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Rewards and treats on a raw diet
  • chingalingchingaling
    Posts: 112
    Hiya

    I've done a lot of reading about Raw /BARF food habits both online and also on the forum.

    Personally, I feel its the direction I want to take when I get my first puppy next month, but it got me wondering...

    I understand that people use dog treats and kibble to train and reward their dog and to encourage good behaviour, but are there any tips for training my shiba when Im going raw?

    Or should I feed my Shiba raw based, and use kibble as a treat for training?

    Is it easy to train a Shiba without the use of kibble/treats?

    Sorry if its a silly Q. My first pup and I wanna make sure Im well prepared.

    Thanks!
  • Not a silly question at all.

    I feed RAW and I do a lot of reward based training. I use a number of different things for treats
    berries (specifically blueberries and raspberries)
    chopped up nibbles of sweet potato or carrots
    sardines
    cooked bits of meat (most people probably would say chicken however two of my three dogs are allergic to chicken and eggs)
    dried liver
    string cheese (a crowd favorite)
    and probably my most reliable treat is
    venison and fish jerky from this company
    http://www.realmeatpet.com/Real_Meat_Treats.html
  • I also feed raw and also give a lot of training treats. I am not nearly as creative as Jessica, but for treats I use cheese (yep, string cheese is a huge favorite), dried liver, dried chicken breast strips (broken in pieces), tiny dried fish which I find in the cat treats aisle of Petco/Petsmart, hot dog bits (another favorite), and I also give grain free kibble as treats.Lisa and Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akitas) and Leo (Kai Ken)
    From the House of the Fox Dogs blog
    Why it's Not About Dominance
    Bel's thread: the story of a puppy mill Shiba's life
  • Serkle kSerkle k
    Posts: 974
    Primal also makes really good meat variety treats. I usually use the Chicken jerky treat as a "high value" reward to re-enforce Stella's basic training so she doesn't get bored with it. I've also seen freeze dried and dehydrated meat treats. I can't recall the names off the top of my head though.
  • Hahah I feed Primal and I didn't know they make treats. I have to look into those.
  • chingalingchingaling
    Posts: 112
    Ah thats a relief. Some great ideas there.

    I guess I'm taking a lot of this planning for granted. I'd really like my pup to follow a raw diet but hadn't really given much thought to if he was going to have an allergy - particularly to chicken :(

    Reading up on all the RAW food fans here is certainly reassuring. I try and follow a raw/protein-focussed diet myself, and its great to know that I can use the same philosophy with my doggy.

    The way I (try) to see it is - if I don't recognise the ingredients, don't eat it.
  • Yeah, allergies can complicate matters.
    The shiba I had was allergic to all grains.
    Ruby my pit bull is allergic to chicken, turkey, duck, grass, mold, and all tree pollens
    Miko my shikoku is allergic to chicken
    Hilo my akita isn't allergic to anything other than hard work.
  • There is a company that does dried sweet potato treats. Stella and Cheweys does a variety of freeze dried treats. Be careful with the dried chicken jerky (and other jerkys). Check the provenance first since a lot of companies source from china. We've been using the jerky from trader joes since it's the only one I found from the U.S.

    Not exactly a training treat, but as an occasional treat I will buy Violet some salmon or flying fish roe and give her a tiny but every day over the course of a week. She adores the stuff.


    Out of curiosity, why string cheese? The portability and relative lack of odor? I love cheese so there's a huge variety at home and I just tend to use that, but I am curious. String cheese always struck me as kind of artificial so I am surprised to find it listed as a treat, but I really know nothing about string cheese and am curious.
  • String cheese also isn't as aged as many others and has very few additives.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Saya's treats consists of string cheese, freeze dried liver, freeze dried meat, cooked chicken, hot dogs, grain free kibble, grain free treats.

