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Biting woes, please help.=[
  • Okay so have had Hachi almost a full week now, 9 weeks old and so much fun! But he has a terrible biting issue. I've had puppies before and i know they are like snappy little alligators but he bites pretty hard. I know he is playing, but it hurts! I've tried the "ouch" method, just keeps chomp'n. I've tried trading for treats and toys. Nothing hand is much yummier. And I don't know if this makes any difference but he was a single pup litter of a first time mother. I have him enrolled in puppy kindergarten and he does well but he is so chompy with people! It's a problem because since Shiba puppies are little attention beacons people "awwwe" and google over him and want to pet him but he would rather naw on their fingers. What is the best way to tackle this? He is very smart he is already practically house broken, and know sit, down, come, and bed. I’ve tied frozen towels and an assortment of toys, just not cutting it =[. I want people to be able to pet my bundle of joy as well as myself!
    Post edited by notoriousscrat at 2012-12-12 17:02:13
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
    Well it's only been a week, and these things take time. With persistence and patience he'll learn that mouthing a human is a no no. First off, you may want to try to stick to one method for now, as doing too many different things in a sort amount of time can confuse the pup and not get your message across.

    With the "ouch" method, what do you do? Do you walk away when he bites, or just sit there and keep squeaking? Walking away or placing the puppy in time out for about 30 seconds when he starts to bite should help.

    Until his mouthing is under control, it would probably be best to not let strangers pet him. Not everyone would react the same way to a puppy mouthing them, and the more he gets to bite without "being told" it's wrong the more reinforcement he gets for doing it.
  • Ok my dog's name is Hachi too and she looooooved to nip when she was a puppy. Find a good method that works for you and the pup and be persistent.. I was also very worried too and nothing was working. They do eventually learn and it really goes away. I tried the loud ouch and walking away.. I would pretend i was crying and pretending how in pain I was and she would start licking my bite. If you search for this topic you will find so much info and other methods.
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 1165
    FWIW, Patricia McConnell had a specific chapter in her book about puppies born as a single litter in "Other End of the Leash". I suggest you go check it out and read it because it very well describes the importance of siblings growing up together and what they learn from each other. Puppies learn bite inhibition early in life from their siblings. Biting them and being bit tells them how strong to bite and siblings also teach each other how to cope with the stresses of shared spaces and resources (food), give and take, play, etc. Your puppy very likely did not have to deal with these types of situations growing up which is probably why you are having a harder time with the techniques you've seen in this forum. My suggestion is that you get him on puppy play dates...a lot, and consult a behaviorist early to keep tabs on his social development.

    Found a link (not to Dr. McConnell's book but a behavioral blog post):

  • Just want to give some moral support...My puppy is 8.5 mos and is doing great now, BUT OMG I went through a very rough biting phase - I would cry...I secretly thought I had a "bad" puppy sometimes :)

    It DOES get better even if you don't believe it now...BUT, as everyone has said you need to be very consistent. I concur, the ouch method should be paired with a short time out (with no emotion from you :) and no attention. Try to be aware of your hands too...I noticed a lot of people I would tell them to stand up straight and dont "give" him your hands to chew on in the first place, but people constantly stick hands in puppies face, point in his face and can't figure out why he's biting their hands...:)

    ...get pets in when you can, but just don't expect at this age to sit down for a long petting, cuddle session...(but do "handle" him a lot...while feeding or treating..)

    Also want to agree with @Crimson02...puppy play is SOOOOO important, made a HUGE difference with Koj, let him wrestle his little heart out and bite and be bitten by other puppies, can not over emphasise - RUN dont' walk to puppy socialization...I actually enrolled Koj in two classes so had twice a week, also found friends neighbors anyone who'd let him will really really help a ton...

    Hand feeding also is very helpfull...hold food and if he bites hand "ouch"! and don't give to him till he's gentle..."Good boy!!"...I still hand feed first few bites and ask for sits, downs, high fives whatever...he works for his food and has to be polite...GOOD LUCK! Don't worry, with time, patience you'll have a good doggie...I totally feel your pain...
  • Wow...! I share your pain and know exactly what you are going through. Winnie was also a singleton, also from a first time "mother". Her mother was a very good mother, better than many and nurtured her so much that she even gave up her own food so that Winnie could nom-nom away .

    Here is what I did... The crying and yelping didnt work at all.... She thought it was funny and a game.

    What I did do was use butter and peanut butter (whatever she liked better) and would put some on my hands (palm and back) and let her lick. While she licked, i would repeatedly say "kisses". We did this for about 3 days straight, 3x a day... And she learned quickly that kisses meant to lick. Whenever she would bite at me, i would say "no" in my most convincingly MAD voice/face and then say "kisses". And then she would lick my hand and i would thank her for bring nice.

