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Housetraining a new puppy in the city?
  • Kuro_KaiKuro_Kai
    Posts: 543
    Yay, my first question!

    I intend to ask my vet this question (soon as we actually choose one). But maybe y'all can give some insight. We live in an apartment in the city. Kai will be 8 weeks when he arrives which means he won't have all his vaccinations. So how do we train a puppy to go outside when its not safe to take him outside to go?

    Given how little care some people around here seem to give their human children I'm highly skeptical of their pet's health. I don't want to risk exposing the little guy to illnesses from other dogs whose owners think vaccinations are for wimpy dogs or are a 'luxury' cost. We can start with Puppy Pads but then I'm worried that by the time he is vaccinated, he'll be too used to going inside and then we'll have to start back at Square -1.
    Post edited by notoriousscrat at 2012-12-12 15:42:48
  • lockshi3lockshi3
    Posts: 628
    We also live in the city. It was tough at first because he thought "going outside" meant right outside the elevator before going down. We then carried him down for a bit and placed him down outside. he would then go and would usually go to that same spot every time after. We tried to keep him in a one block vicinity and kept him away from other dogs, other dog's pee/poop. we would also always clean his paws with a baby wipe (un-perfumated, natural etc). All I can say is you will able to train him to go outside right away (minus the puppy pads), but keep the times outside fun, short, and safe (be vigilant)
  • Your pup should have his first vaccinations, so it will be safe enough to take him outside, as long as you are cautious (as noted above). You can't really wait until he's had all of them to work on this, just like you can't put off socialization until he's fully vaccinated.Lisa and Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akitas) and Leo (Kai Ken)
    From the House of the Fox Dogs blog
    Why it's Not About Dominance
    Bel's thread: the story of a puppy mill Shiba's life
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I took Saya outside to potty at 8 weeks old. I don't live in the city, but cats, coyotes, skunks, raccoons, opossums roam in my backyard so I'm sure they can have as much germs as people's dogs.

    Saya did fine I took her right out back to go potty and she did it right away sometimes she had to walk a bit. The baby wipes sounds like a good idea I never thought of that thankfully Saya made it through.. lol
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • CurriganCurrigan
    Posts: 36
    I'm going through the same thing right now, live in the city around lots of dogs, dont really trust people to take care of their pets health, sooooooo I've come up with this:

    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6138&page=1#Item_0

    Can't tell you how well it's worked because to be honest, we pick up our new pup tomorrow!!
  • Kuro_KaiKuro_Kai
    Posts: 543
    I saw that. Has me pondering (and wondering where my hammer is). I've got an appointment with the vet next week to ask some questions. And possibly will try to sit in on a Puppy Class at Petco Wed night. That's a major question I want answered.

    We're already expecting a slightly harder time housebreaking Kai as there will be a period of about 4 hrs during the week when nobody will be home to take him out. So he will most likely go inside the house accidently. My hope is that if we make a big production out of him going outside he'll try his best to do that and learn to hold it till I get home in the afternoon. But that seems to hinge on being able to walk him outside from the start as well. Been getting mixed responses on whether we can take him out or not within before his final vaccinations.
  • nikiniki
    Posts: 118
    Oooo! Please post what you find out, I've been wondering the same thing myself. Lucky for us, Katsumi Firefox had all her shots by the time we got her (she was a little bit older), but I always wondered what we would've done!
  • I think you'll likely still have mixed responses, because there seems to be a lot of difference of opinion on this. My Akita breeder felt my puppy was safe with the first round of vaccinations, and felt, as I do, that socialization in the critical window of 7-12 weeks was so important that the small risk of danger from not finishing his vaccinations was worth taking. My (old school) vet believes he shouldn't be out until he's done with his vaccinations at 16 weeks.

