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Potty training woes
  • Ok, so we have had Sakura for 3 full days now... and she has taken up two very nasty little potty habbits.

    1. we take her outside, take her to a spot she has peed before and she sits down and just starts crying, shaking, and refusing to move an inch for the entire 10 mins she is outside

    2. If the above doesnt happen she will go pee outside (has yet to do #2 outside) get lots of love, and head to the door to go back in, then while we are hanging up her leash she will slink into the livingroom and go either poo or pee on the carpet (does not go on the linolium).

    The puppy pads were a complete waste of money, and we have been working on bell training her, but her favourite time to do either of the above is around 4 am.

    Example senario - 4 am puppy crying in crate, release the whirlwind, leash, walks downstairs, goes outside, cries, shakes and refuses to do anything / pees within the limited time, comes inside, sits to have leash removed, slink into livingroom and upon turning around to put her back to bed, puppy present of the 1 or 2 variety

    Any advice or suggestions to lessen these nasty habbits would be appreciated!Stefanie & Sakura Twin Cities - MN
    Post edited by notoriousscrat at 2012-12-12 15:45:09
  • Congratulations on your new puppy...I think I would put her in crate directly with leash on, once in crate, remove leash...I keep Koji's leash on top of his crate in case any midnight outings, (but he doesn't do that any more now that he's older...

    Try to think ahead and don't present an opportunity for her to do the thing that you don't want...

    Also would get "nature's miracle or another enzyme cleaner and douse the pee/poop spot so there is not a scented spot - she thinks that is her potty now so need to remove the scent completely...

    Good luck!
  • we have actually been using natures miracle since the beginning, and thankfully, she doesn't do it in the same spot twice! She's been doing really well at going when we take her out, this refusing to do anything and shaking is brand new, but she has her vet visit on Wednesday, so hopefully we can get a clean bill of health to go visit a puppy park to get her more used to being outsideStefanie & Sakura Twin Cities - MN
  • i wouldn't even do the pee pee pads, with shibas it just teaches them to go inside. Walk her after she eats or drinks, after she plays, after she wakes up. keep up with the praise like you've been doing, and the crate advice you've gotten is great.

    how old is she? if she hasn't gotten her full round of shots I'd hold off on the dogpark.
  • Alex575Alex575
    Posts: 171
    Congrats on the new puppy, Adonia1986!

    Monju was the same way when I first brought her home. She was 9-weeks old and when I took her out she would shake and cry (btw, this past Sat. the 13 has been one-month since she's been home). Monju was afraid of her own shadow and any noises like cars passing by, but after about two weeks or so she started getting used to it and she isn't too scared anymore unless it's a garbage truck making a lot of loud, scary noises or strange people talking loudly, LOL. In fact, now she'll shake if I'm running the vacuum cleaner or if she's exposed to something unfamiliar like a person or sound or a loud noise, but she isn't afraid of going outside. So it's a slow process but Sakura should get used to it all after a little more time has passed.

    I would pick Monju up from her crate if she would cry for the bathroom after we've gone to bed or for her regular bathroom breaks, and physically carry her to the spot outside. She would go after sniffing around for a few seconds and then immediately pee, but she would be ready to run full-tilt back inside the house, and if I made her stay out longer she would tremble and whine. So this is probably normal. I think I started making her walk to the door at about the third week; I'd put her leash on and tell her we're going "shi-shi" (Japanese for pee-pee). I'm also using the bell, which I hang by the door and ring every time I take her out but I'm not sure if she's made the connection yet. Mostly she just looks at it with this puzzled look on her face, LOL.

    When we'd get back inside, I'd take off the leash, wipe her paws with a washcloth, and put her back inside her crate immediately; and then it's back to sleep if it was the middle of the night. If it's in non-sleeping hours, I'd keep her crate door open and most of the times she would feel more comfortable inside with her toys, but I wouldn't leave her out of my sight unattended. If I had to go upstairs or cook dinner or whatever, I'd close her up in her crate. And she's never had an accident in her crate.

    But she's had about 4 accidents inside the house in the beginning, 1-solid and 3-liquid (solid happened after doing a shiba 500, two days after being at home--ironically right after we came in from a pee-pee!), and the other times were my fault for not taking her out when I should have; but accidents are the rule rather than the exception when it comes to puppies. And I've caught her mid-stream, pun intended, each time. So now, she can play and roam around inside the house if she's done her business (both # 1 & 2) outside, otherwise it's back in the crate for an hour and then back outside.

