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Supplements
  • karashakarasha
    Posts: 110
    Hey guys.

    I wanted to see if these supplements will "jive" well with my feeding.

    AM - Orijen
    PM - Primal Chicken (will start to rotate her when she's a little older)
    Weekly - Raw chicken bones

    Supplements:
    Grizzly Salmon Oil
    Organic Probiotic Yogurt
    Sold Gold Seameal

    I was considering getting a probiotic supplement, but I really rather get it from the yogurt for some reason instead.

    Also, my breeder gave me some NuVet supplements for her. While, I respect my breeder and her decisions, for some reason I really feel more comfortable with my choice of supplements. Especially since I am going to be feeding her a high quality kibble + raw. Also, not to mention, for a 180 day supply of the tablets, it's over a 100 dollars.

    What are ya'lls opinions on this set up?
    Post edited by sunyata at 2011-09-21 16:49:12
  • I feed my dogs raw only (mostly chicken) and I also give them salmon oil, and Seameal. Sometimes I give them Missing Link instead of Seameal (if I run out of SeaMeal--it's not always easy to find in town). I feel like I should give them a probiotic, but don't do it regularly.

    So I think you've got a pretty good line up there. I would think that the probiotic yogurt would be a good choice,and I might have to start doing that myself--my dogs go crazy for yogurt! I personally don't think you need the NuVet with what you've got, but that's just my thought. I'll be interested to hear what other people have to say too.
  • Adonia1986Adonia1986
    Posts: 451
    I don't really have much experience with supplements, but I would be cautious with the yougurt, I know some dogs are dairy sensitive and a dairy sick puppy does not sound like it would be fun.Stefanie & Sakura Twin Cities - MN
  • jujeejujee
    Posts: 882
    I may stop using Solid Gold Sea Meal as it was recently bought out. I still use salmon oil, and will be using Nupro instead :) I'm still researching different types of supplements.
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    Conker gets prey-model raw. He gets Grizzly Salmon Oil daily and Ark Natural's Gentle Digest (probiotic) every other or every three days.
  • lockshi3lockshi3
    Posts: 628
    i just give salmon oil
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    Posts: 3105
    I would forgo the NuVet based on what you are feeding & supplementing.
    LJ - owned by Queen Jazz, a Shiba Inu, Atlanta, GA
    CSC_0144
  • karashakarasha
    Posts: 110
    Ok... glad I least have some support from SIF members :) I just really

    I'll look into the Ark's Natural Gentle Digest and also pick up a 100 IUs of Vitamin E. Also, I guess I'll forgo the solid gold seameal for now until I can read more about them.

    So I guess in conclusion:

    Grizzly Salmon Oil
    Ark's Natural Digest
    100 IU's of Vitamin E

    Thanks guys! :)
  • KaylaKayla
    Posts: 163
    yay for the grizzly salmon oil! Kayla gets a nice squirt of it on her TOTW kibble every night and wolfs it down.

    @jujee - Thanks for the info on the seameal being bought out. I was about to buy it!
  • jujeejujee
    Posts: 882
    Np. I just found out myself that Solid Gold was bought out by another company and they already changed the formula of the seameal. I don't know if the changes will have any ill effects on the dogs, but I don't want to take any chances. I am still using what I purchased last June before the buyout.

    Been talking to my local holistic dog nutritionist and I'm going to probably look at few different supplements she recommends. Her golden is 13 years old and still acts like a puppy.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Saya is on prey model raw and only supplements she gets is solid gold sea meal I got it some time in November so I guess it's fine.. What company bought it out?

    I only give the sea meal with Saya's eggs and ground meat.

    Saya eats whole Saury fish every so often which smells really fishy and she also gets eggs she just ran out of her grass fed beef and lamb meat can't wait for may when the farmer's market opens so I can buy more grass fed organs and meat..

    What your feeding looks good I see no reason to buy the nu vet stuff at all my breeder told me I should buy it, but I didn't see a need to buy it since Saya ate decent quaility kibble and got salmon oil, and solid gold seameal with her kibble..

    I think they push the nu vet because they get a % of money if the owner buys the supplement..

    If you can find it chicken feet are a yummy chewy treat natural source of condrotine and glucosamine or how ever you spell it.. lol Saya loves chicken feet.

    eatwild.com has a list of local farmers in your state I found a few near me.

    hare-today.com sells raw food yummy things some I can get at the groceries, butcher, or meat processor, but some is hard to find like tripe, pancreas, whole prey items, and goat.

