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Dog Aggression
  • hondruhondru
    Posts: 529
    Post edited by sunyata at 2013-06-06 15:53:24
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Regarding dog aggression, it's easier for me anyway to prevent a fight before it starts instead of reacting to a fight and having to give lots of corrections. Beebe has problems with other dogs when they get in her space (but not shibas). When she enters anyplace where there are a lot of dogs waiting in a group around the entrance, she tends to make a big noise and her hackles are up but she bolts right thru them and seems to run it off. The bigger problem is at Obedience class when we practice our competition runs which involve many well trained dogs sitting/in down stays for several minutes, or when doing weaving exercises around other dogs. If she is suprised by another dog rounding a bend and suddenly in her face, she lunges and bares teeth. Likewise, her hackles are up and she may unexpectedly lunge while passing a dog comming towards her which is unacceptable behavior in competition and gets us ejected from the ring faster than my head can spin. The solution for me, is to always have her watching me or focus on my eyes or hand instead of the other dogs. She will ignore many more distractions and has developed a greater tolerance threshold by me simply working on her focus so I rarely need to correct her for inappropriate interactions because she is too busy looking at me to focus on other dogs. Follow this with gradual desensitizing, for me, being around lots of dogs in class and at work really helps. Once they reach that threshold and begin to wig out, though, where they are unable to cope effectively with whatever stimulus, then it's too late, so stop what you're doing and take a break. Correcting after the fact I have found is counter-productive and just escalates Beebe even more, and it's negative. I think it's easier to have the dog learn to focus on you, you're not doing any corrections this way, it's positive, and it's more fun than pulling your dogs apart in a fight. Hope this helps.
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    Posts: 3105
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    No, that's a good post. I think Beebe is reactive similar to Jazz and does the growl than lunge, so the focusing exercise is mos def the best training tip for us so far. I have seen many shibas do the same thing when other dogs "invade the bubble". I tried picking Beebe up and holding her once while at the park during an episode I thought was fear/over reaction to a couple of loose dogs that got in her face, (she was beyond soothing at that point but immediately calmed once we left...)
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    Posts: 3105
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    Great post, all!


    Heidi - did you try a muzzle for Rakka? I only ask because I'm considering one for emergencies and desensitization.
  • LJ you bring up a good point about aggressive vs. reactive. A great many Shibas are reactive as are a number of other spitzies. There is no soothing once the tolerance threshold has been tipped.

    The focus exercises are one of the most essential tools that help in keeping a situation from escalating.

    I have one similar to Jazz that grumbles and rumbles at unknown dogs or multiple dogs rushing her.
    However, she is fine with dogs she has gotten to know and have learned to understand her cues.

    Reactiveness and aggression are complex and all items have to be weighed in context of the situation. Some animals are aggressive or reactive with other dogs in differing circumstances .i.e. On leash but not off leash, ok with one dog but not three, fine with multiples but not one type or breed....the list could go on.

    The important thing is gathering some command tools in order to work with the particular issues of each dog. Second is learning the threshold of the dog and then conditioning to extend that. This takes some time and expert input in some cases, particularly since what we humans see up close in proximity to events is perceived very different than what observed far away outside of the event. Dog to dog behavior all happens so fast in a flick or blink of an eye and easily missed. Dog to kid behavior equally as fast. So there is a lot to juggle mentally and physically as owners. So at this point it is really tough to bring in a blueprint as a simple solution set via a forum. Most behaviorists will tell you the same thing. That’s why they don’t advise on line.

    I have found that muzzling is an extreme measure and for Shibas it does not work well. It is one more item that causes reactiveness. Also the muzzles don't really fit that well and usually end up coming off.

    Feisty Fido by Patricia McConnell is a good small book to review. As is feeling outnumbered.

    Snf
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    Posts: 3105
  • hondruhondru
    Posts: 529
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    That's true for scary situations your dog encounters in general. I think that's why a reactive dog on a leash with lots of other dogs around it can be worse because it feels trapped and can't get away or defend itself, like if it was wearing a muzzle so you have to step in and protect him.
  • Post edited by [Deleted User] at 2008-10-28 18:56:28
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2242
  • hondruhondru
    Posts: 529
  • asiaasia
    Posts: 875
    That was extremely informative! Thanks!
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2242
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 2242
    Post edited by BradA1878 at 2008-11-26 17:02:13
  • CrystalWolfCrystalWolf
    Posts: 235
    So i am looking for some advice, and I am not sure what to call the response my dog is giving. Riku loves going to the dog park and gets long with all the dogs there, he will chase the other dogs mostly, sometimes he will lay on his belly and wait for another dog to get close and then pounces on them being a bit vocal, but this is all in play. If the other dog doesnt like him pouncing and he realizes this he backs off and leaves that dog alone.

