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I love their guard dog instincts!
  • wliu003wliu003
    Posts: 222
    So my fraternity had a bbq this weekend at one of the local parks and I brought Kelly. My other fraternity brother brought his pitbull/boxer mix. They didn't really get along. The boxer was extremely hyper and Kelly got a little aggressive so we ended up separating them for a bit. We tied them to near by pillars so they can be near enough to socialize but not near enough to keep fighting (supervised ofcousre.)

    Anyway, the real point of my post. So while we were eating and sitting at the table next to them, a, for the lack of a better word, stranger walked by slowly. And both dogs immediately locked their eyes on him. They followed his movements without blinking. As soon as the guy took another step closer to us Kelly let out a strong and confident bark. Everyone there complimented us on both of our dogs for their watchdog abilities.

    Now, I am not saying that the stranger was a threat to us at all, he was just on the phone walking by without any suspicious behavior (to us at least). But I thought it was cool that Shiba's have such a strong guard dog instinct that if they don't know someone or someone that is approved by their master, they are suspicious.
    Post edited by curlytails at 2012-10-23 10:28:48
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2242
    I dunno if this was the first time Kelly has displayed this type of "alarm dog" behavior, but I always love it when your dog shows you for the first time how aware and protective they are of you. Doesn't matter the size or breed, if they feel you or them are threatened they will let you know. In my opinion, it's one of purist ways a dog can show their feeling of family toward you since it is not a learned response, it's just pure instinct.

    Shiba can be tough little dogs. We have such over-the-top guardians here, sometimes I forget how intimidating a little Shiba can be. Same for Kona and Ahi, people are rather freaked out by them and I am always like "Ahi? Really? She might lick you to death...". lol.

    ----
  • jakkiharejakkihare
    Posts: 74
    Its great our shibas look out for us isn't it not so much now but in the house if leo heard the slightest sound he would bark away at whatever it was he doesnt do it much in our house but if we stay over somewhere he does it every 5 mins it can get a little frustrating especially if your trying to sleep and don't want to wake the whole place up...
    When we are on dog walks with lots of other dogs if leo sees a hill walker he will march right up to them and bark bark bark this can be a bit of a night mare as people think your dog is crazy and i feel like i gotta explain myself usually i dont really care what people think especially on a walk with a few other dogs you get the odd person " oh you have alot of dogs" "got your hands full" "GET YOUR EFFING DOG AWAY FROM ME" hahah but hey shibas are the best and im glad Leo looks after me!!
  • hondruhondru
    Posts: 529
    Back when we lived in an apartment, our balcony was pretty close to the main door, so you could see all the people coming and going from our window. Tojo would sit by the window and just watch people come and go, and if it was someone he'd never seen before, he'd let out an alarm bark. I've also gotten his alarm dog greeting before when he didn't realise it was me coming home and I've always been impressed at how confident he is when guarding the place. I always see what he's barking at when he does his "alarm" bark because he only brings it out in some circumstances.

    Lately he's been alarm barking at all the coyotes that are causing a ruckus.
    -Heidi, with Rakka (shikoku) and Sosuke (kai ken)
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    Bringing up an old thread because I figured I'd chim in.

    I used to take Sagan out at night before we put him to bed and he'd let out one or two alarm barks out in the distance. I couldn't see anything, but after a few seconds, I would notice someone walking with no reflective gear, lights, or anything (I always wear a reflective vest when I walk at night with him...). My first thought was that it was awesome of him to let me know someone was out there that I couldn't see, and for the sake of my paranoia, it makes me feel better knowing he can spot or smell people that I can't.

    I don't take Sagan out at night by myself anymore because I found someone following me in their car one night, and he was on high-profile as well. Ever since that happened, he always stares at cars on our road at night. He literally stops and stares until they go into the distance... I think it's commendable that he could sense my fear of what happened a few weeks ago. The reason I think it's this is because he never used to care about cars going by. He doesn't during the day, but at night, it's a different story.

    I doubt (and wouldn't like) Sagan actually biting and attacking someone for the sake of defense, but I think he could hold his place for deterring certain people away. There has already been one or two people afraid of him out in public for some reason -- he's quite friendly!
    image
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
    Post edited by Rikka at 2012-10-23 10:23:02
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Rikka, wow he caught on to somebody following you in a car?!?! and wtheck >_> thats scary.

    Jackie is very good at barking up a storm when she sees somebody at night, but I always say "its ok, i see them" and she calms down. Bootz rarely barks and one time I was walking the dogs, my bf met us up along the way, it was dark out and he had a hoodie on. Bootz stopped and gave a loud bark. Of course i laughed hella hard, but glad to know she was on guard :)