    My thought is with the breeders. He's protected from his mother's immunity and his first set of vaccinations, and he gets the second this week. If I'm careful with him, he should be ok. But if I don't socialize him (A LOT) before that critical window closes at 12 weeks, I will have a disaster for life. As my breeder said, what I really don't want is an unsocialized adult Akita. And I already have a female Shiba who I got after 16 weeks, who had not been socialized, and I can tell you, it's really, really difficult. She will be a shy and timid dog for the rest of her life.

    There is no way to overemphasize how critical that 7-12 week time period is for puppies. It is literally when their brain is growing and shaping, and if they aren't introduced to a lot of new stimuli (dogs/people/noises etc) in that time, it will be very difficult for them to get used to them later.

    So for me, the small risk is worth it. (It might be useful to take a look at the socialization tips on this forum and the longer ones on the NK side too, where some of this is discussed).Lisa and Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akitas) and Leo (Kai Ken)
    From the House of the Fox Dogs blog
    Why it's Not About Dominance
    Bel's thread: the story of a puppy mill Shiba's life
  • I second Amanda's suggestions about the wipes and shibamistress' point about socialization. We use target's unscented baby wipes and just bought in bulk since we wipe Violet's paws after every walk. We're in Princeton now but after the second round, before the final round of vaccinations, we took Violet to Baltimore, and she ran around downtown Manhattan with no issues. Our vet was familiar with shibas and felt the benefits of socialization outweighed the risks. Before she came home, I scoped out the places I liked to go to and checked whether they would let me come in with Violet. I ran errands with her constantly and did things like go to book shops and wine tastings. It helped her remain adaptable. The socialization checklist is useful. I think from weeks 10-16 (we brought her home at ten) we did about 50 new people and 15 new places a week, every week. The other option is to carry your pup to all these places.
  • pamelapamela
    Posts: 66
    I live in the city and my puppy came from a breeder who lived in a very rural area. The first time I took him outside and he heard all the noise he froze. Within a week he's getting used to the trains, the traffic and all the people (we're still working on dogs). Housebreaking was the first thing I wanted to work on, since before I brought home Termi he was able to just walk out into the backyard and now he has to be on a leash with tons of distractions. So we started with a small area outside of our condo and we just expand the area each time we go out. We also have a dog run in my building so we were able to alternate between the dog run and the neighborhood. I also keep a puppy pee pad at the front door so that he knows to go towards the front door when he has to potty. Best of luck!!Pam, Garrett, Termi & Shelby
  • TortieTortie
    Posts: 197
    I'm completely with shibamistress on this one. The 7-12 week socialization period is crucial.

    I got Emi a couple of days shy of 8 weeks (just worked out that way with the breeder's and my schedule). First day, she came to me with her starter shots and I took her to the vet for her first set with me. The second day I had her, I took her on an all-day excursion that included a barbecue, strolling in the city, and more with a LOT of people (and a couple of dogs). From then on, I've been taking her everywhere with me, exposing her to sights and sounds that I believe has helped shaped how confident she is in different situations.

    From time to time I'll actually get comments on how well-behaved she is. Just yesterday, I went to a car show (loud antique cars, newer ones revving their engines, and LOTS of people). She's unaffected by the noises and sights because I've been bringing her to car meets since her first week with me.

    I believe that you'll have a more well-rounded dog if you bring them out to explore the world at 8 weeks. Of course, there are precautions I would take; like not allowing them to sniff poop from other animals. The other thing that I'm really weird about is having a puppy meet other puppies (that are between 8 and 16 weeks old). I figure that most older dogs (older than 16 weeks that is) have their shots and have an immunity to handle whathaveyou. Because the younger dogs are at risk, I wouldn't want to have my puppy (again, younger than 16 weeks) meet another that may be compromised.

    I do understand that there are risks, but really is there anything in life without a risk? I'm firm behind my idea that early socialization is the key to a well adjusted dog. Plus, I think it's extra bonding time for puppy and human. My $.02.