    It worked like a charm...
  • What a surprise! I didn't realize that the puppy biting was such a common problem. My Hime was also a single pup, and I figured that with no siblings, she didn't get enough feedback about biting. Yes, when I yelled "OUCH!" she would just bite down harder, unlike the lab puppy at puppy class who let go and jumped back. At one point I had so many scratches and cuts on my hands and forearms I had some serious doubts about my handling Hime. But as everyone else stated, it does get better, and consistency and time are the keys.

    Hime is now 10.5 months, but as I recollect, she phased out of the biting stage around 4-5 months, soon after she got used to her permanent teeth. Recently, I think the adolescent stage is kicking in and she's biting/chewing everything around the house. Nothing is safe, so I must be very diligent.

    I would strongly agree with the others that puppy socialization is very helpful. I think Shibas tend to play a little rough, baring teeth and having the tendency to paw other dogs in the face so socializing with other Shibas was the most fun and helpful to her. Myamamo's idea on peanut butter is a great one! I'll try that on my next puppy!
  • We went through this - early on 3-4 mos no puppy biting, then from 4-5 mos, nothing but biting. Ow and Yelp never worked for us - just made it worse even though Jack wasn't an only pup. Getting up and walking away worked better but he still wanted to show us he loved us by gnawing our hands and nipping at us. Around 6 mos all his teeth came in and he just lost interest in chewing us - but right around that point we started giving him bully sticks. It gets better, like everyone said to me when I was secretly crying that my first puppy was going to bite me and my guests and ninja attack me while I'm sleeping for years. He still mouths but it's very gentle. Who knows, maybe he will regress and start biting me again. :) I'll let you know since Jack's only on the cusp of 7 mos - but so far, so good. It will get better, find something that works (get up and stop play, or what Myamamo suggests, wish I had thought of that when it was bad) and the lesson we had to learn was just stay consistent and patient - that was the hardest part, making myself stop worrying.
  • Resurrecting this thread to ask about my puppy...

    So I did a bunch of research before bringing Kaya home, and I was all prepared to use Dr. Dunbar's method for bite inhibition training. For those who don't know - it's yelling "Ow!" and then ignoring the puppy/re-directing to an appropriate chew toy. Unfortunately, I don't think it's working. Kaya doesn't often get "too" bitey - but occasionally she gets super excited and will leap right at you - mouth open - and clamp down on whatever her teeth hit (and it HURTS). When she does that, I yell "OW!", but that just gets her more excited. I'll stand up and maybe move to the couch, but she just tries to jump up, and when she can't, she barks at us. A few times, when she's started biting too hard, I've quickly put her into her crate for a "time out" - not more than a minute or so. This way, she settles down. When I let her out, I make her do "sit" and "down" before we resume playing. Is this a good method? I think this might work if I stay consistent, but I'm worried about making her crate a punishment. IS it okay, if I just put her in there for a 1-2 minute time out?
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Saying ouch, yiping and so on works for some puppies and some it doesn't and make them more excited.

    Maybe try leaving the room for few second and then return?

    I'm not sure if time out in crate will create negative experience with it. Maybe if you got very frustrated and made a big deal about it or yelled at the dog. Not saying you do, but the dogs I've own that hated the crate my dad didn't do things right and did things above.. Made the dogs hate the crate.

    I think a bit of a time out in crate to cool down is fine if you do it calmly.

    Time out can be done in other ways too, but not sure I've never done either ones..
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    @Hummingbird, wish I could give a magic answer.

    Bear is almost 1 year old and with me and my husband he still is mouthy. I can tell you though that the ouch method alone doesn't work, it actually excites him into nipping at us in the air and then back onto the hand or leg or foot.

    He also does not allow strangers to touch him, if a stranger reaches to him he backs off and bows like he would to another dog as an offer to run, bite, play. He is so quick no one has opportunity to touch him. We are not around many people, so have never had opportunity to focus on others handling him and we haven't felt a need to prioritize it in our lifestyle. He does best meeting people if they just ignore him long enough.

    That said, we are still working on the ignore him when he is trying to get our attention via biting and trying to remind him when playing mouthiness is a "ah ah" (no no) choice. The more we move the body part he is biting and the more we raise our excitement (even in saying owwww or ah ah or moving) the longer it takes to redirect him to a correct behavior.

    So, while we haven't found the magic, we have noticed a low non-excited "ah ah" when playing with a 30 second or more pause in the play is helping remind him not to be mouthy. We also know if we can manage to ignore him and not even move when he bites our legs/feet to get our attention that this is gradually working. Not always but more often he will now sit and put a paw up first to get attention, but if we don't give him the attention immediately he keeps trying other methods like biting.

