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Neutering Question
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2722
    Ok so Im going to schedule an appointment with the new vet to do Ninja's neutering.  He said he usually does not use the disolving stiches, just so when they come back in 2 weeks he can check out the wound and make sure it healed ok.  But with Ninja's anxiety situation, he said he would probably use the disolving stiches.  Have any of you ever had your vet use disolving stiches and how exactly does it work?  He said he would use the disolving stiches because if Ninja comes back to get the stiches out, it might scare him a lot and he doesn't want to risk storing a bad experience with him.  But he said I should bring him in 10-14 days after the surgery so he can just take a look at the wound and make sure everything is good.

  • Piglet was spayed 2 weeks ago.



    Spaying is FAR more invasive than neutering. She has dissolving stitches. She is doing awesome.



    They typically dissolve at 4 weeks. Assuming you follow the doctors care instructions, and there are no complications, it really is just one less thing for your dog to endure.



    Your doctor makes a good point since Ninja is so skittish. One less thing for him to endure, especially around his genitals is not a bad idea.



     

  • hondruhondru
    Posts: 529
    Tojo had dissolving stitches and it took a really long time for them to dissolve, but they did and that was that.  I didn't touch them or anything and was told that unless the area became red and swollen, to just leave it alone.  It took quite a while for Tojo's to heal, but it was also quite invasive.  He was a cryptorchid (one testicle hadn't descended) and they didn't know the location of the undescended testicle, so they actually had to look for it, which required a much larger incision than would normally be required.  It was basically like being neutered and spayed at the same time, since he had two incisions and one was quite large.  
    -Heidi, with Rakka (shikoku) and Sosuke (kai ken)
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 735
    How old were your dogs when you got them neutered/spayed?
  • hondruhondru
    Posts: 529
    Tojo was about 7 months old. I wish I had waited longer, though.  
    -Heidi, with Rakka (shikoku) and Sosuke (kai ken)
    Post edited by hondru at 2008-01-22 02:19:32
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2722
    Wow 4 weeks to dissolve? So does that mean you have to keep them from licking that area for 4 weeks? Or just for 2 weeks and then you can take the cone off and let them be their normal selves again?

    Rina - I got Portia spayed when she was 6 months and Ninja will be about 6 months when I neuter him as well. All the vets i've talked to always suggest neutering males between 6-8 months. Just so they don't develop any bad habits. IE: marking territory, lifting leg, aggression, etc.

  • My vet said 10-14 days with the cone. Neutering is really responsible especially if you have different breeds of dogs to avoid mixing. If you don't plan on breeding, which unless you are doing ALOT of work and research like Brad and Jen it isn't a good idea, neutering is smart.



    Most vets say 6-8 months. A lot of owners say a year. I say split the difference. 9-10 months seems reasonable. 


  • I2-14 months is when I'd recommend spaying and/or neutering for canines.



    "Bad habits" are the responsiblity of the owner (pack leader) to prevent/correct, better sooner then later. I'd just be concerned about proper growth. Spaying or neutering your dog does not make your dog less aggressive, if your dog is aggressive you need to seek a professional to help you fix the issue before it escalates. If your dog has "issues", it does not make them go away (pending on the issue at hand), unless it is some kind of infection that can be fixed by this procedure.



    I agree with Jessica, if you don't plan on breeding, it is advised that you spay or neuter your dogs.

    - Corina A. Gonzalez | Lynxiene (Belgian Malinois), Shoushuu, Kotomi & Shuran (Shikoku Ken). | Along with a Clan of cats!
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2722
    I talked to 3 vets about the growth of the dog after neutering and all of them said its like an urban legend.  People have been known to spay/neuter a puppy at 8 weeks and the puppy turned out fine as an adult.  They don't advise to do the procedure at that young of age, but it has been done with no complications.  I was asking because I got Portia spayed at 6 months and I thought that might have been the reason why she turned out so small.  But they assured me that neutering/spaying does not stunt the growth of a dog.   I don't know if it's true or not...but thats what i've been told.
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    Posts: 3433


    While I agree that you should wait until about a year to neuter a dog, so that proper pysical maturation can happen, un-altered dogs (male and female, but especially male), tend to be more aggressive.  Or are more likely to be responsible for a bite/attack.  There could be a correlation between bad owners having unaltered dogs, but a lot of male dogs calm down greatly after being neutered, they don't have those hormons raging so wildly inside of them.



