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Stubborn Behavior
  • Hi everyone so me and Nala are new to this forum so this question might have already been answered at some point. Nala will be 2 this month. So one of the biggest issues i have been having with Nala is that i'll let her outside and she won't come back in for anything. We have a huge back yard all fenced in so when she's outside she is impossible to catch if she decides not to listen and be stubborn. She will run right up to the sliding door and stare in as if she wants to come in and when I go to open the door she sprints away. I know she wants to just play because she runs and grabs one of her toys and brings it up to the door but sometimes i just don't have time to play (before work or if I have to leave). If i use my serious voice she will just drop to the ground and stare at me but when i get close she runs away again. There have been instances where she gives up and lets me get her but 9 times out of 10 she won't let me and she's sat outside for 10 hours before just being stubborn. She's also started barking at noises that she can't see through the wooden fence which she didn't do the entire 1st year we had her. She rarely barked until just this winter so that's another little issue.
    Does anyone have any clue on how I can fix these issues? She loves treats (like every dog) and loves her toys and those most of the time can't even get her to come in. I've contemplated a shock collar but didn't want to have to resort to that because I just don't like the fact of shocking any animal to control their behavior.

    [mod edit: changed category]
    Post edited by sunyata at 2016-03-07 07:35:51
  • KaijuKaiju
    Posts: 23
    My first thought would be to try two things. One, if she wants to play, make it a game. Instead of chasing her, turn and run the other way, enticing her to chase you. Reward her when she "catches" you so she learns coming to you results in good things. If you're playing chase now (with you chasing her) and when you catch her she has to go inside, all she is learning is to associate going inside with the end of playtime.

    If the above doesn't work, my dog would lose the privalage to be off leash, even in a fenced in yard. Perhaps try a long lead, or just walking her outside to potty on a leash. Then set aside time to practice recall in a way that's fun and engaging for her.

    Disclaimer, I am still learning myself. Other members may have more or better info for you, but that's just my 2 cents.
  • pyleapylea
    Posts: 235
    Do you walk her? It sounds like you might just let her run free in your yard, which is good aerobic exercise, but not enough mental stimulation for her. On walks, she will be challenged because she'll have to walk close to you, stop when you stop, see and experience new things, etc. Walking with you and spending time with you will also help her bond more closely with you, which might in turn make her listen to you more.

    Is there any way you could wake up earlier before work and walk her for ~30 minutes? Honestly it sounds like she is understimulated and has no real incentive to listen to you or be indoors.

    Also I wouldn't use a serious voice with her. Why would she want to come to you if you sound upset and are going to end playtime? Listening to you should be a fun thing. For instance, "come" should be said in a happy tone and indicate that she will be getting treats and a decently long/stimulating play session inside. Or say "come," give her a treat, and say "go play" and let her run around outside some more. I do this at the dog park all the time--I call Pylea over and give her tons of praise and rubs, then release her. I use a different command ("let's go" in a happy tone) when we leave the park and she always follows me. Gotta make it fun for your dog to listen to you and follow you.

    I also make a huge effort to have indoors be enticing for my pup. We play and train a lot inside, so she's always happy to come back inside after a walk.

    Lastly, do NOT use a shock collar. It would only make her afraid of you and completely destroy any trust she has in you.
  • Very good tips! I don't walk her much in the winter which could be the reason for this. Now that's it's warming up we do go on walks. I've tried the giving a treat when she comes to me for a while and quit so I will start that again. The shock collar was a last resort type of thing so I will not use one. I figured it would ruin any type of bond that we have like you mentioned.
    Kaiju- I've done the run away thing which usually works but once I run inside she turns around cause she knows I'm ending play time. I'll have to keep trying these suggestions.
    Pylea- I don't know if it's just my shiba but when I pet/rub Nala she hates her hair getting messed up and shakes (like if she was wet). And she does this while wearing her harness too. She just seems like she's very picky about people messing her fur up.
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1235
    No I don't think any Shibas like their fur messed up. Was that in response to the long leash?
    I think you've been given good answers, you need to practise on the recall and take her for walks instead. What other activities do you do with your dog? A young shiba is not the kind of dog who is satisfied with just being let out in the yard. They want a lot more activities than that.
  • LilikoiLilikoi
    Posts: 986
    I agree with the suggestions of walking and making a game to chase you. As for like if you're just letting her out to potty before work, I would either use a lead or on leash if I were crunched for time and needed her to be at easy access. But that's more in the meantime while you're working on recall and reinforcing coming with you inside. @pylea's suggestion about practicing come and not ending playtime is great, I do that a lot with my pup as well. He adores being outside and rarely wants to come back in haha. The fence around our apartment isn't closed so he uses a 50 foot lead. He's pretty dependable on coming as long as there are no major distractions because I often just give him a treat and let him go back to playing.
    Post edited by Lilikoi at 2016-03-07 00:51:34
  • Shibas are mischievous little derps who love doing things on their terms. This is classic Shiba stuff.

