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  • Post edited by sunyata at 2013-06-06 14:26:15
  • I really like the DAP. Dog Appeasing Pheromone. It the pheromone that mother dogs give off to their puppies to keep them calm when they are nursing sleeping ect.

    There are three ways to use it the most popular is the diffuser its like a glade plug-in. They emits the pheromone into the air of a room for about a month then you replace the cartridge just like the glade plug-ins. You can get these at almost any pet store.

    Then there's the spray, you spray it on bedding or in an area to calm the dog down. The spay last for a few hours and is great for traveling in a car or in a crate for the first time ect. You can get these at almost any pet store.

    The most effective is the color. Its a collar that the dog wheres like a flea collar and it emits the pheromone into the air around the dog. It goes every where with the dog so it works with almost every kind of nervousness and aggression. You do have to get the collar from the vet though.

    DAP works amazingly the trainer I work with recommends them to a ton of people. And since you are not drugging the dog the dog learns that the situations he encounters are not really all that bad and allot of times the DAP does not need to be used forever.

    I hope this helps!
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2242
    Post edited by BradA1878 at 2008-11-19 19:19:35
  • Thanks for the suggestion! We had been given a DAP but gave it to someone else shortly afterward, they needed it more... we'll have to pick one up!

    The changes are both great and not so great, but such is life.
  • The DAP is a great suggestion.

    Check into Resources supplements. They have an "anxiety and stress formula" with melatonin, chamomile, passionflower, uncaria, schizandra, B vitamins etc. They are only supplied through veterinarians. www.genesisvets.com
    Most of these sort of products need to be given continuously for best results.

    When looking at homeopathic remedies or supplements, at the very least ensure that they are recognized by the NASC (National Animal Supplement Council). There is NO FDA oversight on these types of products and quality and content varies. See http://www.nasc.cc/ for more details.

    If there is an event that is very stressful, but unlikely to persist forever, talk to you veterinarian about some alprazolam. This an anxiolytic (different than a sedative) and is often prescribed for dogs that have thunderstorm or other phobias. The fact that it addresses the underlying anxiety and doesn't simply zonk them out can make it a very useful tool combined with counterconditioning. Alprazolam is a controlled substance.
    http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=2581


    Dogs also tolerate fluoxetine well, with few side effects if the dose is slowly introduced and manipulated. Generic is available, but there a product labeled for dogs from Eli Lilly brand name Reconcile. Some dogs have a loss of appetite initially and some drowsiness. Note though, the message about the potential for disinhibition.

    See http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2742&S=1

    The Freedom of Information Summary for Reconcile can be downloaded at http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/foiabst2.html
    Scroll down to NADA number 141-272

    My friend has a Staffy Bull Terrier rescue who has had outstanding results with fluoxetine!

    Good luck. In the meantime, invite lots of people over to your house and have them all bearing treats for Kitsune & Tsuki! Also provide them with a safe haven place in case they get overwhelmed. Somewhere that they know noone will bother them.
    Post edited by TeamLaika at 2008-11-21 21:08:43
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    All the people we sold DAP to really liked it.
  • I have heard about Zilk
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    I have a kind of philosophical question that I hope you will indulge:

    If you have an anxious dog (when in public) and you give it a calming agent (mild, like walnut ext or rescue remedy) before going into a public situation (like a beginners agility class) - do you think OTHER DOGS can sense the alteration of my dog's natural state and react differently than they normally would if he was not given a calming agent?

    Last night we took Kitsu to an agility class a friend's dog is taking, to see how he'd react to the facility, equipment and people there. Kitsu is altered and well socialized with other dogs when properly introduced. He was fine for the most part (thanks Rescue remedy?) until a standard poodle gets all reactive in his face, which I think was more confusing than anything since this dog came out of no where with hackles raised and teeth showing (this dog was also intact). But I'm wondering... was it because he was a male, a little scared, or because he was on a calming agent?

