today! She's been very playful and ate almost all her breakfast and did eat all her lunch which almost never happens. I gave her a water bath this morning which helped get a lot of her loose fur off her. I feel she's on the mend and am hoping that after this we'll be done with the bad news for awhile. I'm slightly concerned about what type of Mange she has since I'm starting to see another spot on her back that looks likes the hair is disappearing. I'm putting Goodall on it anyway just in case. I really hope it's not Generalized Mange!!!
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    I think it's a very well-written, strong letter. Good job. I'm just as anxiously anticipating her response... and the results of the mange test.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1814
    @ Foxylover: Well written and to the point....I am so glad you took the time to follow up.

    If this is the actual facility, the video is disturbing given the fact that one sees behavior issues (even at a distance that are not normal) which is often are a result of over confinement, if not genetic.

    Keep us posted
    Snf
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    I received a call from Shelba tonight. She was very shocked by my letter and said that she had no problem sending me a check for the money that I've spent on Foxy's issues or if I wanted a replacement. I assured her that I am way too attached to this puppy especially with all the nursing care I've been giving her to send her back. She was mortified by the video and while she didn't say that it wasn't her place she tried to defend what's being depicted there. She said that she gets regular surprise inspections and has always passes with no problems. She also offered to let me speak to her Vet or have my Vet contact them... She seemed genuinely upset (concerned) over all the issues that Foxy is having. She was surprised she missed the tick before sending her and didn't doubt that she came with it being they were in AK but the other two Mange & Giardia she said that she's never had a problem with either of those before. Yet she wasn't fighting me on anything.

    I have to say in talking to her again, she sounded genuinely concerned and upset that Foxy is having these problems and she just wanted to make the situation right. (Though I'm sure she doesn't want me out there showing the pics I have of Foxy's Mange and other issues out there on the internet for all to see.)

    I told her that I'd keep in touch and let her know what type of Mange that she is diagnosed with when I get the results this week. Overall I feel very satisfied that she's willing to reimburse the $$ that I've spent on these issues.

    Again, thanks everyone for your input and concern over this situation.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    I'm so glad you'll be getting the money back! That's really good news.

    I wonder if this place is kind of like where I got Bel from. Looks like your place is a puppy mill for sure, and Bel's place was kind of the line: not nearly so big, but still there were several different breeds, and while they were all clean and not being mistreated, they also weren't being socialized, etc. Anyway, I say this because even though Bel's breeder wasn't great, she was pretty good about being in contact, and when I had problems with Bel, she offered to take her back. I guess what I'm getting at here, is that even places that are less than ideal, and that really are puppy mills, may still have people who have a scrap of decency in them, and thus are willing to do some things right. This doesn't mean people should get dogs from them, but it does mean that it might even be easier to be fooled, because people running these places may not seem like obviously bad people, you know what I mean?

    Anyway, I'm glad you'll be getting some money to cover your vet bills, and keep us posted on Foxy!
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    I'm glad she was so responsive. You documented your complaints very well, so they were kind of hard to dispute, after all.

    Herein lies my quandary with puppy mills. At the end of the day, the people who run these businesses are still people with families and friends and probably dogs that they would call pets of their own. They just happen to make their living in a manner that I find morally reprehensible, even though this is regarded as acceptable practice in parts of the country that are more resistant to change.

    The fact that she passes inspections means very little, as the standards for what passes are pretty low. It's actually really hard to completely shut down a puppy mill based on violations alone. If there was any viable alternative for them to make a living, I would hope that they’d take it. But obviously it’d take massive infrastructural and cultural changes to make these people dismantle their operations and switch to a less exploitative livelihood.

    ... well, it's late. Stepping off my soapbox for tonight.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • shibahiroshibahiro
    Posts: 977
    Glad everything worked out. Keep us updated on Foxy!
  • YukikoYukiko
    Posts: 452
    Glad the breeder responded and it worked out! Can't wait to see more pictures of Foxy. =)http://queenshiba.tumblr.com
  • vnovikovavnovikova
    Posts: 532
    So glad she responded and is willing to help you out with the bills. Now let's wish Foxy a speedy recovery and no medical issues in the future!!!
  • lockshi3lockshi3
    Posts: 628
    Glad she didn't hesitate on paying for your puppy's bills. So sad that she tried to defend that her place really wasn't the way it was depicted in the video... it is pretty clear it is a puppy mill. Best wishes for a speedy recovery for Foxy
  • Alex575Alex575
    Posts: 171
    Yay! Great and effective letter, Foxylover!

    And I'm glad that Shelba has agreed to pay for some of the medical bills! At least she didn't try and cut and run, but let's wait until the check clears before we start celebrating (it's the cynic in me).

    But keep us updated on Foxy's condition. :-) I'm glad she seems to be doing much better, and hopefully soon, she'll be 100%.
  • Adonia1986Adonia1986
    Posts: 451
    How is Foxy doing? Did you learn which type of mange she has?Stefanie & Sakura Twin Cities - MN
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Adonia,
    I wish I could say that she's getting better but it seems to be worse. I found a new spot on her back when I got home last night. My boyfriend watched her yesterday and said that he used the zoom groom on her and got a huge pile of hair off of her. I can believe it because she looks terrible. She is 13 weeks and I don't think is blowing a coat at this young age but the hair is coming off like crazy. I'm taking her back to the vet at 10:30 today for a re-check. The culture should also be done growing now so they should be able to tell me what type of Mange she has.

    Here's more pics that I took of her a few minutes ago. I'll post the same of her eye and arm then a couple of the new ones and her mangy looking fur )0:

    Same eye spot as before:
    http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh295/Rondeschic/Foxy/FoxyEyeSpot5-17.jpg

    Same arm spot (these were the areas they scraped last time)
    http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh295/Rondeschic/Foxy/FoxyarmSpot5-17.jpg

    Here's a couple new spots on her back:
    http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh295/Rondeschic/Foxy/FoxyBackSpot5-17.jpg
    http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh295/Rondeschic/Foxy/FoxyBackSpot25-17.jpg

    Here are just some of her mangy looking fur:
    http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh295/Rondeschic/Foxy/Foxymangyfur5-17.jpg
    http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh295/Rondeschic/Foxy/FoxySideView15-17.jpg
    http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh295/Rondeschic/Foxy/FoxySideView5-17.jpg

    Now just one for fun that I took the other night while cuddling with her. As you can see all she wanted to do was lick, lick, lick!!!

    http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh295/Rondeschic/Foxy/Foxylicklicklicking.jpg
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Oh also, I did receive a cashiers check from Shelba in the mail yesterday as promised. I'll be sure to send her these new pictures and copies of the next round of bills later today also (0:
  • KibaInuKibaInu
    Posts: 214
    My pup started to lose his puppy fur around that age. I wouldn't say that all of that fur loss is due to mange although im sure it does play a role. He's around 16 weeks and is still shedding each time i brush him.
  • vnovikovavnovikova
    Posts: 532
    My Nami started shedding her puppy fur too. She's 14 weeks now. Foxy looks so much like her!!! I really hope she feels better soon and you can enjoy the puppyhood without the stress of medical problems!
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    Well unfortunately because of the bald patches she is now with the vet for her first medicated dip then will need to go back for 4 weeks )0: Another shot of antibiotics because her culture came back positive for parasites and some other oral medication.

    I think the only thing I can be happy about today is not having to put the smelly goop on her bald spots.

    My poor baby!

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Who's Online (1)