For all new members, please check out the thread New to the Forum? What to do and forum guidelines.
Shibas in agility?
  • I took Koji (8.5 mo. old) to his first "agility foundation" class today. It was super fun. He's been to a few puppy classes and basic obedience. He's really well socialized, but obedience he gets bored easily.

    I thought would be good way to work with him doing agility as it would be more like a game...

    does anyone have experience with agility and Shibas? I don't expect to compete, - as he has typical Shiba selective hearing:) if he does well that would be gravy - he's unafraid of equipment and loves to run over the obstacles...

    some pics from class:
    Post edited by Calia at 2012-10-13 09:10:24
  • jujeejujee
    Posts: 882
    If you can find Saru's thread there are videos of him doing agility.

    Here's one thread http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6693

    I believe Jen posted more videos in another thread as well.
    Post edited by jujee at 2011-02-17 06:11:29
  • Thanks @Jujee - loved Saru's video's...Maybe hope for Shiba agility :)
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    You can always try Flyball ;)
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • I take Fuji to agility for the same reasons. Don't expect to compete...just fun and exercise:)
  • Serkle kSerkle k
    Posts: 974
    there's actually a picture of a Shiba in the Doctos Foster&?? catalog. I got it in the mail out of no where and there's a Shiba in the weave poles
  • IchigoIchigo
    Posts: 190
    I wanted to do agility with Ichigo. When I finally found a class near by, the instructor mentioned he should have been in at least 1 more obedience class (not a puppy class) and it was pretty pricey. Are the agility classes you guys are taking pretty expensive too?
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Saya loves agility she only does it for fun no way she can compete with her back legs..

    I got a jump made my own weave poles for now hope to get better ones soon and soon getting a tunnel too.

    Saru does agility.

    You can do it for fun and who knows your pup might enjoy it a lot and do well with it.
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • @Ichigo - The foundation class we are in is $166 for 8 weekly classes...(we live in Hawaii where everything is more expensive - but I think seems fair) Instructor told me sit/stay is important thing to be working on...and she required one basic obedience class under their belt...

    Some people in my class have done it before and just repeat for fun or you can progress to more advanced classes...

    @lindsayt - What is flyball?

    Does anyone know which groups are good? Instructor said she didn't get involved with all the different groups because she wants to teach dogs to have fun and not get involved with doggie politics :) apparently agility is growing here in HI and there are different groups that hold competitions...(not that we are anywhere near that or will ever be at that leve, just curious:)
  • You may want to look for "all breed" agility clubs. Yes, there may be "dog club politics" in some groups. Some agility groups may be more into the competitive nature of things, others may be more relaxed. If you find the opportunity, check the groups out.

    Here's a video of Shelby, a red Shiba, doing agility practice:

  • karashakarasha
    Posts: 110
    ^ Wow! That's amazing! Really inspiring. I really want my little one to do agility classes just because it's fast paced and would keep her (and me!) on her toes. :)
    ... or maybe it just feels natural because I'm competitively jump horses.

    Thanks for the links, guys!
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    @ Koji's mom,

    Flyball is like agility on roids, Beebe and I love it. Basically, it's a relay race of two teams with 4 dogs each, and the baton is a tennis ball that they have to catch mid air from a launch box that they trigger. The fastest completed heat earns points for the team. Our next tournament is in Canada towards the end of March. Here's a video of Beebe at a tourney which explains the sport faster than I can:

    http://2naughtyshibas.blogspot.com/2010/12/video-of-beebes-first-nafa-flyball.html
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • Sukoshi's mom, thanks! So inspiring - love that video!

    and Lindsayt Thank you too, that looks like soo much fun...I looked up Flyball and doesn't appear to be anyone doing it here, but with agility growing in popularity hopefully flyball will come along eventually...

    I think it would be so incredible to do a sport where you are really working with your dog...Thanks everyone -
  • Sukoshi's Mom - awesome video!