    I've also used zukes salmon treats and sometimes caned salmon or caned sardines.
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • With regard to jerky sourced from China, I personally only buy the CANZ brand because (at least in the NorthEast where I live) it is one of the only jerky's that is neither sourced nor packaged in China.
  • I'll second the primal treats, I'm also a fan of the wellness Pure Rewards treats, very simple ingredients. There is a big debate on feeding grains to your dog, however I really think that Cheerios make some of the best training treats. My dogs love them, they're not terribly heavy, so a handful of Cheerios will go a long way while you are training.
  • if a dog can digest grain cheerios are great. In the last four years, between the 6 dogs that were mine and the fosters who came through, only one could digest grain. All the others had weird poop and goopy green eyes.
    Post edited by JessicaRabbit at 2010-08-10 13:52:33
  • I agree! YMMV with Cheerios!
  • Serkle kSerkle k
    Posts: 974
    Good point about the source. I'll have to double check it when I get home.
  • kuhligkuhlig
    Posts: 57
    We do training with freeze dried beef tripe, cut up turkey hotdogs or cheese. I will sometimes use grain free kibble as well. She doesn't like kibble as much as human yummies.

    Bella does not like vegetables or fruits of any kind =(
  • My Shikoku decides what veggies she likes by what my pit bull likes. Once Ruby eats something, Miko will want it.
  • the other thing about string cheese is I get individually wrapped ones, so they are easy to carry around still in the package til I am ready to open them, and they are soft enough that I can 1) hide a thyroid pill in it for the adult dogs 2) easy for a puppy with baby teeth to swallow (he has to stop what he's doing to eat harder treats). And it's cheap! But any kind of cheese is good....I just don't like to give the dogs my good cheese! :)Lisa and Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akitas) and Leo (Kai Ken)
    From the House of the Fox Dogs blog
    Why it's Not About Dominance
    Bel's thread: the story of a puppy mill Shiba's life
  • ohhhh string cheese great idea.
  • Hmm... Is aged cheese bad for dogs? I thought most cheese was just whey, rennet, and milk (maybe a bit of salt and mold for the blues of course). I find it easier to treat with firm cheeses. Or does string cheese have relatively few additives for processed cheese?

    I guess I'm disinclined to purchase separate cheese just for Violet but I would if the cheese I currently use for her is unhealthy. She currently eats those hard, aged, mountain cheeses, aged gruyere, and sometimes an aged manchego. I also let her have a bit of fresh goat cheese every now and again.

    Just wondering if I should switch to string cheese or if the two of us are fine sharing cheeses.
  • chingalingchingaling
    Posts: 112
    Lots of great suggestions on foods and treats which travel well.

    It was one of my concerns that I'd run out of imagination but the cheese and hot dog ideas sound perfect. Much easier to keep in my pocket than chunks of chicken :)
  • Sukis_MomSukis_Mom
    Posts: 19
    Hi everyone! I was wondering for those of you that feed raw and treat with cheese, how much do you allow to treat while training? One stick/half stick a day or just until the puppy loses interest or just use until you are done training for the day?
    I just started Suki on raw and was using boiled/grilled chicken pieces as treats before.
  • @Sukis_Mom

    I don't use cheese to train, but freeze-dried liver (from etta says). If I do use cheese, no more than 1/2 a slice of american per day.
  • EJHEJH
    Posts: 48
    Cheese is the most premium treat for our Tanuki. We only use it for recall training. As such, we have no problem calling him back into the house after he's out on a potty break.

    All the other treats are used for general training. Many good ideas above :)
  • I feed raw, but I use whatever works for training treats. Some of my dogs like cheese, some find it ok, but it's not a high value treat for any of them. Liver hasn't been highly successful either. I just give them whatever will motivate them. One thing they love (which I'm not thrilled by) is cut up hot dogs. Cheap hotdogs. I discovered this because it was what one of the trainers had at an agility class, and my Kai was ignoring the good treats I had (some liver, some salmon), and going nuts for the hotdogs. They have continued to be very popular in our house. My dogs are also interested in kibble like treats on occasion, perhaps because they don't eat kibble at all, so it is new and exciting.