    In my case, Monju will go pee-pee immediately when she hits the grass but for #2, she has to move around and hunt for a different location. Now, if I know that if she hasn't had a bowel movement when we're outside I'll make her walk up a little to the next patch of grass and let her sniff around. If she still doesn't have one then we walk up the block. Mind you this is all during waking hours. Normally she doesn't do #2 in the middle of the night, at least not yet, but I have my bags ready. ;-) Also the other strange thing was for the first week, Monju NEVER did #2 in the daylight or the morning times. It was always at night.

    Of course, now she goes #2 in daylight and she no longer cries.

    My advice would be to not let Sakura roam after coming back in from outside if she hasn't done her business. Place her back in her crate, close the door, and take her out again in an hour. Sometimes you'll have to move around but not too far so that they can sniff and find their proper spot. I don't know what it is, but Monju will only poo in select spots. She'll pee the minute she walks toward the center of grass, but for #2 she has to sniff and hunt for that spot.

    I also followed the rules about taking her out every two hours, before bedtime and the first thing when waking up, and 30-minutes after meals. But Monju has her own schedule: she has never gone after 30-minutes of a meal, she might go #1 but never #2; mostly she just wants to nap after a meal, so I stopped doing that. Also, she didn't seem to have to go every two hours like some books suggest and I thought there was something wrong with her so I asked my vet and she told me that it's different for each dog; some dogs have stronger bladders and can hold it longer while others have to go more frequently. so it varies. I still take her out first thing in the morning and right before bed, and usually two hours after a breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So far, no accidents but I'm not confident that she'll ring the bell when she has to go, LOL.

    She'll whine loudly during the middle of the night when she's in her crate if she has to go, but I'm not sure about when she's lounging around or playing. We'll see.

    Also, I read in a book on Shiba's that using newspaper or puppy pads inside the house was a bad idea because it could lead to an unbreakable habit for Shiba's of going inside the house.

    One other thing, I asked my vet about dog parks and she absolutely FORBID it until Monju got her full round of shots because the puppies can catch some dreadful diseases like Parvo virus, which can kill them. So I'm holding off on that.

    Good luck!
  • Alex575 - Just had to say we use "shi-shi" too - We live in Hawaii, but I thought no one would know what it meant...sounds so much cuter than "pee"... :)
  • Kuro_KaiKuro_Kai
    Posts: 543
    Alex: to help with the bell training, try putting a dab peanut butter on the bell at about nose height right before your walk her. When she starts licking at the peanut butter (or whatever you decide will interest her, stick to the bell and come off quick), she'll ring the bell herself. You can praise her when she does (but don't treat, save it for when she potties outside). The reward for ringing the bell is you put on the leash and go outside.

    You ringing the bell may be some silly ritual you do before you open the door to her. But if she rings the bell, you get happy and she goes outside she'll start ringing the bell herself faster. And then if she gets to get rid of the full bladder and she gets a tasty treat too? Score!
  • Good news! I was a bit firmer with the crate training today and I think she is getting the hang of it! Only two liquid accidents today! Bell training has actually been going splendidly! I sewed together a little cluster of jingle bells and attached them to a strip of fleece (identical to the kind that her blanket is made of) knotted it to a hook and starting last night when she has been taken out to do her business we would jingle it and say "lets go potty", and then take her out the door to the designated spot. Today she rang the bell twice! The first time she did it, we took her outside and she did her stuff right away! Second time however, she tricked my husband (I was at work), rang the bell to just go play outside, then peed the minute they walked back in the door, just to spite him, because he wouldnt let her play!Stefanie & Sakura Twin Cities - MN
  • Yay for the bells working! Shibas are super quick to pick up on this kind of thing, and usually fairly quick to potty train too, though believe me I know it doesn't feel quick when you're in the midst of it!

    (I complained over on the NK side about slow Oskar, my AA puppy was, and people reminded me he was only 4 mos old. Now, at 5.5 mos, he's been accident free for over a month, and he goes to the door when he needs to go out--though he spurns the bells. Maybe he thinks that's a Shiba thing!)