    One wants some obedience down for the basic skills, but competition obedience we have found to be boring , at least for me and my gang. I may change my mind down the road who knows but for now agility works for us.

    Saya: What's great about agility is that one can alter/omit the most physically demanding obstacles (A-frame and teeter or dog walk) if one has an older healthy dog. There is the option to choose between the organizations for a best fit as well . In fact there are so many options now that age is no longer a limit for most. There are some people that have run their Shibas up to 13 or 14 yrs of age successfully, depending on the dog and the course. If you have a dog that enjoys this it is a lot of fun. I would suggest starting with an indoor center that gives a good foundation and attempts to make it fun for everyone regardless of level. I think the most important thing though is getting core strength built up in any dog through some stretching and tricks. You would be amazed how much some range of motion exercises will help with muscle building for minor leg problems etc.

    Fly ball is great for a dog with a lot of drive and not overly a resource guarder. However, it can be hard on the dog's body if there are structural health problems in rear and shoulders.

    Snf
    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2011-02-20 16:40:33
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    Thought I would add these videos here, so people can see some beautiful Shiba/Human team working the course.

    I had the pleasure of meeting Julie J and her three Shibas last Friday at a local Agility trial. The three Inus are Kado, Toshi and Mika.

    Kado, the black and tan, is the youngest of the trio (about 3-4 years old) and is a very consistent dog. He qualified all three runs I saw him on Friday. I was told he also qualified for every runs Saturday and Sunday. He is well on his way to get his MACH (Master Agility Championship).

    Here is Kato's Standard Run in the Excellent B class on Friday


    Kato's Jumper with Weaves Run in the Excellent B class on Friday


    Kato's Fast run in the Excellent B class on Friday


    Toshi is about 6 years old and got 1 qualifying leg in Standard Novice and earned a Jumper with Weaves (JWW) Novice title by Day 3 of the trial.

    Mika is about 11 years old and is Julie's first dog. She is very pretty and is in great health. Mika, the Princess, does not do Agility, but her mom will be investigating the possibility of doing Nosework with her.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    That's an awesome run for Kado! So nice to see such good teamwork.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • BuckyBadgerBuckyBadger
    Posts: 602
    Our Mika finishes her Agility I class on wednesday..looks like she has good potential.
    Fred and Jodie...Madison WI

    **Mika....The Shiba Inu**

    **Zoey....The Schipperke**
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    Of course she has good potential, she's a Shiba ;)
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • lockshi3lockshi3
    Posts: 628
    Wow Kado looked fantastic. Everything looked so smooth. Thanks for posting!
  • hkfirewolfhkfirewolf
    Posts: 113
    Jade is in Agility training. She starts the intermediate class tomorrow. I think it is super fun and she loves the equipment. However, I am probably never going to show her in it.
    Owned and loved by "Jade"
    ~ DOB: 5/18/11~ Cream Shiba ~
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    @BuckyBadger

    Agility is a lot of fun, but does require consistent training and you making it fun for Mika to work with you, rather than finding the fun herself.

    Hope to see more Shiba in Agility or other companion events/activities/sports! The more the merrier!
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    @hkfirewolf

    Just wondering why you think you will never show her in it? What are the reasons?
  • hkfirewolfhkfirewolf
    Posts: 113
    @sandrat888 I do not trust her off leash at all. She has proven that fact by running Shiba 500s around the training ring multiple times. I feel more comfortable showing her in Rally (which we also train in) then a high energy, easily chaos prone, sport like Agility.
    Owned and loved by "Jade"
    ~ DOB: 5/18/11~ Cream Shiba ~
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    @hkfirewolf

    I am sure you have been working with her on recall and staying with you while working (such as Agility or Rally). If you keep at it, it will only get better!

    It is great that you also train her in Rally. I find it is really helping. If Jade can work in a less aroused environment such as Rally with you, chances are higher that she can work with you in a more chaotic and exciting environment like Agility.

    Rally Novice is on leash, but once you move to Rally Advanced or Rally Excellent, she will be off-leash in the ring too.