    Oh and since we're on this topic...one time my bf and I were in a verbal fight. Well mainly he's complaining/yelling. Jackie went to hide :( cause she couldn't handle it. Bootz hopped on the couch laid next to me and was staring my bf down. She didn't growl or showed teeth cause she loves him just as much :) but glad to see she took my side!
  • Xavier scares me at night because it could be dead quiet and all.of the sudden he jumps off the bed and starts barking and.growling! I grab the nearest hard object I.can find.thinking someone is inside my house! Only to find Xavier staring at a tree ... ugh lol Argo is very vocal... he barks out of happiness its almost like a yoddle haha
    Shiba Mom of Two (Xavier 1 1/2 red male) & Argo ( 6 month red male)
  • Oh! And one time I was at a riding camp here in new Mexico and there were horses walking freely.everywhere in herds! I was standing in the driveway to the camp and a herd of.horses started trotting my way...(I used to show horses so this didn't scare me) but Xavier jumped infront of me and started barking at the first pony to reach me. I was laughing inside but wanted to.let Xavier have his moment of glory. It was so cute to see such a little dog stand up to a 2000 pound animal :) bear cub for sure :)
    Shiba Mom of Two (Xavier 1 1/2 red male) & Argo ( 6 month red male)
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Sounds scary walking alone at night is not something I'd want to do especially in the city..

    Saya alerts me I feel she is more of a watch/alert dog I'd never think of her as a guard dog as I'd rather her be at a distance barking at the person or stay away I'd never want her to get in harms way with a person because the guy/girl might have a gun or something..

    When we go on trails where people walk no one could ever sneak up on me as Saya will always look behind us each time someone walks by or is on bike etc. She isn't afraid of bikes or people jogging by, but she does look back.

    She never reacts when they pass by as they just alert me they're passing and I get over if I need to.

    One time I was doing yard work with mom both dogs were outside off leash and Saya started alarm barking it's different bark that I know it means something is odd around.

    Up at the trails along the pond there was a skunk drinking water.

    It was far enough away it wasn't a threat to me or mom, but I'm glad she did so we knew not walk there during our walk in case it was still around.

    She never made an attempt to go after it she just stood there barking. I did tell her thank you I see it and lets be quiet now. She did and just lay down looking at it.

    We put Bella on a long leash as she is more foolish and would want to confront it. lol
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • INU RYUUINU RYUU
    Posts: 1507
    This is not so much of an anecdote about being a watch dog story but it does demonstrate my dogs protectiveness.

    A few months back while walking INU and Penny on a city sidewalk a bunch of rowdy teenagers were riding on the sidewalk on their bicycles. As they passed by I commented that they should not be on the sidewalk. The last one stopped and started to give me attitude, cursing me out and threatening. My Shibas are on a 11 foot leash and I told them, "Go get him". As they lunged forward he tried to start peddling, stumbled and nearly fell off. It must of left a brown spot on his underwear.

    I have never trained an attack command, nor, would I ever want to put them in harms way. But it was good to see that they are protective of me.
    犬竜
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    @Bootz - Yeah, it was frightening. Thank god my partner is understanding and agreed to either have him come with me when I walk Sagan out at night or he does it himself...

    @Saya - Right. I would never want Sagan to become a guard dog, but having that watch dog "instinct" is nice, in my opinion. That's amusing that she alerted you of a skunk!
    image
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
    Post edited by Rikka at 2012-10-23 20:29:10
  • RyanRyan
    Posts: 293
    Bella is pretty good at watching over the house, when her attention span can handle it...
    Suki on the other hand lets us know if a strange car passes by(we live in a court), if the neighbours are walking past the yard or if someone is coming to the door.

    Since a neighbour was trying to look into our windows from his deck Suki has been on high alert, he now growls at that neighbour every time they are in their yard, or on their deck.

    Defiantly a positive trait. We also are continuing to work on his socializing to ensure it isn't related.
    Bella (Sherae Aka Akicho) | F | Born 27/1/2012
    Suki (Aust. Ch. Betlin Takaisuki) | M | Born 03/02/2005, adopted 10/09/2012
  • My Shibas are not great at being watch dogs (and certainly not guard dogs!), though Bel is very territorial, so will bark like crazy if someone comes near the fence. And people coming IN the fence are really upsetting to her (like the jerk DHL guy who came in though I told him not). People of course don't take her seriously--she's little and cute--but she's actually one of the most likely of my dogs to bite, because she's not only territorial, but fearful.

    Of course, I have an Akita, too, so it doesn't matter if the Shibas are watch dogs. He's scary to people when he's not doing anything. And I have no doubt he would, in fact, "engage" a threat, as he has, since he was a puppy, always wanted to be in between me and what he considers to be threats (ie. strangers). I don't want him to bite people, of course, but he's got pretty good judgement, and he's certainly shown no signs that he'd bite a person for no reason. However, he's big and intimidating to people. And if I really needed protection? I think he would, probably, bite someone if I was threatened.

    As for the Kai....he loves people!
    Post edited by shibamistress at 2012-10-24 00:44:35
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    All I know is my Bear is NOT a great alarm dog ... he likes to bark at my vases of flowers on top of the china cabinet if the formal living room is dark, he likes to bark at a bush at the end of our street during our pre-bed walk, he likes to bark at himself in our sliding glass doors, he likes to bark at our male cat Rockie trying to get to play at all hours of the night, and recently we have discovered he even barks sometime when he is fast asleep (like a human who talks in their sleep I guess).