    My mind is just wandering...
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 1165
    I think we're also missing a control variable to your summary here. Has the poodle had any past interactions with Kitsu and how did it go? It might not be your dog, it might be the poodle? We can go in so many different ways with it.

    Jesse
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    Good questions, Jesse!

    No, the poodle has never met Kitsune - which is why I thought it odd that he automatically just jumped down his throat first meeting... like either the poodle was off or he thought Kitsu was off.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Well, lots of dogs that show take rescue remedy before going in the ring and standing near other dogs and they are not allowed to be aggressive or reactive as the judge will excuse them. So if the majority of dogs have a good mellow going on, no-one gets upset. I think you need to give the poodle some rescue remedy:)...I'm sure they can smell the herbs in the drops but if the individual dog is acting nervous or fearful, I would think that would be more likely to encourage another dog to to try and correct that. Beebe has tried to correct other anxious and nervous dogs before during class, she was there herself and the other dogs tried to correct her. It just takes a little time.
    That's cool you're doing agility!
    Post edited by lindsayt at 2009-01-17 23:33:04
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    Kitsu was a bit anxious even though we tried to give him a RR mellow... maybe that was bothering the poodle more than anything. A lot of factors, I know, but I had to wonder if giving him RR before meets would be worth it or not.

    We're excited about agility! This is the place we're going to: www.forpawsandatail.com
    (the website is shat and hard to read..)

    classes start this week and on the only night I don't have classes! yay!
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    This weekend we have been hotelling it, strangers and dogs every where, and the RR has seemed to make it easier for Ike and Beebe to cope with all the new situations, people, noises and dogs. Beebe is able to focus better on me and respond to commands and isn't appearing to be as anxious/on guard as she has been before. I think whatever effect it has must not be very long lasting though.

    You will be posting agility pictures, I assume...That looks like so much fun!
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    If he actually does anything in the class, we'll take a picture of it for sure!
    We've been working on focus training with him a lot in preparation for this, and I'm hopeful, but he's such a wishy washy shiba sometimes so we'll see.
  • Just curious, does the DAP work with puppies who love to chew? Our shiba, Penny, likes to chew EVERYTHING. We're trying to teach her to only chew her toys ... it's a slow process but she's learning!
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8589
  • Post edited by shibamistress at 2011-10-18 12:38:24
  • zoezoezoezoe
    Posts: 110
    I put a DAP collar on my fearful dog (fear of strangers, loud noises, objects) a few days ago. She started to become a little calmer in that she was no longer super excited/wagging tail to see me or other people/dogs in the house. However she began to have pee accidents in the house usually when someone comes home and she gets excited. The other night though while we were sleeping she suddenly began barking at nothing and peed. Last night she acted very strange. She was acting more scared instead of less anxious. She was looking around all over the place kind of like if there's a fly or bug flying around the room but I couldn't find anything in the house. She did this both in the kitchen and when I took her to the bedroom. Her tail was down and she looked scared! When we came home last night from buying groceries she wouldn't stop barking and was scared of all the grocery bags (she is generally scared of plastic bags but usually just avoids them). I decided to take the collar off because it freaked me out the way she was acting.

    Has anyone else had weird effects using the DAP plug in or collar? Does she just need more days to adjust to it?
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Post edited by lindsayt at 2011-11-04 10:36:38
  • How old is your dog and what is the background? Did you just move etc etc??
    Snf
    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2011-11-04 10:29:53
  • zoezoezoezoe
    Posts: 110
    @lindsayt - Your dog sounds exactly like mine. She's very scared of being outside/going for walks and always has explosive diarrhea and pulls/tries to escape.

    I rescued her at 6 months and it seems her fears of outside have only gotten worse. We have been working with the backyard and she's gotten better out there but she still stands very still if she can hear loud cars from the main road or the wind moves the trees/branches. I would like to enroll her in class but she is scared of being outside so it's tough to get her to the car and she is scared of the car (throws up), plus she would be terrified of her new surroundings and all the humans at the class. I've been trying to work her on getting used to outside first before moving on to the next steps but it's been very slow progress. We have tried a behaviorist but she was scared of her. We've also tried a thundershirt but it had no effect. It even took her many months of seeing the same family members every day for her to finally be somewhat okay around them. She is still nervous around a few family members that she only sees a few times a week.