    Consistency is key and I think in our case consistency in what we would prefer the action (ie to get our attention) is important. I actually glad this chain got bumped because I may try the kisses suggestion for training licking rather than biting that myamamo suggested.
  • @Saya - I don't think I've made it "too" negative the few times I've tried it. I think it will be more like a "See.... if you play to rough you have to go in there for a few minutes." I probably won't even yell at her (since that doesn't seem to affect her at all), and just say "Settle" or something as a warning, and if she doesn't settle down, I'll put her in.
  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    Is Sansa is getting too riled up, I'll put her in her crate for a minute or two. She gets the idea, but it hasn't seemed to create any negative associations with the crate, because she still goes in there when she's tired and wants to nap all the time.
  • I think your method sounds pretty good Hummingbird. That's what I'd try too. I do a version of this with my adult dogs when they are badly behaved. They still like their crates, too, so I don't think they take it too badly.

    Just keep trying and be consistent. It will stop, eventually, through a combo of learning and age!
  • Okay, I will give it a try! Thanks guys!

  • DebDeb
    Posts: 286
    I think the short time out in the crate is appropriate as long as it is a matter of fact, unemotional, non chalant placement of her in the crate. I found that crying out OUCH, ala Dunbar, made my Shiba boy when he was a little puppy think I was a squeeky toy and needed to be mouthed more. It was exciting to him and acted as though he thought it was a game. Ian Dunbar is well noted, but not Shiba specific. Shibas differ considerably in some things from other types of dogs and this issue is one of them. So, I went with the ah ah or oh oh calmly said and would ignore for a few minutes. That worked pretty well. I've also learned that a big yawn from me helps settle them down when play time is over. I like the butter/peanutbutter kissy move! Good one.
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
    Tatonka hates proximity (to me) so much that whenever he'd get bitey I'd put him in my arms in belly up baby position. He hated it so much (quietly suffering it) that he basically had a period when I'd see him come up to bite, literally change his mind and walk away.

    What a ham when a girl is doing it to him though.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Tatonka, whenever a girl is present he's a doll :)
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Teaching "kisses" is a great idea, and it's also really important at this stage for them to have regular contact with other puppies, if ONLY to help curb the teething on us.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • ekamin01ekamin01
    Posts: 29
    My 10 week old puppy Loki also thinks me saying "ouch" is a game and doesn't phase him at all. The first few times I yelped he did get the hint but later realized it was just a game. I now put him in the crate for a few minutes if he gets too hyper with the biting, it usually calms him down but later continues to play to rough. I'm still trying this method as the others have not worked. Any additional tips would be helpful
  • ShibaLoveShibaLove
    Posts: 554
    Sometimes the yelping can rile them up and gives them what they desire, attention. Try to ignore Loki instead of yelping. I would immediately get up of the ground or turn away from him when he bites or gets to rough.
  • I am definitely experiencing this with Ronin or at least I was until about a week ago. I have to say the biggest help was putting him with another puppy. From around 9 1/2 weeks until about 3 months old he was only around humans, once we introduced him to mischief (a toy Eskimo only a week older) he learned really quick that biting doesn't work if you want to play. I was concerned about him hurting the other puppy but he was fine and Mischief did not tolerate biting.
    The yelping and withdrawal method really wasn't working but now it is. Actually, now when I yelp and stop playing he immediately starts licking. I have to say I think playing with the other puppy is what changed everything (not sure how feasible a situation this is too create). I also keep frozen Nyla bones, chilly bones and um a wealth of chew toys around. I think this is super important with the puppies as they need relief from teething pain.
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    That is why puppy classes are so important as they typically include play sessions where the puppies learn how to play with little pups, big pups, shy pups, active pups thereby learning good play manners.
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
    If yelping doesn't work just continue what you're doing but get your hand out of his mouth, redirect, and maybe make it physically uncomfortable for them right afterwards (i.e. a hug). Tatonka hates hugs so much he stopped all mouthing after a while. His bite pressure during play is super good now.
  • kiba888kiba888
    Posts: 144
    Ignoring works if they're trying to play with you. However for Kiba, if he starts biting out of excitement -- I pick him up with my thumbs under his arm pits (so his teeth cant bite me) and lift him so his front feet are off the ground. I say NO firmly and look him in the eye; if he keeps struggling, I lift him completely off the ground. At this moment, he will struggle and continue to bite; I do not let him down until he is looking into my eyes and stops struggling. When you lower him down back on his back feet, if he attempts to bite again lift him back up and continue the process.