    EDIT: I also wanted to add that I think it's a lot easier to potty train a dog to go outside if you bring them outside form the moment that you have them. I think pad-training them inside until they are done with their vaccinations will just confuse them into thinking that it is okay for them to go inside (if you'll eventually not want them to).
    image
    Post edited by Tortie at 2010-08-28 14:50:09
  • Kuro_KaiKuro_Kai
    Posts: 543
    Well Kai got out a bit today. My girlfriend carried him into the local pet shop while we picked up a collar that fit. He did get to meet his first toddler, a not quite face to face with the clerk's dogs & cats and the couple people that noticed the bundle of fur in my gf's arms.

    I don't think I'm gonna allow him to walk about town. But if my girlfriend is up to the walking / carrying, we can trek around town and let him get some ear scratches from anyone that wants to
  • lockshi3lockshi3
    Posts: 628
    We also had Jake get used to all types of transportation methods the first moment we got him like trains, ferries, cars. Now he's perfectly fine with all 3.

    We also got him at 9 weeks on a Saturday. That Tuesday, we took him to his first puppy play group. You want to make sure you start the socialization process early and IMO the safest way is with other pups. Hold off on other adult dogs on the street until a week after his second round.
    Post edited by lockshi3 at 2010-08-28 16:36:17
  • Ok, new question about housetraining. Kai has gotten the idea about telling us he needs to go. We hang his leash on the door knob and when he needs to go, he'll both scratch at the door and jump up to pull the leash down. Pulling the leash down means "I GOTTA GO NOW!!!". Great! Now the question is how do we get him to go when we want him to go?

    He can completely ignore the schedule we have him on. And I know he can hold it a lot longer than when he's demanding to go out. If I have him in his crate, he's good for about 4 - 5 hours. But when we have him out of the crate, because we're both home, he'll go anywhere from 2 hours to barely a half hour since his previous walk. Controlling his access to water doesn't do anything. I know one time he hadn't had any water for a couple hours and he still left a good size puddle outside both times.
  • DjinnDjinn
    Posts: 161
    Currigan's "porch grass" is a great solution. I live in a 9 floor apartment building full of dogs. If I let Hayate set a single paw anywhere in the vicinity of the building I guarantee he'd be stepping where another dog had peed or pooed recently. He's happily tray trained, meets lots of people inside the apartment and when I've carried him outside to get to the vet (strictly not contacting the ground) he's been completely fine with cars and noise. I'd rather wait an extra few weeks for him to play with other dogs than risk his life.http://sopheliajapan.blogspot.com
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    This is an old thread, but I wanted to comment that I've been doing as much research as possible into the risk of taking a pup out (@11wks) before their full (2nd/3rd) vaccinations (for socialization and potty training). My Vet recommended against it -- my trainer thought its ok if I carry her to a concrete area that looks clean.

    It sounds some some survey of vets say risk of non-social, non-potty trained dogs is worse than the risk of parvo. Thats comforting, but I imagine the researchers are looking at it statistically that 1 in 1000 pups will die of parvo vs 75% of pups that will die if abandoned due to bad behavior...

    My pup simply doesn't wanna poo indoors and I have no yard, so I am rolling the dice. So far it is much easier to manage! Odd thing is she has no problem pee'ing indoors. Whats up w that ?? lol
  • LilikoiLilikoi
    Posts: 1115
    Shibas are funny little particular things. xD my 5 month old usually won't poop anywhere near our yard. Has to be at a park or on a walk. His normal spot is at the bank we walk past, so we refer to it as him making a deposit.... :P
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    Friends I could use some advice -- I've only had my baby girl for 2 weeks now, but I find potty training to be a challenge and am thinking I just need to stick with it, but here's the situation:

    If I follow a strict schedule, in crate - out regularly to poo/pee then I can control her poo/pee and has a good record of success.

    However, it is tricky during playtime, as I can only play w/ her outside her crate after a recent poo+pee, and even then she sometimes slips out another pee/poo. Hence if she hasn't done both, I don't let her out at all (which is sad limiting her playtime/roaming time).

    Once she has her next shots it'll be easier to let her play outside on a leash, but is this normal? The extended play area is limited to my den/study, but she hasn't yet figured out its not for poo/pee.. now she will never poo in her crate, but she isn't making the mental connection of in-crate vs in-house vs outside. Any tips?

