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Kai's 16 week vet visit... And questions
  • Kuro_KaiKuro_Kai
    Posts: 543
    Took Kai in for his 16 week stabbing. Vet scheduled him a week early as he hits 15 weeks tomorrow. Kai also had 2 incidents of loose and watery stool over the weekend so we brought in a sample.

    Stool: Vet tech said everything looked "Perfect" (I hate when people use the P word). But all stool samples brought in are required to be backchecked by the lab so it doesn't matter that he used the P-word. Given Kai had 2 incidents of loose / watery stool out 5 times this weekend, I'll wait for the lab results.

    Vaccinations: He now has a gold tag hiding behind his dog tag saying "Rabies Killer" (I hope). Vaccinations given were:
    Distempter
    Adenovirus 2
    Parvovirus
    Parainfluenza
    Coronavirus
    Bordetella
    Leptospirosis
    Rabies
    Vet really did a number on Kai here. Didn't think to ask the vet to space them out so it's too late now. Doc also gave him Interceptor as a general dewormer.

    Behavior: Kai is surprisingly strong for a 10lb puppy... And my girlfriend's soft heart will be her undoing. Kia doesn't like the vet's exam table. And I think he remembered the last time what was coming next when the vet grabbed the sharp pointy thing. Kai went from the table (where my girlfriend was allegedly holding him >.<), onto her chest and started over her shoulder. Again earning us the admonishment that we needed to handle Kai more. <br />
    This time I wasn't in the mood to hear it (I'm catching a cold) and replied "No, he's fine with us. He just doesn't like you". When I'm sick, I have 0 tolerance for stupidity. When the vet tech went to permanently attach Kai's rabies tag to his collar I said "I'd appreciate it if you didn't permanently attach such an important item to something as temporary as his *puppy* collar". Yes, we'll be shopping for a new vet in the down time.

    Now for the questions:
    On the vaccines can someone tell me what some of these are and how necessary they really are? I know Rabies, Parvo and Bordetella (which is required because we're prolly gonna doggie daycare Kai once a week). But next time around it'd be nice to know which ones we can safely skip if any.

    Any side effects / reactions we should look for after getting stabbed? Last time, Kai complained about anyone touching the injection sites for a couple hours after and then was fine. He's napping now but we're trying to decide whether to take him to Puppy Socialization tonight.

    I've never heard of Interceptor before. Any comments / suggestions / reviews? And what's a better technique of giving pills to Kai than the vet tech's "Pry the jaws open, drop the pill in and stick a finger down his throat so he swallows"?
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    Mitsu's rabies shot caused a small lump to form on her back. It doesn't cause her any pain, but I took her to the vet to get it looked at just in case. Apparently it's a very common side effect and will eventually go away. It doesn't happen to every dog so it may not happen to Kai. Other than that, Mitsu actually handled her 16 week shot set very well (after being sore after previous shots) and she and Kratos played the night away. So you may be able to take Kai to puppy socialization...then again, he got every shot at once, so he may be more sore than Mitsu was. I would say play it by ear and see how he feels.

    I have read both on here and on other sources that lepto may not be necessary, but I let the vet give Mitsu lepto because there had been a few days of rain at the time and dogs pick lepto up from drinking in puddles that may carry the bacteria. And I know for a fact that Mitsu has sneaked in a sip from random puddles on the road before. I would say research it to see how you feel about it, but I trust my vet and she said she thought it was a good idea.

    I am of the opinion that Bordetella is unnecessary, but Mitsu had to get it to start doggy daycare this week. My vet only gives that based on request.

    We handle Mitsu all the time, every day, every part of her body, and she still reacted like the vet was killing her for her last set of shots (was fine for her first two). She scratched my chest in an effort to get away, and if I had not been keeping a handle on her harness, she would have jumped out of my arms. Maybe it's an age thing? In her spam thread, some members suggested taking Mitsu for short, fun trips to the vet, like to pick up heartguard, that way she can have more positive associations with going to the vet. Maybe you can start that with your new vet, building up the positive associations before Kai goes in next time?

    I have never heard of Interceptor before, either. We use heartguard plus and it acts not only a preventative for heartworms but it also kills any intestinal worms that the dogs may pick up (interceptor may do the same, I'm not sure). My dogs eat it as though it's a treat - it tastes good to them. So if you have trouble getting Kai to eat interceptor, heartguard may be a better option.
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    On pilling your dog --

    We used Interceptor for a while, and I think I actually prefer it over Heartgard, mainly because I don't know what kind of funky "chicken-flavored" meats they use to coat the drug. We're also trying to avoid processed chicken altogether.

