KAREN MOORE, d/b/a/ Icewind Farm, Phillipsburg Lawyers In Defense of Animals, Inc. (LIDA) is currently investigating allegations that Icewind Farm is not operating in compliance with New Jersey law. If you have purchased a dog from Icewind Farm within the past 6 years and have documentation of your purchase that ...you are willing to share with LIDA for review, you are willing to share with LIDA for review, please attach to email to lidaesq@aol.com or mail to LIDA at 2247 Old Church Road, Toms River, NJ 08753. You may be eligible for reimbursement of a portion of your veterinary bills.
I wonder if there have been any updates since I first read about this investigation in Sept 2010. LIDA's website doesn't seem to have any postings on this.
I also saw this on FB from another breeder. I wonder if it is okay to print and post in local places? I have met quite a few people in my area that have Shiba's from them and as much as I have encouraged them to come onto the forum, they haven't. They all have mentioned to me one thing or another about how much trouble their shibas are.
While all dogs are different I noticed more people that have bought dogs from them have generally the same problems/issues.
I know one person who purchased a puppy from them and that Shiba has a poor reputation at the dog run of being overly aggressive and not well liked. When I first started bringing INU to the park last year many people had a negative perception of Shibas- luckily INU is "Mr. Personality " and was able to change their preconceptions.
Thanks for posting this. Although I will admit to not doing as much research as I should have...luckily we have had no major issues. Everyone in the neighborhood loves Sam, no issues at the dog park. She usually minds her own business and mostly plays with dogs she knows. She only shows her teeth when other dogs get too rough with her. She loves people...but does bark and growl at the fresh direct delivery guy though lol. She is protective of her home. Even dogs that she spends hours with every day, she does not approve of them being in her house.....but once they are...she eventually lightens up.
She will be 2 on Monday the 24th and besides some weird sensitivity in her vagina area (that no vet seems to be able to figure out - may be related to her spay - only arises once in a while), she has no health issues.
With that being said, I will forward all my info to LIDA.
I wasn't going to comment on this thread because I do not have any experience with Ice Wind, but after reading some of the reivews... oh my gosh! They were going to be my second stop for a Shiba simply due to the proximity; I am VERY thankful I went to Rodel first! Mac's Action Adventure Stories
Yeah my bf and I considered Icewind but was very glad that we found the icewindfarmreviews site. Actually, we were already pretty intimidated by the website... paintings of her and shibas near a castle... long pages about how it's mandatory to buy their nutritional supplements... it was both scary and shady at the same time. :P
My bf has a coworker who acquired a Shiba from them, and has no complaints so far. However, it sounds like that might be an exception more than the rule. And now I think the farm is getting involved in breeding golden retrievers? Hmm.
We've got another thread on them somewhere, too, that shows some of the shady stuff they've done. The thing that really stands out to me is the breeding Shibas to Mini-Pins (purposefully) and selling them.
I was heartened to see that NJ has what looks like some good laws dealing with dog breeding.
I choked when I looked at their puppy page with "show quality puppies". It's laughable. I'd like to say more, but their bad reputation speaks all for itself.
Masakado Shiba Inu www.masakadoshiba.wordpress.com "Common sense isn't so common"
But they give the adults people food for treats and NEVER leave them alone!! I like this: "We would like to thank all the nice and thoughtful people who waited and bought their puppy supplies from Anyas TLC Puppy Supplies. You have really been an influence on making Anya happy for the long hours she works to maintain her supplies and picking out special toys and supplies for your new Icewind Puppy. Thank You from Everyone at Icewind Farm." Oh and they sell a music CD for dogs that is like baby einstein for puppies.
Icewind farm and rightpuppu kennel are the two kennels I don't like. >.<
Right puppy breeds for mame shiba and Tamaskan wolf dogs they breed so many of them I think some of them were breed with huskies too and the breeder claims they are pure or something.
The breeder even threatened this one lady because she spoke out against him about the dogs. Would use a different number and pose as a police man on the phone etc.
Sad there is breeders like this. =(
Bella 3yr boxer, Saya 2yr shiba inu
I wish governments would recognise a life is a life no matter what body it comes in.
People that treat their animals like this need to be stopped. I am not happy when I see pet factories that keep getting away with selling the lastest fashionable pet without actually caring for anything but the bottom line.
It happens here in Australia, we have shopping centre chain pets stores that a supplied by backyarders and puppy factories and they dont seem to care.
On another note, I hear that there may be a lawsuit against Right Puppy Kennel by the Tamaskan Dog Reistry for abusing the few true Tamaskan RPK have (which they got from Icewind) and for deceiving people into thinking that his dogs are the same breed (his newer stock are wolfy looking mutts).
