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Question about Spay/Neuter
  • Okay, so Miso was REALLY easy with his neuter, no need for an e-collar, didn't care about the wound at all, acted just like himself (even though we kept telling him he needed to limit his activity, shiba's you know, selective hearing).

    Since I have never had a female puppy before (all other dogs were from rescue so they came spayed/neutered) I am coming up with some questions and since I found this forum I know this is a great place to ask.

    1. Miso got neutered at 6 months old, is it the same for females? I know some vet's in MA do it earlier, but is it safe?

    2. How large is the incision site?

    3. How long does it take for recovery? I am planning to take a few days off so I will be home with her after surgery, but how many days? When can she be trusted to be left alone for the 8 hour day?

    Your comments are always welcome, appreciated and passed on! Thank you so much.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    Tsuki was done at 6 months and 1 week of age. She did fine.
    The incision isn't much bigger than a male's, just a small site, but their surgery is more invasive so you have to take care to watch for any infections/licking/etc.
    Recovery is at least a week, just because of the procedure itself, they probably keep her overnight, so there is one day down, and at least 5-6 days where you refrain from letting her do shiba hurdles on the couch, etc.
    Tsuki was 'back to normal' in a day or so, but I still kept her restricted. She didn't bother her incision site at all.
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8584
    Bella was spayed at 6 months, and Nola will be spayed 4 days before 6 months. The incision is about 2 1/2 - 3 inches long (at least with Bella it was, if I am remembering correctly). And Bella did not bother with it much, no e-collar was required. After about a week of keeping her fairly inactive, she was back to normal. The first couple of days I stayed home with her, then we left her to her own devices for a couple of hours at a time. I am very lucky that I am able to come home a couple of times during the day if needed. Of course she had a silly shaved belly for about a month. :)
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • NekopanNekopan
    Posts: 403
    6 months is the traditional age for spay/neuter, but research now is showing that there may be more benefits to doing it earlier. Younger dogs show a faster recovery time. Ask your vet what s/he is more comfortable with doing.

    Here's an article about early age spay/neuter. http://www.chai-online.org/en/companion/overpopulation_sn_early.htm
  • So I went to the vet and they said they absolutely don't do spay/neuter surgeries before 6 months. So Sake's apt. is scheduled for her 6 mo birthday.

    I have heard that there are other vets that will do it at 4 months, but I haven't been to them and my vet did such a great job with Miso. Plus they keep them overnight (it's an emergency hospital too so there are people there 24/7) and make sure they don't have any adverse affects to anesthesia.

    I guess Sake is getting the same 6 mo birthday present as Miso did :P Hopefuly he doesn't spill the beans and tell her it's not all fun and games.
  • my male shiba is 4 months old and im planning for his prcedure. the vet said i coulddo it with or without bloodwork. is the bloodwork necessary?
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2722
    I always thought bloodwork before a surgery was mandatory? If your vet is giving you the option - I would do it. it's only like 30-40 bucks and it will provide information to make sure your pup is healthy to have the surgery.
  • Ditto to Romi's comment.
  • That bloodwork can save your dogs life. Say for instance your dog was heartworm positive. If you did not have the bloodwork done you wouldn't know and your dog would die on the table.
  • ok, thanks for the advice. the spay/neuter clinic charges $55 without bloodwork and $175 with. it sounds like its necessary though.
  • That seems pretty high. Can you find another opinion?
  • I paid $400 for a spay. I was thinking that was the bargain of the century for a non rescue
  • I don't think $175 is high for a spay/neuter, but charging $120 for bloodwork is absurd. I think I paid about that when Lucy had her blood sent out of state to a special lab for a full workup. A simple CBC, etc, that they do before a surgery should be no more than $60.
  • baantonbaanton
    Posts: 933
    We were so naive with Josephine we let her go to about 7-8 months... surprise, she went into heat! We thought it would happen after one year! That's about another month wait because of pre-estrus, and the actual heat and the post-estrus...(never-mind keeping her quarantined from intact males, and any other type and gender of dog who will get all crazy just because of the heat!)... Then the vet will want to make sure all of the female organs have returned to their normal, non-heat size which seems to take quite some time, too. All in all, I think Josephine was about a year or just a little less when she was spayed.

