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Health Issues. Allergies? Mange?
  • Hello, for the past few months Mamoru was been really sick. During December we moved houses and soon after, he developed a flu-like symptoms. At first the vet diagnosed it as a normal cold and they gave us some anti-biotics. After a week, he's not getting better at all. We changed hospitals and the second vet diagnosed him with the canine influenza flu. But by then, it was too late and he developed a secondary infection, Pneumonia. During that time, he was still his old self. Eating, playing, drinking, running and etc. So we started treating his flu and his pneumonia. However, during the end of December we were faced with another problem. This time it was on his skin. He started itching and scratching so bad around his face that his eyelid started bleeding. We went back to the went and he said it was some kind of bacteria, and gave some eye ointment. By this time, his pneumonia and flu were mostly gone ( even tough his blood test was still abnormal, as in high WBC) Another week past and the scratching and hair loss wasnt better and so we took him to another vet, this time to a skin specialist to make sure. At that time, both of his eyes and the hair around his mouth is falling off and getting thinner. So the vet tested him for demodectic mange, but the test were negative and they couldnt find any demodex mites around his eyes. However, since the eye is such a delicate place, and is really hard to get samples of the skin ( Plus, Mamoru is screaming like crazy) the vet diagnose him with demodectic mange because the symptoms are SO similar. The vet gave him Advocate to get rid of the mites. he will have to be on advocate for about 2 months, once every week. During the first week, his intense scratching and itching was decreased but it wasnt 100% gone. He had been on Advocate for 3 weeks, so 3 times but he doesnt seem to have anny big improvements except the fact that he scratches lesser. He still scratches sometimes and the hair around his eyes and mouth are not getting better at all. We went to many vets and they all diagnose him with demodectic mange ( even tough the results were negative). Oh, and Mamoru ONLY has hair loss around his face. NO hair loss on the body at all. That's what made me so confused because I though mange effects the whole body.

    Because Mamoru's Immune System was sooooo low and bad during his fight with pneumonia, all the vets kind of assume that it is mange since mange kind of happens when the immune system is bad.

    Has anybody had this type of problems that the symptom looks like mange but the test are negative?
    Is it possible that they couldnt find the mite because the eyes are very hard to scrap?
    And if it's really mange, how long does it usually takes for it to clear up?

    Also, can allergies have similar symptoms to mange? Hair loss only around the face? Scratching?
    However, Mamoru has no diarrhea or anything like that. Plus, he's has been on the same kibble since he was little.

    Please please give me some suggestions. I am so stressed because his pneumonia is still not 100% clear and now he is developing some skin problems.

    Thankyou and sorry for the long story (T_T)


    I dont know if you could see the pictures but this is want he looks like now. it's really bad..

    img src="photo image2 1_zpsxnkccpi2.jpg" />

    img src="photo image1 1_zpsvl8wtjpo.jpg" />

    We also put the E-collar around him most of the time. ( except for when he plays)
    Post edited by pomandmamoru at 2016-02-06 14:33:11
  • koyukikoyuki
    Posts: 1244
    I think the vets may need to look past mange- maybe a punch biopsy is in order. If his immune system was weakened from his other illness , then there is the possibility that he may have an auto immune disorder (some are progressive rather than acute, and flare up when immunity is low).
    There are a lot of auto immune disorders in Akitas, and in Spitz breeds as a whole so there is a chance.
    There is Sebatious Andentitis, VKH-Like (UDS) syndrome and a few others I am not familiar with.
    UDS /VKH-Like syndrome, first presents in the eyes, and is diagnosed by an opthomologist by testing pressure which eventually causes the retina to detach. The dogs will be sore from the pressure and the eyes become irritated by them scratching. ofcourse I amnit suggesting he has this, but it is one possibility out of many. I would be asking for a biopsy of the affected areas , not looking for mange but looking for mutation. Poor boy!
    Koyuki - red female
    Takeo- cream male
    Kenji- black and tan male
    Suma- sesame female
    Haruki-brindle Japanese Akita Inu
  • Was he treated for the mange yet? Kiba had that demodex or whatever it's called and he is looking a lot better. The eyes may be hard to scratch, but the vet should also scratch in other spots that seem to have hair loss. Kiba had random spots in areas i normally wouldnt have seen because of his super thick winter coat.

    Took a good 6months+ before his eye regrew the hair around his eye.

    December 2015
    photo 20150208_123423-2_zpsunec7vzf.jpg

    January 2016
    photo 12628614_1088966261148274_7444474632974500717_o_zpskk58ozzn.jpg
  • Enzo had demodectic mange around his eye and it took him at least a good two-three months before his hair started growing back but when we too him to the vet, he tested positive for it. His eye area didnt bleed but it looked like someone gave him a black eye.
  • MagMag
    Posts: 31
    what did they treat the mange with and how long did it take to go away and is it really really gone now?
  • MagMag
    Posts: 31
    Miki has mange it took a few scrapes before they found a dead one. she gets ivomec .5 everyday they said for 9 mos. they had the dose wrong so we had about a year of the wrong amount.we also have her on bravetto. said that will help too.we went though the allergy food thing too
  • MagMag
    Posts: 31
    demodectic mange photo Mange face feb27_zpsmpvyloxa.jpg
  • MagMag
    Posts: 31
    this is what Miki looks like with the mange. she rubs the fur off her face on the grass and the top of the stairs :(
  • The symptoms (localized lesion around the eye) are consistent with localized demodicosis. It's odd that your pup would have no mites on a skin scrape; if they scraped down to the point where you see blood (which is necessary for a GOOD skin scrape), you can usually get demodex. Heck, demodex is normally present in small amounts in many dogs. If he was fidgeting/putting up a fight, it may have been hard to get an optimal skin scrape.

    So my understanding of your dog's issues is:

    1) Dog gets flu virus and secondary bacterial infection/pneumonia
    2) During/after treatment, dog develops demodicosis

    This progression kinda makes sense. Viruses in general suppress the immune system, and clinical demodicosis is generally seen with immunosuppressed individuals. Essentially, your immune system is stressed when you're fighting a virus, and many viruses actually suppress the immune system themselves. This is also why you see secondary infections; the bacteria see an opportunity to cause infection and go for it. Same with demodex. Normally it's pretty chill, but when it sees a chance to go wild, it goes.

    My advice would be to communicate your concerns with your vet. If you don't understand a treatment or outcome, ASK! As a vet student, I can tell you from experience people with science backgrounds tend to assume some things are common sense just because we've been exposed to it a lot. Demodex can take time to get rid of, so the length of time you've been dealing with doesn't mean it's not demodex causing the problem. But again, asking them to look again or answer your questions is not wrong.

    When you do ask, make sure to ask for something to alleviate his itching, if possible.
    Post edited by Lrose1990 at 2016-02-29 10:33:31
  • Thankyou for your comments! Mamoru is now better and his hair has come back! Our vet decided to treat him with something called Nexgard. Never heard of it but he said it was really good and effective so we gave it a try! After a week his hair started growing back. Nexgard did really work and it was so fast! Our vet still wasnt sure if it was mange because he had NO other hair loss spots in his body except the eye. But Nexgard sure did made him better! :)

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