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Pre-Made Raw??
  • Hey All, I was wondering what your thoughts were on pre-made raw?
    I bought Max Steve's Real food...Has anyone had any experience with it? Also I'm feeding him Orijen right now, is it a bad idea to mix his raw with Orijen kibble?
  • Steves is a nice company. I also like Primal, and Natures variety.

    However you do not want to mix raw and kibble. They need to be fed at different times. Their rate of digestion is very different.

    I personally stopped feeding kibble and have no intention of ever coming back to kibble. But if you are going to do both kibble and RAW, feed the kibble in the morning meal, and then RAW at the evening meal. But never at the same time.
  • Thanks for your help...I think I'm gonna try like you and completely get rid of kibble and put max on a strict raw diet.
  • Hi all,
    Dakota has competely lost her appetite, often going a day or more without eating. I have tried everything... I can't say how much I've spent on all sorts of "interesting" wet food to mix with her Fromm Salmon kibble. I finally went into a pet store and somebody suggested that I try Nature's Variety Raw. I put out 3 medallions and she ate them right up. So, this is fine, however.... I feel like a total novice at raw feeding and feel like I have to do tons of research. Question: can I offer her Nature's Balance as a "complete" raw diet or would I have to substitute something else to round out her diet? Also, I've read a variety of opinions regarding feeding kibble AND raw. Some say absolutely don't mix the two and others say you can -- as this thread suggests kibble in the am and raw in the evening? Could I mix the raw medallions with a good, grain-free canned food? Is this "kosher"? I just want her to start eating again -- and nothing but raw has tweaked her. thanks, all.
  • Nature's Variety is meant to be a full raw diet. They are formulated to meet AAFCO standards and they're even going to the trouble of putting them through AAFCO trials because they're trying to legitimize raw for vets.

    A number of people here do feed raw and kibble.
  • kumaDUDEkumaDUDE
    Posts: 1259
    Natures variety is good, just make sure you break up the medallions a bit, Kuma used to chew his medallions, until he realized he can swallow it whole hahahaha

    Kuma eats kibbles for bfast and medallions for dinner
    Post edited by kumaDUDE at 2012-09-23 19:40:02
  • Thanks... How about mixing in a bit of canned food once in awhile.. Any issues?
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    I can mix kibble, raw, canned, or cooked with all my dogs (the Shiba is a bit touchy but generally does fine) with no issues. I do it all the time.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I feed her pre made frozen solves the swallowing the nugget whole.

    Some dogs might do fine some might not..

    Maybe do it little by little see how your dog does with it?

    Or get your dog used to raw then introduce caned food with it?

    Saya gets home cooked dog treats, cooked chicken heart, kibble for training treats and I don't space it away from her raw meal, but she been raw fed for while so used to the variety.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
    Post edited by Saya at 2012-09-23 20:35:57
  • MsTotMsTot
    Posts: 30
    We are trying The Honest Kitchen's dehydrated food. It's human grade food, dehydrated and then you put the water into the bowl with the right amount for your dog and mix. After 5 minutes it's ready to go. Our senior pretty much stopped eating his kibble because it hurt his mouth (he has some worn down teeth) and I doubt it tasted great, but he loves this stuff. From our research, it's the best if you don't want to do a full raw (we'd like to, but just can't right now).
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    I feed Bootz kibble morning raw at night. I've mixed kibble, pre-made raw and canned food. She does just fine. Next step is to include full raw!
  • glitchglitch
    Posts: 189
    I'm wanting to slowly integrate raw food into Kazu's diet. So I would like to feed kibble in the day, raw at night. I have tried searching through the raw threads in this forum but have had difficulty finding what increments of kibble/raw is good if you're combining. Does anyone have a direct link or any suggestions? The only things I can really find are how much raw to feed your dog per day if you're completely going raw.

    @Bootz what increments are you feeding your dog? and what raw parts or type of animal do you tend to feed her in the evening?

    Thanks!
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    I give Sagan a cup of Nature's Variety Salmon kibble + two medallions of Nature's Variety Raw every morning, and another two for his dinner. He's never had any issues and he absolutely loves his food (I take it because he does this funny little howl after he finishes it and runs around for a little bit). Basically, I do what @kumaDUDE does.