    "Reproductive status of dog (intact vs. altered)-



    As with the sex of the dog, it was not possible to determine the reproductive status of all the dogs involved in fatal attacks dating back to 1965, but an examination of the dogs involved in fatal attacks from 2000 to 2007, reveal that the overwhelming majority of the dogs involved were unaltered. During this eight-year period, 93% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks were unaltered (not spayed or neutered)."



     



    Taken from:



    http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/studies.asp

  • okironokiron
    Posts: 735
    I personally don't like neutering till about 9 months to a year. I do believe you stun some growth and development if you take away the necessary hormones. My grandma and her friends doesn't believe in altering a dog so every shiba I've encountered so far were unaltered males and females. They were never together throughout their 13 years of living except on walks and we never had an oops litter. Now I'm not saying I'm going to do the same thing, my shiba will be neutered when he gets close to his first birthday but in my opinion, unaltered shibas aren't that hard to handle if you know how to handle them. I grandma sure did.

  • This link has been posted several times throughout the forums, but it's a great article. So for those who have not already read it:

    http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

    - Corina A. Gonzalez | Lynxiene (Belgian Malinois), Shoushuu, Kotomi & Shuran (Shikoku Ken). | Along with a Clan of cats!

  • Romi - Kiba also got neutered 2 weeks ago (at 4 months). He had the regular stitches...the dr. had the stitches done internally, so you don't actually see them...but i wish we got the dissolvable kind...like jessica said, it's one less thing you and Ninja have to deal with. Our dr. actually said he had to leave the stitches in for 1 month! i thought it was 2 weeks, but i was wrong :( Anyway...Kiba was really weird the first few days...running around trying to lick the wound, wimpering and acting depressed...but after about a week, he was back to his normal self. And we stopped using any preventative collar about 2 days ago, and the wound is healed. Oh...and i recommend the inflatable collar, if Ninja can't get to the wound (Kiba could reach the wound with 3 different types of collars!). It seems the most comfortable and least annoying for the dog. You can get it at any petco: http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?familyid=100555



    Or you can try the Bite-Not collar - it's like a neck brace but seems more restrictive and squishes the fur around the dog's face: http://www.bitenot.com/



    With regard to neutering and growth, most vets we talked to said it was just a theory that neutering at a younger age stunts the growth. But recently i read an article that testosterone actually assists in telling the body when to stop growing, so in some cases, dogs are actually larger than normal if they are neutered (ex . My old dog Cookie was a 100lb dalmation and neutered young!). Shinobi was neutered at 4 months when he was adopted from the SPCA and he had no growth or health issues...as were my other dogs (now passed). We neuetered kiba young b/c we wanted to make sure that he didn't get too agressive with Shinobi as he got older. Shinobi can be kind of grumpy with other dogs and we are now leaving the 2 alone together uncrated. Drew and I have noticed that neutering at an earlier age possibly curbs humping - but that' s just an observation. I guess it just comes down to personal preference and it's hard to say for certain exactly how some things affect a dog. They are all so different.

    Post edited by shandrew at 2008-01-23 16:31:52
  • Ok, now I'm going to try to move redcattoo's post from this thread to a more recent one on the same topic, so if you don't see it here, it means I've done it correctly! Redcattoo, I was moving it because it seemed more useful to have all such articles in one more recent thread. Thanks!