    I am not a huge fan of the "chase me" approach to getting your dog to come to you. My pup is way too sharp for that -- he won't get close enough to get caught during a game of that sort, and the minute my weight shifts toward him, he zooms away in the other direction. It also doesn't build a responsive recall, nor can you work up to an immediate recall in case of emergency when you don't want to be starting up a game of chase.

    Number one, make coming in from outside an awesome thing. Reward Nala every single time she comes in from outside. Have a few treats ready and give her lots of praise. Maybe play with her for a few minutes once she comes in the house (tug, fetch, etc.). The more you do it, the more she associates coming inside = good stuff, rather than an end to her freedom and fun.

    Work on recall on a daily basis. Start in the house, with treats. Get her used to responding to a "Come!" command. As above, use an excited, happy voice rather than a stern tone. I do lots of Stay-Come-Repeat with Winston, walking around the house, extending the periods of waiting until called, and making a game out of him zooming over to find me in different rooms. Always a treat, always lots of praise when he comes on command.

    We've had a similar problem with recall at the dog park as you do in the yard, and had trouble catching him to come home after an hour of playtime. I started bringing treats to the dog park, giving him a few while we're walking there and once we arrive -- he's aware that Mom has treats, so it's easier to get his attention. I'll call him ("Winston, come!") periodically during the visit and always give him a treat, making sure he lets me touch around his collar and "catch" him, and then let him go play again. It makes coming to me a positive thing, and not one he automatically associates with going home. Then we get a few more treats as we're walking home. Within a week, Winston's dog park recall was much improved. He still blows me off sometimes when he's keen on a toy or another dog, but it's a lot better and isn't impossible to get him when it's time to leave.

    I'd suggest something similar with the yard -- give Nala a couple treats before you let her outside, practice recall to and from the door with your "Come!" command and let her go play again, then treat and praise a lot when you bring her in. Practice practice practice.
    Post edited by alishaarrr at 2016-04-07 12:01:14
  • Nookie just turned 7 years old and has NEVER been a fan on coming when called even when it's time to go to the dog park and especially LEAVING the dog park when I'm ready to leave. It has to be her idea. I have just learned to accept that she is the Princess.
  • Jadec123Jadec123
    Posts: 14
    I trained Paco to come immediately at the sound of a particular whistle. He always got a super amazing treat when he heard that whistle, so I only used it when it was very important. One day a mockingbird learned my whistle and sang it over and over. Paco was always racing to me during that time! Lol
    Maybe, just maybe you can try a very special treat for only those times. Something Nala never gets at any other time. My shiba was VERY food motivated tho.
  • Mochi920Mochi920
    Posts: 357
    My little girl does this too! She always stares at us when she's outside and brings her toy over to us but as soon as she sees us walking towards her or when we open the sliding door, she zooms off and watches us from afar. If we don't come after her, she comes to us and repeats all over again. I've tried luring her with treats and 8/10 she does come lol it's cute but frustrating sometimes especially when we're short on time and I have places to go! Any suggestions?
  • spacedogsspacedogs
    Posts: 303
    Well I just don't chase. Ever. If either of mine act/react in a way that implies they want me to chase them I walk the other way, or if I'm in the mood I'll run away (usually to a room I can close the door on once they follow). They haven't caught on to the last part of that yet, hope they never do. :D I only use come if I have a high reward treat, and only when necessary, so most of the time they respect it. I'm satisfied with that, I doubt they will ever do anything 100% of the time when asked.
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1235
    Typical shiba behaviour I think. When Juni does this it is usually easier to tell her to sit and to wait and then calmly go to her instead. It doesn't work all the time but a lot more than trying to make her come to me.

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