    I would definitely pay for the bloodwork, and some of the so-called extras. Around here we pay about $400 or so, perhaps a bit more for spaying, so the prices you all are quoting sound abundantly reasonable. We did shop around, asking for comprehensive lists of the procedures, meds, etc. and then sought advice of our favorite brother-in-law, the Oregon vet, to make sure we knew what was superfluous and what was necessary for Josephine's health and speedy recovery.

    Seems like she healed really fast, although she stayed overnight at the vet clinic, and was required to be fairly still for a few days afterward. After that, it was as if nothing had happened. I recall her incision was quite long (a large number of stitches) but the healing seem to be quite rapid for her, and no complications with infection, etc.
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2722
    Hmm..that's kind of odd. Bloodwork for both Ninja and Portia was $35.00 - it may be because my vet does the bloodwork in house. I think I paid 450.00 for Portia's spay and 350.00 for Ninja's neuter. Most places over here charge by weight.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Jessica, in the Oregon, Washington and Montana clinics I have worked at, the standard per-op panel ($40) which most vets perform in-house on a vet-test machine does not include a diagnostic test for Heartworm. I would expect that to be a seperate charge as a Snap test ($40), however, maybe in the Southern states and North East or endemic areas it's routine to just view a slide prep to look for the microfilaria so it's included in a pre-op? But I agree, pre-op testing is optional, but can discover things like heritable liver shunts and renal damage. How do they do it in your shelter?"Common sense isn't so common"
  • My shelter is municipal so they do not preform any of the medicals, they simply drop off adopted animals to the same vet I take my dogs to. They don't even vaccinate dogs. Their reasoning being why spend the money on dogs who may not be alive soon. That vet does a full blood work up including heartworm for about $40.

    Actually when I went to take Miko for her spay the woman ahead of me (in her Ralph Lauren purple label suite and Hermes bag, @$12-15k) actually said "just get it done as cheap and fast as possible" I couldn't bite my tongue, I accidentally blurted out, "wow. you make me sick."

    oops.
  • Miso's neuter was approx $300 and that included bloodwork and a heartworm test. I think Sake's will be around $400 including the bloodwork.

    I would always get bloodwork done before, just in case there is something you didn't know about going on with your furbaby.
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    Posts: 3105
    I'll count myself lucky for still living in a "rural" county. Jazz's spay & bloodwork came to $110.
    LJ - owned by Queen Jazz, a Shiba Inu, Atlanta, GA
    CSC_0144
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    Posts: 3433
    If it is a low charge spay/neuter clinic they might be upping the price of blood work to help offset the costs of all the cheap spay and neuters they do.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    See, that's what I don't like :The cheap clinics that charge for otherwise gratus services and try to get basically uninformed clients to do extras they really don't need. Such as: chart fee, new client fee, lab disposal fees, triage fee, ekg monitoring, bandage changes, suture removals, rechecks...Then the hidden costs present in the "estimate" you are told your pet might die if these things aren't done :every vaccine every year regardless of age or health, bi-yearly blood work for a healthy pet, bi-annual vaccination, IV fluid, antibiotics, hospitalization for routine procedures, etc. Anyway, the procedure itself is only a small part of the actual cost, it's the largly un-needed extras in the case of routine spay and neuters that blow the overall charge way out of the water and is unfair to pet owners. It gives people a bad impression of vet hospitals when there are really ethical Vets in practice that don't believe in "get em in the door then rake em over the coals"."Common sense isn't so common"
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6468
    We just payed $45 for a full blood panel/heartworm/etc for Hanzo this morning at a clinic.