    Bowdu doesn't have any problem taking his pills. We usually encase them with a small amount of yumminess like plain cream cheese, Greek yogurt, or peanut butter. He licks it right up and doesn't spit it back out. He will spit it out if the yummy stuff isn't "sticky" enough though -- plain generic yogurt, for example, won't do. For small pills that can be taken with a meal, you can just toss it in kibble or bury it in the mush, but you do have to watch and make sure your dog didn't pick it out. Sometimes you can also slip the pill into a small handful of training treats/kibble/blueberries/small nummy pieces, offer it to your dog in a cupped hand, and they'll eat it all up in a few gluttonous chomps. We also have a pill right now that's not to be taken with soy or calcium, so we stuff it in a mini marshmallow as a pill pocket.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
    Post edited by curlytails at 2010-10-11 18:21:04
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6675
    How big is the pill never used interceptor before.. When I gave Saya pain meds from her spay I hid it in a sardine..
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    Our heartguard is beef-flavored. It says "real" beef but of course that doesn't mean much and a quick search hasn't given me much more information...so who knows. But we definitely stay away from chicken here as well, as we are aware that chicken is one of the more common shiba allergens.
    Post edited by atlas at 2010-10-11 19:21:36
  • emmyemmy
    Posts: 553
    On pills...

    My friend has a husky that does the "open her mouth and shove the pill down her throat with your finger" method. I WISH I could do that with my dog. If I had a puppy, I probably would if I could, just because I think it's useful to be able to build trust and get into your dog's mouth any time you want to get things out/put things in.

    HOWEVER....I didn't have a puppy, I had a dog that wasn't about to let me touch his mouth when I got him (although we're doing better). I put the pill in a piece of hot dog or on a treat coated in peanut butter. Either way he gobbles it up. He takes two pills a day! He's only found the pill once, and he was like....why the heck would you put this in my food?? But the rest of the time the peanut butter or hot dog totally fool him. :)
  • You will want to do leptospirosis if you live in an area with wildlife--which could include city areas with rats, raccoons, possums, etc.
    http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/leptospirosis_g.htm#What is leptospirosis

    You will also want to continue w/ distemper shots.
    http://www.animalhealthchannel.com/distemper/index.shtml

    Interceptor is a heartworm/other worm preventative. My experience has been that dogs will gladly eat this because it smells like liver (or something similar).
  • Interceptor is what we use, and a number of vets and/or breeders that I've heard about seem to prefer it (in fact my friend's breeder is making him switch from Heartguard to Interceptor).

    Honestly, we didn't do leptovirus, and after puppy class no bordatella either since we don't board her or do puppy daycare. I've come to realize that my vet is fairly conservative with vaccinations in part because she's pretty aware that some dogs have a really bad reaction, and she gauges and explains the risks to us. To be perfectly honest, since you're in downtown Philly (or was I imagining that you are around center city?) I would have skipped the lepto. You're in a far more urbanized area than we are (downtown Princeton) and our vet thought that the risk was pretty low.

    As for general pill taking and vet tech treatment, I would definitely find a new vet. One of the reasons that I like our vet is that they approach everything so casually that they lull the little one into a false sense that everything is just normal. She's never freaked at the vet except apparently after we left her alone for her spay, when she was a bit timid but that was it. She was relaxing in their arms after the spay and we recently took her in to get checked due to loose stools and they took her blood and there were absolutely no issues. Vet techs that act skittish or paranoid around puppies tend to get a worse reaction from the dogs I feel. I think one of the reasons that Violet is always so relaxed at the vet is because they sort of just behave like nothing they are doing is out of the ordinary and so she just takes it in stride (in fact she wags when she sees the vet). Also apparently they like to cuddle her after she'd done with everything. I actually used the vet as the model for how I cut her nails, and used the same principle for pills. For pills we've always just pretended they were treats and would make her do tricks for them. For the non-flavored ones we wrap cheese around it (not even that well) and again make her do tricks. You might want to try that first.
  • emmyemmy
    Posts: 553
    Oh yes! I forgot that part! I tell Toby in my excited voice that it's time to take his medicine. He likes it! And he has to do a trick to get it. He sits immediately and waits for his instructions. I was really worried about giving him medicine but it's SO EASY! Getting him to come inside after he trees a possum....now THAT'S a challenge! ;)
  • Kuro_KaiKuro_Kai
    Posts: 543
    I do know for a fact there is a family of raccoons living somewhere behind my apartment building. I've seen a couple in the garbage cans in the driveway where I park my bike. Bold too with no fear of humans. Dunno about lepto... Will have to research the downsides over the next year.

    The vet's "table side" manner was kinda off-putting. I don't doubt his knowledge or expertise. Just that he seemed a little cold. Better than the other vets tho, some of which wanted to pre-label Kai as a trouble dog because he was a Shiba. Next meetup I can get to, I'll ask the other owners where they take their Shibas.

    We took Kai to the pup social tonight since he seemed his normal self. Other than finding his match in a Toy Yorkie named Rocky, nothing seemed amiss. Think the size threw him for a loop, too small to pin and kept missing with his flying tackles.

    We have a 6 month supply of Interceptor so we'll see how he goes with that while researching other options.

