Thanks for the welcome. I've been interested in Japanese breeds for years now after an encounter with a true Akita and Shiba, and both are tied for my top favorite breed. Though I'm only 19, I've had numerous jobs pet sitting for dogs in the neighborhood and even worked at my local vet's. Shibas were few and far between, but the few times I helped care for them at the vet's boarding kennels, I was totally in love with their little quirky personalities. Now, my focus is learning about them and raising them firsthand, as I will be changing my school major to follow the path of an animal behaviorist, and will (later in life) be breeding dogs on a small scale when I move to a dojo in Japan with some friends.
Serkle K directed me towards shiba meetups at Meetup.com (I will be able to talk to owners directly in my area) and I'm currently researching the breeders listed in the directory at shibas.org.
I have also considered adoption and my other trip will be to my nearest animal shelters for a look to see if there are any Shibas who need a good home :)

Hey Shard,

I was looking over the breeders page. A few things raise a red flag to me. She does not say that she does any type of obediance, confirmation or other types of showing or work with the Shibas, where health and temperment are priority. Her health garuntee is ver very vague, and doesn't mention trying to filter out known hereditary(sp?) issues in shibas like knees, hips, and eye issues. And the garuntee is limited to only one year, and many health issues can/will show up within the first 3 years.

She mentions that she will take in and adopt out some Shibas, but you also want a breeder that is heavily involved in the betterment of the breed, not just the dogs she has in her possession. Rescuing is also another great means of getting a dog, but in any case the thorough research and first hand expierences you can get as much as possible will strongly benifit you in the long run.

I would strongly recommend you start at the NSCA directory and if anything contact these breeders about history, breed generalizations, and also importance of these health concerns. One of the breeders on the NSCA directory is in PA, and she has a wealth of knowledge, and would be able to point you into the direction of other breeders in and around PA as well.

You can never learn too much or enough, especially when it comes to these amazing breeds.

Hey there! I've been doing some Shiba breeder research and found (what seems to be) a good breeder in PA. I've had some correspondence with them, they seem very nice, and seem to have good ethics! They do hip, knee, and eye certification, as well. Might be worth a look! They're really nice and have replied promptly to my email, so you could probably email them if you have any questions. Good luck on your search!

Rodel Shibas: http://shibas.net/

Rodel is an excellent breeder.
Diane, sadly your positive experience seems to be more isolated. If you search on this forum alone you will find that Icewind is not held in high regard here. I have a personal policy of not saying anything about breeders whose practices I don't condone. But like I said, there are quite a few threads dedicated to that breeder in particular and no kind words.

I'll second Jess's comment about Rodel - they are mos def a great breeder.

Rodel is as good as they get. I know them well and have dogs out one of their studs.

Phil

Haha I met a Shiba named Toby at Sakura Sunday (Philly Sakura fest) this past weekend...was that your boy? I may or may not have been going around asking people about their Shibas and had the chance to meet a few, since there were quite a lot...my boyfriend was betting on which ones I was going to steal/yoink from their owners.
Suzanne does seem like a very nice person and I'd love to go check the place out and see, but I'm definitely on the fence. I work at a pet store and the pups are all ACA registered, and in the 15 years Tom, the owner, has run the store, none of the pups from the breeders he deals with have had any problems (he keeps in contact with the new "parents"). Obviously the breeders aren't superb with a bunch of breeding show dogs that have 100% guaranteed health backgrounds, etc. but they're all well socialized when they come to the store, . That doesn't mean it can't happen, though, and I'm definitely cautious of any potential problems that may pop up.

Like I said, I don't recommend the breeder. I never have. I realize that I went there and had numerous red flags that I was blinded by with puppies. Do not get sucked into it like I did. If you go to see her farm, she will probably show you puppies and you will forget anything you came there to ask about, I kid you not. But extending welcoming, open arms only goes so far. She breeds dogs to breed dogs, and that is it. And while showing/canine sports aren't required -- they do show that a person is putting forth that little extra effort with their animals to further their rep/have fun with their dogs and gain titles. She also breeds Goldens and Yorkies, last time I was there.

... wait a minute. Did you say you work at a pet store and the owner's name is Tom? I live right down the road from a Tom's Pets in Audubon/Trooper area, my dad is friends with the owner. Though i'm sure there's a million people named Tom who could own a pet store, I just thought that was hilarious.

if you are interested in a rescue check out tri-state shiba rescue. They are in ohio if that is not too far for you.

I'd be really careful of a dog that was ACA registered, given that is so often what puppy mills do, and I really believe people should not support puppy mills. I saw a breeder of Akitas recently who said they were "not a kennel" but simply sold Akitas....but of course they have way too many litters available, and offered mostly ACA registration. No way.

I would also note that while I can't find it now, at one time Icewind was offering cross bred puppies--Shiba inu and Miniature pinschers. Which just infuriates me.