    Like the boy who cried wolf, we don't believe him anymore when we hear him bark ... we have never had a situation where he or the family was in any jeopardy, I imagine then we would know the difference and hear a real alarm bark, but for now hope to never find out what a real alarm bark would be like.
    Post edited by redcattoo at 2012-10-24 11:17:13
  • MacMac
    Posts: 61
    My guy isnt much of a guard dog. The roomies like it when he barks if someone knocks but he doesnt usually.

    the few times he has been on the patio and barked at someone he was trying to get their attention to pet him. He even wiggles his butt and struts all cute trying to engage them. And when they don't he grumbles and huffs off.
  • britkotsubritkotsu
    Posts: 210
    It has been 2 years and I still haven't heard Kishi bark. She is not a good watch or guard dog. If someone came near her she is uncomfortable with, which rarely ever happens, she runs as fast as she can and doesn't look back, lol. I need a GSD or AA I guess.
  • BrandyBrandy
    Posts: 7
    With the weather changing here in Phoenix, I can now open windows. Brandy is hearing new sounds, and its pretty funny watching her be so protective. I also love it that she just bark when others dogs around are. So you know when she is on guard I like to look and show her everything is ok...
  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    Sansa doesn't guard at all. She doesn't bark when people approach out door. When someone walks into the house she runs to the door to great them and try to get attention. Never barks. She loves everyone! That's ok with me, though.
  • xena_inuxena_inu
    Posts: 118
    with xena she's more friendly than anything, but when it comes to strangers by our windows she'll let the whole world know, and then shell try and growl at them like saying back away from the window LOL if anything shes so much more protective toward other dogs near me my brother or my husband... i do kinda wish she was a bit more protective toward humans though...but then again i love that i can take her anywhere and not have to worry about her being mean..sigh just cant have it all LOL
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    Bumping this thread with some questions.

    So Bootz is 2-3 months short of her 3rd birthday. Bootz is a very aloof and mellow dog. I've been living in my current house for about 6 months. Recently I've noticed she's been more protective of the house, and doing things i've never seen her do at my parents house (where I raised her as a puppy).

    1. She had started growling at any dog that comes by our house. She would hear them coming, run to the front door and start growling/barking.

    2. Our neighbors golden (who ran into our house before uninvited) she tried to chase/run down, and it wasn't to play!!

    3. Another neighbor of ours has a West Highland White Terrier that would always bark and jump at the door when we walk by its house. My husband walked Bootz the other day and met him for the first time. Bootz tried to attack him...which is the first time Bootz has EVER tried to attack anything...

    The common factor I see is the house. I noticed when I take the "house" factor out, she acts just fine - at hiking trails and dog parks. I am just curious if any other Shiba owner has the same problem, is there something I should do? Is this how it would be for the rest of her life? Can this get worst?

    Thanks!
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8584
    @Bootz - Welcome to Shiba adulthood. I noticed that both of my girls got more protective of their home/yard as they reached adulthood (between 2 and 3). I would start to be more cautious of letting her meet dogs near her home and try and make the introductions as brief and positive as possible.

    For me, if another dog has to come over to my house, I will take both of my pups for a walk with the new dog to let them get to know each other a bit on neutral ground. Once they seem no longer interested in each other (which for my two does not take long, they are not really interested in other dogs unless that other dog is in Bella's space), then we can go inside. Everyone stays leashed and separated until all parties are comfortable. If anyone seems anxious or upset, everyone gets crated. If we do let them free range together, it is under direct supervision with treats ready to redirect if anyone gets a little too interested in someone else.

    As for the "near" the house, I have not had to deal with that until recently. I have relocated from a house with two fenced yards and a neighbourhood that only had a couple of other dogs, none of which were walked on a regular basis to a large metropolitan area into a condo with no fenced yard and LOTS of other dogs. So far, there have been no off leash dog incidents at my new house, and most other dog owners seem pretty reasonable (keep their distance and ask if their dog can say hi). I have been really impressed so far. Granted, it has only been a few days in the new place and it has been REALLY cold, so who knows what kind of crazies will come out when it warms up!
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Can you put a fence up in your front yard to keep the other dogs away?
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @sunyata wow that is a big change. How are you and your dogs handling it?

    Glad to know this is normal. It was just very odd for me to see since Bootz is very passive. I live in a Townhouse community...so we are not as spaced out as we would like, and there is no front yard. We can put up a gate but I don't think its necessary. All the owners here walk their dogs on leash. It just so happened that one morning, my neighbor "thought" he had control over his golden, walked him off leash, and I HAPPENED to open the door to take my girls out at the same time they passed my house.

    Next house definitely has to have a yard :(
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8584
    @Bootz - I think the dogs are handling it better than I am!

    I have known that this move was coming for about six months, so I have been trying to adjust them to a more set routine than just in and out whenever they want and a couple of longer walks a day. I started by not immediately letting them outside as soon as we woke up and then transitioned to taking them for their morning walk after I was showered and they ate (they initially went out immediately after getting up and then for a walk after they ate). It has been a process, but they have done great. The only problem is we are now in a multi-family building (there is someone below us and on each side of us), and they are not used to the extra noise. It will take some time, but I think we will all be fine.