    After the kibble runs out, I'm planning on just going pure raw.
    image
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
  • YukikoYukiko
    Posts: 452
    I remember reading on another thread (can't remember where now) that it's better to feed raw in the am and kibble in the pm? Something about moisture and rate of digestion and maybe how usually there's more of a gap from dinner to breakfast than from breakfast to dinner? But I may be totally off track, maybe someone who knows can chime in?
  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    I second Yukiko's question. I've been incorporating raw green tripe as well as other raw mixtures into Sansa's diet, and I'd like to know if it's better to feed raw in the morning or afternoon. I've been giving her raw in the mornings with kibble for dinner. Any input?
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @Glitch, i'm feeding pre-made raw right now...pre-made is a full meal smushed into a patty you buy at the stores...I just give Bootz half the amount of kibble in the morning and half the amount of pre-made at night. Pretty basic. I didn't start feeding FULL raw yet but i'm going to incorporate chicken wings/breast once I find some on sale.

    @Yukiko and Artic,
    I remember reading that too.....I think raw takes like 5 hrs to digest whereas kibble can take 10+ hours. But honestly if you're dog is fine with AM kibble and PM raw why not just stick to it?

    ADD: I think I remember somebody also saying if you feed grainfree kibble it should be fine with raw.
    Post edited by Bootz at 2012-09-24 13:58:44
  • @Rikka 1 cup + 4 medallions...Isn't 1 cup of kibble an entire daily serving? It is for blue buffalo for my shiba's weight. I just don't want little fatties. It is so hard to get them to loose weight.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @ShibaLove,

    It depends on your shibas age/weight and also the brand of kibble you feed your dog. The amount varies. For Bootz she's suppose to get about 1.5 cups ~ 2 cups a day. But I only feed her 3/4 kibble in the morning and half a pre-made patty at night.
  • kumaDUDEkumaDUDE
    Posts: 1259
    I feed Kuma 1/3cup of kibbles and 3medallions
  • lucylulucylu
    Posts: 500
    Lucy gets 1/4 cup of acana in the morning and 2.5 medallions of natures variety at night.
  • I feed my dog premade raw for lunch and kibble for dinner but I only started feeding the Primal recently. She poops on schedule right after each meal. I noticed that the comments in this thread have people saying they feed raw for dinner and kibble lunch. Should I switch and feed in this order?
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @melzskeez, if she poops on schedule with raw for lunch and kibble for dinner :) just stick with it!

  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    @ShibaLove According to my kibble bag, I'm supposed to be feeding him close to 2 cups a day because of how much he weighs and his age. He's 15lbs at 4-months-old right now. The medallions also require him to eat 8-12 a day because of his age. So, no, I don't think I'm overfeeding him -- I'm probably underfeeding him just a tad. His father was 30lbs as an adult, so I think he'll be a bit bigger than what the "normal" is, but I agree, I do not like overweight dogs. Not to mention I'm a fairly active person, so he's always out and about. ;)

    Here's a full body picture of him I took a week ago:

    image
    image
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
    Post edited by Rikka at 2012-09-24 22:42:36
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I don't feed kibble or pre made only did it for when she was boarding..

    She got 6 nuggets a day for her..

    For a raw feed pup on prey model they usually suggest 10% of puppy's weight or 2% of pup's projected adult weight. so pups do get bit more as they're young then less as they level out..

    Saya was switched at 8months so I didn't had to feed that much, but she did eat a bit more then what she currently eats..

    Now she gets 6oz day or sometimes 10oz or 12oz for big meal or 3oz for small meal.

    I need check Bella's kibble to see what amount Saya eat on kibble I forgot what she ate.. hehe

    She seems fluctuate on how much she wants eat on certain times of the year she wants eat more or less.

    Long as the pup doesn't get chunky one can always decrease or increase if dog gains or looses weight..
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • @Rikka He looks good and healthy. I just feed my adults 1 cup (a tad under really) of kibble as the bag recommends for their weight. Also my guys are not active and burning it all off either.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Adults don't need as much as pups.

    Saya seems self regulate well.. I can put a 4lb lamb leg roast on her feeding towel and she will just eat 4oz of it or sometimes 7oz.. if I'm not in same room when she eats her roast she had enough she will push the towel's blanket over the food. lol

    She did that with kibble cover with a towel or something nearby.