    Thoughts?
  • imBLASIANimBLASIAN
    Posts: 412
    @Dougfoo - Your pup may not see the den outside of the crate as her "home". I know there are a couple of tricks out there, but the one that jumps to mind is moving the crate or expen to the area you play with her in the den, and/or feeding her there. Apparently pups are only "safe" for like 20 minutes after theyve used the restroom. You read the Dunbar training method right?
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    @imBLASIAN
    Yea I like Dunbar's guide, its my 2nd bible along w/ this site.

    I'll try moving the crate. I also just started feeding in den thing. Lets see how it goes. I usually play immediately after pee+poo, but again it means she has very limited time to play which is kind of sad. But do we agree its best to not let her make mistakes at the cost of play/roaming time?




  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1255
    No I disagree. A puppy needs to be out and about to play and explore and bond with you. Not sit locked up in a cage.
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    @Juni she is not vaccinated so can't play outside yet. So you suggest let her play and pee poop mistakes? I read that each mistakes in the house is a setback hence being careful. I can hold her and play with her on my lap or arms just can't let her walk without accidents outside a few short times a day.
  • LilikoiLilikoi
    Posts: 1115
    When my pup was little, I would play outside of the crate with him and just take him out the second he started sniffing or losing/changing interest. As soon as he started to shift from one activity to the other, I would take him out. After eating, waking up, playing... I literally took him out every 20 minutes for a while lol. Then lengthened it to every hour. I also sometimes would just keep his leash on if he didn't go when outside and I knew I'd need to watch him like a hawk and be prepared to take him out again very soon. The constant potty breaks could be the most annoying part of puppyhood. xD but it really does pay off to take trips frequently. I would use the crate / pen when I couldn't completely devote my full attention to my pup. If I was cleaning up or taking a shower, he'd be in the crate or pen. But I dedicated most of my time to focusing on him completely and played with him outside of his crate. It really helped him associate the whole area as his new home.
    Post edited by Lilikoi at 2016-04-27 01:42:56
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8456
    @dougfoo - Simple solution. Take your puppy out to potty more often.

    Your pup needs mental stimulation and exercise. If you live in a high dog traffic area, it may not be safe to let him wander around outside for stimulation and exercise. So you will need to compensate and play with him inside. Just take him out for potty breaks more often and you will not have to worry about keeping him crated or accidents.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • imBLASIANimBLASIAN
    Posts: 412
    @Dougfoo - We did what exactly @Lilikoi did. Fortunately, puppies tire easily and so its not like we had to play 24/7. Generally, it was:
    1) Take out of crate, go potty
    2) play, go potty (to work up an appetite)
    3) food by hand or work on tricks, go potty
    4) play, go potty
    5) back in the crate
    I would say this took roughly an hour, and then she would sleep for a while. Sometimes we wouldn't even make it through the whole routine and she would try to go hide under a couch or table to catch a little nap.
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    Thanks, I'll report back soon!

    I am trying to take her out more often as suggested (though with my schedule it varies from every 2-4hrs), and a similar plan like yours (play, watch, play, etc -- i dont have a yard so i take her back to her potty pad during playtime).

    I know everyone says ditch the potty pad, but in an apt with slightly inconsistent hours I don't see how. I guess I could have her potty in the shower or balcony - is that better?

    Anyways I will stay with the consistent program.

    (Note I had a shocker, ran the vaccuum carefully for the first time and she freaked out and wetted and poo'd herself instantly). lol
  • imBLASIANimBLASIAN
    Posts: 412
    I think I mentioned this before, but I have a condo as well and so we had to go down and out every single time, which made the potty trips longer. We did try to do a patch of grass on our deck, but she wants to choose her own spot so it was just easier to take her to outside. Good luck!
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    Its been few more weeks, my gal is @13wks, I think we're doing better -- wanted to update the folks on overall progress (i should probably post a life story..)..