    This works well with puppies I think (never done it to adults). Warning, you may hear your shiba pup scream his head off, but that's because when you lift your pup off the ground he/she is losing complete control of balance and motor skills (They hate not being in control).

    By doing this, you don't hurt the puppy and you are able to quickly allow your puppy to correlate his biting to loosing complete control of himself.

    I hope this helps, it's helped me a ton with my 11 week old little guy.
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
    @kiba888, yep "waltzing" with them (front paws in your hands) is probably universally hated.
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    Kaji would bite when he'd get excited. I think it was his form of showing affection. I just told him, "no biting" and put a soft stuffed toy in his mouth. He got the hint after a while. Now when I give him lots of cuddles, he starts mouthing a toy near him, or a blanket, or something, but never my hands. Sometimes he'll start nibbling my clothes and I'll tell him, 'No biting' again and he's good. He is a huge chewer though, always chewing on something around the house, and always looking for a new game to play, so he keeps us on our toes!
  • HaloHalo
    Posts: 278
    Halo also is very chompy! Saying ouch and stuff doesn't work with her because it gets her even more hyper. If I get up and ignore her for biting me, she attacks my ankles. I'm so glad to hear they do grow out of it. She will chomp on my bf some, but it's mostly me she views as a personal chew toy. I did notice however her favorite toys are ones with squeakers, maybe she just likes hearing noise when she chomps??
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    @kiba888 - My trainer taught this as well, except a bit differently. She said if your puppy has lost total control and if they're still biting you after yelping, ignoring, etc is to pick them up from behind with your hands underneath their armpits, and softly "rock" them left and right until their hindlegs are totally relaxed and limp.
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    So far, for me, the only thing that works is completely and totally ignoring them like they don't exist.

    This can be quite hard, especially since it usually is followed by escalation of the biting, but this is good (believe it or not) because once the dog escalates through a series of behaviors and realizes it gets nothing they will eventually stop and you can reward the good behavior you want. Even negative attention, is that, attention, so you really need to try the ignoring the best you can and expect it to be escalated before it goes away.

    I watched our puppy trainer, who was working on the settle behavior where the dog chooses a place to lay down if you are sitting. This puppy escalated through biting at her legs and feet (she just moved them and continued to look away from the puppy talking to the owner like the puppy didn't exist), to biting at the box they were sitting on, to biting at the chair, but after about 5 minutes when none of this got him any attention at all he laid down and the trainer clicked and rewarded. The third and fourth time through the dog just began to lay down.

    What I am learning from this new school we are going to is that patience (and I mean patience) is the biggest key. I watch her train other puppies in class and you can see all of us owners looking at each other like that puppy will never do what she wants (because our patience isn't as long) and low and behold if she waits she does get the behavior and after 2 or 3 times she gets it faster and faster. All without any negative correction, not even a verbal "ah ah", which I think I depend on too much with my two dogs.
  • kiba888kiba888
    Posts: 144
    Kiba doesnt seem to like being held, he always mouths at my hands or forearms (seems to be a bite out of more annoyance than aggression). Any way to get him to stop this behavior? What is really weird though is that my friend corrected him with the neck scruff once and from this day forward -- kiba does not lay a teeth on him at all and is able to pick him up with no problems.
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    I would start by holding him at random times throughout the day. I would pick up Sagan when we're walking, when we're playing, when he's eating, or whenever. I wanted him to get used to getting picked up by me and not wriggle his way out. He definitely did not like it at first, but because I picked him up, and put him back down time and time again, he's more like, "ugh, this again? whatever" nowadays.
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
    Post edited by Rikka at 2013-04-03 21:02:09
  • Tre26Tre26
    Posts: 96
    Having some issues with Mazda still biting. Though she has improved.mShe turns eight months on Thursday. I know they are love bites and sometimes it is just that she is bored and wants attention. The other day when we were playing caught my thumb accidentally so I know now she isn't barring down completely when she nips at me. No blood because she released once she realized what happened...responded to OUCH!!! Any advice on how to completely extinguish this would be appreciated. I can relate to some of the things others have mentioned they have tried.