It's worth it to find the right breeder and the right, healthy dog, from an ethical breeder, and wait for the dog, if necessary. In the long run, it is better for you, for the dog, and for the breed.

@sjp: ohio's a long drive from me, however if I can't stir up much at local shelters, I'll probably start considering Shiba rescues in and/or close to PA, and hope for the best. I'm currently in contact with some people who have retired show/breeding dogs who are 4-6 years of age and active, healthy, and need a home soon--maybe I can help there, too.
@shimaurashibalover: i'm drooling just looking at rodel's website. the dogs are in such great condition and the pedigrees...these guys are rockstars. katsu's little miss superstar herself! saw a bit of your katsuspam thread and she's such a cutie!
@shibamistress: ugh, I know what you mean-when I was narrowing down my breeders i found a lot of those. and a lot of local listings for dogs from obvious puppy mills (sadly that's all that seems to be nearby). happily the dogs weve been getting at the pet store are from small-scale breeders of the "designer" hybrids and some purebreds and those only seem to have one to three litters a year. he's always grumbling about not being able to find good breeders or having to go on a search...
in regards to the MinShis at IceWind (?) i also saw a picture of that on their site when i last checked it out...odd mix.
i think i might definitely keep my eye on Rodels and wait it out. if I happen to rescue/adopt a Shiba in the meantime, then i'll just go with the flow and make sure he or she (previous to adoption) would be a good match for me. i'm also shooting off an e-mail to them to see if they have/know of any adoptable adults.

thanks, everyone :)

I don't know nearly enough about Icewinds to know, but what I would say is they are not breeding ethically, but are breeding for profit, which is not what serious and ethical breeders do. MinShis? That is just wrong. And they were expensive, too.

Shard-The Shihpoo you just described actually sounds like it may be suffering from a neurological disorder. The behavior you described is not healthy behavior at all.

The question with regard to demand is this. Just because people want it is it ethical to produce it? I.E. people wanting tiny non-dog-like dogs. There certainly are plenty of people that want heroin or other opiates. Just because people want it, IMO doesn't make it okay to provide it. Furthermore the term designer breed it putting a silk tag on a sows ear. If you walk into the point and see a shih tzu poodle mix it is a mutt. You walk into a pet shop and you are buying a "designer dog".

The other thing to keep in mind is that you can always check the OFA website (offa.org) yourself. Any serious ethical breeder will have their dogs tested regularly, and have all of them tested if they have stayed with them for at least two years (even if that dog ultimately gets placed as a companion dog and will not be bred, the breeder would want to know that all the pups from that particular breeding were free of issues). You can look it up easily as long as you know the kennel name. You'll want to check that all the dogs under their kennel name who are of age have been checked. You'll also want to check that the certification dates for all the dogs in their breeding program are recent since they should probably be checking again at least every other year, and ideally more frequently. Checking the OFA website for health certifications is also a good way to vet the breeder before scheduling a visit, in my opinion. Certainly if you are a breeder who is actually checking your dogs, the records will be there (in other words, don't necessarily take someone's word that they check their dogs without some
verification). Any ethical breeder should be able to provide you with copies of the certification that hips, eyes, and patellas of the sire and dam are ok (I mean the certification not just vet records. As someone else posted a few months ago, they got a copy of "vet" records for their new puppy but were unable to track down the actual vet office or any contact info for the vet--not a good sign). I don't mean to be so cynical, but a lot of places put
at least minimal effort into seeming ethical and a little checking will usually show if they are really as concerned with their dogs and their health as they say they are, or if they would rather just make a sale to someone who is trying to do the right thing. All the niceness in the world, and cleanliness of their facility mean little if they're not also checking the dogs they are breeding for issues that can seriously impact the quality of life for their puppies.

To remain on topic, I have met the people at rodel, their dogs, and our puppy is sired by one of their dogs, so I may be biased, but I think that they are wonderful. If you are serious about finding a breeder, you should try to attend a few shows (conformation, agility, etc.) and talk a bit to the people there. it's a good way to start feeling people out and meet their dogs(after they've been in the ring of course). If you are already in touch with any breeders, you may ask them if they are attending any shows in the near future and see if it would be ok to meet them there too.

Good news, everyone! A shelter close to me has a Shiba who is in need of a home. She is 10 months old and arrived at the shelter 3 days ago. I'm going to go check her out within this week, so I'll update with more info on her!!!

It turns out this week I won't have work until Thursday due to some switching around of schedules, so I went out about two hours ago to meet Jayley the Shiba Inu. I got all the info I could on her. She has a clean bill of health, is housebroken, quiet, and when the bf and I walked up to the stall she was in, she immediately jumped up off of her bed and began giving kisses, pressing up against the chainlink for pets, and lightly nibbling our fingers. She is a purebred Shiba Inu, red sesame, from her looks the very definition of a true Shiba. I did forget to ask if the owner turned in any papers with her but I will call and ask soon.