    Hopefully it is temporary though and I will find an affordable house with a yard to buy in the next couple of years (affordable is a relative term I have found in the NCR!)
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • AntoinetteAntoinette
    Posts: 887
    Quake is an excellent watch dog!!! He is also very protective of me and makes sure to check people out when we are walking whether it's during the day or at night. I always stay in well lighted and populated areas especially in the winter when it's dark but it's great knowing that Quake is always alert and ready to protect me. I also keep an eye out for anyone who looks suspicious because I would not want to put my angel Quake in a bad position. I do carry pepper spray just in case we would ever need it.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    So...I walked Bootz and Jackie last night in our neighborhood.

    Another golden (not the same one from before) was walking offleash and spotted Bootz and Jackie from down the block. It started running towards us at full speed, not responding to any of the owner's commands ( "NO! COME BACK, STOP" ). Bootz and Jackie already saw it coming, so there was no way for us to sprint away.

    Jackie stood near me, barking her head off. Bootz stood her ground in front of me, the hair on her back was stiff, her teeth baring, tail up and was barking at the golden.

    Luckily, the golden stopped, a feet away from Bootz. The golden was confused as to why Bootz was barking, and wanted to greet hello. I was very surprised but proud at the same time. Bootz was not afraid. She did not attack the Golden, but was very clear and told the Golden to back up.

    How I handled the situation: When i saw the golden, I tighten my grip on the leash. During all the barking, I told Bootz and Jackie to stay. They did not move, but stayed their ground. I assessed the golden and notice it was not a threat. So I told Bootz and Jackie "its ok" and "leave it". After the golden moved away from us, I rub down on the stiff Hair on Bootz back and told her "Good girl" "its ok" and directed them home.


  • @Bootz, I heard conflicting thoughts on "strange dog charging". I heard you should drop the leash so the dog has more freedom to defend itself and is thus unlikely to panic? was that just internet nonsense?

    (and you know I am NOT criticizing you or how you handled this, right? Its more of a general edification question)
    Post edited by BanjoTheBetaDog at 2014-05-05 15:09:41
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @BanjoTheBetaDog

    I think that is "internet nonsense". Offleash "freedom" will not help the situation. If I had let go of the leash, there would be no difference for me since Bootz and Jackie do very well with my verbal commands.

    HOWEVER, I can't say the same for anybody else's dog. If it was a reactive dog with no offleash reliability...Their Shiba will be attacking the charging dog, and it would be very bad.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    Letting a dog offleash when it is being charged and reactive is a bad idea. If you let go of the leash, the dog will for sure get in a fight, when if you keep control of your dog, on the leash, you might be able to avoid a fight.

    letting go of a dog's leash in a stressful situation could also mean the dog bolts (especially a worry with Shibas and NKs) and that could also be a disaster. Now if there is an out and out fight, you might have to drop the leash to separate to them, but I'd definitely be trying to NOT to drop the leash.

    Some dogs may be less reactive when they are not on the leash, but once a dog is charging another, it's too late to even consider that.

    (I'm really surprised by the stuff come up with....Not meaning you, Banjo, but whoever came up with this in the first place.)
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    In an extreme situation, like if there is a dog charging you and you are unable to defend your own dogs, dropping the leads can give them a chance to flee if there is a big size discrepancy AND you are unable to pick your dog or dogs up. That would honestly be my last ditch step.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • knnwangknnwang
    Posts: 645
    I just need to outrun you... lol
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    Ok so...different situation happen last night.

    Husband and I were walking Bootz and Jackie. Husband was with Bootz on lead about 50 feet away from me. I was with Jackie, offleash, playing fetch.

    Out of nowhere my husband was yelling to me in a very low/soft tone and all i heard was "Jackie". So i looked over and said "what babe? i can't hear you" he looked at me then pointed at the other direction. I looked over and saw a chihuahua 30 feet from them, then 10 feet behind the chihuahua was an aggressive looking pitbull.

    This was the same Pitbull/Chihuahua pair my housemate mentioned to me about before - they stalked him a couple times when he returned home late, and sometimes he had to wait in his car before they leave.

    I quickly panicked. I called Jackie over and secured her in my arms. My husband was trying to get Bootz to back away, but her paws were firmly planted in the ground, and she was in a stare lock with the pitbull. I quickly walked over to my husband and recalled her. Then we backed away while keeping an eye on the pitbull.