  • @Tre26 She's still young. Shibas can stay very mouthy up to about a year (at which point it should naturally subside at least somewhat). Just stay consistent. It sounds like she's responding to your saying "ouch," so just stay on that and she should keep improving. The other thing you can do is pointedly ignore here when she's doing it for attention and wait until she does something you want like sitting. Once she figures out that another behavior is more effective in getting what she wants, she'll be less likely to resort to biting.
  • devonmlewisdevonmlewis
    Posts: 182
    This is really helpful to read! Yuki is biting out of frustration when we're moving him to certain areas or putting his coat on him. They're things we can't ignore, and are working on his biting inhibition. I will definitely be picking him up behind the armpit area to reduce the chance of being bit, and will attempt that rocking back and forth until he's calm. That's a good idea! Also, I haven't been holding him in the cradle lately, so I'm wondering if that contributes to things.
  • niki82niki82
    Posts: 434
    Sora's favorite game in the morning is to begin nipping at my ankles as if to say"hurry up and take me outside!" It can get annoying but I have been persevering with redirecting her to chew on her toys instead while she waits for the 10min I take to feed the cats wake daughter up for school and get myself ready for the day.(ha ha! I have had to significantly shorten my morning rituals.) Anyway I have noticed that redirecting is slowly working as she isn't nipping at my ankles for as long. The past few mornings she nipped a few times then ran over to her toys and played until it was time to go. I used to try yelping but she would just get more excited by the noise so a firm no and redirecting to toys then a "good girl" when she begins to chew or play is working well for us st present.
  • LilikoiLilikoi
    Posts: 1269
    Haha aw cute little Sora. :D it makes me laugh when Ozzy is playing with his toys by himself. He tosses them around and chases them everywhere lol. He would also get more excited when we yelped. So we would always redirect to a toy, and if he just totally ignored the toy and still intentionally went for hands / feet, he would have mini time out in the kitchen (behind baby gate) for like 30 seconds to a minute. Every time he came out of mini time out he was eager to show me how soft he could be. xD we also taught "soft" by putting a little bit of peanut butter on our hand and having him lick it off. He is barely mouthy at all now, tho he loves to lick haha.
  • niki82niki82
    Posts: 434
    Yeah its been tough getting Sora to play on her own with her toys but we're getting there. Redirecting her toward her toys has helped. She has this long snake toy which she loves and lately has taken to carrying it everywhere! Its mainly in the morning that she gets nippy. She wakes up so excited about her day ahead and uses her teeth to hurry me up! But its not painful just annoying and potentially dangerous if she gets trod on whilst underfoot. I don't want to put her in her safe room as soon as she wakes up while i get ready as I don't think that its fair on her. Also when she starts playing and chewing she wrestles and runs around with her toys and it helps get some morning energy out of her so she doesn't pull at the beginning of our walks. I too use timeout though if she persists... She trys to bash down the baby gate. She's only in there for a minute but she seems to understand.
    Post edited by niki82 at 2016-04-04 22:25:50
  • LilikoiLilikoi
    Posts: 1269
    Yeah, Ozzy was the same way about being mouthy yet not biting hard, and if someone were to try to pull away it could've easily triggered an instinct to clamp down. There are a lot of children that he likes to play with here haha, so we've had to be pretty strict about biting and jumping because many kids find that very intimidating and interpret it as aggression rather than play. And if he went to mouth on them and give them "love nibbles" as he likes to, I'm sure they would try to jerk their hand back and I'd be scared he might think it's a fun "hold on to the hand and don't let go" game. Ozzy also understands after a very short time out every time. I wouldn't put him in for longer cus I want to continue to address the problem, so I don't want it to be "just stay here until you calm down," I want him to learn how to release his excitement in an appropriate way. I also think with a longer time out he could kind of forget or no longer associate it with the biting, so I always keep it short. Ozzy's mornings - afternoons he's pretty relaxed. But in the evening is when he gets super energetic and zoomy. xD
  • Reviving this thread for a bit of advice.

    I'm a little confused by one thing - do I not pull my hand away when Yuka is biting on it? Yuka is 8 weeks going on 9 weeks old, so she practically bites anything. Just putting our hands into her playpen to pet her or to stroke her for being a good girl gets us a bite. She is still young but her bite is starting to hurt. We've had her for almost a week now, and she's just learnt the Sit command.

    Just last night, I decided to not pull my hand away, so when she bit on my hand, I calmly and firmly told her no, tried to redirect her to her toys (both did not work), then finally tried to pull my hand away, and that made her clamp down harder on my hand. So now, do I pull my hand away when she bites? My partner and I instinctively react the same way when she bites - we pull our hands away in one quick movement, and I'm not sure if she thinks it's a game.

    I do know that yelping or saying ouch doesn't work on her. At first, yelping did, but after 1 day she decided it was nothing and continued mouthing and biting. Redirecting her to her toys does not work much either; she either chews on it for 1 second before going back to our hands/toes/ankles, but most times she pretty much ignores it. We have tried a time-out with her, which basically is to ignore her for a few seconds. We do this when she already is in her playpen, and when we go to touch her, she bites us. We then turn away and ignore her, but she acts as if there's nothing wrong, continues playing on her own, then biting us again when we stop the time-out.