    Emmy, with Kai it wasn't a matter of trust since he definitely didn't trust anyone in the office (and was prolly kinda sketchy on us for bringing him there). It was a matter of not having the jaw strength to resist the dude and the teeth to make him think twice about his technique.
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    Just came up with another reason that one might want to choose Interceptor (milbemycin oxime; Sentinel also contains this) as opposed to Heartgard (ivermectin) as I was looking up some information for Comfortis, an oral flea medication that my vet recommended so that we can bathe Bowdu more regularly. Turns out the Comfortis-ivermectin combo can be deadly; FDA says it's bad bad bad if the dog is receiving "extra-label" high doses of ivermectin, like for mange treatment, but normal dosing levels should present no problem with Comfortis. Still, there are lots of concerned pet parents out there on the internet who claim that Comfortis is doing all sorts of wacky things to their dogs who are also on Heartgard.

    Will talk to the vet tomorrow about this.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • You might want to check out Dr. Jean Dodd's vaccination protocol for dogs, here: http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-CHG-VACC-PROTOCOLS.HTM

    Akitas are known to have averse reactions to vaccinations, and it wouldn't surprise me if Shibas often do as well (my male Shiba got rather ill last time he had his vaccinations). I think minimal vaccinations better, though of course puppies need their set of puppy vaccs. I followed Dr. Dodds recs for my Akita puppy.
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    curlytails - did you ever get more information on the comfortis/heartguard combo?
  • Hey Atlas,

    The vet assured us that it's not a problem if they're receiving proper doses of both. We're on our second dose of Comfortis, and it really eliminates fleas. We have no adverse side effects to report. And since we have something like 8 months of Heartgard left for each dog, this'll be the way for a while...

    However, I found it worrying to see all these negative comments on Fully Vetted:
    http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2008/march/comfortis-flea-killing-wonder-drug-and-general-state-flea-drug-resistance

    I'm also a little disturbed to see that Dr. Khuly hasn't provided a follow-up response, given that this is one of her most-commented posts. One also has to keep in mind that people would have more incentive to report adverse effects, instead of "nothing to report because everything is normal." Hmm, maybe I'll leave a comment to that effect...
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • atlasatlas
    Posts: 360
    Thank you for the information! I appreciate it.
  • KiichigoKiichigo
    Posts: 19
    This thread seems pretty closed, but I've been seeing some side effects after giving my puppy interceptor pills given by the vet. She's about 4 months now and we've been giving her interceptor every second week as prescribed by the vet. She just had her forth pill yesterday. Now normally she doesn't get eye boogers very much, but we noticed that she's been getting a very large amount of them for about 4-5 days after she takes her interceptor pill. we thought it was just a random allergic reaction, but it seems to flare up each time she takes her interceptor pill.
    Anyone else experience this type of side effect?
  • spacedogsspacedogs
    Posts: 315
    Have never used that one but if you have a concern definitely bring it up with your Vet.
  • KiichigoKiichigo
    Posts: 19
    I brought her to the vet 2 weeks ago. They examined her eyes and couldn't find anything wrong with them, other than the accumulation of eye discharge. They weren't scratched (from a dye test), her eye whites weren't red either, and there wasn't any swelling. They ended up giving me eye drops (0.3% tobrex), as a precaution, which I use for 5 days and her eyes cleared up quite nicely. A week later we gave her the interceptor, as prescribe, and the eye boogers came back.
    Post edited by Kiichigo at 2017-05-18 05:22:52
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8363
    @Kiichigo - Why are you giving Interceptor every two weeks? It should be given monthly.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • KiichigoKiichigo
    Posts: 19
    @sunyata
    I received the interceptor as a prescription from the vet when I brought her in for her 2nd set of shots. The vet prescribe me to give her a pill every 2 weeks for a total of 6 pills. I'm just following the directions. I'll call them tonight and mention that they're potentially causing some negative symptoms in my puppy. thanks for the comment
  • imBLASIANimBLASIAN
    Posts: 412
    @Kiichigo - I've been giving Interceptor to Ponyo for 1.5 years now (since we had a scare with Comfortis at about 12 weeks) and we've always given it monthly. I think the box says monthly as well....
  • KiichigoKiichigo
    Posts: 19
    @imBLASIAN
    just got back from the vet again and they changed the prescription for the pill to be taken monthly. They told me to monitor the excessive eye discharge for now.. Hopefully it won't come back after the next pill. Just to give you guys an idea what the discharge was like:

    What caused me to be concerned (morning picture):
    img src="photo IMG_8967_zps4xh2ocp3.jpg" />

    What caused me to go to the vet (afternoon when i came home for lunch):
    img src="photo IMG_9354_zpscehml01i.jpg" />
  • imBLASIANimBLASIAN
    Posts: 412
    @Kiichigo - hopefully that solves the issue!
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8363
    @Kiichigo - If your vet initially prescribed Interceptor for every two weeks, find a new vet ASAP.

    Poor pup. Hopefully proper dosing will help her eyes. If not, I would find a new vet and take her in.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride

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