    Keep working with her and build value for her to work and interact with you, rather than find joy herself. The goal is really build value for you in her eyes, so she would rather involve you than engaging many environment distractions while you want her to focus on whatever tasks at hand.
  • @hkfirewolf Shiba 500's are just part of the training too. Once they realize that the 500's get them nowhere they will start wanting to know what does. And like sandrat said, once you move up in Rally they are no longer on leash.
    I have 2 shiba's I'm training Saru who I compete with we are still in novice standard but we are in open jumpers. And Hime who is still training. Here is a link to most of my agility videos, most are older but I've put some newer ones up recently, Hopefully they are inspiring. :D

    http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/hh145/stryker777337/Videos/

    Glad to see so many interested in agility.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    Farrah is getting back in Agility now that she is out of heat. We had a practice session this afternoon with a friend and her Shibas, working on the teeter and 2x2s. It's a lot of fun, but as Sandra pointed out, I need more patience. Im hoping I can get her ready to trial within the next 6 months. That would be one step closer to a VCD.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • hkfirewolfhkfirewolf
    Posts: 113
    I knew Rally was off leash after Novice. Just seems like she would be more willing to focus when not running.

    However: UPDATE! She stayed behind a jump long enough for me to lead her into a tunnel.....twice....two different ways. She absolutely rocked it tonight in class. It is nights like these that make me wonder if maybe showing wouldn't be that bad.
    Owned and loved by "Jade"
    ~ DOB: 5/18/11~ Cream Shiba ~
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    @hifirewolf

    You wrote "She stayed behind a jump long enough for me to lead her into a tunnel.....twice....two different ways."

    What do you mean by Jade staying behind a jump long enough? Did you mean a sit/stay or stand/stay behind the jump? And the two different ways? Is that different crosses that you meant?

    If you keep working with Jade on the foundation skills, you will both be rocking in no time. It is really a very satisfying experience to do Agility with your Shiba if you can engage her to work with you. Look forward to hearing more of you and Jade's progress in Agility, Rally or anything else you want to try!
  • BuckyBadgerBuckyBadger
    Posts: 602
    So Mika had her last class yesterday...she came a long way in just 6 classes..here are the 2 videos from her run last night....on the second video Jodie changed sides and made a big difference....Or mika just caught on that fast...Agility 2 starts May 15th...Can't wait


    Fred and Jodie...Madison WI

    **Mika....The Shiba Inu**

    **Zoey....The Schipperke**
    Post edited by BuckyBadger at 2012-04-19 16:11:23
  • hkfirewolfhkfirewolf
    Posts: 113
    @sandrat888 Jade sat and stayed long enough for me to walk halfway between the tunnel and jump. We worked on two different ways of sending her into the tunnel. So she had to sit/stay twice behind the jump and cross two different ways into the tunnel. Sorry I didn't elaborate before. :)
    Owned and loved by "Jade"
    ~ DOB: 5/18/11~ Cream Shiba ~
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    @hkfirewolf

    Thanks for the explanation. It is very important to have a solid sit/stay in both every day life and in sports/activities such as Rally or Agility.

    For Agility, a good sit/stay gives you the flexibility to do lead out. You do not always need to have lead out, but it is nice to have that option.

    The different crosses can be confusing for new handler/dog too, so practice some of them without your dogs and once you get your own footwork sorted out, you can add your dog in. I usually practice the crosses on the flat (with no obstacle and no running involved), so you can get the mechanics right. This helps tremendously when you start using crosses actually doing a course.

    @BuckyBadger

    Glad to hear that you and Mika are enjoying Agility class and will continue training.

    Mika seems quite comfortable with the equipment and is fearless. Does your instructor talk about handling system at all? It helps tremendously when you advance further down the road to have a consistent handling system, so the dog gets the critical information of where to go/turn next from you while both of you are in fast motion.