    I would like to nip this in the bud as soon as I can, because I have this feeling that she could potentially be one of the dogs who nip at feet/ankles regardless, so long as it moves, as I've observed her tracking our feet when we walk around.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated! :)
  • LilikoiLilikoi
    Posts: 1269
    It might seem like nothing works, but what does work is being consistent. Even if you think saying ouch doesn't work, and redirecting doesn't work, stay consistent. She is a puppy, and Shiba puppies are very mouthy. Ozzy is nearly 8 months now and he's still really mouthy, just now in the way of licking instead of nibbling hah.

    The yelping thing didn't work for Ozzy either. The high pitch excited him. So I just opted for saying ouch, not shrieking it but still saying it like it really hurt. He has really good bite inhibition now, which I'm grateful for. Even if he's really excited and can't find a toy to go pick up, if he grabs my hand with his mouth or something, he just holds it, and i get a toy to replace it with.

    She's suuper young. All puppies are biters, it doesn't mean she'll be an ankle biter as an adult. It just means she's a normal puppy. :) I wouldn't jerk my hand away. To me, that's encouraging biting and reinforcing the behavior that you don't want by turning it into a fun game. I'd just ouch, and slowly trade my hand for a toy. If you can predict the times you expect her to bite, like when you're reaching into her pen, I would have a toy ready to offer her instead of a hand. I still often keep a toy in my pocket wherever I go, cus Ozzy loves to carry things in his mouth. I do pull my hand away slowly while exchanging for the toy. Just not jerk which kind of causes excitement and is fun to chase. Sometimes I would just get up and leave in a huff as if I were offended, and dramatically end play time when he was going for hands intentionally. When he got older, I would give very short 15 second or so time outs. Only if he was biting me intentionally. But while she's so young, she's going to be biting intentionally. She hasn't learned that it's a rude behavior. Like a baby that flails around and hits people, they're not intentionally trying to hit and it doesn't mean they'll grow up to be fist fighters. It just takes time to grow out of. A lot more time than expected. xD

    It's a blessing in disguise that puppies are so mouthy lol. It's a great opportunity to help them learn bite inhibition, since when they're older, they rarely bite, but you don't want it to be devastating when they do.
  • Thanks! I'm gonna take your advice tonight and try gently pulling my hand away in exchange for a toy. I tried to not pull away last night and Yuka just clamped down even harder on it so I kinda yelped involuntarily and pulled my hand away, which had absolutely no effect on her haha. It's gonna hurt (already does), and I expect that my hands will be full of marks and scars, but that's what comes with getting a Shiba puppy :) Thankfully she is not biting my 2 year old female pug yet; she goes to my pug with an open mouth and nips at my pug's neck but from what I can tell, there isn't any pain and my pug isn't taking any of it and will fight back. :)
  • LilikoiLilikoi
    Posts: 1269
    Yeah they've got little needle teeth hehe.Rright now she doesn't know bite inhibition for humans so I'm sure she isn't holding back lol. But ideally she'll get the idea in a few months. React similarly even when she bites less hard, so she learns to hold back and gets the idea that humans are extremely delicate and you need to be very gentle with them. xD

    I also recommend teaching something like soft/gentle/kisses by putting a bit of peanut butter on your hand and letting her lick it off. It definitely helped Ozzy when he used to get particularly eager greeting new people and kids. He wanted to grab their hands in his mouth, but now he will gladly be "soft" and lick their hands when they present them to him lol. Some of the kids were kind of timid around dogs and really wanted to pet him, but pulled their hands away super fast like they were just tagging him. And it would make him so excited. So I had to help them just hold out their hands and let him come to them and let him lick them so they weren't afraid that he would bite when they wanted to pet him.
  • I read about the peanut butter method on this forum and wanted to try it, but I'm not sure if Yuka's stomach is still too delicate for peanut butter! Granted she's 9 weeks old, but she had a bout of diarrhea over the weekend so we took her to a vet. That was after we gave her a little bit of banana, a little chicken and a little peanut butter (spread out over a couple of days, of course haha). Perhaps after she's stopped her medication :)

    I do have to ask, though, how do you tolerate the pain of those teeth clamping down hard on you and not involuntarily pulling back fast? :D

    That aside, I do not want to cause this thread to go off in a different direction, but just wanted to make sure that it is alright that Yuka goes at Callie with her mouth open, nips at her neck, growl at times too right? From what I've read and seen on the forum so far it does seem alright :) Although I know Callie is trying to assert her authority by making sure she follows Yuka around the house no matter what, and always pestering Yuka (which is so weird, because usually it's the puppy pestering the older dog, but in this case, Callie pesters Yuka each time they are let out together) :)
  • LilikoiLilikoi
    Posts: 1269
    I just kinda stay all about business and stay consistent lol. It is painful. And at times very frustrating when Ozzy's intentionally being a brat. And I sometimes wanna be like OMG NO STOPPPP but of course that does nothing lol. the best you can do is just keep calm, ignore it, follow through with the redirection and correction that works best for you. And be very encouraging about appropriate play and praise when she's gentle. :) she's just learning to communicate.