    The only downside of the bell thing is that they do learn to ring it whenever they want to go out,or at least my Shibas quickly picked up on that. And btw, I doubt it was a spite pee. Dogs don't do that. It was probably more puppy forgetfulness: let's play, let's play, then back and the house and oops! I forgot I had to go! Better do it now!
  • kuhligkuhlig
    Posts: 57
    The first day we brought her home she was taken out every 2 hours. Whenever she would come in without pottying, we would either crate her or I would tether her to my belt with her leash so she couldn't go off and sniff. She only had two accidents and was fully potty trained by the second day. We didn't use bells. She will go stand by the door when she needs to go out.
  • So, here is the latest Sakura potty updates. Yesterday when she was with my husband, she only had 2 accidents. Today she has been home with me and hasn't pottied outside at all!
    Senario of day,
    wake up - potty time (went pee outside, upon instant return ie just inside the door #2, husband hadn't even closed the door yet) total time outside 10 mins
    1 hour later (crated for about 1/2) - 5 mins of crying
    30 mins later - #1 on the kitchen floor, instant trip outside to see if she is done, outside 10 mins
    30 mins later(crated) - #2 on livingroom floor, again trip outside to see if she is done, outside 10 mins
    1 hour later as I put on my shoes to take her out - #1 on the livingroom floor, still go outside 10 mins
    3 hours later (was in crate during this time), taken out once I get back from errands, goes #1 10 mins, I figure she is probably hungry, so I let her streach and wander for not even 5 mins when I catch her in the process of #2, taken out again 10 mins
    30 mins later (crated) - cries for 10 mins
    1 hour later (crated) - cries for about 10 more minutes
    30 mins later (crated) - husband comes home to greet her (not crying in crate), goes under the table and does both #1 and #2 before even greeting him (She slipped out of his hands after he opened the crate door)

    .... it is only 4 pm here and we have been outside a grand total of about 2 1/2 hours. I've done my best to do what the vet said about crate training, I've read puppy potty training books, I've taken her out every 1/2 hour when possible, given tiny pieces of hot dog for potty treats, and I've tried suggestions from this website, but as of yet, nothing is working. It's getting to the point where when my husband gets back from the store, Im going to the gym until she is in bed, because if I see or step in another puddle today, I might have roast puppy instead of turkey for thanksgiving (not really, Im just joking) I understand that sometimes it takes a while, and it takes alot of patience but promise me it gets better with time, I wont always be stepping in puppy puddlesStefanie & Sakura Twin Cities - MN
    Post edited by Adonia1986 at 2010-11-18 22:09:42
  • Alex575Alex575
    Posts: 171
    @ Koji's Mom - hahaha, that's what I thought when I decided to use "shi-shi" instead of "pee-pee!"

    @ Kuro_Kai - that's a great suggestion! No wonder Monju looks at me strangely each time we get to the door and I start ringing that bell, Bwahahaha! She's probably thinking that it's some kind of key or something to open the door and has nothing to do with going to the bathroom. She has this look on her face like "why is this crazy person ringing that damn bell all the time? I have to go to the bathroom!"
    I can't stop laughing at myself!

    @ Adonia1986 - when you take her out of the crate are you taking her immediately outside before she has an accident in the house? It seems like she's only going in the house. You should pick her up and carry from the crate to the outside when you take her out because if you let them step one foot outside the crate they'll try and go especially since they're in a new place and all that, but they won't go if you're holding them.

    As far as doing #2, I know Monju will try and come back into the house after she does #1, but I make her walk and sniff some more lawn and eventually she'll do #2. It's totally frustrating at times, we've all been there, so we know what you're going through, but hang in there!

    Maybe someone with more experience in potty training can chime in.
  • Kuro_KaiKuro_Kai
    Posts: 543
    Adonia1986: That was nothing like the routine we used with Kai... once we agreed on how to potty train (there was a bit of 'discussion' on how to best proceed). I could be off base but you may be taking her out so often she doesn't get a chance to get the idea that Outside = Potty.

    General consensus on the net was that Kai could reasonable hold it for his age in months + 1 hours. He also should be taken out within 30 minutes of eating and (this was a biggie) immediately after excited play / training. The rest of that time, he was supposed to be crated (the point of contention with my girlfriend). After mopping the floor 3 times a day, we set a schedule around the recommendations and kept him crated the rest of the time (plenty of chewtoys to keep him occupied tho).

    So basically we crated Kai for 3 hour stints and took him out after meals / play / training. When we took him out, we gave him 5 minutes to go. If he didn't go, we came in and went directly to his crate for another 10 minutes. Then tried again. Accidents quickly became just that: accidents.

    Getting him to tell us it was time to go out was another trial.
  • So, here is the lastest update on Sakura's potty training. She has only had one #1 accident in 2 days! Downside, despite how frequently she is outside, she REFUSES to go #2. She has only ever done it in the apt, even after just having gone #1 outside or having been on a walk. It's been a little over a week that we have had her and she will hold going #2 for over 12 hours! We take her out in the am and it is very obvious that she has to go, but just plain wont. She isn't backed up, she has no rectal issues, she gets plenty of food and water. In addition, the first time she went #2 since we owned her, she tried to eat it! I've heard that if a puppy is yelled at or has their nose rubbed in it, that something like this can start to happen. Neither my husband nor I have ever done anything other than, Clap - no, move to puppy pad.