    I was definitely frighten, but i'm thinkin.. what I could/should do if I was walking both dogs alone, and we were approached/attacked by an aggressive dog. I had a discussion with kumaDude, and one of the things he pointed out was to whip/hit the dog with the leash. Not sure if that would work...but it didn't cross my mind. First thing I would instinctively do is try to put my two dogs behind me and kick the aggressive dog, but knowing Bootz, she will try to jump in front and protect me :(


    oh and FYI. This infamous pair only comes out at night, and animal control only work regular hours i think?
    Post edited by Bootz at 2014-05-22 12:33:17
  • AntoinetteAntoinette
    Posts: 887
    @Booz-I am sorry you've had those encounters while walking your Shibas. I had an incident while walking Quake last night. An unleashed dog that looked like a Golden came charging at Quake out of the blue. Quake started to bark and growl and stood his ground right next to me. I tried to get in front of Quake and yelled at the dog but Quake went up right next to me. I then saw the owner come up and I yelled at him "come leash your dog now or I'll spray him!"!!! I had pulled my dog deterrent pepper spray out and was aiming it. The dog's owner didn't say anything but he did get his dog and he put a leash on him and walked away. I walked away with Quake. This is the second time that same unleashed dog has charged at Quake and the last time I quickly stepped in front and yelled at the dog and he went away. I would only use the pepper spray as a last resort but there is no way I will allow Quake to be attacked. Quake was attacked by a Bull Mastiff six weeks after my son adopted him and sustained two serious bites. That probably the reason Quake is reactive to other dogs now although not all other dogs. I feel safer having the pepper spray with me even though like I said before it is meant to be used only as a last resort.
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1106
    @Bootz, we more often encounter coyotes at night than stray dogs, but I would approach it the same way. The animals could be dangerous, so we try not to walk alone at night. We bring a knife, short stick (and a black belt who can use it :p), a marine whistle, and a super bright flashlight. I've considered an air horn, and pepper spray - but I would hesitate to use the spray near ourselves and Kouda, so would try other things first. I also carry a slip lead in my treat bag in case I need to catch a dog.

    For your strays, if you have your phone on you, could you take a picture of them with flash? It probably won't scare them, but you get documentation for animal control.

    In the scenario of you being alone with an aggressive dog, I would pick Jackie up because she is so small. But likely, if a dog attacks, you won't see it coming or have much time to prepare. Kicking or hitting may work, but could also redirect the attack to you. Keeping the dog at a distance with a spray or stick would be safer.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Zandrame

    Coyotoes?! My husband sometimes work night shift so I have to walk alone :( But when I am alone, I am more on guard due to the amount of times I have encountered offleash dogs. I actually watch for Bootz body language as well, since she can hear/smell/see them before me, and tenses up while looking in their direction.

    How can you carry so much stuff?!?! I usually only have 1. leash, 2. ball, 3. treats, 4. phone, 5. keys.

    My first instinct has always been to pick Jackie up, since she is so small, and will not be able to defend herself. I think i'm more scared of, if a dog was to attack, and I had Jackie in my arms, how can i protect Bootz? (One hand would be holding Jackie, other hand will be holding Bootz leash).

    Ideally, I was thinking of letting go Bootz leash, and then trying to block the stray while trying to hold Bootz back? Also if the stray starts to bite, where would be the best spot for me to kick/hit the dog so it will weaken them and potentially scare them off?

    The park is right next to our townhouse community, so I know if i scream for help, somebody is bound to look out their window and run out after seeing the pitbull...( i hope lol ).

    At this point i'm trying to mentally train myself. FYI - We already called animal control yesterday, for a DIFFERENT pitbull my husband encountered that morning. It was friendly, offleash, alone and no tags on. One of our neighbors actually held on to it while waiting for animal control to arrive.
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1106
    @Bootz, lol! Most of the stuff I carry fits in the treat bag - the slip lead is the cheap ribbon kind - got a bunch from Amazon, it sits in the bottom of the bag, underneath the ziploc of treats. The house key is in the small front pocket of the bag, along with poop bags. The flashlight is also small, and will fit too, but makes it heavy so I put it in my pocket usually. Phone is in my other back pocket. The whistle is on a neck lanyard, for easy access. Leash in one hand, and stick in the other (but only when alone. Usually the other person will hold the stick). It only gets tricky when it comes time to pick up the poop. Then the stick goes under an arm. We don't usually carry toys, but if we do, Kouda's gotta hold it. ;)

    And coyotes, yes. Thankfully we've only come across single ones, and they scare easily and turn around. We have mistaken a corgi in the bushes for a coyote, and scared the crap out of her with a combined flashlight/whistling/stick-twirling charge!

    I agree that letting Bootz go would allow you more freedom. As for where to hit a dog, I would use mostly jabs with the stick to keep distance, aiming for the face. If the dog is latched on, i would use blows to the gut, with the stick or kicking. Or pry the teeth open with the stick. But honestly, I haven't had to test this! But body blows worked for Tara the cat!

    People with more experience breaking up dog fights could share techniques. I've heard dragging a dog by the hind legs works, but I can't imagine having the opportunity to do so in a frenzy.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    Good tips. I can't even walk in the late afternoon here because of coyotes, though our coyotes DO NOT SCARE. In fact, they usually stalk us, and they hunt in groups of 2-3, and almost always have one approaching while one tries to cut us off through the woods. (this is, btw, in my neighborhood streets, but I do live in a semi-rural mountainous area). I carry pepper spray, but also need to carry a stick or something, because I'd like to use that before I use the pepper spray. People often suggest an air horn, or wasp spray (even better than pepper spray because it goes a long distance) but I can't carry that much, and if it was in a backpack, it's not terribly handy, you know? I think the best thing is a big stick and a backup pepper spray or something like that. (citronella spray would also work, but also comes in big cans which is why I don't carry it).