    As long as it's supervised and no one is hurting being malicious or one isn't enjoying the experience, I think their interaction can help them both learn improved behavior around dogs. I'm cautious with the encounters my pup has with other dogs, but as long as neither of the dogs are too aggravated, I think their reactions to each other's behavior can really teach them what is and isn't acceptable behavior to a fellow dog. Of course I don't mean just throw dogs together and let them hash it out or something. But this is why socialization is so important, having many dogs of many personalities interacting with your pup so she can grow up to be well adjusted and exposed to the different kinds of dogs she will encounter throughout her life. Rather than fearing other dogs and finding their reactions unpredictable and intimidating.
  • Yojimbo_90Yojimbo_90
    Posts: 45
    My Yoji was (and still can be) a biting terror, and he's just turned 9 months, 9 weeks is so so young, we could barely touch Yoji for a long time without getting bit lol. And yes, unfortunately for me I'd have scars and marks every week, my skin bruises very easily, so make sure to look after yourself too :P

    Yanking hands away and screeching would only excite Yoji more, so ending play immediately and walking away or putting him in timeouts is the only thing to have had an effect on him.

    But as @lilikoi has said consistency is key! It's also easier if you're playing on the ground with Yuki, so when she bites you can say "ah-ah" or "no" or whichever word you like to discourage her, stand up, fold your arms and turn your back to her, this worked with Yoji as he got bored and ran away then. Hand feeding his kibble worked a treat too, (which in turn discourages the resource guarding - two birds one stone!) encouraging licking of the hands, we taught Yoji "kissies". Basically you want to associate your hands with yummy things and treats, but it takes time.

    I'm not gonna lie, it can hurt, and for a long time with Yoji it did! I still have scars from the little bugger. Your pup sounds like a normal shiba to me though, so good luck :)
  • @lilikoi I tried not to pull away yesterday and boy did it hurt like a mutha! Yuka was chasing after my feet and clamped down on them. Used a toy (3, in fact), none seemed to work, but I'm gonna keep at it. I couldn't really reward her for positive behaviour because there was none - she didn't stop, she just redirected her attention to my partner or to the furniture/rug/whatever else was on the floor. I'm now trying time-outs with her by ignoring her if I'm reaching into her pen and she tries to get at me with her teeth. Let's see where that goes :)

    Yeah I'm hoping Callie, my 2+ years female pug, will teach Yuka some manners, but aside from Callie pestering Yuka wherever she goes, there isn't a whole lot of that haha. So far there have been growls and Callie has swatted Yuka away but Yuka keeps coming back for more, so I suppose that's play. Last night, though, there was an almost-fight which I managed to intervene in time. It involved Callie's kong that had the scent of peanut butter, Yuka's first ever snarl and lunge at Callie's hind leg, and Callie sorta just taking it all cool (or trying to back off, I wasn't sure). Oh yeah, and one stressful mommy after that) xD Did Ozzy ever display any sort of resource guarding this young? Yuka's going for her first socialisation session on Saturday; let's hope it goes well!

    @yojimbo_90 I just bought tons of lotion for my hands, because I foresee scars and marks in the near future :) And yes, as you and @lilikoi have mentioned, I am teaching Yuka the "kisses" command, and so far it's going well! I didn't need to use peanut butter, because Yuka is so food motivated, just the remnants of her kibble gravy (we soak her kibbles in water before she eats), is enough for her to lick my hand. I now ask her for "kisses" before she gets to eat. Is it common, though, that she only licks once and immediately looks at my other hand that has her food? Just curious too, is she supposed to only lick my hand when I ask for "kisses"? Because I thought I could get her to try "kisses" on my leg or with my partner, but it only works with me for now. I hand feed her half her food, and give her the rest in her feeding bowl. How does it help resource guarding, if I may ask? I'd like to stop Yuka's resource guarding, because I don't want her to be aggressive towards or attack her sister in future xD

    Yuka doesn't respond to "No" or "Ack" or "Ah ah" at all, but I'm keeping at "No" for now, and ignoring her when she gets at my hands (mostly feet now, and what a strong jaw she has for a puppy!). She cries and whines when that happens, then goes right back to attaacking her toys, doing her puppy shiba 500 around the pen or something else. The attention span of puppies! :D

    I'd so love to post a picture of Callie and Yuka, but for the life of me, I can't seem to figure out how to do so :D
  • Yojimbo_90Yojimbo_90
    Posts: 45
    The hand feeding really is great, what I used to do with Yoji was keep the kibble tight in my hand and if he would try bite/nibble on my hand, I would say then say "ah-ah, no", pull my hand to my chest and then he would get no food - once it became softer or he licks I release my fingers and he'd get the food out of my hand and tell him "good boy" and say "kissies" a lot! But you will need to keep doing this over, and over, and over!