  • BuckyBadgerBuckyBadger
    Posts: 602
    Thanks for the info,,Have not talked about handling...Hopefully in the next class we will cover thing like that...otherwise I will ask...
    Fred and Jodie...Madison WI

    **Mika....The Shiba Inu**

    **Zoey....The Schipperke**
  • GatsuGatsu
    Posts: 651
    Mika is looking real good. I wish I would have taken Guts to classes, but nope I neglected him. Maybe I'll take gidget, but then again she's not as agile as Guts.
  • @Gatsu Give Gidget time to grow into her body a bit, and she'll probably be way more agile than Guts. ;D Most of Pams girls seem to be more agile than her boys.
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    Just a bump to say that I'm going to be signing Mitsu up for agility! It's been a while since we've taken a class together, and I miss the structure. Lately we've been focusing on nose work - but that's been on our own, rather than in a class environment. I think trying a new class could be beneficial for us both. She really impresses me with how driven she can be, and really seems to love participating in activities with me, so I think agility could be a lot of fun to try out. There are two facilities I'm in the process of comparing, and she'll likely have to pass an assessment to prove that she has the basics of obedience down before we enroll (she's a champ at sit, stay, and focus, and passed an obedience class a while ago), but there are classes coming up soon that haven't filled up yet, so hopefully we'll be getting started soon!
  • It is real fun, we start our Agility 4 in a few weeks
    Fred and Jodie...Madison WI

    **Mika....The Shiba Inu**

    **Zoey....The Schipperke**
  • I'm in an agility class with my Kai Ken pup (5 mos old) but I'm looking for a new class. The class is supposed to be positive training, but I lost confidence in the trainer after seeing her swat her own dog in the face for growling...And then she told my friend to get her terrier's attention by a sharp leash pop. And she first told me Leo was too young for the weave poles, the told my husband to run him on the poles.

    I just got word from someone locally about a class though, so maybe that will be good. We don't want to compete necessarily but we do want to do more.
  • We had run into a bad trainer once...haven't seen her since agility 2 thankgod...hummm
    Fred and Jodie...Madison WI

    **Mika....The Shiba Inu**

    **Zoey....The Schipperke**
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    That's exactly why I'm visiting the facility and (hopefully) comparing classes, first. Hopefully I can sit in on an class before enrolling. I wouldn't want to be in a class that encourages leash popping and things like that :(

    I hope that new class will be better!
    Post edited by atlas at 2012-08-29 19:10:44
  • AnnaAnna
    Posts: 621
    Hammond starts Advanced Beginner 1 on the 19th. He finished Beginner I and II already.

    I'm hoping that as he gets older he'll calm down a little bit. Right now the puppy energy can make it hard for him to focus. He'll do really well in the first half of class, but then he starts running laps and trying to wrestle the other dogs. None of the treats I or the trainers have will lure him back until he's completed a full lap or two.

    I've had pretty good luck showing up half an hour early for class and letting him run laps, run the course as he wants, playing fetch, etc. If he's already a little bit tired he focuses better (which is why I'm hoping age will help). The problem tends to be that after that first half hour or so, he turns into a maniac. Even once class is done, he's doing backflips, pulling on his leash, jumping and nipping my legs and shirt. One class we actually had to tether him to the fence and ignore him as a timeout for a few minutes (after 3 times he'd run off and ignored me).

    When I can keep his attention, he does AWESOME! I don't know if I'll compete any time soon, since even if we improve his focus I don't know if I can physically handle it. XD He's so fast and I am absolutely beat after class if we do longer sequences.

    We haven't officially learned the teeter in class, but he taught himself one weekend while we were practicing. Scared the crap out of himself the first time, then I had to lure him back on with treats. Now he loves it. He'll stop in the middle, look at me, then lean forward to tip it down and run again. The A-Frame and (oddly) table are his favorites, though.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    A thought, if you let him run laps and get on equipment at the start of class, he will continue to run around and do what he wants because it is enormously self rewarding. Once he gets in the ring, he should come to learn that the only way he gets to play is by staying with you and following your lead. When he self rewards he should go right into a time out.

