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Safety Question - Tie Out Cable Clips
  • bobc33bobc33
    Posts: 287
    I use 20 foot tie-out cables quite a bit to let my two stay outside. I'm always just inside the house and can quickly react if I hear anything unusual. They love being outdoors in all types of weather and spend a small amount of time each day tied out.

    My concern is that once in a very great while the clips come off and now Shiba is free, which obviously is not a good thing. It has happened twice with Scout, who has no recall and is very much the hunter. Once I got her back because she was chasing another dog in the neighborhood and didn't go far. The other time she bolted down the end of the street and off into the woods. Much of the neighborhood joined me in finding her and we did, though the only reason was she boxed herself in on a little peninsular and the river prevented her from going further.

    Anyone have any thoughts on how to make them more secure?

    Photobucket
  • You could switch an end with one of those repelling clips. THey should be purchasable at most outdoor stores.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    A well fenced yard is the best thing. I had the same issue when I tried a tie out with my 1st shiba. If you can, try to find a lobster claw clasp for the tie out, or a clasp similar to that on most horse leads. A caribeaner would work too, but seriously, a fence is safest.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    Hmm, I've never had a cable tie come off before. Switching the clasps sounds like a good idea for something heavy duty and strong. If you use a carabiner a locking one would be best, they don't come off unless you make them.
    You could also make a safety of some sort, a short length of cable and a clip attached to the cable's loop where the clip is. Short enough that it won't get tangled up in the dog's legs. I dunno.
  • INU RYUUINU RYUU
    Posts: 1505
    The repelling clips are called caribiners. Probably the screw locking types would be good, Use them on both ends. Don't use the ones that are rated for gear only.Check out Eastern Mountain Sports to get an idea.
    犬竜
  • bobc33bobc33
    Posts: 287
    Huummmm, good ideas and thank you.

    A well fenced yard is just not in the budget and won't be for a couple of years minimum unfortunately.

    I have a non-locking caribiner which I can add to the cable clip. I guess that would be a bit more secure, but there is an outdoor speciality shop near me that I'm sure will have the locking type as I think that will be better, so I'll try them tomorrow.

    I have a twin leash attachment that has lobster claw clasps which do seem much more secure that the normal clasp. I tried googling but couldn't find a tie-out cable with lobster claws though, I'll keep trying.

    A friend just had her dog get free from the same type of tie-out as in the picture above which is what I use. He spent the past four days out in the woods in well below zero temperatures. They found him today and he has an injured leg which is paralyzed. I'll feel much better when I have more confidence in the tie-outs after whatever safety improvisation is made.

    Thanks again.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6675
    Wow sorry about the neighbor's dog. =(

    Yeah I use the Tie out as a extra length for the 50foot leash though it's only in use when I'm outside Bella is pretty good with recall and so is Saya, but if she saw a new cat or leaf, squirrel etc. she might not listen like she does with no distraction..
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8363
    Mmm...

    I am going to be the voice of doom here.

    Tie outs like those are not something that I would EVER recommend for ANY dog to be left on unsupervised.

    First of all, as you have found out, those clasps are terrible and incredibly easy for a dog to undo. Resulting in a Shiba that may never be seen again.
    Secondly, there is a thin metal cable inside that plastic. Dogs can and will chew on the tie. Which exposes the metal. If twisted around a leg, this can cause major injury to the animal, including amputation of the limb.
    Thirdly, if something comes into the yard and tries to hurt the tied dog, he or she is not able to get away. The cable can cause the animal to become entangled and not be able to defend itself properly.

    This is not to say the ties do not have a use. I use them for camping trips with my dogs. But they are always within eye sight and easy reach of me when they are tied. They have also been taught that when they are tied, they are to be calm. So they can be safety used, just under extreme supervision.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • bobc33bobc33
    Posts: 287
    Sunyata, please continue to be the voice of doom, though I would call you the voice of reason. Safety is what it is all about for me at least. I inspect these cables constantly and disgard them at the slightest hint of any wear. I buy new ones probably on average once a month. While my two are daily on them out front, I am always right inside the door either on the computer or watching TV. If anyone approaches they do not know they bark and I am outside with them within a few seconds. We live on a very quiet dead end street thankfully.