    My hands were always in and around Yoji's bowl while he was eating, picking some kibble out and feeding it to him. It helps with the guarding as he gets used to hands being around him when he is eating, and thus doesn't feel threatened or doesn't need to fear I'll take food away from him. It also teaches him good manners around meal times ;)

    I'm not sure she is being aggressive this young, she's probably just being rude to Callie. There are other threads for the guarding around dogs but I've seen you posted in the one I was going to link so I'll leave it out :P

    Keep saying "ah-ah" and "no", for a while you will feel she is not listening, but she is, she is learning and testing boundaries, and will do this for a loooooong time :P

    These first few months are the toughest for shiba parents, but keeping consistent is absolutely key, even when you think it's not working. Ignoring her can be hard, I know, especially when she's still biting on you! Her puppy socialisation class will help her with the bite inhibition too. But keep getting up and walking away from her the SECOND she bites, whilst saying "no" or "ah-ah".

    It does take a long time for them to grow out of the biting, Yoji still bites and still gets a time out/ignored when being a little brat. Shibas love any sort of attention, good and bad, which is why ignoring them is so powerful :) but as I already said, she is still sooooooo young, so all of what you're describing is totally normal for your baby, she is going to take time to learn what is and what is not acceptable behaviour. Yoji was a proper little devil dog at Yuka's age, but has turned into a little gentleman. So if you start doing all of this early on and stick to it, Yuka will grow up to be a very good doggy :)

    Would love to see pics :D
    Post edited by Yojimbo_90 at 2016-07-14 07:52:53
  • Mochi920Mochi920
    Posts: 357
    I'm starting to get really frustrated with my 5 month old puppy :(( since she turned 4 months, she always jumps and nips at my hands and legs. When I'm sitting on the couch, she will sometimes come up to me and jump up and down trying to nip at my hands and arms! She's been biting since we got her (at 8 weeks) but it wasn't to this extent....even before she turned 4 months, she didn't get into these biting frenzies. Idk if it's normal puppy play because most times when she's biting and I give her a command (such as down or act dead, she does it but then goes straight back to biting my hands.

    I've tried ignoring her, yelling ouch, time outs, bitter apple! She bites hard sometimes and sometimes she doesn't.
    I wonder if it's because it's teething????

    I feel like I have the most nippiest pup right now (almost thinking she's trying to be dominant by biting and barking at us) and it's really frustrating at times. I don't think she's aggressive because she doesn't growl or make us bleed but it does hurt lol

    Does the biting ever go away even though she's super nippy?! She's teething right now too.
  • AnjyilAnjyil
    Posts: 776
    Poor Mochi! Yes, it is normal puppy behavior. From what I have heard, if you hadn't been working on inhibition, it would be much worse!

    From what I have read, they nip during play, and they chew and bite for many reasons: exploring the world (much like how human babies put everything in their mouths) to trying to ease their painful gums as old teeth fall out and new come in.

    I am having a similar issue with my puppy, Coal. Just turned 5 months and he is also starting to show guarding! (this is official as of last night). I think you are doing everything right. Next step is that if she nips or bites hard, do the ouch thing (or whatever your no word is) and completely storm out of the room--nose up in the air and all the airs of an offended, angry mother. I did this to Coal the other day because he "grabbed" my hand when I reached for his bowl (I say grab because he never breaks skin and the pressure wasn't bad either) He gave a weak bark/whimper and immediately sat down. He's been careful ever since then.

    My hubby, on the other hand, is where you are at and so far, nothing seems to work! I am having him do this hand exercise with him (50 second mark)

    Post edited by Anjyil at 2017-02-13 06:33:50
  • Mochi920Mochi920
    Posts: 357
    @anjyil we have been working on her bite inhibition since the second day she started living with us lol her biting isn't really resource guarding because she lets us touch her food bowl, toys, and chews. It's whenever we play or when she comes to greet us...she greets us with airplane ears and barking and then chewing of our hands lol I just hope that once her teething is over, she will calm it down a bit :))

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