    But Brandon is right, a lot of low cost spay/neuter clinics have to offset that cost with other procedures.
  • I know mine is expensive, but I have pet insurance to cover most of it.

    I have pet insurance on both Miso and Sake but I only keep it for the first year, then I just open an ING savings account and put the $$$ I would have paid the insurance company in there. I figure the most costs come in the first year (Puppy shots, spay/neuter), plus you are still getting to know your dog so you don't know their escape habits or "what can I eat today" habits. Miso's is up in March so I will just not renew and start saving money, but since he is an overall healthy boy I don't think he needs the insurance coverage.
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    Posts: 3433
    Better to have low cost spay and neuter places available than nothing at all. The more people that can afford to spay and neuter their pets the better. Not everyone has the means to pay $400 for a spay procedure, but they might still have a dog.
  • We have quite a few low cost spay neuter places in MA.

    My husband is in construction and buit a vets office two years back and knows the owners/vets VERY well and they always take super good care of us and Miso and Sake. They are on the pricey side (probably because they just renovated their offices for $120K) but I feel very confident in their care.

    The low cost clinic's in MA are great, and I actually donate to some of them each christmas (Angell Memorial Animal Hospital, Animal Rescue Leauge of Boston and Hull Seaside Animal Rescue) because they do such great things for animals. Plus I send collars, leads, dishes, etc. to rescue groups that I have been a part of (NorSled Husky Rescue in CA and Tails of the Tundra Husky Rescue in PA).
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Low cost for the animal sake (rescues, memorial hospitals, shelters) I would put in a different category than just plain being cheap and shoddy to the point of bad care but then trying to make money on the back end (certain franchises, vets for less). The services shelters, rescues and memorial hospitals provide can't be mesurred."Common sense isn't so common"
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    Posts: 3105
    We have several low cost places around us, as well - their charge for spay/neuter is $45/55.
    LJ - owned by Queen Jazz, a Shiba Inu, Atlanta, GA
    CSC_0144
  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    Sansa was spayed this past Wednesday at 8 months old. We were going to do it in December but she went into heat a few days before her appointment.

    In regards to the costs people were talking about in this (admittedly old) thread, the pre-spay bloodwork was $108 and the spay itselfs was about $500. Granted we are in New Jersey by New York City so things tend to be pricier around here. Luckily, my girlfriend works at the animal hospital/vet where it was done, so we get 75% off everything (I may have to marry her strictly for this vet discount LOL I'm not giving it up!) so it ended up being $170 for the entire thing, including microchipping. This included Sansa getting the "VIP treatment" since it was an employee's dog: they checked her blood several times more than necessary, gave her extra TLC, and after taking her home on Wednesday night we brought her back Thursday morning for a quick inspection and a bit more pain medications.

    Can anyone fill me in on how quickly your girls recovered from their spays? Sansa has basically been a bump on a log, all she does is lay in her crate or on my bed and sleep. Constantly. She's also been waking up wanting to go to the bathroom at 4 or 5 am, something she never does.

    She also had a bit of an adverse reaction to the anesthesia. She didn't wake up as quickly as would be normal. She was basically out of it until Thursday morning. The doctor said next time she needs to be put under he'll use a slightly different combination of drugs so it won't hit her as hard. Anyway, I feel terrible that she just lays around and seems so unenergetic. I can't wait for her to have her pep back.
  • Wow, that must be one fancy vet lol. When I got Hachiko we lived in Central Jersey, I took her to a vaccination clinic and they gave us a certificate for a free spay the next day lol. Who am I to argue with free? She was 8months old, she was back to normal by the next day.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Arctic I think I spayed Bootz and Jackie around 6 months. The day of the surgery and the day after they just slept all day. Barely touched their food and didn't go to the bathroom. By the 3rd day. It's like nothing happened. Energy and appetite was back but once they squat to pee they realize that area had been sewn!
  • Wow, that must be one fancy vet lol. When I got Hachiko we lived in Central Jersey, I took her to a vaccination clinic and they gave us a certificate for a free spay the next day lol. Who am I to argue with free? She was 8months old, she was back to normal by the next day.



