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What the experts say about "The Dog Whisperer" (Cesar Millan)
  • CaliaCalia
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  • sunyatasunyata
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  • BradA1878BradA1878
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    Post edited by BradA1878 at 2011-01-24 21:02:29
  • BradA1878BradA1878
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  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2242
  • BradA1878BradA1878
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  • BradA1878BradA1878
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  • MegaenMegaen
    Posts: 265
    Ok so if it's been scientifically proven now that these methods are bad why does he still have his show shown? Granted I haven't read the entire thread as I have to go pick hubby up from work so if this was already asked sorry :(
  • BradA1878BradA1878
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  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    Pfff my brother is a Sasquatch and there's nothin interesting about him.

    Back on topic. There is a guy who frequents the dog park I visit who recently picked up that new dog book Dog Sense by DR. Bradshaw. He said that he was trying to use positive methods with Hank instead of the traditional methods he's used with all his previous dogs then began to read that book and really saw how much of a difference there was with Hank and his other dogs. He's convinced he's never going to train in the old methods again.

    And other people I meet are always going "shht!" to their dogs (who ignore them) or spew dominance crap about their dogs. Yesterday I was talking with someone who had a little red Border Collie. I was telling them about Juneau's problems with other dogs and how I've been working with her, and they instantly said "Oh she must be the dominant one." Honestly? Juneau doesn't have a shred of "dominance" in her, and when they said I should dominate her more I began to get standoffish and told them if I did that Juneau would break down. She has, since I've tried that before I actually knew what I was doing with dogs.
    Juneau is a very timid dog who happens to have intense BC drive, and when you combine those things together dominance training just flat out doesn't work. Period. It makes everything worse.
  • sandrat888sandrat888
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    Post edited by sandrat888 at 2011-06-28 16:57:51
  • BradA1878BradA1878
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  • sandrat888sandrat888
    Posts: 576
    Post edited by sandrat888 at 2011-06-28 20:15:58
  • BradA1878BradA1878
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    Post edited by BradA1878 at 2011-06-29 11:31:38
  • curlytailscurlytails
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  • lindsaytlindsayt
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    Post edited by lindsayt at 2011-10-06 13:31:17
  • SayaSaya
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  • CaliaCalia
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  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    Haha, yeah, that episode was great.

    My favorite part about the "Dog Whisperer"?
    "Do not attempt the techniques you are about to see without consulting a professional"
    That is shown before every segment of every episode, and I highly doubt that most if not all of the people who "use his methods" actually consult with someone first.

  • AraksAraks
    Posts: 399
    @Losech That's probably just there in case someone does use those methods and it makes their dog worse so that they can't sue him or whatnot.

    And that South Park episode cracks me up each time.
    Post edited by Araks at 2011-10-07 02:46:23
  • HamletHamlet
    Posts: 146
    I disagree with the "methods" espoused by CM, but I do appreciate how he encourages dog owners to learn how to read their dogs and feed their dogs the type of energy they want the dogs to emulate. I think most people don't understand their dogs very well and as a result, struggle with trying to figure out "why" something was happening. Or, they are nervous about something and the dog feeds off of that, making the situation even worse.

    From my own experience, learning to read my dog's mannerisms and redirect as necessary - as well as projecting the attitude I wanted the dog to take (calm, etc) - is vital in managing a high energy dog. It's helped alot with managing the pack integration for us.
  • HamletHamlet
    Posts: 146
    I actually don't follow CM at all XD

    I really enjoyed the Nova special on dogs...unfortunately, I've read more books on cat behavior than dog behavior! (Other than internet books)
  • Post edited by sandrat888 at 2011-10-10 18:30:16
  • AraksAraks
    Posts: 399
    @sandrat888 I completely agree in that he ignores a lot of the fearful signals. I remember seeing a couple minutes of an episode where a dog was running in the backyard scared with it's tail between it's legs barking, and all he said was along the lines of "He's being dominant and trying to protect his territory from us." It was pretty funny though, because my 15 year old sister was there and just said, "What's he doing? That dog just looks scared." So yeah, I think my little sister understands canine body language better than he does.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
  • AnnaAnna
    Posts: 621
    @lindsayt You've just given me nightmare material. XD I'm imagining a dog as clever as a Shiba and as vindictive and spiteful as my cat and it's turning into a Home Alone situation, except with the dog as Macaulay Caulkin and me as the bumbling burglars. Haha.
  • MegaenMegaen
    Posts: 265
    Found this via FB... it really is sickening to know this person has a tv show those poor dogs....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RFCGtatpCwI
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
    Post edited by Calia at 2011-11-05 12:13:43
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
  • OMG! Hi kicked the poor dog to instigate the whole thing! UNBELIEVABLE!!
    Things like that just piss me off! :-(
  • HamletHamlet
    Posts: 146
    @shibamistress My parents are always calling me the "Dog Whisperer" which is a bit silly and annoying! Yeah, I pay attention to what my dogs are telling me and watch their body language/etc. And yes, my dogs are well-behaved and friendly (unlike yours, sadly, mom and dad *cough*), but that doesn't mean that you need to be "Cesar Milan" to have well-behaved, good tempered dogs. I think my parents and sister would be surprised the amount of thought I've put into discplining in a positive way...and how, at the same time, I correct for behaviors they don't correct for (resource guarding etc. My sister said her dog growls at her when he has a chew bone as if it was silly!). I spent Saturday telling my mom not to correct her dog for growling at Hamlet since I'd rather he growl first than just snapping!
    Post edited by Hamlet at 2011-11-07 16:49:50
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    I shared this with Brad but totally forgot about this thread. It's a bit on the older side (2006) but still a good read.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/opinion/31derr.html?pagewanted=all
  • BrewSterBrewSter
    Posts: 193
    i would be in jail if i saw cesaer millan(or anyone) treat my dog like the video above...i dont see my household like a wolfpack where im the alpha but i am "the leader" and i look out for my family (Brewster included)
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    @shibamistress Yeah, that one gets to me too. A lot of people on the internet think I'm a guy, same in real life due to the way I dress and look but I'm not. I'm also not exactly thinking with emotions. I am a very instinctual person and I have to catch myself before I act. There's no emotion at play there. That really goes against what CM says about women, or at least I do.

    And he's totally wrong about animals not following lovable leaders. There was a tribe of baboons somewhere once and the "alpha" baboons all ate some poisoned meat and died, but none of the lower baboons did since the top baboons didn't let them have any. They took over and became a group of baboons without fights and such, something that had never really been seen before. They thrived without the constant struggle for the top spot.
    And also, there's a rather old documentary that follows a wolf pack. It had a very mean female who bullied the other wolves and was always causing unrest in the pack. She and her sister got into a fight and the sister basically killed her. The pack became very peaceful after that and like the baboons, thrived without constant fighting.

    I really did like that article though. I should post it on the Nihon Ken side too but I don't want to start the debate up again. I was kinda waiting for someone else to post so I didn't have to, like with the Shiba side XP
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
  • AnnaAnna
    Posts: 621
    @sandrat888 Yay, that's from my town! Several people I know (including the trainers I'm currently taking Hammond to) were in the group of "protesters" she mentions in the article.

    And I put "protesting" in quotes because they weren't really protesting (by my definition - they weren't saying negative things about Cesar or anything like that), they just stood outside and handed out reading material on positive training methods.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
  • SayaSaya
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