    When you feed pre made do you feed it frozen or thawed?

    I have to feed it frozen as the thawed ones are gulpable.. She had thawed one first time I gave her pre made she swallowed the nugget whole and regurgitated it to re chew. After that she chewed the other nuggets fine.

    I learned lesson to feed them frozen. If I had to do pre made again I'd thaw it and just combine the three nuggets so she'd get one ground ball..

    I got few nuggets left I need give it to Bella and Saya so I'll be done with pre made..
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @Saya I feed mine thawed but i have to chop it up into pieces for Bootz to eat. She doesn't gulp but she does eat it at a nice pace to enjoy the meal! I might try giving her in one piece to see what she does o_o but she has a habit of putting stuff on the floor to work at it....versus eating out of the bowl.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Yeah Saya not much for eating in the bowl she eats on her towel or outside. hehe
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    Wow 14 pounds at 4 months! Sansa is 4 months and juuuust at 11 pounds, but she's a bit on the small side.
  • kumaDUDEkumaDUDE
    Posts: 1259
    @saya and @bootz I had given Kuma a frozen medallion once, he was so smart about it... Licked it twice, then tried swallowing it whole, lets just say it was a complete fail on his part :p
    From that day forward, I had to break his food apart, I even have to hold his raw chicken drumstick to make sure he doesn't try to swallow the whole thing! Dang dog lol
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @kumaDUDE....LOL! Bootz only swallows things she knows is soft and will be perfectly fine for her. As for hard stuff like bones...bullysticks...she never tries to swallow whole. She Always chews it up into pieces first.
    Post edited by Bootz at 2012-09-25 12:56:15
  • Can anyone tell me if the pre-made raw like Nature's Variety has the same teeth cleaning effects as feeding "real" raw like chicken backs, bones, organs, etc. I know each medallion contains meat, bones and organs. So, am assuming that there must be an abrasive quality to the medallions from the ground bone and wondered if it might be enough to clean their teeth?
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @DianaBoston,

    No. The pre-mades are basically like burger patties and doesn't have the cleaning qualities as feeding real raw does. The companies always advise to feed RMB along with the pre-made to maintain healthy teeth.
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    I wanted to bump this thread and get some new current input on pre-made raw options.

    I love feeding raw to my dogs as I feel I have better control, but there are days that the convenience and time to feed raw can be difficult, so I am looking for maybe a few pre-made raw options to also use within their diet.

    In addition, I do worry that my dogs get picky at times and don't always eat the items offered throwing off what I am aiming for over the long range 80/10/5/5 balance (for example both boys decided this morning not to eat the liver that was part of their meal) but ate the pork stomach and beef parts. So I worry/wonder if they will get the full nutritional balance I want them too if they continue to be picky about certain organs or meats on a regular basis. I can't logic with them like kids ... please eat your liver and you can have dessert.

    So I am also thinking supplementing with a pre-made raw that is nutritionally balanced for times that I need the convenience may not be a bad thing and will add to the nutritional balance also.

    I recently bought from a pet store Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Rabbit (because rabbit at the meat market is real expensive too and didn't know if my boys would take to rabbit -- they loved the patties I offered the other day though). I also can get at our local BJ's something called Fresh Pet Select, but I get the impression this is slightly cooked and not necessarily raw.

    My raw goal has been about $2/lb, which means about $5/day for the boys or about $150/month. For the most part I have been able to achieve this even with wasting some of the bigger bones (like the pork shoulder bone they chew but don't eat). Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Rabbit would be way above this average at almost $12/day as I would have to use 3 patties/day, so it just is not economically feasible for more than a occasional special meal. The Fresh Pet Select seemed much more reasonably priced within what I could afford.

    So I am looking for feedback from anyone using pre-made raw right now as to which brands they use, how often they use it, and how economical the choices are.