    This is where I moved it: http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/11439/scientific-journal-articles-about-spaying#Item_33
    Post edited by shibamistress at 2013-02-16 16:45:04
  • I hope you don't mind, but I have to ask a question again. (Did ask on another more recent thread but it got shut down before I had a chance to be responded to :()

    Anyway, Oki is 4 months old. Only one testicle has decesnded so far. How likely is it that the second will eventually decend? And if it doesn't, I know the surgery is much more invasive and wondered if anyone had any experience of how long it took for the shiba to recover? We will probably get him done at 7.5 months just because it happens to be a convienient time as I've got a week off then. Could get it done before in the holiday before that but we're really busy (including the dog!) so best if we wait. Might give it more time to drop?!
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8414
    @Nahatalie - This has been discussed a few times on the forum before. Here are a couple of threads to get you started on your reading:
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/6528
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/10376#Item_16
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • Check out the other threads, too, but as a quick answer, it probably won't descend. And while the surgery is supposedly more invasive (depending on where the undescended one is located), it took my vet about 1 more minute to do the surgery, meaning the whole thing took about 10 minutes. I noticed no difference in the recovery time from a regular neuter. But I believe there is more info. in the other threads.
  • Ok thanks. Silly little Oki...
  • ZenkiZenki
    Posts: 347
    gonna play god for a bit and resurrect this thread... ;))

    Zenki's neuter day is tomorrow (poor guy) and i just have a couple of questions:
    1.) Never thought about dissolving stitches or non dissolving coz i thought everyone uses dissolving ones now. is this something i have to ask my vet about?
    2.) How long am i supposed to keep zenki on the e-collar? 2 weeks? sooner? will i be able to tell by looking at the surgery site if it's ok to remove the e-collar?
    3.) i've read somewhere it's better to keep the dog in a crate or limit to a small room. How small is a small room? i live in a 1 br apartment. is this still too big post-surgery?
    4.) any of you guys have some tips to alleviate discomfort that i should look out for?
    5.) i'm assuming pain meds are pills taken orally like an advil or something. Are there also ointments available that can be applied to the surgery area to help speed up the recovery process?
    6.) am i supposed to physically restrain Zenki if he gets the zoomies?

    Thanks and wish my little boy good luck! :D

    P.S. all those past posts about undescended testicles, i'm surprised no one made new year's eve jokes about waiting for the ball to drop. i guess i'm just immature. =))
    Untitled
    Black, Tan and Awesome
    Instagram: @ShibaZenki

    “Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful.”
    – Ann Landers

    Post edited by Zenki at 2017-09-07 22:29:09
  • LilikoiLilikoi
    Posts: 1073
    1 - Ozzy got glue. Haha I didn't think to ask either. He had fancy laser surgery (which isn't so necessary for boy doggos but I had a free upgrade at my vet), so his was very minimal.

    2 - I think I kept Ozzy's on for about a week and a half. Possibly close to 2 weeks. Some dogs don't even need them, just if they are interested in the site of surgery. Ozzy is a nosy little thing, so he would not leave it alone. As he healed, I would take it off when we were just lying around and in potty walkabouts. But would put it on if he got curious.

    3 - I mostly let Ozzy hang out in the apartment. At night, he stayed in his ex pen that attaches to his crate, so he has more space but was still safely confined.

    4 - umm.. some dogs prefer wearing like a shirt instead of an e collar. Ozzy hated wearing a shirt. I tried it. But he actually prefers the cone to most harnesses lol.

    5 - yeah, Ozzy had pain pills that I would cover in some peanut butter or into a small bit of hot dog to make sure he ate it. Idk about topical stuff...

    6 - especially at the beginning, I would not let zoomies happen haha. But he'll probably also not feel so full of zest in the beginning. I was extra cautious and wanted everything to heal ok, so I lifted him up and down from the couch and car, never let him jump, and calmed him down if he ever got too hyper (but that never really happened). I would distract with a bully stick or some treat / puzzle toy for mental stimulation to get his energy out instead of physical movement. I know it's an easy surgery for boys but I'm still cautious and would rather be safe.

    Good luck to Zenki!! Time for me to get off my phone since anatomy class is starting lol.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3482
    @Zenki

    I don't think vets give you a choice, but I may be wrong. Both my girls got spayed and had dissolving stitches.

    I tried the cone and they did not like it. I even introduce it to them a week or so prior to the surgery and no luck. I actually kept it off since I had an eye on them the whole time. And reinforce with verbal cues if they even start thinking about licking their stitches.

