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  • Post edited by sunyata at 2013-06-06 09:46:01
  • Katsu show's agression towards other dogs when they come over. It's her house and she doesn't appreciate other dogs checking out her stuff. It's something we're working on. Don't worry what other people think of your dog. Every dog is different, just because Pong Pong doesn't want to play with your friends dog doesn't make her evil. Both your dogs seemed great at the meetup. I'm sure some of the other members will have some better advice on this, and steps you can take to prevent this from happening.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    A few thoughts
    - I don't know how Pong was socialized, but I know our Tsuki has a tough time 'getting' boxer/bulldog types and prefers spitz types (other shibas, huskies). We should have socialized her more around smooshed faced dogs with no tail as I think they are hard for her to read. She gets nervous around them, and runs away or growls for space. Our male was in foster care with rotties and boxers and mastiffs so he has no issues there.
    (Pong seemed fine with all other shibas at the meetup, if I recall)

    - How is the bulldog with other dogs?

    - How are the dogs introduced? In your yard? In your home? I understand this is a party, but its best to introduce dogs outside of their turf and take a walk or something before expecting them to play nice with one another.

    - How much exercise did Pong get before the company came? The less frustrated she is the better she'll probably behave.
    Post edited by tsukitsune at 2009-07-07 04:20:09
  • obukobuk
    Posts: 144
    One thing I noticed when reading your post was that the Frenchie just wanted to play play play... Now, that is fine if the other dog wants to play too, that is. Mochi is the same way except that I don't let the frustration escalate. Exercise helps a dog with frustration building up SO MUCH more than you would think until you actually see the difference between a "hyper" dog and an exercised dog. Anyway, Mochi has issues, especially with male dogs that want to play. If it's a female that wants to play, he usually joins in unless the female is trying to get him to play so much that it literally pisses him off and that's usually the very beginning of a fight (again, I don't let it escalate) I just walk the other way. Of course, Pong Pong would have to be on a leash to be able to do that with her. Another thing I would do is to let the Frenchie's owners know that Pong just doesn't want to play and that their dog needs to accept and respect that. If he can't do that, he will have to be put on a leash. If she will still start charging/attacking, she probably needs to let some energy to be released. A tired dog is a good dog ;o)
    It's just really hard to figure out what really triggers Pong's reaction by reading a post online...
    Other than that, you've already gotten some good advice regarding introduction on neutral territory, etc.
    Post edited by obuk at 2009-07-07 11:12:52
  • I'd suggest that Pong Pong just plain doesn't like the Frenchie- no matter how nice he seems to everyone else. I don't like everyone I meet, either, and it is much easier to avoid people quietly in public than to have people I don't like in my own house. Respect Pong Pong's opinion, she doesn't like one individual dog. Perfectly reasonable. Maybe Pong finds the other guy too intense, too cutesy, a close talker, who knows. but it doesn't matter.

    It is hard to get other people- friends- to accept that two normal dogs simply just don't get along, and they want to find something terribly wrong with one of them ("MY dog is friendly, but THAT one's just a JERK!"). But it doesn't sound like Pong Pong has issues with other dogs generally. It is unreasonable to expect any given dog to tolerate any other given dog, at any closeness, but commonly people do, and it is just bad expectation setting.

    I don't know how old Pong Pong is- young dogs tolerate others more easily, but when they get to be 2 or 3 many very normal, healthy dogs close their social book and stick with their existing dog buddies, and this is normal and should be expected and respected.

    You CAN try to reintroduce them as others have suggested, to manufacture tolerant behavior, and it can work, but if they don't absolutely HAVE to be together then I say let them be, spare all of you the stress and don't force them to deal with each other.

    My sister and I have to keep our two males apart in the house - they can tolerate each other outside on walks or in the car, but we'd never ask them to sit in the same part of the car, or to be in a room together, or to play. Because my sister and her two dogs stay with us at Christmas the dogs MUST compromise with us a little once or twice a year, but since she lives 7 hours away most of the time, it does not outweigh the stress on the dogs or our relationship with each other to desensitize them. So we gate and we manage for a few days.