    Thanks everyone in advance for any input you have on pre-made raw options.
  • RhondabeeRhondabee
    Posts: 175
    Sorry for the very late reply, but I just noticed this thread. I have 3 shibas and feed pre-made raw. Due to the expense, I feed kibble (rotate brands/meat type, mostly Taste of the Wild & Fromm) and then feed the raw 4 days a week for their evening meal. They all weigh between 25 & 30 pounds, so I feed them 1/2 a patty each. I have purchased Nature's Variety chicken and beef, but currently am mostly purchasing Primal chicken and beef varieties, the 6lb package. I think they cost around $25 to $30 per package. Each package lasts me 2 weeks. I couldn't afford to feed only raw or even 1 package per week, so this is my compromise. The dogs love it, and my elder 15 year old really enjoys it and it is a good way to make sure he is eating. He doesn't always want to eat the kibble.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @Rhondabee, research full raw and try to feed that instead of pre-made raw.
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    I don't feed premade raw, but a lot of the folks in my raw feeding coop do and buy a lot from Oma's Pride, Hare Today, Jake and Blues, and Texas Tripe. I'm not sure where you are located, but most of these companies have websites and you can have them delivered to you.
  • DrySeDrySe
    Posts: 101
    I have been feeding my guys stuff from darwins. They ship to me once a month. I buy Natural Selections, everything but bison. Rotate every 2lbs. If you buy in bulk there are discounts. A little bit pricier than $2 lb but it is convenient. Tsuki is not fond of duck but he will eat it after watching Plue eat a 1/2 lb of it :).
    -----------------ZooLogics Natural Selections
    Your Choice of Meals 2-lb bag 2-lb bag
    Chicken & Vegetable $2.75/lb $3.45/lb
    Duck & Vegetable $3.05/lb $3.80/lb
    Turkey & Vegetable $3.20/lb $3.95/lb
    Beef & Vegetable $3.60/lb $4.50/lb
    Bison & Vegetable - $6.95/lb


    http://www.darwinspet.com/darwins-raw-dog-food/
    Post edited by DrySe at 2013-10-07 13:18:42
  • AnkimoAnkimo
    Posts: 7
    Bumping.

    I recently started Kimo on Primal - turkey & sardine nuggets. According to the calculator on the website, I'm suppose to feed him 11 nuggets a day?? That seems like a lot!

    He is 4 months old and 15 pounds...a bit on the big side it seems. He had been free feeding on kibble which is what the breeder told us to do. They had him on Royal Canine but he is transitioning to TOTW Pacific puppy. He is doing well on the TOTW mixed in with a little of his old food.

    I would like to give him Primal in the morning and Kibble at night. How much of the Primal should I be feeding him? If it suggests 11 nuggets a day for a full Primal diet, do I feed him half of that (6 nuggets)? It seems like a lot...but I have no experience with this?

    Also, can I mix the Primal with the kibble??
  • NahatalieNahatalie
    Posts: 363
    Oo glad this has come up. Sorry I can only add questions! The only readily available pre-made raw I can find in the UK (I'm sure I can order whatever online) is Natures Menu. I was actually going to buy some today but my local pet superstore doesn't stock the puppy varieties! I had a look on the pack anyway and for the weight bracket he'll be in as an adult it recommends 18-30 nuggets! I thinks there's probably less than 30 in a bag as it is! Seems so much and would probably be really expensive; they didn't have the price on the freezer!

    So basically same question...do you really have to feed that much? It seems a lot!
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1104
    @Ankimo and @Nahatalie, you can try comparing the calorie content of the raw to what you were feeding as kibble. But yes, pre-made is relatively expensive. And freeze-dried is more so. But you pay for the convenience and packaging. At least until you get the courage to make it yourself! ;)

    A lot of people alternate a meal with raw and a meal with kibble, to save money and still get some benefits from raw feeding.

    Good luck!
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    I feed kibble, pre-made and full raw meals.

    Sometimes I feed kibble in the morning and raw at night. If I'm running low on raw, I would feed a meal of kibble topped with SOME raw.

    To answer your question... IT depends on your shiba. Some shibas can't handle raw mix with kibble, and generally people don't recommend it, but I do it just fine for my shiba. No tummy upset or soft stools.

    As far as how many nuggets to feed? Again it depends on your shiba.... Their activity level, current weight, age... Etc. I feed my shiba half of the recommended serving and this was something I arrived at based on trial and error.

    My friends shiba at age 2 with a normal activity level eats 4 nuggets per meal. As zandrame stated, premade is expensive. :)

    Remember, the formulas to calculate how much to feed your dog are guidelines, you should adjust it as needed. But remember puppies and nursing moms eat more than regular adults
  • AnkimoAnkimo
    Posts: 7
    Thanks everyone! I will go by trial and error.