    Like I said, she is doing AMAZINGLY when it comes to #1, even crying at the door when she has to go! However, #2, we are not sure if she doesn't feel safe doing it outside, if the breeder yelled at her for it, or what, but I can't imagine that a 11 week old puppy should be holding it for 12+ hours, and it definately cannot be healthy. I'm worried about my little lady, I want her to understand that going #2 in appropriate places is just fine, and if she has an accident, she doesnt need to eat it. Any ideas or suggestions on how to maybe make her more comfortable outside or encourage her to go #2?Stefanie & Sakura Twin Cities - MN
  • Kuro_KaiKuro_Kai
    Posts: 543
    Adonia1986: how far away from your house is your potty spot?

    Kai generally won't go #2 *anywhere* near the house. In the 3 months of owning him, he has only once not forced me to carry a bag of poo at least a block. He had a case of the runs once. He absolutely DEMANDED to go out RIGHT NOW, took off like a rocket as soon as the leash snapped on.... then dragged me a block away from the house before letting loose a projectile poo. Other people here have also said their Shiba won't go #2 near the house as well.

    Try increasing the distance from the house a bit. Basically Kai will go #1 within 5 min and a hundred feet of the house. But won't be until a block+ away before he goes #2
  • She has gone #1 almost the exact same spot, about 12 feet from the apartment. She presently refuses to go for even walks more than 30 feet from the front door of the building. After that point she sits, shakes/shivers, and screams. Until we either head back towards the door or we pick her up.Stefanie & Sakura Twin Cities - MN
  • Wow, Adonia, I have to admit that I'm beginning to wonder, too, if something happened with your girl that scared her around "potty" issues, because it isn't normal for a pup that young to hold it that long, or to be so afraid of walking away from the house. It sounds like she's scared, and that this is connected with going the bathroom for her. Poor girl!

    You're probably not doing it anymore, but since she sounds SO timid, I'd not even do the clapping thing if she starts to go in the house, because it sounds like anything is going to add to her fear.

    Is she timid in other ways? Walking, and going the bathroom, but does she seem like a timid, fearful dog in general? If so, she's going to need a lot of very patient, very calm care, so she doesn't get more scared.

    I wish I had more specific suggestions, but I gotta admit, this one is kind of baffling--I don't really know what to do either. I don't know where you live, but if you live in your own place where you could do this, maybe putting some of her poop in the appropriate outdoor potty space would help her understand it's ok to go there? I don't even know if that would help, but it just came to me as a possibility.
  • We live in an apartment in MN, and thankfully the only other things she has shown an abnormal fear of is a worker in a neon orange outfit, my husbands water bottle, and rolling chair wheels (just the wheels, not the actual chair).

    I don't understand why she is so scared of being outside in general, I guess its possible that she is still getting used to the city (she was born in a rural area, and we live not far from the Mall of America), but would that still be an issue after 2 weeks?

    She has now gone #2 outside twice, but even then it was a traumatic seeming experience, she did her normal cry when we started leaving the yard of the apt, but then my husband picked her up, and we walked around the block like that, about half way around, set her down, and she did cry a little, but then sniffed around and went, and of course, went back to crying. She also has refined her excrement eating habits, even when she has gone outside she does this now, she either goes for it as soon as she is done going or her new thing is to attempt to eat it AS she is going....

    My husband and I are getting pretty concerened about her, and before I thought this might just be normal shiba behaviour, but from what everyone is saying, there is definately something not right. We have never yelled at her and we have stopped clapping at her, if she has an accident, she goes outside (since she doesnt normally finish). So on Monday, a pet behaviourist is coming here to see if she can help. Has anyone ever used one before? Did they seem to help your little one?

    On the bright side, she finally likes her kennel now, she goes in there to nap occasionally, and at night goes in without any issues! Another plus is that she had only one #1 accident in two days! She goes to the door and either cries or pulls the bell then sits for us to get shoes, her leash, and coats. She also has developed an affinity for stealing my husbands school notes! She loves to run in circles with a sheet of paper in her mouth, making him chase her to rescue his homework! She even one time stole it from his hand :) (I'm so proud of my little clepto)

    Thank you for all the advice! I hope the behaviourist is able to give us a little insight and I will let everyone know the verdict!Stefanie & Sakura Twin Cities - MN
  • Gonna revive this thread to see if we can get a bit of help with our little man while I'm up anyway. So, we're having a hard time telling not only when Zim needs to go, but when's he's actually going/gone. He's doing that thing some males do where he stand on all fours and pees. We've had a total of three accidents so far (2 pee, 1 of which my husband managed to interrupt and take him outside for and 1 poo in his crate while we were out for about an hour and a half). Obviously we're failing, lol. We've tried just taking him out every 2 hours and waiting him out but that's hard when you don't know if he's gone (standing and peeing) and when all he wants to do is go back inside. All he'll do is whine and strain for the door or curl up on top of your feet pathetically (he even fell asleep doing this once!). I think he's cold. He was a lot better when I had him out this afternoon (he wanted to go for a walk and I wish I could have let him), but I also hadn't figured out that he just stands there to pee. We tried two different jackets to keep him warm enough while he's out there, but one he just sort of stands there with his tail down and the other he flipped over and tried to claw it off. At least he was good about letting me put them on.