    A spay is major surgery. So I'm of the opinion that the vets that acknowledge that, and are careful are not "fancy" but really just doing what they should be doing--being careful, acknowledging the risks and possible complications of such surgery. Dogs may act like they're back to normal the next day, but it's our job as their guardians to make sure they are taking it easy and don't damage themselves with too much activity after major surgery.

    This is even true of neuters, which is not such an invasive surgery as a spay is. There can be complications after a neuter (I've dealt with it) and that's why the vets should be careful to warn us to really heed their suggestions not to allow too much activity after a neuter (and especially not after a spay).

    @Arctic....since I haven't experienced this myself, I don't really know (my girl was the opposite problem--seemed to have her energy back on day 2 and I needed to still keep her still). But given that she had a bad reaction to the anesthesia, and has had major surgery, I can see why she wouldn't feel good. Is she taking pain meds too or no? That might add to it if she is. If it was just this past weds, that's just a few days, so I'd give her so more time. If it's been a week or so, though, maybe a call to the vet to inquire if this is normal?
  • I didn't mean to offend, I had just never heard of a spay costing so much. Just because a vet is cheap doesn't make them bad tho, the same vet I used for really low cost things is the same vet my parents pay a fortune to use at his private practice location
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1269
    It took quite a few days for Juni to get back to normal but she also reacted to the pain meds and had diarrhoea for nearly a week. Like shibamistress writes no matter if the dog is energetic or not afterwards it is the owner's responsibility to make sure the dog rests as it needs to after major surgery.
    Since we travel a lot by bike she was quite happy sitting in the bicycle basket checking out the world from there instead of running around.
  • I didn't mean to offend, I had just never heard of a spay costing so much. Just because a vet is cheap doesn't make them bad tho, the same vet I used for really low cost things is the same vet my parents pay a fortune to use at his private practice location



    No offense taken, and I agree, a good vet can be inexpensive. I just wanted to stress the fact that a spay is major surgery, and even if the dog appears to be ok, we need to remember that and be careful.
  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    This vet definitely is pricier than other places nearby, but like I said my girlfriend works there so that's not an issue, and I do appreciate the extra amenities. She got internal sutures as well so she doesn't even need to wear a cone, as long as she's not licking it excessively she can be cone-free!

    @shibamistress, yes she is on an anti-inflammatory and pain medication that she's been getting every night. She has two more days left of it. She also had a bit of diarrhea, which I attributed to the meds she's been getting. Appetite is pretty normal though.

    If she doesn't seem more energetic in a few days we will bring her back in. My girlfriend can just bring her in on her way to work.
  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    One thing I forgot to ask: how long can I expect it to take for the hair on her stomach that was shaved to grow back? About half of her underside is shaved down to the skin (which I can imagine feels weird since when we start to walk she always tries to scratch it with her hind legs). Her coat is very thick, so I'm just wondering if I can expect it to grow back to how it was.
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    Holy Cow! Some of your vets are pricey!!! My son now works at the vet we take our pets to so we get a discount, but I'm not sure how much since we haven't had anything done since he started last month. But I think my bill for Kaji's neuter was $102, $75 for the neuter. He told us they charge according to weight.
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
    The hair might take a couple months.. depending on where she is in the cycle of blowing her coat.
    Monkey!
  • Question about spaying:

    My dog is in heat. I read that when they're bleeding (which she started doing a week ago), that is actually the middle of their heat cycle. I have read/heard that you shouldn't get them spayed while they are in heat because it makes the surgery more complicated and it can be more dangerous. So, I just cancelled Kaya's spay appointment which was scheduled for 3/20. When should I reschedule it for? Will the first week of April be too soon?