    However there was this incident with this chocolate lab puppy at the park. Riku my dog is a yr and 3 months and neurtered, the lab is a bit bigger than him but not by much as she is 6 months and spayed. We were already at the park when they got there he ran to greet them and immediatly tried to hump her then as the owner and her dog joing the bigger group of people in the back of the park riku would follow her and growl at her and try to bite her which sometimes he does in play too so i was unsure what he was doing the other dog clearly did not appreciate this or like it so i made him back off and he played with a few other dogs there, sometimes breaking off to follow the lab which i would immediatly redirect him.

    Today it was just us at the park and then the owner of the lab pulled in, with the way riku acted with the pup last time i was unsure how this would go so i pciked him up and waited for them to come in (he was at the fence and jumed on it and did a little growl as they were walking up) the lab walked over not all bouncy or exicted just a normal walk to greet us i set riku down to see how he would do and he immediatly went to get her, i assume to attack her. i pciked him up apolagized for riku being a bully and went to the other fenced in area.

    What is he doing, why is he doing it and can I correct this? He is not a mean dog and I do not want him to be seen this way.
  • I was told NOT to pick up your dog in social situations as it may be seen by other dogs as a sign of weakness.

    Here is what a quick google search uncovered.

    http://www.city-data.com/forum/dogs/587494-people-who-pick-up-their-dogs.html

    http://www.hollywoodonaleash.com/dogparketiquette.html

    =)
  • CrystalWolfCrystalWolf
    Posts: 235
    thanks I will look into those links, I picked him up, so the other dog could enter the park as my dog already seemed ready to jump her, i wanted to stop a scuffle before it happened

    **after reading the links about picking him up i think you misunderstood what was going on. I was the only person there, this was a dog riku had tried to bully before so i was sitting ona bench and put him on the bench next to me to allow the other dog to enter**
    Post edited by CrystalWolf at 2014-05-29 13:07:44
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Crystalwolf

    I agree with Banjo, don't pick up your dogs in those situations. As per what you wrote

    "i set riku down to see how he would do and he immediatly went to get her, i assume to attack her. i pciked him up apolagized for riku being a bully and went to the other fenced in area."

    Don't pick up your dog to go on the other side. I never pick up my dogs at the dog park. I usually 1) get between them and the other dog. 2) walk the other direction and recall them or 3) leash them up to walk over to the other side.

    Some dogs get triggered if they get picked up, and some dogs get triggered when they see other dogs get picked up. So overall, I think that should be avoided.


    Edited to add in response to avoiding trouble:

    Try the following methods to avoid a fight:

    - get your dogs attention
    - make him sit / stay / leave it
    - grab ahold of their leash/collar
    - block your dog from seeing the other dog he's so fixated on
    Post edited by Bootz at 2014-05-29 13:17:14
  • CrystalWolfCrystalWolf
    Posts: 235
    Ok well he was in my lap before they got there. That is still a problem? I only set him down after they entered and grabbed his collar when he went after her.

    That aside I still need my other questions answered. What is he doing why is picking on this one dog and how can I correct it.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @CrystalWolf I would avoid having him in your lap. Some dogs resource guard their owner, which will make them anti social and "aggressive"

    In terms of my experience with dog parks, I think owners should act like Referees. They are there in the shadows and only intervene when the situation calls for it.
  • CrystalWolfCrystalWolf
    Posts: 235
    Ok I see I will not do that. However I really think he would have hurt this dog. What is cause this behavior and how should I make him ok with this dog. With their first encounter on Saturday I thought he was being a bully because she was so passive. But today she was not being passive and wanted to greet him. I know he remembered her from before because of how he acted while they walked up to the gate. Is it something that can't be avoided he just doesn't like her and I should go somewhere else when they enter?

    I was also thinking of asking the owner if she would be open to them going for a walk together?
  • The second option (the joint walking) seems like a good idea!!

    Some dogs just don't like each other. That may be the case here.




  • jennjenn
    Posts: 856
  • CrystalWolfCrystalWolf
    Posts: 235
    Hmm that's to bad. But I can't blame him, but as you have mentioned even as people there are certain people we don't like. And dogs can be the same way I guess.
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1590
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1590

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