    I think it says more from us to the boys that "Yes, I know you don't like Cody/Sage, and I won't ask you to deal with him at levels that you can't abide." Because I love my sister, I wish that all 4 dogs still got along any way you combine them, and I know she doesn't LOVE Sage because he is the bigger, meaner looking dog and her dog is cuter and fluffier and HERS. My point is that you are right, It DOES hurt when friends think your dog is a monster. But you know she isn't, and your confidence in explaining that Pong and Frenchhie just don't get along will get your friends over it. If they respect a kind request to leave Frenchie at home next time they visit, they will see Pong Pong's true colors and maybe change their opinion!
  • Obuk is right, your friends should respect that their dog is on Pong's territory and perhaps they should have their dog leashed as well...

    case in point:

    Shao New LOOOVES other dogs, esp the 2 labs next door. When their owner walked up with them up the stoop to say hi when I was gardening (and pup was on a leash) she actually growled LOUD. My neighbor and her dogs respected that, stopped where they were and Shao New was cool and then they all played again, in the middle of the stoop.

    Sometimes it's just that, the other dog needs to respect Pong's turf, and if he doesn't, the owners need to help him with it. One shouldn't let it escalate (the only time I saw Shao New freak out go rabid looking was when a standard poodle wouldn't back off, and seeing as it's owner was nowhere to be found we ran over before the poodle's legs became her chew toy).
    Post edited by CreamyShibaMom at 2009-07-07 15:16:07
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2242
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    I didn't really know what thread this article would be a good addition to. Even though at this time I don't have nor have had to deal with aggressive dogs, I know in the Shiba breed it can be an issue forum members seek out help for. That is why I thought I would share this article on why are dogs aggressive for current and future members trying to understand more about the issue.

    It is a little hard to read unless you zoom your browser in (or it was for me), but it was done by Victoria Stilwell who is a big voice on positive training and I thought a good addition for forum reference.
  • Just read the article that @redcattoo posted. Very insightful. I would love to know more about what to do when my dog attacks another dog at a park because of recourse guarding. What I mean is, what are the steps? How do I, in that moment, teach him that what he is doing is really wrong using positive methods? Based on the what I read in the article I feel like I made some major mistakes and I'd like to know the better way to do things but it isnt clear.

    Thanks guys!
    Post edited by Lindsayb at 2013-10-28 23:52:02
  • jennjenn
    Posts: 856
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1106
  • @zandrame Thinking about it, I can actually pinpoint when Tobi's stress started and realize that it had actually taken him a while to get the the state he was in. Had I just known what was going on I could have prevented it. Oh well :( Now I know what to avoid and will definitely start paying more attention!

    Thank you for your response. I will definitely check out those references you mentioned.
    Post edited by Lindsayb at 2013-10-29 14:07:22
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1590
  • @Kobe1468 That was a great article. It definitely made me think more about what I might be teaching Tobi without even knowing it.

    To everyone else: Id like to report that Tobi is doing amazingly well. He has not shown any major aggression toward another dog since the incident and enjoys his time peacefully at dog park. I am learning everyday how to better read and understand him and am removing him from situations where I can tell he is becoming stressed. He has stopped resource guarding and now has a new doggy roommate, a Brittany Spaniel that he loves(we moved apartments). He's a confident, happy little guy. Im very proud!
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1590
  • I shared on another thread about a neighbor's dog who has been exhibiting bullying behavior towards Quake the last two times we have walked together because the owner of the dog commands "Get Him" when Quake and the other dog, Desi are playing. Quake almost reached his stress thresh hold the other day, and I pulled him away and ended the "play". I think the other dog had gone from play to bullying and Quake did not like it and I do not blame him. I talked to the dog's owner today and made it clear to her that I would not tolerate that behavior from her dog and that I thought she was encouraging the bullying. She said her dog was "just playing" and I told her Quake sensed the other dog was bullying him and he was just about to defend himself when I pulled him away. I told her Quake is not afraid of her dog and has defended himself in the past when another bigger dog tried to bully him when he was living with my son. I told her that if the dogs are to remain friends then it's up to us Pet Parents to make sure there is no bullying. I do not know if it is the other dog owner is just ignorant or if she herself is a bully and her dog is acting that bullying out towards Quake. What I do know is that it is my responsibility to make sure that Quake is safe and that he continues to be a good citizen, does not learn bullying behavior from other dogs, and he is not put into a position of having to defend himself against a bullying "friend".

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