    Thinking potty-training is going to be a challenge with him. I suppose that's what we get for him being so good otherwise (well, except for the crate, lol).
  • dorapochdorapoch
    Posts: 131
    Check his pee pee, if it's wet, he had gone.

    If we take Ginko out into our backyard, where there's no grass just dirt patches or cement, he'd have a tougher time going...he'd whine and run around like crazy looking for the perfect spot. I think his longest time doing this was 30min. Then we'd get tired and leave him outside alone while we watch him from inside and he'd go.

    I'm thinking of getting a bell or something for him to ring though because he doesn't bark or whine when he needs to go pee if he's outside the crate and just sits there or walk around near the door...I'm pretty good with keeping an eye on him but the rest of my family doesn't so when he's with them he'd have many wet accidents (one poop).

  • notoriousscratnotoriousscrat
    Posts: 1686
    All right, bumping this one more time.

    Zim is 90% potty trained for pee and 100% for poop. He hasn't pooped in the house for months (and is very insistent about going out if he needs to) but every couple of weeks or so he will pee in the house. The problem isn't supervision. We always see him when he pees and tell him no---but we can't rush him outside. He doesn't stop peeing if you pick him up, he just keeps going. He gives no sign that he needs to go, he'll just suddenly squat and let loose. It's also not marking because he will lift his lef to mark but does not do it in the house.

    So here's my question, how do we get that last 10%? We still supervise him 100% because of these accidents (as evidenced by the fact that we always catch his accidents). We always take him out when he asks. He gives no signs that he needs to go. We can't take him out during an accident because he does not stop peeing. He still gets treated for going outside. What else can we do for him? I'm just really not sure how to get him 100% there. He's been 90% potty-trained for about 1.5-2 months now. I'll think we might be getting there--it's had been 2-3 weeks since he had an accident and then he had one just this morning and I'll know that my hope that he was potty-trained is dashed.

    Help me out people. I'm at my wits end trying to think of how to fix this. It seems like everyone tells you how to potty-train but no one tells you what to do if your dog seems to get it and you're already watching them like a hawk.
  • FoxyloverFoxylover
    Posts: 971
    I would just go back to the basics and taking him out every couple hrs. whether he asks to go out or not. After he eats & plays too. Keep praising the heck out of him every time he goes outside. You can also restrict him to an area until he earns the privilage of being in other parts of the house. So every time he pees in the house he goes back to being restricted. He'll get the idea.

    Also, I hope you are using a odor cleaner liken natures miracle after cleanup so he isn't smelling his scent and marking his territory. My friends boy dog likes to pee in my house every time he comes over as a way of marking. It's frustrating for my friend as she will have just taken him out to pee before they come in and he does it anyway. We spend most of our time at her house now (0:
    Photobucket
  • notoriousscratnotoriousscrat
    Posts: 1686
    Yeah, take him out every few hours without asking is about the only thing I can think of at this point to do. He does have some times when he just goes out without being asked, like before we go out for a while either with or without him, before bed and shortly after waking. Also, he has access to only the same parts of the house he's always had---less, actually, because we blocked off a large part of the living room when we found we couldn't get behind chairs fast enough to keep him from having accidents there even when we physically followed him behind them every time.

    And we do use nature's miracle on all accidents, which seems to be doing its job because he goes different places rather than returning the same spot. And it's definitely not marking. He lifts his leg to mark and squats to just go to the bathroom (unlike some dogs who leg lifted based on whether the surface is vertical or not, he seems to pick based on whether he's marking or not). He always squats in the house.
    Post edited by notoriousscrat at 2012-05-04 19:14:07
  • notoriousscratnotoriousscrat
    Posts: 1686
    Bumping this again to see if anyone has anymore advice about incomplete potty training (it's really hard to find advice about this online!) or even just about how to possibly interrupt Zim when we catch him in the act so we can actually take him outside again. :( I really feel like we could get his potty-training finished up if we could just get him to stop peeing and take him outside! I feel like he knows that going outside is good but doesn't have the corollary that going inside is unacceptable and I really want to impart this to him.
  • GatsuGatsu
    Posts: 651
    Gidget is only 90 percent potty trained too. She'll pee in the house every once in awhile. Most of the time its because she gets over excited(when we get home and give her attention). But she did pee in the house while we were sleeping last night, which was the first unprovoked incident in awhile.