    I did buy a couple of quality Black Diamond carabiners tonight, the guy said he would trust his life with them. I'm feeling a bit safer with them.
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    Good choice, Black Diamond's are great. I've had a few of them and they are the hardiest carabiners Ive used.
  • bobc33bobc33
    Posts: 287
    Well the bleeping flipping carabiner didn't work tonight. Thankfully it was in our friends fenced in backyard and not out front of my house. Scout is on a 40 foot tieout there because their fence is only 3 feet high and she could easily jump it. Thankfully she spends so much time there that even when she was free by habit she doesn't approach the fence.

    I'll be returning 5 carabiners tomorrow and getting the real locking type. I went with the "gate" ones because they were much simpler than the spin locking ones and two people at the store said they would trust their life with them. The spin lock ones may be a pain but she is worth it.
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
    I story I would like to add of one of my experiences with tie outs:

    We were going camping in MA and had just bought 2 10ft tie outs for the boys so they can be outside at the campgrounds with us. Being that the ground was so sandy, the stake wouldn't stay, so we hooked them up around the picnic table. Well there were these ground squirrels that were incredibly brave and loved to tease the boys. Tikaani's prey drive kicked in and he made a lunge for the squirrel, which had caused both tie outs to break. Both boys went running off for two separate squirrels, Tetsu's cord getting tangled in some brush by the site while Tikaani was trying to figure out how to climb a tree. Luckily we caught both boys quickly, and inspected the lines. Found that both of the clips attached to the picnic table had snapped in half and broken off the line.
    image
  • Bump.

    In two weeks or so I am taking the fur monster to Northern Virginia so I can see my "nephew" (best friend's son). My buddy lives in a house with a big yard that isn't fenced in but does have trees all around it. I can't let Banjo out as he will undoubtedly go into the woods. That being said, I'd love to be able to hang out outside with him (he won't be outside unless I am with him). Was thinking of buying a tie out like the one below.

    It seems however that I shouldn't let him play while on this correct (as if he gets wrapped around it he'll get hurt)

    Also, do I need a special harness?

    (I've never used a tie out and prior to this search never heard of one, so forgive me for the dumb question).

    The plan was for my and my friend to hang out on the deck, bbq, etc while banjo plays in the yard.

    http://www.amazon.com/Super-Beast-Heavy-Tie-out-250lbs/dp/B00GMM8THG
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8363
    Where in NOVA are you going? :)

    As for the tie out, the one that you linked on Amazon is pretty decent. I would loop it around a tree or stable post on the deck instead of using one of those screw in stakes.

    Definitely use a harness while Banjo is on it instead of a collar. I use the Ruffwear Webmaster, so if you have one of those, I HIGHLY recommend it. If not, you can use a regular harness as long as it is very supportive. If you wanted to borrow a Webmaster for the weekend, I have one you could use (depending on where in NOVA you are going to be).

    With playing, it is fine that he plays on the tie out, as long as you are supervising him (which, I know you would never leave him out on a tie unattended, so that is kind of a moot point). My girls play with each other while on ties when camping, but I have to intervene often to untangle them. In fact, even when they are just wandering around, I often have to untangle them.

    The tie outs are pretty stiff, so I would not worry so much about him being able to wrap it around his legs or neck quicker than you can respond to him (again, as long as you are supervising him). And since it will just be one dog on a tie, you would not have to worry about untangling multiple lines.

    Hope this helps!
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • My buddy lives in Fairfax Station? I take rt 66 to.. 123 or 50 and then its a few turns to Ox Road? He lives off clifton road (I know it by sight more than street names). I may go out to leesburg (I own a large piece of land out there I planned on turning into a housing development, and need to check on it.)