    Saya loves the tripe a lot she gets it once a week. I plan to get 5lbs of it on my next order.

    With good kibble I don't think there's much need to supplement too much maybe just salmon oil and if you want probiotics or something like that.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
    Post edited by Saya at 2011-03-28 20:57:15
  • karashakarasha
    Posts: 110
    Thanks everyone and thanks Saya for all of the good information!

    My best bet is to probably to talk with my Holistic vet as well to get his input on a lot of these things :)
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    I wanted to bump this thread and ask a question.

    I have just started a raw diet for my boys. I do not expect to have easy access to feeding wild game real often and buying range fed meat is probably on the long term cost prohibitive.

    Right now, the only supplement I am adding to their diet occasionally, not even on a regular basis, has been Ark Naturals Gentle Digest. This started more when they were on kibble and I was working on loose stools. Actually these last few days on raw their poos look 1000000% better than they ever were on kibble and I am actually probably in need of reducing bone content a bit more (first week we went with approx a 20-25% bone content during transition after calculating out the chicken parts we fed).

    I do want to use fish as one of the proteins (maybe once a week or so), but I am recently under the impression from things I have read that even with a prey raw model diet many people supplement with Salmon Oil as fish is only a small part of the diet and won't provide enough overall balance of Omega 3's that will be needed.

    What brands of Salmon Oil are good supplements and how do I use this along with the raw diet (ie how often, how much) to be sure I have a decent balance?

    Additionally, I noticed posters referring to Gold Sea Meal, what is this?
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    I use fish oil capsules for humans. Conker gets two (1,200mg) a day due to his various issues, but one (1,000mg) should work for most Shibas. I bought mine bulk from this place but their prices have gone up since I purchased mine and are no longer as good of a deal as they were. You can probably pick up some capsules from the grocery to try, or order some online.
    Giving a bit of Vitamin E along with fish oils is generally recommended since the Omegas can deplete E in the body. But it's not that big of a deal unless you are feeding larger amounts, like I tend to do with Conker. So some E every now and then would work instead of daily.

    I don't use Solid Gold's Sea Meal. It's basically kelp and some other things. I do supplement with kelp, but I use straight kelp (for humans, again), and only supplement up to half of the requirement for iodine. I won't use any kelp supplements made for pets since a lot of them don't have that listed, and you can mess up a dog's thyroid by giving too much.
  • Banjo (7.5 months old) got a bout of diarrhea (and messed his create... first time he's ever done #2 in doors let alone the crate. I felt terrible so I boarded him with his trainer for the weekend so I knew he would be able to play with his dog friends and have 24/7 care from someone he trusts. I had unchangeable plans this weekend so it was better than daycare or crating him while I wasn't home).

    He's been on a boiled chicken and rice diet since friday and his poop has been doing better. I've added in a prescription from the doc and a little kibble as we make the transition back to full kibble. His stomach is awfully touchy so I am afraid of making the switch to raw until I can monitor him for the full transition as I never want him to be in his own feces again.

    I was wondering if anyone has used Missing Link supplement before? Right now I am feeding him Missing Link with boiled chicken and rice. I am going to put him back on blue buffalo wilderness chicken puppy food, but I am torn... is boiled chicken and rice with missing link a "complete diet"? If so, is it better than kibble?

    Here are the ingredients:

    http://www.missinglinkproducts.com/images/Puppy-Health_SuppFacts.jpg
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @BanjoTheBetaDog

    Do you happen to know or think you have an idea of what caused the diarrhea?

    Boiled chicken and rice is only good for temporary relief for the dog's stomach. Even with supplements it will not be a good "complete diet" - cooking meat gets rid of the nutrients, and rice is just a filler. Kibble would be better. Raw is the absolute best.

    :P
  • I started to switch him from Blue Wilderness Puppy to Acana all life stages (before i decided on raw) The acana upset his stomach so I slowed down the transition.

    Also, he could have just eaten geese poop when I wasn't paying attention or when someone had him out for a walk. If I had to bet the mortgage, I would guess he ate some dirt or something off the ground, but since I am in the process of a food switch, I am honestly not sure (I am going to keep him on blue buffalo wilderness puppy until I can get a week off from work for the transition).
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @BanjoTheBetaDog

    At what speed were you transitioning him?
  • days 1-3: 1 part new, 3 parts old
    day 4-6: 1/2 part new, 3.5 parts old
    day 7: onset of diarrhea and abandoned plan.