    But yeah sorry no tips im in the same boat.
  • notoriousscratnotoriousscrat
    Posts: 1686
    Maybe they have bad potty training genes! Hopefully someone will have some tips for the both of us then. I think the thing I find most frustrating about this is that plan A: going back to the beginning and never letting them out of your sight isn't an option---he's never had an accident out of our sight! So I sort of wonder what you're supposed to do when you're doing everything by the book. If you just keep at it does it eventually work or what?
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1233
    Juni was so easy to potty train, she never pooped indoors and peed less than 10 times including a few times when she actually wet herself in her sleep to her own horror! I heard males are more difficult though. I would make sure the pup has a
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1233
    Sorry trying to write on my stupid iphone. A place where he feels safe I meant to write. Shibas seem very careful with selecting the right spot. Long grass, bushes are good. And no distractions! I know a shiba owner who's male refused to do no 2 outdoors in his home area for a long time so every time they went somewhere- the kids soccer practice, shopping or whatever they brought him along so he could poo outdoors and not upstairs in their house...
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8315
    @notoriousscrat - What are you doing when you catch him having an accident?
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • notoriousscratnotoriousscrat
    Posts: 1686
    Well, how we had been doing it was I'll say a sharp "no" and then pick him up and take him outside. Praise lavishly when he finished outside. Picking him up used to get him to stop peeing, but now he'll just keep peeing. I'm not really sure how else to get him to stop peeing because I'd heard they'll just stop if you pick them up and that doesn't work anymore. Definitely open to suggestions on that one. Because he doesn't stop peeing we can no longer take him outside to finish which I feel like isn't helping him get the message. We still tell him no and attempt to pick him up just in case though.
    Post edited by notoriousscrat at 2012-05-07 14:48:46
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8315
    Wrap him with a towel when you pick him up to prevent a 'line of pee' to the door. (Which means you will always need to have a towel handy in every room.)

    Also, have you taken him to the vet to check for a UTI?
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • notoriousscratnotoriousscrat
    Posts: 1686
    Towel's a great idea. Haven't checked for a UTI because his accidents are infrequent enough that it didn't seem like a health problem (every 1 to 2.5/3 weeks) but frequent enough (less than 30 days) that it did seem like he just wasn't potty trained yet. You're thinking this might be a UTI, though?
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8315
    It is possible. You might want to have him checked before pulling all of your hair out, though. Especially if it seemed that he 'got it', then kind of regressed.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • jsanjsan
    Posts: 15
    Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I am having potty training issues with Yomi, my 8 week old pup. She has been peeing a lot in little bits around the house without warning. After having read some older threads and getting advice from other members, I am taking her in once the clinic opens to check for a UTI.

    The other problem I am having with Yomi is that she has no disregard for where she poops. I have been able to stay home for the past 5 days since we got her and I have been watching her behaviors before she pees or poops. She does the sniffing around routine before pooping but it is very quick - usually well less than 10 seconds. She will then squat and fire out a log like a torpedo and be on her way in less than 5 seconds. I have been able to catch her in the act a number of times. I would clap my hands loudly and give her a firm "NO". Then I proceed to pick up the little bombs in a napkin and place them outside in the grass, bringing her with me. Then I point to it and show her that is where she has to go potty. I have been able to time it right where I take her out and she poops in the grass. I heap lots of praise combined with some of her treats and belly rubs and point out that she did a good poop and all that.

    Despite my best positive reinforcement training efforts, she just does not seem to comprehend or care. I know she is 8 weeks old and still pretty young, but I was hoping to at least have developed some association with pooping and the outdoors and getting rewarded. What really gets me is she will poop more inside 10 minutes or so after she just pooped outside. I haven't been crating her much since I am home now, but I will be back at the office tomorrow and I am usually gone a solid 7-8 hours. I know that is a loooong time for a little puppy bladder and bowels, so I am scheduling a mid-day break to return home and let her out for potties. Perhaps that will help teach her some self control? I am also considering rigging up a jingle bell by the door and teaching her to use that to signal when she wants to go out.