I just looked at Right Puppy's website....they are actually breeding a cream dog with two cream female dogs for the purpose of producing only cream offspring. And I really want to visit their house. They have so many adult dogs and so many puppies at one time....but it says that they all live in the house? I can't even imagine...
I've actually visited RightPuppy in NC last year. They use their basement or an enclosed garage to house their dogs. The first thing I noticed was a strong smell. It could have been from a lot of urine or it might have been a cleaner of some sort...but whatever it was it was not appealing...almost nauseating. From what I saw, most of the adults were caged together...maybe 7-10 at a time. Only a few dogs were able to roam around when I was there. The puppies and mothers were kept in another room but its definitely not a place I would recommend.
ugh, I'm looking at icewind's website right now. They are ADVERTISING mame pups (mini-shibas) AND a mini-pinscher/shiba mix litter. How is that being responsible SHIBA INU breeders! And everyone else is 'show quality'
It's so upsetting that they do this to misinformed consumers.
Those poor pups...
I would actually suggest that RPK and Icewind are NOT "totally different" stories, since they've had business dealings in the past. They've shared studs, they've gotten dogs from each other. One difference is that New Jersey has puppy lemon laws in place, but North Carolina does not.
When we were first looking to adopt puppies, my brother was home with us and getting frustrated about how long it was taking. He found the Icewind site and suggested we try it since they're not too far from us. I looked up reviews and decided I didn't want to endorse something like that. My brother's words (which seriously upset me): "If we buy it from them, we're still sort of rescuing it, since we're taking it away from them." Really??!!
The fact that my brother thinks that way reminds me that there are probably plenty of other people who think that way and so buy from people like this. >.<
Sooooo glad other people have the same opinions about RPK...My boyfriend and I got caught up in the great website that they have and their crazy availability of puppies of all ages, all at one time. We didn't realize at first that it was "too good to be true" and we hastily put down a deposit of $200. At the time I didn't even know what a puppy mill or puppy farm was, so I thought nothing of it. After we obsessed over the webcam picture of our little pup for days, I decided to do some research about RPK and found some horrible information out. Kevin at RPK was certainly more concerned with getting our deposit than getting a good home for the puppy. Most breeders have forms that you need to fill out, contracts, they care if you have a yard, etc....but not RPK....we could have had a snake and they'd still sell us a Shiba. We "cancelled" our pup order and ate the $200...I hope RPK goes down!
@ Kibalnu - I'm so glad you visited the place and held out for Pam!
Me and my family were ready to place a buy on a shiba from Ice wind for the same reasons many other people have (Location). ICE WIND is one of the few breeders located in the east coast and thus generates a lot of business. When I called they must have thought they had gold in their dogs cause they asked for twice the amount as many other breeders. I thought it was that they had great champions in their breeding program. I researched through AKC only to realize that they have maybe 1 that has champion lines Never the less i kept researching and reviews speak for themselves. They are a horrible breeder!!!
We ended up going with joni from Morningstar shibas and its been a great experience. We have been on a waiting list for a long time but I am willing to wait. Just like having a child takes 9 months, you appreciate it that much more (Not that not waiting causes the opposite). Joni has spoken to me countless times and its trully been such a relaxing experience.
NJ is awsome for even beginning this investigation.
Hi all, I didn't read this post until today (after I got my puppy from Icewind). I know the post was started at the beginning of this year and I did read the reviews from that one site that was posted above, I'm not sure if Icewind has changed in the way they do things now. I don't have any bad things to say about them...
When I first contacted them, I spoke with Karen and she answered all the questions I had asked, in a timely manner. I had also contacted a handful of other Shiba breeders, but none had gotten back to me, to this day I still haven't heard anything. (started my search of breeders early May this year) So I guess I "picked" Icewind because they were the only ones to get back to me. I know web sites can be misleading and some can be too good to be true. To be honest when I first went to their website, it looked a little fishy and I was a little hesitant, but decided to go ahead at make an appointment to visit anyway. Anyway, we made an appointment to go see the litter of pups they had available and when we got there, we were lead into a house/big garage that was set up with about 4-5 kennel pens. 3 pens were being used at the time, one had the mother and the litter of puppies that were available, another had 2 puppies that were a little older and were available, and the last one had (I think someone had asked if they were breeding Goldens too) a Golden and her pups. We were able to play with the puppies and spend time with them, probably for about 40 minutes or so, until they all decided to take a nap! The mother was in plain view and we did get to see the father and there was no hesitation or excuses to not see the father, as some of the negative reviews had mentioned. They actually do have a very large/fenced backyard where the dogs can run around and play with each other.