    Lindsay has carried a riding crop, and that would work too, esp. for a dog that came to close--you could whack them on the nose, and it's more a sting and a sound than actually hurting them. I have one, and might start carrying it.
  • Damn in Australia most of the dangerous wild animals would rather avoid humans and dogs, glad we don't have to deal with that.

    I had a bad experience with off leash dogs(well one in particular that stood out). I was on my normal walk when a little yappy thing came charging towards us. Kuma never backs down and even Oslo will defend himself if he can't get away so all I could think of was "oh god my dogs are going to kill this little rat". I can break up a two dog fight ut no way could I deal with three dogs by myself. Luckily he stopped before he got to us and I quickly moved on.

    It didn't end there of course as I walked around the corner I fell through the pavement. I didn't hurt myself or let go of the dogs but it was very unexpected. After picking myself up I continued but there was a guy playing with his dog in their front yard that incidentally, was facing a major road. This dog charges us as well although this time it's bigger than both Oslo or Kuma so I'm concerned for my dogs safety. He manages to grab the dog before he gets to us and apologise for it.

    This all happened within 10min of leaving the house so I decided call it quits and go home early, it was too much stress for so little time.
  • fisticuffsfisticuffs
    Posts: 148
    @Shibamistress That's why I carry a .38 special.
    We don't seem to have problems with unavoidant coyotes here, but we hike a lot and I'll be damned if I'm going to let anything get Kiri or I.
    @oslo_and_kuma Ugh. I get scared of an Off-leash dog ruining Kiri. I wouldn't hesitate to sue - the only way people will stop behaving irresponsibly is if you make it more painful for them to continue doing so.
  • A few weeks ago my male Shiba starts doing his I need to tinkle stare. He is naturally pretty quiet so I just get the stare when it's time, which is rare as they know their pattern of going out twice a day and rarely deviate. So I grab him and run down the stairs and he is pulling me swiftly across the yard which he rarely does. This is usually his I really need to poop pull and it made sense because he was due for a doodee. However he darts right instead of left where he normally poops. At the very same time I hear something so I look up and about 10 feet to my right-front is a bear just looking at me and Lakota. He was pulling towards the bear and with a 6 foot leash he was almost there. So I know what you are SUPPOSED to do when you see a bear. I did everything wrong. It caught me by such surprise I immediately started pulling my dog with a sort of side trot backwards as fast as I could (with him still trying to get to the bear wasn't very fast). Lakota finally gave up when I got back to the stairs. Phew....I am not sure what he planned on doing with the bear once he got to it, but I really didn't feel like finding out. My female hates bears and would have attacked it. He is always more curious than anything and was probably just going in for a sniff followed by a fake tough man growl.

    Coyotes are definitely nothing to snicker at. They are very intelligent and opportunistic. A friend of ours had their 2 year old nephew carried away by coyotes, right off the front porch with the parents in the front yard, and he was killed. They work well in groups and unlike wolves, rarely have a fear of humans. On my hikes I carry bear spray for 3 reasons none of which is a bear....people, stray packs of dogs, and coyotes. I have run into all 3 where I wish I had my bear spray, but never again.
    Post edited by oneluckymug at 2014-06-01 19:31:32
  • NASANASA
    Posts: 189

    Coyotes are definitely nothing to snicker at. They are very intelligent and opportunistic. A friend of ours had their 2 year old nephew carried away by coyotes, right off the front porch with the parents in the front yard, and he was killed. They work well in groups and unlike wolves, rarely have a fear of humans. On my hikes I carry bear spray for 3 reasons none of which is a bear....people, stray packs of dogs, and coyotes. I have run into all 3 where I wish I had my bear spray, but never again.



    i havent met a coyote but after hearing your stories and @shibamistress , not sure if i want to. And to carry off a 2 year old baby. WTH! I could only imagine the parent's stress.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @oneluckymug

    what the heck? Carried off while the parents were in the front yard?!
  • AntoinetteAntoinette
    Posts: 887
    Coyotes sound very scary and dangerous. I'm glad not to have to deal with any coyotes. However, within the last 10 days Quake and I have seen a raccoon two times. Once was in the morning around 6:30 AM during our morning walk. The next time was about 7:30 PM on Saturday evening. I live in DC and was walking Quake in a residential neighborhood! I will keep away from that street because both times the raccoon was on the same street! I do carry pepper spray all the time and would certainly use it but I'd rather avoid any altercation altogether!
  • Bootz said:

    @oneluckymug

    what the heck? Carried off while the parents were in the front yard?!



    I don't know a lot of the details and have never been to this persons yard. I was told they had a front porch that had 1 entrance that wrapped around the front half of the house. They left him there often with his toys while they did yard work and such as they could see him through the railing and he couldn't crawl over it....basically like a giant playpen. I do know their house was surround by woods by other than that I can't tell you how far the porch is from the woods. They saw the coyote running from the stairs with the boy and the boy was found dead later in the woods. I was told this story maybe 10 years ago, but never asked when it happened so anywhere from about 10-17ish years ago based on what I know about the folks ages involved.