    Also be sure to reward equally on all equipment so he doesn't come to favor contacts over jumps. Most dogs prefer contacts since we tend to reward heavily for doing these obstacles.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    A lot of dogs like to run around with speed and climb up or jump over on stuff/obstacles, but for the human to enjoy Agility too (not necessarily competing, but really doing the sport as it is designed to be a fun game), there are certain rules just like every game or sports and you need to teach the dogs the basic skills and break things into smaller pieces, so the dogs can be successful and really start to love the game.

    Agility is a sports that you need to train and teach the dog to enjoy, leveraging dogs basic instincts to run and chase and dog's desire to work with its human. It is not like putting a steak in front of a dog, and the dog will just eat it with gusto without you teaching him anything.

    The equipment/obstacle performance is probably the easier part of the sport. The key is really teaching the dog to enjoy playing Agility WITH YOU, not by itself.

    This is why foundation skills are so important, to teach the dog focus on the task (make it a game, so it is not a chore), impulse control (so the dog does not easily get distracted by the environments and for the really hyper and drivey dogs, they don't go all nuts).

    Both Koji (my boy) and Farrah (Lindsay's girl) were enrolled in 3 sets of 8 weeks foundation class when we started training for Agility last August. As a newbie myself, I did not understand why we were doing all the games/exercises we did in class as they did not seem particularly related to Agility. Many of the skills/games were done without the equipment/obstacles. I was very impatient then, thinking it was not Agility and signed my dog up for another Agility class at a different facility that lets dog get on equipment on Day 1 and starts short sequencing in Week 3 or 4. I am glad I kept both classes.

    The foundation skills really made a big difference as I learned more about the sports, been to trials to watch and actually started competing. I saw so many dogs in Novice class that have speed and skills to do most of the obstacles, but can't really pull through the whole course. Even teams that are in the more advanced Open or Excellent classes, you can tell some dogs have better foundations than the others.

    Finally, I want to point out that most Agility dogs today are loving pets and companion first and foremost. I don't think many people still use a "restrict all fun activities" approach to the dogs they do Agility or any other doggie sports with. It was one of the many methods some people subscribed to many years ago, but to be honest, I do not know any dogs being trained this way.

    The really successful Agility team are usually very fun to watch as you can see the dog just enjoys playing the game with their handler, flying through the course smoothly like a dance.


    Post edited by sandrat888 at 2012-08-30 12:16:14
  • AnnaAnna
    Posts: 621
    @lindsayt I'll have to work on that, then. Mostly I just stand off to the side and ignore him while he tuckers himself out. No treats or praise or anything, aside from when if he comes when called or when we play fetch. I could use the other pen area to tire him out, though. No obstacles in that one, but lots of abandoned tennis balls to play fetch with.

    He actually gets more treats at jumps than any others, at this point, since jumps are part of the warmup and he gets a treat or two every time he goes over. He doesn't dislike any of the obstacles like some of the dogs in our class, he seems enthusiastic about everything, but he just goes apeshit for the A-Frame, haha.
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    Is it typical for agility classes to require the Canine Influenza Vaccine and the Bordetella vaccine? Mitsu has had Bordetella for puppy daycare before, though I prefer not having to get it for her unless absolutely necessary, but I've never even heard of the Canine Influenza Vaccine. And I don't really understand why these are necessary for training? I've never had to get so many shots for training before...
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    No, they aren't necessary. I don't give those for mine.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    Okay, thanks. I was thinking that seemed excessive. I'm going to try a different facility.
  • In my case, it's supposed to be just a fun class, so they let them learn the equipment right away, BUT the teacher is not great and has totally not explained what the other exercises are for. She gives us conflicting info. about hand signals, etc. And the class started out ok, but got a bit worse. I think I know why, too. It's at the Animal Humane Society and the head trainer is GREAT. She's all about positive training, and she does the puppy classes. But obviously, she doesn't teach all the classes. It's clear the overall policy is positive reinforcement classes, and equally clear that this agility trainer doesn't actually work with her dogs that way and is trying to simply "pass" by luring with treats, but she forgets herself and tells us to pop their leashes! (even they they are all supposed to be on harnesses), or slaps her dogs, or whatever.