    I'm curious to hear some experiences with the different brands of pre-made raw. Right now Kimo is on Primal. I also saw Nature's Variety, Tuckers, Stella & Chewy's. Is it okay to rotate the brands and flavors?
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @Ankimo

    Personally, I rotate between Flavors and brand just fine. Usually with raw,
    people suggest to change cold turkey, once again this does not work for ALL dogs.

    I feed Stella & Chewys. My dogs love it. Primal it's ok, but then again anything is better than kibble for my girls. Haha.
  • So I wanna consider raw but I have some questions:

    It said above to feed raw meaty bones with raw patties for teeth cleaning. How long does a full raw meal take to eat? How long does it just the RMB take to eat with a patty?

    I understand it is messy. I do not have a yard (I live in a one br apt. Banjo usually eats in the kitchen.

    I would imagine when your dog is being fed elsewhere (lets say a friends house on an overnight visit you are taking together), many prior arrangements need to be made?

    Can I get approved RMB at the pet store?

    I know there are better options than kibble, but I am not sure they are practical for my life situation. I looked at the RAW thread and I can say with confidence I do not have the time nor inclanation (in my best Jack Nicholson voice) to go shopping for dog food as often as full raw feeders do (and I say that with the utmost respect. Your dedication is commendable).

  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 2779
    @BanjoTheBetaDog Did you check out this mega raw thread?
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/9663/raw-thread/p1

    Sticking to this topic, pre-made raw brands typically grind the bones into their formulas. Many brands do offer recreational bones, like Primal. But those are a different category from the raw meaty bones and are not usually to be regarded as a meal.

    How long to eat depends on the dog, depends on the type of RMB. My Bowdu is a FAST eater, and will consume the same meal about 3 ~ 5x faster than my other dog. So that means anywhere from a minute to, say, three minutes. But that could mean 10 or 15 minutes for my other dog, when she's gnawing on a raw turkey neck...

    If you're really concerned about messiness and time, pre-made raw is a great way to dip into raw territory. If you can stick it in a bowl, as you can with pre-made raw, it doesn't have to be messy at all.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • I started going through that thread and it is both helpful and heavy reading. My apologies for the redundancy on the forum =)

    I am really concerned about health. The more I read the Raw thread, the more I realize I am probably not cut out for that much attention to detail. If the premade raw is healthier than even the best kibble, it's probably what I'll go with.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @Banjothebetadog

    It's definitely more expensive. At least 3-4x? Based on my previous calculations. But, from your posts =P money isn't an issue when it comes to your shibas health.

    I do kibble morning and premade/regular raw at night to keep the costs low. Plus kibble helps keep the teeth clean. If you are going full pre-made raw id suggest some recreational bones to clean their teeth.
  • @Bootz

    I am doing the research now on cost etc. His health is priceless to me. I can cut out a lot of my useless endeavors for his well being; I mean, I REALLY don't NEED a new set of golf clubs every year. I can probably do with a set for a few years at least.

    I am looking at Primal's website now and I want to go with their frozen feeds since some, but not all formulas include ground bone (the pronto does not). I am going to be cross referencing this against the raw thread as I read that one. I

    Since I should try all formulas as protein variety is good (per raw thread), should I consider the days I feed the formula with ground bone as a "bone in" meal?

    He will be getting the recreational bones too. Also from primal every other dy for teeth cleaning.

    I am excited for the switch but not rushing it since he has plenty of kibble.



  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I'd start with the grinds with bone in it at first and if you do boneless ones do it once the dog is used to raw.

    I feed boneless and organs fine without bone, but she been one raw for long time. When saya was new she got bone in meals more often.

    Each dog is different some get used to it faster, but still going slow is good.

    You can give the boneless grinds when you do the RMb.. I'd start with bone in chicken at first unless your dog has sensitivity to chicken then can start with lamb, pork or whatever.

    Bone in items I only give is bone in chicken, turkey, pork ribs, lamb ribs, pork shoulder roast, some times lamb neck, lamb shank, or leg of lamb. coarse lamb is pricey so only get those when store has good sale.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)

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