    She's going for her 6 month check up (she's almost 1 yo now) this weekend. Should I ask the vet to check her thyroid levels?

    Nothing in the house has changed and she was perfectly fine before I put on the collar so I want to say the collar had some weird affect on her...
  • AnnaAnna
    Posts: 621
    Do you have any training schools around that offer a fearful-specific training class?

    The place I take Hammond to has that sort of thing. It's a very small class (maximum of like 6 dogs per class) and it's targeted at nervous/fearful dogs to teach them that it's okay to be around other dogs, strangers, new environments, etc. It worked pretty well for most of the dogs, too. A friend of mine was the co-teacher, so once (in the last few weeks) I went in as a stranger. My initial thought was "What? These are fearful dogs? Most of them are walking up to me with tails wagging to eat the treats." My friend was like "Yeah, first class they were the exact opposite of that".

    So even though she's afraid of the car/strangers/new places, don't rule out a training class. Just make sure you're taking her to a proper level class (with the fearful specific there's less risk of rowdy outgoing dogs approaching and scaring her more).

    How long did you try the behaviorist, and what was the behaviorist's opinion of your pup being scared? It's probably not something that can be fixed in one visit. The class I mentioned went for like 8-10 weeks, I think, with lots of at home practice
  • Dogs do go into several fear/unsure stages even the most bold. One of those would be around 1 yr of age. If your girl is a bit on the scared side then the behavior will be more pronounced during the development stages.

    I think you are doing the right thing by taking it slowly and one step at a time. If you suspect it is the collar just take it off and see what happens, no harm in that. Each is an individual so you have to observe what is working or not.

    At her check up I would have thyroid checked. At the very least you will have a measure to check against as the dog ages. Be sure to keep all file records of blood work for the future.


    As far as training classes, I would not give up on that and see if you can find a calmer more quite class. Speaking with an instructor that is familiar with shy dogs may be of help. Just taking your dog to class is a big step and no one has to pet your dog. Going can help you build some techniques to use in helping your dog adjust. Take it one step at a time and see how it goes. Never force her to interact if she does not want to but allow her to observe on her own terms.

    If you do a search at the top there is a resource list that has reference books dealing with shy dogs. Take a look at that. One I think by Nichole Wilde.

    It is wonderful you are being patient....it is journey with each dog not a destination. Each is an individual and so you must slate out what works best given their personality and stage of development. With the help of kind people and safe dogs/environment you can bring things a long way.

    Snf


    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2011-11-04 11:32:40
  • zoezoezoezoe
    Posts: 110
    I would love to take her to a class but I'm just thinking, if I take her outside to walk to the car she will be highly stressed/anxious, then putting her in the car will add to that anxiety even more. Once we get to the class and an unfamiliar place with "scary" humans she will be scared out of her mind! I feel like that would just be too much "scary" stuff, one thing after another.

    We saw the behaviorist a couple of times but Zoey would never go near her. I mean it took her months to get used to family that she saw every day. I can't afford to have a behaviorist work with her several days a week.

    We also got a foster dog to see if he can help build her confidence to show her everything is okay and she doesn't have to be scared. So far she seems the same but he hasn't been here too long to determine that, plus they aren't exactly getting along so I'm not sure it's been too beneficial.

    I am also doing my own version of nose work to try to build her confidence. She enjoys looking for the treats but overall she's still a fearful dog.

    I love her so much but sometimes I wonder if I can really deal with her or help her for the next 15 years of her life. Maybe I don't have the tools, experience, finances to help her overcome her fears.....
  • @ zoezoe - regarding the other rescue, I would say that there are a few things you need to consider.