    So if I'd watched a class, I would have thought it was fine--with a slightly hard to follow and disorganized teacher, but ok vs. the other local options (some of the big training schools here are really old school). But now I'm not so thrilled.

    And she can't seem to recall that Leo is 5 months old (though there are only 2 other dogs in the class) so she either wants me to do things I know he shouldn't do (bigger jumps/weave poles) or she expects him to have an adult dog reaction to things. Leo gets overwhelmed easily, and so after 20-30 minutes,he's just done. He walks to the fence and lays down with his back to everything. I can see he's overwhelmed. And she's always like "get him back in here! He's being stubborn!" But he's not. I know if I try to push him, as I did the first time since I didn't recognize his signals, he will go into Kai flight mode. This is just his way of saying he's had enough.

    I did just get a FB message from someone much closer to me, though, who does positive agility training, so I'm optimistic we might find some options.

  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    The training facility has those vaccination requirements to ensure dogs in class are healthy. Definitely check with the facility and ask if there are any flexibilities on some of the requirements.

    Don't rule out a facility just because of the written vaccination requirements.
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    Here is a link to the Agility classes offered at the facility we trained our foundation skills at. They have descriptions and videos for each of the classes, so you will have a better idea of what skills are taught at the foundation level (fun and focus series).

    http://www.dogsworldtraining.com/classes/agility/

    The foundation classes are all fun and positive. To the dogs, it really doesn't matter. It's all games to them.

    A young puppy should not be playing on the equipment as it is bad for their body and they are not mentally mature This is why many of the foundation skills taught are done without equipment (as you can see in the videos) or with a smaller version of lower height version of the equipment when the dog is young. The pup learns the skills/concepts needed later without acquiring bad habits on the actual equipment early on. It is always a challenge to retrain a dog out of something you do not want vs. teaching the dog what you want from the get go.

    The trainer/instructor you have plays a far important role in how you learn and enjoy the sports of Agility.
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    I did ask if they were flexible and asked why they required Canine Influenza, which is two shots spaced apart by a couple of weeks. They said it was just their policy. That doesn't sit right with me because I am concerned about giving Mitsu vaccinations that she really doesn't need. I get Bordetella if I absolutely have to board her. Which I haven't in a long time. But I've never been told to get Canine Influenza before, not for training or boarding. It's strange to me that they would require both, especially when the top boarding facilities around here, including the one I use, do not even require Canine Influenza. Unnecessary vaccinations make me uncomfortable enough to want to see if there are other options. And from what I've read, that shot is pretty unnecessary.

    And there are other options.

    The one I think I am going to go with I'm choosing because they elaborated in detail on their training process for me (positive, marker words for training - not clickers because it's distracting for the other dogs - etc.). I'm going to schedule an assessment with them, so they can meet Mitsu and I can see the facility. Their criteria for Agility I is kind of strict though, so even though Mitsu and I review our training daily, there's a possibility we may need to take a refresher course before qualifying for agility. That wouldn't be so bad - we probably should brush up on heeling.

    There's also an "agility for fun" class at a different facility that starts in late November, but i haven't been able to talk to the trainer because she's on maternity leave.
    Post edited by atlas at 2012-08-30 16:23:34
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    It's not uncommon for places to ask you to pass an assessment test if you do not train basic obedience there before starting a beginner or foundation agility class.

    To start the foundation agility Fun and Focus class, we were asked to do an assessment where the instructor evaluated 10 different items, such as understanding of the crate games (understanding of criteria and not self releasing), it's your choice (impulse control), restrained recall, how well you play and motivate your dog etc.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Who's Online (1)