    (My setup is high rise condo, crate+pen + pee pad, i have her in the study so i let her roam there after potty for an hour supervised).

    So far..
    - Her potty mistakes are less, but still frequent. She pees ~6 times a day, maybe every other day 1 small mistake like pee in den or pee in pen, or in crate.
    - Poo's 3x a day mistakes haven't happened in a while now (2wks)
    - Nipping is soft but frequent, bit harder and viciously during excited playtime
    - Bites/tugs her leash alot which is annoying
    - Frequently lies down during longer walks (tired i guess lol)
    - Bit soft on stool, maybe I am changing food too much (went from eukanub to iams to orijen in 4 weeks)

    Otherwise lovely puppy, i'm learning alot! I hope I can get her fully potty trained soon -- its alot more fun letting her roam around freely!

  • NikkitineNikkitine
    Posts: 776
    @dougfoo

    Is there a reason why you are still using pee pads vs just taking her outside? 13 weeks is old enough where she can go outside. Each potty mistake that happens is only a step back and isn't properly training her to not go indoors. There are problems if she's even going in her crate which is rare for a clean dog like a Shiba. It's obvious that the pee pads aren't helping. Take her outside properly. What are these inconsistent hours you're talking about where you're unable to take her? She also shouldn't be roaming around freely if she's still having mistakes. I'd recommend tethering her to you with a leash so you can always watch her.
    image
    Post edited by Nikkitine at 2016-05-09 12:34:42
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    @Nikkitine - i can't take her out that quickly in my apt so during playtime I walk her to the pee pad every so often (every 10min) in case she needs to pee.

    I take her every 2-3hrs during weekends. Work days, from 830am-6pm, it can be just once or twice (say just @1pm - which means she has 4hrs at a time alone hence I do want to indoor pee pad train her in parallel) + morning and several times in eve (like 6pm, 9pm, 1130pm). She usually holds till we are outside for pee'ing (90% time).

    I suppose this is a bit of a side topic like "how to train a shiba when you have a job and live in an apt in the city" - i know its not ideal to use pads, etc - but kind of a practical discussion and advice sought (we could have another thread on "why you shouldn't get a puppy if you don't have time and resources").

  • LilikoiLilikoi
    Posts: 1115
    I think plenty of people have raised shiba puppies with jobs and in the city, and I personally wouldn't let the inconvenience of going outside get in the way. I would still opt to take the long trek down halls / stairs / elevators to get to a patch of grass multiple times an hour if necessary, especially on days off / weekends. I don't think potty pads are necessary (or useful) in any scenario, and I think they encourage bad habits to form. Just my opinion, but I would never find any reason justifiable to use them as an alternative to just going outside. And I think the risk of an untrained / unsocialized dog is greater than the risk of disease in the outdoors. I could've decided that when I got my pup in January, it was far too cold to take him outside to potty in the snow. It was in the negatives for weeks straight (that's in Fahrenheit so well below freezing) and it took my so long to put on coats, gloves, boots, etc just to take my puppy out like every 20 minutes. But I still think putting in the effort is well worth it and a much better option than pee pads. I can count the number of accidents my pup has had indoors on one hand. Hopefully I'm not coming across as insulting, I just want to point out that it takes dedication no matter your situation, and it pays off to stay consistent and to embrace the challenges of training a puppy.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3493
    @Lilikoi

    Well said. I definitely agree and don't want to repeat the same thing Lilikoi said but if you spend the time now, it will work out in the end.

    My Shiba tore up the pee pass the first day she came home with me, and I took her message loud and clear. I raised my moms shih tzu mix at the same time with pee pads and regretted it because she got it confused with carpet. And pee pads basically taught her it was ok to go in the house. Since I've moved into my own house, I slowly eliminated the pee pads and now she is fully house trained.