Anyway, I'm not trying to cause any trouble, just giving my personal experience/opinion of them. We took him to the vet the day after we brought him home and she said he was very healthy and had no health problems. Of course I do know that that can change as he gets older, but right now he's healthy and that's all that matters, right?
@chirpy81 - the reason why Icewind is able to contact you right away is because that is their business. Producing and selling puppies. So they have to contact potential buyers immediately if they want to make money. Whereas the more respectful and reputable breeders can sometime take a little longer to respond because producing and selling puppies is not their main source of income. It is something they do on the side for their love of the breed. I know when I was looking for my girl I didn't get a response right away. I even got emails 6 months already having my girl that another pup was made available.
I'm glad your experience with Icewind was not bad like many others have had. I do hope your pup grows up without any health problems in the future because I honestly do not think Icewind will help you with any future health problems with your puppy.
And a side note $1800 is a lot for a companion pup and probably more than a conformation/show quality pup.
I didn't get a chance to welcome you on your intro thread, so hi! You are welcome no matter where you got your puppy from. Your anecdote is an interesting counterbalance to all the other negative stories out there. I do know they read and keep tabs on their negative reviews, so I'm sure they've made attempts to change their practices, though the fact remains that there are some serious problems with their operation.
The fact that none of the other breeders you contacted ever got back to you is problematic. Now, I know the old-school process of finding a good breeder can take months or even years. Many breeders still prefer phone calls over e-mails. But because of the ubiquity of e-mail now, it seems like an acknowledgment would have been common courtesy. Anyway, I've heard this one a few times now, and it's always disappointing. I'm sorry you were unable to get even a simple "Thanks for your interest, we'll get back to you."
Still, it's hard to compare breeders who probably have full time jobs and families while being actively involved in dog events/communities on the side, versus a family that runs their puppy farm for a living. I hope that's something that people can keep in mind when accounting for response times.
Both ice wind and right puppy are money hungry scumbags that don't give a cahoot about their dogs and only have their eyes on the bottom line. I picked that up just from being in contact with them over the years trying to buy a puppy, which I never did.
I live in Los Angeles, so I haven't had a chance to visit their facilities as some of you have, but I've spoken with them on the phone at length...they are downright dirty.
Yes, we're happy to have anyone on the forums, so it's not problem in regards to that that you have an Icewind puppy, and it is good that your dog is healthy. Unfortunately, Icewind still is a very dubious operation who breeds mixed breed dogs and not to standard Shibas and sells them for well over what a pet should cost. I wish you the best with your pup, and hope you don't have the kind of problems some of us have run into with our puppy mill dogs, but still, I would advice everyone to stay FAR away from Icewind.
Wow I almost went with getting a puppy from Ice Wind or RPK glad I the puppy I was really interested in was sold lol. I eventually went with a totally different d=breeder after I talked to the guy on the phone and he told me he had 3 females due any day!
The icewindfarmreview.com site that @shibahiro linked no longer exists. According to a WHOIS report, the site was purchased by Karen Moore in March 2011, and now redirects to Icewind's own page.
I have some saved caches (as a 36 pp. Word document) from the original Ice Wind Farm review website. If anyone feels they need more information on the matter, please message me privately.
I bought a mini shiba inu from IceWind Farm back in March of 2009. Bella is the cutest little shiba but has had a LOT of medical problems with now we just found out a severe inflammatory bowel disease problem as well as severe colitis. I am struggling day in and day out to keep her healthy. She has me up almost three times every night. We have her on steroids to reduce the inflammation, etc. but when I reached out to Karen to see if any other the other 3 puppies from that litter had this problem or if she had ever come in contact with a situation like this, she emailed back:
"Hello Amanda, I wish we could help you, but I have never heard of anything like this. Karen"
I've spent countless dollars on trying to figure out this situation with Bella and I am thinking about writing in to the lidaesq@aol.com.
I think one of the folks on the Nihon Ken side had a dog with severe intestinal issues. Eventually he had to put down his dog. You may want to post an inquiry about intestinal/bowel problems on the Nihon Ken side.
@cli6cli6 - Mame Shibas are generally when a irresponsible breeder breeds two runts together to create a litter of smaller than normal Shibas. These dogs are generally riddled with health issues and it is not something that any responsible and reputable breeder would ever do. Shibas are small enough dogs as they are, there is no reason at all to make them smaller other than for profit.
Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia. I Wander, I Ride
@sunyata i think shibas are the perfect size. They are big enough to feel like a partner instead of a little toy pet and they are small enough that a 110lb girl like me can carry him somewhere if need be. idk how people have great danes. I'd freak out if something happened to my dog and I couldn't carry him to the vet or into a car