    First 24 hour they will be drugged out and sleeping. Going to the bathroom caused them pain/discomfort.

    Best way to alleviate the pain/discomfort was cuddling time and petting them to let them know it'll be ok.

    Prevent zoomies with treats and distractions
  • AnjyilAnjyil
    Posts: 664
    1) Ours had two--inner dissolvable and outer stitches. We didn't ask, so I think it is up to the vet.

    2) We kept Coal in the E-collar until the stitches were removed. He is not able to leave those kinds of things alone. Feeding time, walks, potties--it was necessary. I am surprised it worked, though, because our E-collar wasn't the right sized for his Shiba-head and neck.

    3) Yes, it is better to limit movement. For most of the time, Coal was pretty subdued. The walk home was exciting, but after that, he was very not-zoomie. When Coal isn't feeling well, he tends to "mope" haha. Mostly, you have to gauge the dog and just check on the stitches a couple of times a day. Boys aren't nearly as strict as girls, or so I have read and heard from my vet--but that may be how he stitched it up. He told us just a couple of days and then it would be fine to let him run around.

    4) Coal... is not a typical shiba. He showed NO signs of discomfort or pain at all . He was just his happy-go-lucky self, for the most part.

    5) I don't think ointments are necessary.

    6) If you can stop Zenki from zoomies, then go for it. We had no luck with Coal when he actually got them lol.

    Each dog is different, so just keep an eye on yours. You should be able to get an idea of what is necessary. Ask your vet what kind of stitches he used and his recommendation for how long to keep your pet calm, as well as some of these other questions (ointments, etc). that is probably the best way. As for discomfort---well, since our dog showed none, it wasn't really necessary to do anything super special with him. We just let him go at his own pace and it worked out well.
  • spacedogsspacedogs
    Posts: 344
    1 - Rhys was glued

    2 - We used an inflatable donut, which Rhyz was fine with once he got over how silly he looked. It's like a built in pillow, I think sometimes he actually misses it. Kept it on until the Vet said it could come off .. for Rhyz I think that was around 10 days ims.

    3 - Yeah limit movement, mostly to keep them from stretching the incision - no galloping up/down stairs or leaping on to couches/beds. RE: 6 - especially no running/zoomies!

    4 - Rhyz had no discomfort, he was on a low dose of Meloxicam for a few days and then right as rain. You'll notice, though, that it won't look like he's been fixed for the first few days due to swelling, if anything his balls will look bigger than ever lol

    5 - We were advised to avoid topicals unless there was a LOT of swelling, and then use ice if he would allow it, but nothing else as it may irritate the incision and inhibit healing

    6 - see #3!



  • @ Zenki
    Pascal got neutered on the 5th of September at 5 months old.

    1) Pascal had regular stitches, the incision was tiny (about half a centimetre) They didn’t bother him much at all and they were taken out 10 days later by the same vet. Took them a minute to take them out and he was right as rain throughout the whole process.

    2) While pascal did not have an e-collar I would highly recommend keeping one on them. While checking visibly how well he is healing you may not be able to gauge internal healing from inspection alone. I’d say a week minimum to really ensure he can’t get at them, as even licking can cause infection. If he can still reach I’d suggest bittering gel (however be careful as some dogs like the taste, Pascal certainly did!)

    3) We live in a two bedroom house but limited Pascal’s recovery area to just the living room, 3x4 rectangle that included the couch, tv, his bed, food and water and toys. Any time he was out of the area (to go pee outside etc) he was on lead to not get too far from us. This really helped with supervision.

    4) We didn’t have much of a problem with this so sadly I can’t give any advice – Pascal was eating and back to himself the night he came home from morning surgery.

    5) Didn’t get pain med but did get an anti-itching injection, we have a feeling his hair regrowing was causing agitation and that solved a lot of our issues. It would be worth talking to your vet if it’s an option.

    6) This was by far our biggest obstacle, he was always on lead to prevent running during zoomies. If he was full of energy we did training and the allure of his favourite treat was usually enough to follow some gentle exercise. Chew toys and tug play really helped us in getting his energy out.

    I hope the surgery and everything went fine for you both!

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