    Not trying to pick a fight but, my friend works full time, lives in the city and has a kid to juggle while walking her two corgis... Anything is possible if you invest the time and effort.
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    Sorry folks keep misunderstanding what I'm saying.
    I am totally focused on her peeing outside 100%. I'm saying its not possible at all times for many like me because:

    1) I'm not home all day or every 2hr, and in 3-4hrs she may need to pee (she seems to hold it for 3-4hr but if its 4h+ she will pee on her pad).
    2) During supervised playtimes inside, if she suddenly needs to pee, I can't get her outside that quickly and I dont think I can take her out downstairs every 20min but I see what you're saying and will try.

    I am spending the time -- I take her out in the wind, rain, whatever. I come home lunchtime everyday or work at home alot and spend every weekend hour w/ her, but even then I think many folks need a situation where they need to leave a pee-pad in a x-pen for longer than the pup can hold her pee.

    Sorry but I disagree there is a situation/scenario where potty pads are necessary.

    Post edited by dougfoo at 2016-05-09 22:54:53
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8456
    @dougfoo - Your puppy is 3 months old right? She should be able to hold it for 4+ hours easily by now. Most likely the reason she is unable to is because she does not HAVE to. Part of potty training is teaching them to have bladder control and hold their urine until they have an opportunity to potty in an appropriate place.

    Again, with a 12-13 week old puppy, she should be able to hold her bladder during play time, but will need to go immediately after. The reason she is having to go in the middle, is most likely because she has not learned bladder control.

    If you have to leave the pup for more than 4 hours at a time, hire a dog walker or pet sitter. By using the training pads and not properly potty training her, you are setting her up for failure as an adult. I have seen too many situations of "pad" trained adult dogs not being able to hold their bladder for more than a couple of hours at a time. This results in frustrated owners, and unfortunately quite often, dogs in shelters. (Not saying that will be your situation, but it happens way more often than you think.)
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    She needs to be playing and running back around more. At 13 weeks, she has had enough vaccines to be outside. She would benefit immensely from spending 1-2 days at a dog daycare/playcare. It is not natural or healthy for a puppy to be inside so much during the day/alone even if you can come home during lunch. That's still a lot of alone time. What I do with puppies where they have to urgently go is pick them up, hold a towel underneath them, and make haste to the outdoors. That's better than a pee pad. Ditch those.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • I could use some advice as well. My guy Raiden is 9 weeks old and still a bit too scared of the big city to go comfortably on the concrete next to us. I'm carrying him around every few hours in a tote bag to get him used to the sights and sounds.

    Even just in the apartment though he seems to hold it forever. This morning he peed at around 8AM and already at 3PM he hasn't gone since. I've been keeping a sharp eye on him and he'll sniff around like he needs to go, but won't start peeing. The handful of times he has gone it's been ALOT.

    I just got him 2 days ago, so he's still very fresh. I was only able to correct him once so far and moved him to the pee pad, and the next time he decided to use it himself and I praised him effusively.

    I'm thinking I'll get him comfortable on the pee pads for the rest of the week, and then start taking them away and trying to get him to go outside with a pee pad down. Any recommendations on how to get him peeing outside and get him comfortable going more often?
    Post edited by notacollege at 2016-06-13 14:55:53
  • imBLASIANimBLASIAN
    Posts: 412
    Hi @notacollege - I think the first thing everyone is going to say/ask is why don't you train your pup directly on grass? I actually tried to use a real grass sod patch to train my pup at first, but only had real success when I took her actually outside in the grass. If you read back through this thread, you'll see that most people were able to get the best results when taking the pup to grass instead of trying to teach the pup to use a pee pad and then grass (it confuses them).
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    maybe no grass? the thread is big city training and perhaps some haven't been to a city like Tokyo but there is almost no grass outside of specific parks. NY is similar and so is London.. my area has some grass that is marked do no enter. lol. nearest viable grass is about a mile away.

    btw 2 days in your pup is maybe scared.. behavior is likely to change after she relaxes
    Post edited by dougfoo at 2016-06-14 02:29:23
  • Indeed no grass. I am really worried as he held it for nearly 24 hours. I don't think I have a choice because he simply won't go until it's too much. He drinks plenty and I run him around when I know he has a full bladder. Overall he's very comfortable with me, but I think he's scared to go around me because it's just been pretty unpleasant each time. I shouted the first time, and times after that tried taking him downstairs as soon as he squats but he keeps going, and we both end up covered in pee and frustrated.