Her previous owner had turned her in because she had become food aggressive and they did not want to deal with it. She also guards her toys and bed closely from other dogs. This didn't concern me much, as my dog has all of 1 place he ever wants to sleep in (and will sleep there all day), and he hates chewtoys because his teeth have worsened with age/his gums are sensitive. Food aggression is easily dealt with, all I need is time! Which I have a ton of until some sort of second job comes through, and all are pet-friendly.

The woman working at the desk did not know what a Shiba was. She likened the breed to a "Chinese pit bull" and told me that she might not take kindly to other dogs--EVER, and my boyfriend and I thought this was funny, since socialization and training can solve those problems. She seemed completely fine with two large Pit mixes snarling and barking across the way, and when dogs went past she didn't react at all. So I'm not sure about the dog aggression thing, but we only had a short time with her. She's so sweet and cute. I have two pictures of her, might link you to them in the next post!

Here's to hoping they pick my name off of the list of applicants! :) I'm taking my family to meet her this weekend, and I want to talk to a couple of employees about her too.

If you are considering adopting her it might be good to have a behavior person on hand to evaluate her once she is out of the shelter environment and take it from there. The behaviors described are not necessarily cut and dry and should be handled appropriately. You may want to ask Leslie McDevitt on the list below if she knows of anyone close by who would be willing to help do that. Who knows it may not be of issue but it is good to have someone help you with the eval in any case so you have a head start on the right course of action for this particular animal.

http://www.trulydogfriendly.com/blog/?page_id=4

Snf

We also got our Ginger from Lally's but it was in 2009... wish I had known about this forum before we went there! Although, we wouldn't have ended up with Ginger then.. hmm.. Luckily no health problems with Ginger although she is super timid around strangers, which we are always working on.

I assume Ginger is two years old now? Have you noticed anything cropping up since she turned two?

Do you know who her dam and sire were?

I have just spent hours researching the 5 generations before Roxy and there is nothing but inbreeding all over the place. And I just read a yahoo list group that talked about the puppy mills in Highland Hills and Sorenson Long Lake and some of the dogs in Roxy's pedigree are from there. There are a lot of "name brand" breeders listed, but the dogs in her map from those breeders are not consequential. They are probably the rejects from litters at the name brand breeder kennel. It is really sad.

If anyone wants to be shocked or have a good laugh, I can post the photos that the breeder sent me of Roxy's dam and sire. Neither dog should have been bred and the photos are ridiculous.

I am very glad she is in good health. The reason I asked is that at age 2, Roxy became more aggressive and very protective of our home. Part of the aggression can be linked to being attacked by off leash dogs.

But the point is she started changing mentally right around 26-28 months old. A few months ago we found she was hypothyroid. Prior to that she had some seizure episodes..focal seizures. Once she had a full blown one and we heard her fall down the stairs and found her splayed out in the kitchen. That only happened once about a year ago. She is afraid if I turn on the oven (electric)....dog neurologist says she might be able to hear some electrical frequency or something. Now we try to cook in the toaster oven as much as possible because she cannot stand it....tail down, pacing, panting, hiding into any remote corner of the house. It is awful.

Due to all of this, I switched her to a raw diet only. Hopefully that will help her stay a little healthier than her bad gene pool would otherwise allow. I doubt her mental issues can be helped.

BTW....Roxy has an AKC# as does every relative from Lally's and the progeny beyond. I don't think it means anything at all. It is almost akin to having a phone number, everyone has one...even if you live in a bad neighborhood.

I did contact Lally's a couple of years ago about the oven problem. I asked if any of the dogs had such horrendous phobias. Of course she was "shocked" and said there is nothing like that to report. She was extremely nice and friendly and I remarked about Roxy's size and her weird tail that does not match the rest of her body and she wanted me to send a photo. That is when I asked for a photo of the dam and sire of Roxy. Those pictures are ridiculous and unprofessional for a breeder. Roxy's supposed mom was cream and dad was black and tan but not the normal kind. His AKC description is Black / Tan /White, but his photo looks like a red shiba with a black body suit. Weird. I have never seen a shiba that looks like that.

I showed those dam and sire photos to another shiba breeder and she said white or cream is not an acceptable color for the Shiba or the black/brown Shiba male. A reputable Shiba breeder would not breed with those two examples of Shiba’s. The male didn't look purebred to her. She said it happens that sometimes Shiba’s have white or cream puppies but then they have to be sold under a spay/neuter contract.

I'll post a picture next of those parent dogs.....I do think the dad looks like a Shiba, just a really bad coat. He is kind of cute! But still......

Hmm I have a feeling she has the same response with everyone, the we never have any problems with our shibas! I better there are many more out there. Those definitely do not look like professional photos that the breeder should have on file. What color is Roxy? It doesn't look like the dad has a curly tail either, very strange.