    Also, I have a 2 year old Maltese named Rory. We got him as a puppy and he is excellent with pottying and will sit by the door to let me know he has to go out. I used the same training techniques on him as well. The two of them seem to get along well together and they are crated together. It really isn't a crate, but more of a large dog kennel enclosure. The floor has a soft fleece mattress and we keep toys, chew sticks, blankets, and other things in there when they are left alone together. The longest we have left them in the kennel is about 3 hours. (Rory is able to easily go 7-8 hours without issues). Yomi did well then and did not soil the mattress and she pottied right away outside when we got back. Would crating them together cause any issues for potty training? She is about 7lbs. now and Rory is about 6.5lbs. so they are evenly matched in size. Would any issues arise once she gets bigger than him?
    Post edited by jsan at 2012-09-03 09:20:19
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
    I would suggest you don't take your puppy outside JUST to poop or pee. They might figure it out and not oblige you - Tatonka certainly didn't very quickly. Make it an activity, make it long, and they'll help you out too.

    Don't go back inside right after - take some time.
    Monkey!
  • jsanjsan
    Posts: 15
    Agreed. I do try to give them some play time outside following potties. I guess I worry about them thinking that the purpose of going outside is to play and not potty, and then end up confusing them.

    At any rate, the vet did confirm that Yomi has a UTI and she is now on antibiotics to treat it. While waiting for her, I had a coffee at the local Caribou Coffee and downloaded an e-copy of "Before You Get Your Puppy" and "After You Get Your Puppy". I managed to read the before book and it was quite enlightening. I learned quite a bit and hope to be able to properly train Yomi. We have puppy kindergarten starting next Monday so I hope things will go well!
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    Sorry to hear about Yomi's UTI.

    I also just wanted to put in that I used a bell to train Mitsu. We don't use it now that she's an adult and we have a yard and play outside frequently, but it was AWESOME having her ring the bell whenever she had to potty when I lived in an apartment and her potty trips were more frequent. I loved the bell! Once she was trained to use it to go outside, I never had to worry about not knowing when she needed to go. And even though we don't have the bell out anymore, if Mitsu needs to use the bathroom in between playing out in the yard, she'll nudge the door knob, haha.
    Post edited by atlas at 2012-09-04 11:26:21
  • MacMac
    Posts: 61
    I have a weird potty question and I'm at a total loss as to what to do. My pup will only go on non absorbent surfaces on our patio. He sees grass as yay fun time chase bugs and run around and roll around time. When he sees another dog go on grass he will whine and get upset at them for messing his play place.

    It started when we first got him. The old grill cover on the patio. After our first day and two accidents he started going on that while I was at work. The roomies didn't tell me he didn't on walks. So he took that to be the most logical place to go. I would take him out for an hour after breakfast and dinner. Let him smell the places they went, even sat around letting watch other dogs do their business and then promptly smell to make the connection. No dice. As soon as we were back inside, he would go straight to the grill cover and go.

    When we moved a few weeks later I decided it was time to ditch the grill cover. He did not go for that. He held it for 24 hours which scared me for a pup of 5 months. As soon as he got near the grill cover at the old place for day two of the move he went.

    Since we are at the new place I had to get one of those astro turf potty training pads because he will not go any place else. I can't leave samples of #2 on the grass by the apartment to encourage him cause property management would kill me.

    Any suggestions how to get past the potty pad and go outside?
  • jsanjsan
    Posts: 15
    Mac, perhaps you can take the potty pad out to the grass when you take your pup potty? My friend who has a Maltese-Yorkie mix had a similar issue with the potty pads and she got her dog to go on the grass by first starting with the whole pad on the grass, then cutting it smaller and smaller till the dog would just potty on the grass. Hope that may provide something useful for you. Good luck!

    atlas, I will use the bell. I've tied the bell onto the doorknob with bowstring so it will withstand Yomi's tugging. Right now, she just plays with the bell and hasn't gotten the connection with it and potty yet.
  • @Mac Is there a reason the dog has to go to the bathroom outside instead of using the potty patch?

    Otherwise I'd what jsan suggested seems like it's a good plan.

    @jsan There are two possible concerns with crating your dogs together. The first is that your pup may not view the crate as denlike enough not to soil the crate because she has too much space and if she does soil the crate then both have to deal with the mess. The second objection is that if your dogs have a disagreement, they can't get away from each other.
  • jsanjsan
    Posts: 15
    notoriousscrat, yes. My biggest fear is if the two of them have a row and start a serious fight. I don't ever want to come home to a bloody mess! Fortunately, Yomi does view the crate as her space and has not yet pottied in it. She has been doing pretty well holding it while in there and then relieving herself outside. I am hoping she is developing the correlation between outside potties = treats and inside potties = nothing. So far, she still pees inside while out of her crate but I am wondering if it may partly be due to the UTI or the fact that she seems to just love filling her belly with water. She drinks what seems to be way too much for such a little puppy and has even vomited up the water a couple times. She acts as if we are trying to dehydrate her or something! The only time we ever take away the water is a couple hours before bedtime and I did not think that should be a problem.
  • MacMac
    Posts: 61
    Thanks for the replies!