    I think I almost have to use the pee pads to get him comfortable around me and then I can maybe move the pads outside with him once he knows what the word "potty" means.
    Post edited by notacollege at 2016-06-14 08:55:12
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8456
    @notacollege - The trick to house training a dog is to not leave it until they HAVE to go. The key is a consistent schedule. Take him outside (seriously, ditch the pads, it will only confuse the dog and make house breaking harder in the long run) every couple of hours, after every play session, after eating, and right when waking up from a nap. If you are in a pet friendly apartment, there will be somewhere for the dog to potty. Even in the most dense city centers, there is some grass or mulch around.

    Just be mindful of diseases (carry him around, wipe his paws off, etc.).

    Shibas are notoriously clean dogs and they dislike soiling where they live. However, if you force them to do so from an early age, it trains them that it is okay. Transitioning to just pottying outside becomes difficult, especially since they never learn bladder control as they grow up.

    If he is nervous about the surrounding noises, you will need to find a quieter area for him to potty in. In addition, socialization is going to be extremely important with this puppy, as I am guessing he was not socialized prior to you picking him up. Most properly socialized nine week old puppies are extremely curious and not too fazed by city noises.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    >>Even in the most dense city centers, there is some grass or mulch around. <<<br />
    No offense as you are moderator, but you really need to visit some ultra dense centers to understand there is no grass. There are some bushes but I swear for hi-rise apt zones they dont plant grass. This is the "raising puppy in city topic", so I find it interesting we can keep refuting the need for pee-pads and continue to suggest finding grass that doesn't exist...

    @notacollege -- by the time she squats its too late, I know how you feel. But its only been 2-3 days, give it some time, patientce & realize she doesn't know what to do, be calm. Best advice I had was to be consistent & suck it up and take her outside every chance (2hrs,3hrs, soon as u get home, etc), even though its a pain in a city apt. Get him (and you) used to the pee trips even if nothing happens - consistency pays. After a few months (which seems long compared to all the genius dogs u read about here), my baby seems to have gotten it! (And I used pee-pads despite all the negative feedback on the forum (u can read above). Now its become her 2nd bed and maybe emergency spot).

    Again I think for urban, suburban, and country dwellers the "ditch pee pads" makes sense, but they worked ok for my lifestyle and transition has been long but OK. Note I'm a noob w/ my first puppy, so I can't really compare to the expertise here, but I think situations differ. (Note Richell makes great pee pads & cages, is Japanese, and I think most city Japanese owners use pee pads from all the puppy owners I've met in Tokyo. Note Shiba are Japanese dogs). Perhaps I am doing dis-service long term.. but sorry just my opinion as a noob. Should I try it again.. maybe I'll do it differently w/o pads.. but I only have one life to live.
    Post edited by dougfoo at 2016-06-14 11:22:40
  • imBLASIANimBLASIAN
    Posts: 412
    @notacollege - I live in Seattle so everyone is crazy about nature and we still have a lot of green spaces left. Since your city doesn't, I ditto Sunyata's suggestion on taking your pup out on a regular schedule. Puppies can only hold their potty the number of months plus or minus an hour, so 2 months old can only hold 1-3 hours, 3 months old can hold 2-4 hours, etc. So on schedule, take your pup out, and then SHOWER with treats if he goes in a good spot, walk for a few more minutes (per Dunbar so the pup doesn't think potty = end of walk) and then go inside. I also ditto, be careful of disease and make sure you wipe off your pup's feet. Also be careful of anything you may track inside if you also wear shoes in your house.
  • I'd love to train him outside to start with but he simply won't do it. He held it for 8 hours, 24 hours, 6 hours, 3 hours, 6 hours, 8 hours. I would love if he peed as often as he is supposed to.