  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I never done full on home cooked diet so can't offer tons of help. I got that recipe book from honest kitchen which has some recipe for dogs, cats and even some can be fed to human and dog fine.. I made one of the recipes it was tasty coarse my portion on plate got some seasoning while dogs were plain.

    this forum can be helpful
    http://www.dogforums.com/dog-food-forum/

    the user Kathyy is pretty informed on things and I'm sure there might be some who do home cooked diet or partial that can offer help.

    Kathyy is also on dogster, but it goes by owners dog for profile her dogs name is maxx and ginger.

    dogster has a homecooking section which can be helpful and can ask questions on it.
    This page might be helpful. there is other stuff like recipe on there too.
    http://www.dogster.com/forums/Home_Prepared_Food_Recipes/thread/640881

    I used to like dogster, but it's gotten bad with ads once they were going to shut down the forum now they are keeping the forum, but still millions of spam from companies for stuff..

    Still there is some decent info on it.

    Some dogs have had issues with orijen and acana either due to the higher protein or the legumes. The new formulas now has legumes.
    orijen
    (chickpeas, red lentils, green lentils, green peas, pea fiber)
    acana
    (green peas, red lentils, field beans, and pea fibre)

    I'd transition to it slower and if it doesn't work out might need go back to last brand.

    Probiotic might be needed that can help with transitioning sometimes.

    Dink my old dog used to be on beneful her whole life so not used to change it took much longer compared to Bella. Coarse Dink was older 13 or 14 I forgot so that probably one reason why.

    I never tried probiotic before, but read it has helped with some dogs. there is arknaturals gentle digest and there is few other brands.
    http://www.arknaturals.com/gentle-digest-probiotic-capsule

    Some use human kind too, but I don't know the kind or amount for dog so can't help on that.

    There is new brand out called farmina so far a lot of people are trying it out I asked for sample from their FB page. Samples are being sent out late so haven't gotten it yet, but I don't mind the wait.. I plan to get a 5lb bag once Saya's kibble treats get low.

    It's bit pricey on the grain free line, but probably about same as acana I dunno.

    Only place selling it is chewy.com so far it's still new to usa. the company is Italian based..

    Since it will be a low value treat I can't really comment on how Saya would do on it full time. I might get small bag to try for Bella and if she does good on it get the big bag.

    So far lots on the dogforums seem like it.

    Acana is nice brand, but some dogs have issue with it maybe too rich or something.

    One reason I plan to try farmina is no peas, lentils or chickpeas in the ingredients which is nice. kinda seems to be the trend lately kibble changing formulas and adding lentils..

    Luckily Totw hasn't had it in their other lines except the boar one which I don't feed.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
    Post edited by Saya at 2014-04-15 14:08:22
  • Saya, THANKS!! From all I have heard, Blue Buffalo is a good company with good products, so I am going to stay on there formula for the time being. That being said, i am gong to compare ingredients between the two to see if I can isolate what gave my fur monster a tummy ache. =)
    Post edited by BanjoTheBetaDog at 2014-04-15 15:21:40
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @BanjoTheBetaDog

    Between day 1-3 and 4-6 why did you decrease the amount of the new kibble? Was it because of the diarrhea?

    Since you are trying to transition between two different brands, sometimes dogs just get diarrhea because they have sensitive stomachs. It isn't always because of the ingredients, but since you mentioned it, was the proteins the same?

    I would suggest the following. Day 1-3 feed 1 part new, 3 parts old. Observe the stools to see if there are any changes. If no change. Proceed to 1.5 part new, 2.5 parts old. then gradually increase the new, decrease the old by half parts. If there are changes to the stool, wait a little longer before increasing the ratios.

    Definitely add Probiotic to help with the transition, or give him some pumpkin.
  • @bootz

    Yes, I lowered it due to diarrhea. The proteins were similar, but not identical (chicken, turkey, etc, although acana includes quite a bit of fishes like herring).
  • I would be a little cautious about them. They haven't had anything recently, but they have had a lot of recalls in the past.

    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/6510#Item_5

    I don't know how legit these complaints are but I also saw this (was trying to find past forum posts about the Blue Buffalo recalls).

    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/blue_buffalo.html

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