    I have two dogs who are adults. One is 2.5 and the other is 4. The younger one is very outgoing and bery confident. She travels a lot with us, either by car or commuter trains and she loves new places and has a high exploratory drive. The older dog is great in familiar places but displays a lot of anxiety in new places and caution with new people and new dogs. He does not act out since he's very polite, but it is clear that his stress levels are pretty high. They're pretty fond of one another (the younger in particular adores the older one) but we got the younger first and got the older one when he was already an adult.

    Having the younger one around in new places goes a long way in diminishing the stress that the older one feels. He clearly feels much better in otherwise stressful situations when she is around. The flipside is that in very high stress situations (like dogparks) she only diminishes his stress slightly, but he pulls her into much more reactive behavior. At a park (and she loves dog parks) if he is with her she spends most of her time seemingly worrying about him. If he displays any warning signs to another she will immediately break off her play with other dogs, rush over to him, and physically get between him and the other dog and display warning signals. Their bond, and his trust in her, as well as her confident nature, can be a real help in improving his fear. On the other hand it has the potential to make her more reactive.

    I'd look really carefully at the temperament of the other puppy, and whether you think the two can bond. If they don't get along it sounds like it may hinder more than help (for both dogs).
  • zoezoezoezoe
    Posts: 110
    Thanks for the comments/encouragement.

    @violet_in_seville - We haven't had the foster for too long so we wanted to give it more time but so far they aren't very good friends. They are picking up some bad habits of each other but so far Freckles, the foster, hasn't helped Zoey too much with her anxiety :(

    Zoey went in for her vet appointment this past weekend and it seems her fear of the vet has gotten worse. She actually peed and had diarrhea while the vet was examining her but it may have been because we asked for a new vet (big, deep voiced male) that scared her even more.

    I asked them to do blood work on her including checking her thyroids and everything came out normal. The vet suggests getting her on Reconcile. Has anyone had experience with Reconcile? From what I've read so far it's for separation anxiety (she doesn't really have this problem). Any experience on this or suggestions of other medication that a fearful dog might be successful on? I really don't want to put her on medication but I'm not sure what else I can do.
  • poltergeistpoltergeist
    Posts: 426
  • RyuDragonRyuDragon
    Posts: 319
    Looking into getting a DAP collar for Ryu since he gets nervous when my dad sneezes and he will be staying with my parents while we go on our honeymoon. I found this available on Amazon, but it was mentioned above that you need to get this from a Vet. Is this the product that people have used: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000HPVH78?pc_redir=1397987139&robot_redir=1
  • INU RYUUINU RYUU
    Posts: 1507
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1106
    @poltergeist, my aunt recently had a situation where her two housecats who were spooked by a visiting tom and ended up fighting with each other. One of the cats was hurt bad enough to need to stay at the vet for 8 days... when she came back home, she was terrified of the other cat, and they would fight whenever they saw each other. My aunt worked with a behaviorist, and tried Prozac for a week, and said it only calmed them for about 20 minutes. They next tried a product containing the amino acid L-Theanine. She said it helped tremendously to calm them, and the cats are now at a level to cohabitate again.

    Some info on theanine:
    http://www.med.nyu.edu/content?ChunkIID=653856
    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/L-Theanine:+a+potential+relaxation+ingredient+for+pets;+an+ingredient...-a099145781

    The product she used is Anxitane by Virbac, which is simply the theanine in a flavored tablet for cats and dogs. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=27387

    The theanine component is trademarked as "Suntheanine," and is the #1 source used in human supplements as well, which are much cheaper.

    Given my aunt's experience, I'm actually considering buying a bulk powder version to add to my Shiba's food for anxiety relief.
  • poltergeistpoltergeist
    Posts: 426
    Post edited by poltergeist at 2014-04-22 04:09:54
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1106
    @poltergeist, lol! I don't know if it's quite a miracle drug, but its calming effect seems to lower the anxiety response in animals, and humans. Seems like a good supplement to use for stressful days at work too. :)

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