    For whatever reason he doesn't do it regularly, and as soon as I take him out on the street he just waits until we go back in. Hard to out wait a dog that has a freakish bladder.

    @Sunyata - socialization is just fine. He was freaking out the first day but is fine with Manhattan now.
  • imBLASIANimBLASIAN
    Posts: 412
    When you take him outside, does he get a little exercise or do you go to the spot and just stand there? Sometimes it takes time for them to realize they need to go.
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    for a 10 wk holding 8hr pee is that possible? are u sure he isn't sneaking pee out? do u feed water via a bowl free or at given hours?

    maybe try a vet.. no pee 12-24hr must be dangerous.

    just make sure next time she pees at all its not traumatic for him.. maybe regardless where u will have to first encourage to pee then correct location?
    Post edited by dougfoo at 2016-06-15 23:10:40
  • So I was able to get him to go potty outside, I finally just decided to walk him on the concrete and he took to it immediately and peed just down the block. Before I was putting him on a pad on the concrete to try to avoid any diseases. He was so averse to going in the house that he was holding his bladder for ridiculous amounts of time. Thanks all for the advice.
  • dougfoodougfoo
    Posts: 41
    cool but wow pad on concrete?? lol must look funny, at 9 wks y do have to be careful of pee and poo on your walk.. when my pup was pre vax I carried her to a clean concrete area and paced her a small area.. she did pretty well!

    or u can take him to the same spot but I would be careful of walks at that age... dogs find the poo/pee faster than you do during a walk
  • I have an interesting experience here, so I'll share what I've seen so far -- perhaps pieces of this will work for someone...

    I live in a condo in Seattle -- close enough to call it downtown. There is a nice park a few blocks from our home but nothing in between except the planted areas of dirt and trees along the sidewalks. (Not sure what those areas are called!) We brought Sachi home at 9wks old and here's what our set-up was:

    1~ I spent about $30 on materials and built a 2'x4' box (perfect of one piece of sod!) to put on our deck for her to use as her "toilet." I filled it with sand and laid the sod. (She took to this almost immediately, but it became problematic -- which I'll get to in a minute...)
    2~ Access to the deck is through a sliding glass door so I got doggy-door "insert" (search doggy door at Home Depot) that fits into the slider (now, closing the glass door against the insert) so Sachi could access the deck.
    3~ We butted the door of her crate right up against the doggy-door. So, when she leaves her crate, she's on the deck and, with the slider closed, there is no where else to go and she would always pee on the grass. (We take her out to poo.) One AMAZING benefit of this setup is that we don't have to get up at night to take her out (very nice!!) and we can leave her like this when we leave the house without her.

    ** As I mentioned, she took to this right away but...
    Two problems: (1) She also wanted to play on the grass -- and eat it. (2) With 3 bags, 180lbs, of pee-saturated sand, the deck became more uncomfortable than most honeybuckets I've been in. So, I bailed on the grass and tried the "Piddle Place Indoor/Outdoor Potty." The change set us back a little bit, but Sachi caught on. (When she would pee in the house, we would soak up the pee in a paper towel and put it under the green mat on the Piddle Place so she would smell it there.)

    Of course, we didn't want to live the next 12~18yrs with her crate butted up against the deck and we want her to be able to roam the house freely. So, we gradually started moving the crate further away from the slider. This did confuse her initially and we had a couple days of her peeing in the house if we missed the mark on getting her outside in time. Every time that happened, we'd (CALMLY) take her out to the deck toilet and have that one-sided conversation about where to pee. Then, seemingly in an instant, it all clicked for her. Within just 2 or 3 days (and virtually without us even realizing it!), she was using the doggy-door to get the the deck and pee in the right spot.

    She's at 14wks now and does that all the time to pee. (She'll bark at us and run over to the door when she needs to poo...) If anyone has a similar set up, something like this might work!
    Post edited by EmpressSachi at 2016-10-08 00:04:49

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