    I want him ok with going outside so we can travel without the mat. I personally like it especially with winter coming. I don't think my pup will like snow that much.

    The big push is one on the roomies says the dog is taking over the patio. I guess my " duh he is took over. He is a shiba. You know shibas "reply wasn't the most politically correct reply to give either lol . Then he complained about the smell even though I clean the thing every day or two and never leave #2 on it. He keeps looking to find reasons to complain about it. So if I can at least get the dog going out sometimes he won't have grounds to complain about it.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3453
    @Mac...Jackie (my shihtzu mix) had the same problem at first. I tried the same thing Jsan recommended but no go. I think the potty pads was the problem...so i got the potty PATCH, which is the artificial grass WITH a scent that lures them there. No problem. She loved using that but still didnt go outside. Long story short? I took Bootz out to potty all the time since she doesnt go inside the house, and left Jackie at home. She put 2 and 2 together, and realize she has to go outside to GET to go outside. Now she goes potty outside no problem :)
  • jsanjsan
    Posts: 15
    I don't know if this is something specific to just my Shiba, but I noticed that Yomi's rectal/anal area "poofs" up a bit or swells when she has to poop. Otherwise, it is pretty much sunken in like an innie bellybutton. That observation alone has pretty much eliminated accidental poopings inside and made us happy parents! If I look at her bum and see the anus flush with the rest of her rear end, then it's time for potties. If it sticks out like a button, then eruption is imminent! Haven't noticed anything as specific with her when she wants to pee, but she does the sniffing around thing for that.
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1587
    This article popped up on Facebook and I thought it would be nice to post it. It's a older article, but timeless.

    Dr. Yin lays out some pretty specific advice(which is pretty much what we have followed).

    I hope it helps some new Shiba owners here!

    http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/what_to_do_when_your_puppy_potty_training_plan_fails
    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
  • @Adonia1986, I must say that it is quite interesting to see that you are from the Twin Cities. So am I! :) I've been wanting to setup a Shiba meet up group sometime soon. Would you be interested?

    * By the way, Sakura is adorable! * :)

    -♥♥♥-
    photo 6b74d441-46df-4852-af9a-1f765aea9bb0.jpg
  • Love the article: potty as a pastime! This is so what is happening with my akita puppy. She's just like, oh, I know I was just outside, but I feel an urge so I'm going to pee right here, even though I was outside less than 10 minutes ago. And oh, let me drink ALL THE WATER ON THE PLANET so I can pee some more!

    I've been super lucky to have easy to housetrain pups, though, so a more difficult one is not really that big a deal, though it does get frustrating some!
  • Ok...we were doing so well...only 5 pee accidents (mostly my fault) on carpet only....and ALL were caught in the act and Bo was taken outside immediately to finish. And Bo pees 7-8 times a day. We HAD had NO accidents with him pooing in the house. We KNOW he poo's twice in the morning and once in the evening with two of them right after eating.

    Anyway...my wife went downstairs and accidently left the basement door open (the basement is carpeted). I had just let him out and he had peed say 15 minutes earlier...no poo. Well...I go downstairs and notice the basement door open and that Bo is not in the kitchen, where he normally spends the majority of his day, I go downstairs and sure enough I find Bo sniffing his pile of poo right on the carpet.

    Now I did not catch him in the act so...I calmly went over to him...picked him up and brought him upstairs. No scolding, no comments, no anger (except at my wife...LOL). My question is if I handled this correctly? Should I have scolded him...would that have been better so he knows what he did was incorrect or would that have done more harm than good?

    I DO NOT WANT him learning that it is OK to go anywhere in the house....only outside...there are no puppy pads...no places anywhere in the house I want him eliminating himself...thus my concern over my reaction. It is just that what I have read so far has stated that unless you catch him in the act....their ability to associate that scolding with what they did just isn't there. Is that correct???
    Post edited by KirkMango at 2014-02-15 11:53:03
  • brscrnsbrscrns
    Posts: 447
    I would never scold even when caught in the act.
  • brscrns...are you saying a dog should never be scolded for anything they do...as in "NO" or "STOP" or "OFF"...a situation where one's voice becomes a little lower in tone?
    Post edited by KirkMango at 2014-02-15 12:08:34
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    Not for potty accidents. Marking is different, but with puppies scolding will be counter productive in that they are smart enough to sneak away next time so you can't see them soil inside.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg

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