    I don't know anything else about the situation, but if I had to guess I would say the coyotes had been watching their pattern for a while and knew exactly when to strike. If you see a coyote that is repeatedly letting himself be seen in daylight lurking around your property, he is looking for a chance to get at something and it's best to eliminate the offender.

    Saw this video a while back. A pretty cool video. Based on the comments a lot of folks think this coyote is playing, but it sure looks to me like he is testing the will, defense, and weaknesses of the potential victim. **warning bad language** Even when Canadians are about to be eaten they are polite. Since the coyote is by itself I think if the guy had remained standing and made himself look bigger while he kicked at it, it would have moved on much sooner.

    Post edited by oneluckymug at 2014-06-02 13:33:23
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1588
    Hmmm....Canadians are polite even when they are about to be eaten?? Is that another 'joke'?!

    Coyotes, in general, are shy. Most will run away from humans, to a safe distance. They are, however, opertunistic, and will venture into populated areas. In Ontario, Canada(where I live), they are becoming more bold, and it isn't uncommon to hear of missing dogs/cats out of the backyards in cities. But when it comes to humans, I have yet to hear of any Coyote attacks.

    I do agree that they tend to hunt in pairs and it would be almost impossible to stop a attack on your dog, without a weapon/gun. Kobe has been stalked as we walked out in the fields near the woodland. It's a pretty scary situation, but we've, I guess, been lucky.

    Last year I found a dead Coyote in the ditch not too far from our home. It was a big male...defiantly nothing to take lightly. With this respect for them, I would probably choose to report any suspicious Coyotes to the proper authorities before eliminating it myself...if possible.
    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
  • Not sure about Canada but the state I'm in they are considered pests. You can kill them year round (during the daylight) and don't even have to report it as long as you have a hunting license. You can kill them anytime on your own property (essentially) if you believe them to be a threat. I wouldn't kill them just because they were there though. Not only should you try to avoid killing almost any animal unless you plan to consume it, they are the only thing keeping the deer population down here. Amazing animals as long as they keep their distance.

    I obviously can't say what % of the coyotes around come close, as many I probably never know are there. However, I've run into them dozens of times around here. Often within feet. Maybe it's the popularity of the hiking trails (appalachian mountain and appalachian trail) but around here they seem to not care and will confidently trot right up to you. I know California has had a lot of coyote problems. Now back in the midwest I know there were plenty of coyotes, and I heard them often, but I never saw one.

    Luckily I haven't been that close with my Shiba. In fact it seems when she has been around they have been more cautious. I have had the opposite problems with stray dogs though when Montana is hiking with me.

    Back to Shibas guarding instincts. Montana stays by me all the time. She's 9 and still follows me around like a puppy. When she sleeps in our room she sleeps essentially on top of me and always has. There is an exception though. My wife is now pregnant with our 3rd. With every pregnancy she sleeps on the other side of my wife away from me, between my wife and the door. When there is a noise or something she normally ignores it, but when my wife is pregnant and we are in bed she jumps up at every noise and go's to investigate. She returns and lays by my wifes side. She did this with our 1st 2 kids until about 2 weeks after they were born, then returns to sleeping by me.
    Post edited by oneluckymug at 2014-06-02 23:36:17
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    Everyone keeps telling me how shy coyotes are and how afraid of people they are. Apparently, the local coyotes haven't gotten the memo, because they are neither shy nor afraid of people. :) In addition to following us and stalking us, they don't scare when I yell at them either. And they've gotten scary close to us....I mean, like within 5 or 6 feet. Our most recent included stalking, and I did manage to keep a much better distance this time (by walking really fast, but not running, and I did keep turning around so they didn't sneak up on us), but then a car came, and they just stopped right in front of the car, because they were after us. The guy in the car honked, and they didn't even look at him or move, then finally after a minute or so, casually trotted off like, yeah, whatever, we're not impressed by you. As usual in my encounters with them, there were three: two trailing us, and one trying to cut us off through the woods. Sometimes I see a hunting pair, too. One of my neighbors has a game cam set up in their yard, and they said they saw coyotes strolling right up their driveway midday, and then the cheeky canines actually approached a window and looked in! They're clearly part of a local pack, and when I see them--more than I would like and up closer than I would like--they look pretty sleek and healthy and not at all underfed!

    I watched a really interesting documentary on coywolves (aka the eastern coyote), which talked about how much bigger they are than regular coyotes, and bolder (though ours are also big and bold, but supposedly, no coywolves here in NM yet). It had videos of them strolling through neighborhoods in Toronto, etc. And the coywolves, have, in fact, attacked and killed a hiker in Canada (Newfoundland maybe? I'm forgetting where it happened now), and it was a documented case, but of course that is extremely rare and highly unusual. Here's the video: it was super interesting and talked a lot about how coywolves developed, etc: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/meet-the-coywolf/meet-the-coywolf/8605/

    Anyway, I really worry about running into them when I'm out with my old boy. He's 10 and not in great shape with his bad knees, and I worry about him. He's about 40 pounds. And they've come after me with my Kai Ken (also 40 pounds). When I've been out with the Akita they haven't got so close, but she's bigger (they did come after us once when she was a pup, and I had to pick her up and put her in my coat!). But even if I was with the big male Akita (120 pounds), I'd worry, because 3 against one isn't good odds, and even if he killed a coyote, he'd likely still get hurt in the process....