    Thats VERY sweet of you to offer the harness, but if it is something I would use more than once I will order one for sure =). Seriously though, thanks. What size harness makes sense for a 31 lbs dog.. medium?

  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3460
    @BanjoTheBetaDog

    31 lbs dog?!! Selling New ruffwear harness to Mr. Banjo!!

    -.- got one for Bootz because my husband wanted it. Every since we bought it, she only wore it once.....

    Not all shibas/dogs like webmaster because of how uhh...don't how to describe it. But it covers a lot of the dog, which is why Bootz doesn't like it. So you better make sure its something he likes!
  • Yeah, Banjo didn't come from the best breeder so he is def. above the shiba weight.

    I manage his diet and excersise so I know he isn't overweight in the health sense, just according to breed standards.

    On my way home from work today I have to stop by the pet store (out of the brats favorite treat. Crating him in exchange for a cookie doesn't get it done), I'll see if he likes the harness, and if he does, I'll PM you if you want to sell me yours?
  • @banjothebetadog - my guess is it would still be the small. The hiking harness that fits on my 25 lb boy is a small and there was still a lot of adjustment to be made upwards.

    My 17 lb girl wear's an extra small (hiking harness again) and to be honest, it still seems slightly big on her. The ruffwear harnesses seem to run a bit on the larger side but they are excellent.

    See if you can try one on at a shop somewhere. That is how we sized ours.
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8363
    @BanjoTheBetaDog - Both of my girls wear an XS. However, I have a couple of smalls from fosters that I have had in the past. Usually if a Shiba is above 25 pounds, the small will fit better than the XS. If the dog is above 40 pounds, you may have to go up to a medium, but I doubt Banjo will get that big.

    By the way, those sizes are all for the Ruffwear gear. Other harnesses are not sized the same, so you might want to try them on first.

    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • Thanks everyone!!

    @sunyata, where in NoVa are you?
  • I will second the carabiner. I also love ruffwears harnesses (and customer service). I really am not a big fan of leaving dogs outside tied up but sometimes it's fine...like when you are out there with them. I did a remodel on my parents home and they have a dog that didn't get along with my dogs. I wanted to take my dogs along since I was going to have some long days. I used some slimmer climbing rope (please tie an appropriate knot) and carabiners. I don't remember the kind of rope but I still use the carabiners when I hike and what not. They come in handy....these are the kind I use. You could probably use some 550 paracord which is cheaper and much stronger than it looks. Just make sure it's not the look-a-like utility cord.

    http://www.amazon.com/Black-Diamond-Rocklock-Screwgate-Carabiner/dp/B000LGJFYK/ref=sr_1_2?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1402001430&sr=1-2&keywords=locking+carabiner
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    I use a size small ruffwear harness for my Kai Ken who is 40 pounds (near the same size as my male Shiba, who is 42 pounds). It fits well on my Kai, but is a bit tight on my broader chested Shiba. The ruffwear harnesses are great, but they do cover a lot of the body. They're hard to get out of, which is great, though I do believe one of @Sunyata's dogs got out of one once? (If I'm remembering correctly?)

    But yes, just get a good harness, and supervise, and you'll be fine! Have fun!
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8363
    @BanjoTheBetaDog - I am in the Arlington area.

    @shibamistress - Yes, Nola wiggled her way out of a Webmaster once... But this is also the ninja dog that can take her collar off unassisted, so she is a "special" case. ;-)

    *note - Nola did not get all the way out of the harness. She got both front legs out, but the rear strap kept her in long enough for me to pick her up and readjust things. (Again, this is why it is so important to always supervise your dogs when they are not securely confined in your home!)

    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • melissafonmelissafon
    Posts: 117
    @BanjoTheBetaDog and @sunyata We live in Northern Virginia as well! We actually aren't too far from you guys.

    Regarding the ruffwear, A small should fit a 31lb shiba, I'd know since Cheeto is also 31lbs and he wears a small :P

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