    Also - when will she be out of heat? I don't think there are any intact males that go to our dog park, but I don't want to take the risk.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Hummingbird, Yeah don't take the risk. Just keep her home until her cycle is over.
    I don't personally have any experience so somebody else can chime in. But I believe the bleeding usually last about a week or a little over a week.
  • ShibaLoveShibaLove
    Posts: 554
    If you tell your vet when she started bleeding they should have a pretty good idea about when they can schedule her for her appointment.

    I'm getting ready to experience this myself. Ember is 6 months and is scheduled this Thursday to be spayed. Fortunately my vet is pretty reasonable and charges somewhere around 175. Here I'd hoping all hours well.
  • @hummingbird - My girl went way early and my breeder (and vet concurred) advised 2 months, but there's the possibility that she'll have a split heat (as mine did). Speak to both breeder and vet.
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8584
    @Hummingbird - Best bet is to talk to your vet and keep her home until you are 100% sure her heat is over.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • Thanks for the advice! I will definitely speak with both the vet and Kaya's breeder.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Heats can last about 3 weeks. I would NOT take her to the dog park during that time. If you must, at least wait a few weeks after the bleeding is stopped and she has had a good bath. Wait about 6 weeks after heat is over before spaying.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • Bump from the dead.

    image
    2008 thread, I see lots of discussion on pricing, blood work etc. When I searched I came here to find out what peoples thoughts are on a late neuter. I see articles suggesting health advantages to waiting 1.5-2 years for neuter.
    What have you shiba folks heard about this?

    I am neither in favor nor against these views- looking for more timeframe examples with my specific breed (shib)

    these articles all suggest a late neuter / spay:
    http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/02/17/dangers-of-early-pet-spaying-or-neutering.aspx

    OUR FAVORITE DOG WHISPERER, I know how much this forum likes mr. SHHH
    http://www.cesarsway.com/askthevet/basicadvice/best-age-to-neuter-or-spay

    A more legidimate AKC-CHFoundation
    http://www.akcchf.org/news-events/news/health-implications-in-early.html

    - - -

    What do ya think? I know the idea is to neuter early so he doesn't go around making little hachi's- but if I can keep his safety on for a year or so more maybe it would be better in the long run with his health ?
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1587
    Here's a interesting blog post by one of my favs. It inlcudes a link to an updated comprehensive review article by Dr Chris Zink. She has some interesting views on waiting until animals are fully developed before neutering.




    http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/the-plot-thickens-spay-neuter-effects-the-health-of-our-dogs


    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
  • Another thread on neutering, including when to do it: http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/5821#Item_37

    I think a later spay/neuter is better IF the dog has owners responsible enough to manage them while they are intact. Around a year or even a 1.5 years for large breeds. I'd still wait til a year for Shibas, but since they are smaller and reach their full size sooner than large breeds, between 6 months to one year is probably ok.
  • dhelsingdhelsing
    Posts: 67
    My vet is recommending a vasectomy or waiting to neuter until at least 1.5 years for our male puppy. He is a tri-paw puppy mill rescue - lost about half of his right front leg shortly after birth. She said that early neutering can result in long, thin limbs and less muscle mass. She thinks Jiro will benefit from more muscle and a stockier build to protect his joints (since his remaining front leg will take a pounding over the years).
  • Last 3 posts very interesting. Good luck with the late neutering, dhels, hope it helps and works out well.
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8584
    @dhelsing - That is great that your vet actually recommended waiting for your new pup to get neutered. I am just kind of curious though to see what the rescue organization (I am assuming SIRA, since that is where Yoshi was rescued) says about waiting that long.

    Although, since I know that you work closely with Shiba rescue that it may be a non-issue since they are familiar with you and how responsible you are with your pets. But I am just curious to know what the rescue's response was when you advised that you (and your vet) seem to think it best for his overall health to wait.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride

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