  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @shibamistress

    Looked in the window??!! wow. Lots of balls.
  • fisticuffsfisticuffs
    Posts: 148
    @oneluckymug a BEAR? I would have peed myself! I've never seen a bear in the wild, up close or otherwise, thankfully. Coyotes in general remind me a lot of dingoes in their demeanor and build (supposedly dingoes and Shibas have a common ancestor?) It's quite impressive how your dog understands pregnancy and protects you wife during it.

    We don't live in city limits, so it's legal for us to discharge a weapon here. Though, I'd fight it like hell if we lived in city limits and was fined for killing a coywolf/coyote that I had a reasonable expectation would have harmed me.
    The worst we've encountered here is opossum and a poor terrified raccoon we'd inadvertently trapped on the trampoline one night.
    Fortunately, Portland has so much green space that they rarely venture into neighborhoods, and I'm sure the geniuses that let their cats wander outdoors keep them well-fed enough that they don't need to risk attacking a human. I was talking to a neighbor that said they were commonly in the field where I walk Kiri until a couple years ago when the homeless people moved into the woods near there. So, uh, win?

    @Kobe1468 I'd be curious what killed the big coyote - was it near the road?

    @Shibamistress Maybe it's time to invest in a small revolver? I'd be terrified to walk where you are, armed or not. Most of the coyote problems in Oregon are either a couple hours East or South of me.
    Honestly, the biggest worry we've got here is this weird malamute problem where we normally hike - 8 have been found there in the last 2 months and 4 of them killed a goat (farmer shot two, and the other two took off). The ones they have are malnourished. Sounds like a breeder off-loading to me.

    The guard instinct (along with their aloofness and compact size) was the reason I chose the Shiba breed. Kiri hasn't disappointed there - she's great at it. She alerted me to a possum in the yard a couple weeks ago.
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1588
    @fisticuffs...I was there when the township came to remove it. They said they thought it had been hit by a car....would hate to see what the car looked like!(if true)

    There are a lot of farmers out here who shoot first and ask questions later. We also have a large Mennonite population around here... Can't imagine they are fond of Coyotes!

    @shibamistress... I think there are a lot of variables that lead to how Coyotes act around humans. Where I am, they are constantly being shot at, and our area isn't very populated to begin with, so they are not as used to human interaction, making them a bit more skittish.

    Coyotes living closer to towns and cities are probably more used to humans, probably aren't shot at as much, thus are more confident around humans.

    Overpopulation, lack of food sources....lots if variables.

    In any event, they are not to be taken lightly, yet we must remember that they are only doing what is natural to them...which is becoming harder and harder as humans populate more and more land.
    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I agree with Kobe1468. Coyotes near me act afraid and will run at sight of me. I dunno how the ones in city act probably more bold since people feed feral cats and don't keep trash secure or toss chicken wings all over the place.. :\

    I'm more in country and people have shot at coyotes before and one was hit and killed. I'm sure each area coyotes are different.

    There are cases of coyote attacks on kids and one was on a man on a riding mower.. the coyotes who attacked man were found and tested positive for rabies Luckily he was able to get to the house and didn't get hurt. The story from the man said they were aggressive and wasn't afraid of the mower at all..

    A singer was attacked coyotes. Another documentary on it had info on coyotes from few different areas and some on eastern ones.

    From past post on her or elsewhere I think carrying firearms is illegal. :\

    Like Kobe said I think act of hunting them or hazing them helps keep them more fearful. From what is sounds your area doesn't have much in hunters to hunt any pesky ones or ac peeps don't care to trap them or take care of them. :(

    If coyotes in my area acted that way I'd carry gun on my walks and hikes. Every time I see a coyote it is running away fast as it can only time I see it acting normal and calm is when I saw it walking on the frozen pond and going to the woods. I was inside the house so it didn't know I was watching it.

    I do think coyotes can be dangerous especially to dogs, kids, and sometimes adults. Some coyotes do hunt in packs some more or less in pairs and will have pups with them till older.

    Most dog attacks in my area are tiny dogs like chihuahuas, toy poodles and Pomeranians. Worker at mom's work two toy poodles were attacked. Let out at night in unfenced yard. Husband got gun and shot in the ground the noise scared it off and they got the dog in vet the other dog ran to the house when it happened so was OK.

    I never let my two dogs out off leash at night we go potty on leash. Coarse even with fenced yard you can have issues if there is gaps in the fence, coyotes jump high and dig too.

    Wasp spray might be handy the length it sprays it pretty far, but might be an issue if very windy. :\

    Found a article on the singer's death. this happened in Nova Scotia.
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/10/29/canada.singer.killed/index.html?_s=PM:SHOWBIZPretty

    part of the documentary on this attack more in detail.


    Anyways I do like Saya's watch doggieness she knows who is friendly she'll alert bark at people she is unsure of, but neighbors or delivery people she is fine with and ignores or goes to greet.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)

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