    Cut the pieces really small, like pea sized, and it should be fine. For an hour class, I'll go through a handful of treats or less, depending on how new the stuff is we're doing.
  • NikkitineNikkitine
    Posts: 776
    My dogs go nuts for those Pill Pockets. Soft and easy to break apart. I used to use vienna sausages/hot dogs but it made them thirsty and my hands oily >.>
    image
  • vmleopardvmleopard
    Posts: 21
    I used treats when they are puppies to lure them into position. Puppies are easily distracted and mouthy. Hence, food/treat driven. Also, I used highly value food as a mean of distraction (not a reward). This is for teaching the leave it/stay command. As they grow older. In my opinion, when they can hold their attention without being too easily distracted I reward them with a good job or a scratch behind the ear or a pat on the head. That's all they get. The only reason I would use treats is if I'm teaching them to use their nose to sniff/find where I hid the treats. Everything else, for example, walking on a leash/walking off a leash is by behavior modification using correctional technique. They value spending time with me more. My 2cent, a dog's favorite toy/pastime is always going to be YOU. You are invaluable to them. They will do more for your attention and time than anything you can throw at them. Like children... can't buy their love. Everyone has their own technique/style. Give them all a try and see what works best for you and your pup. Best of luck mate. And welcome to the community.

    Almost forgot. Side note here. There are 2 types of training product. Tricks and behavioral. Tricks can be done with treats in a reward base system, whatever "treats" mean to you. Play time, food, walks, the sky is the limit. The next is behavioral, undesirable behavior should be redirected or corrected to stop the unwanted behavior. There are plenty of good stuff on the web. This community is also great. There is no best way. Just whatever works for you.
    Post edited by vmleopard at 2015-03-23 22:45:20
  • Actually, there's not reason NOT to continue using treats. It is almost always going to be more rewarding than a pat on the head, and when shaping or capturing new behaviors, you always want something highly motivating to the dog. We may think they should do something just to please us, but most dogs, esp. most nihon ken, do not operate that way. There is no reason at all to not use whatever motivates them--toys, treats, whatever. Eventually, as they get used to the behavior, and you can fade the reward out.

    But especially complex behaviors, like teaching them agility, they need something highly motivating, and treats work well. That's why I had to end up deciding what was the most alluring treat for my Kai, because he wasn't interested in boring things (like cheese) for the parts of the agility course he wasn't interested in (like the jumps).
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8589
    Also, positive reinforcement has been proven (by science, imagine that...) to be more effective at curbing bad behaviour that using "corrections". Please feel free to read up on positive reinforcement and WHY it is so effective at teaching a dog how to interact in a human world (both with tricks and with behaviour).
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • RooneyRooney
    Posts: 143
    Rooney LOVES dehydrated treats, so I make all of his in the food dehydrator. Kind of like homemade jerky without the concerns about where the meat came from or any weird additives. My go to is just buying a roast (usually beef or pork), then cubing and dehydrating it. Cost wise, it's cheaper than commercial treats and I know what he's getting. If you're already paying for meat to feed the dog raw, then it's not really a big change.
    Allison, Rooney's Mom
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I use variety of treats. Saya is raw fed.

    For low value treats I use kibble I rotate the kibble every 5lb bag I change it to another brand or formula. I've tried acana pacifica, orijen 6fish, dr.tim's pork &salmon grain free, and currently using farmina grain free wild herring mini kibble it's same as their normal, but smaller kibble size works nice for small treat.

    So far Saya liked all the brands and formulas. I switch it up each time anyways to have something different.

    For high value treats for recall or training I use dehydrated liver, dehydrated boneless meat either chicken or beef, cooked meat and cheese.

    String cheese is type I use easy to get a tiny piece off. I try to mix it up so it's not always just string cheese.. some days it's string cheese and cooked chicken another string cheese and dehydrated pieces of beef..

    I made dehydrated chicken hearts once and the dogs loved them.

    I did it via oven method.. I plan to get a dehydrator eventually.

    Another high value treat I make is fish fudge.

    This blog post has a recipe on it. I sometimes just do peanut butter instead of canned fish.. dogs liked either versions.

    http://www.myrottendogs.com/2014/07/fishy-fudge-healthy-homemade-fish-dog.html
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)

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