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When do Shibas stop needing higher protein? - Orijen --> Acana
  • OrangeOrange
    Posts: 123
    So right now I am feeding Orijen. I am happy with the higher protein levels because I still have puppies (4 & 7 Months old). However I do not want to keep them on a diet with such high protein levels long term. I want to switch to Acana when my pups stop needing the higher protein levels but I am not sure what age to make that. Do I switch around 6 month when height is fairly established, around a year when a lot of the growth drastically slows down, around 18 months when growth plates are fusing, around 2 when everything is pretty much done growing, or around 3 or 4 when energy levels being to even out or lower? Or a completely different age? I am leaning towards 18 months but I wanted to get everyone's opinions.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    You shouldn't be feeding such high protein to a puppy at all. People need to stop and rethink the "more is better" mindset with kibble. If you want protein, feed raw.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • OrangeOrange
    Posts: 123
    I have always understood puppies need higher protein diets than adult dogs? I am not saying you are wrong, but do you have info or a source to a article or something to back this up? I would love to ready about it to help in making my decision. I work at a animal hospital and even our doctors recommended higher protein for puppies.

    We are leaning towards Orijen in the summer and Acana for the winter. We are also doing research on potentially feeding raw.
    Post edited by Orange at 2016-01-17 20:17:08
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1097
    Orange said:

    I work at a animal hospital and even our doctors recommended higher protein for puppies.

    How high though? And what does your breeder say?

    In general, adult dogs need 18-20% protein, and puppies need 25-30%. See a chart on this page - http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659+1661&aid=702

    Shibas aren't large dogs, but too much protein and calcium in puppies can lead to problems in larger breeds -
    Puppies should avoid foods that have a high protein and calcium content, which can trouble the development of the puppy. This may be due to the different rhythm of growth of bones vs. growth of tendons and muscles, leading to strains. Also, the excess of calcium will be deposited on the puppy's bones causing malformations and limping.
    https://www.vetinfo.com/puppy-food-vs-dog-food.html

    However, excess protein is not normally problematic, except in regards to your wallet, as foods higher in protein tend to be more expensive than those containing less protein. Unless specific kidney or gastrointestinal diseases are present, extra protein will simply be broken down and excreted as a normal function of the kidneys.
    http://drjeandoddspethealthresource.tumblr.com/post/52138982741/guest-blog-post-canine-nutritional-essentials

    Couple more related threads here -
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/9734/when-to-switch-from-puppy-food-to-adult-food/p1
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/12886/bun-levels-high-on-raw-diet/p1


    TL;DR If you stick to an "All Life Stages" formula, it will meet the requirements of both dogs and puppies. With too much protein, in the best case your dog will have no side effects and pee out the excess protein. More protein is more expensive, so it's literally money down the drain.
  • OrangeOrange
    Posts: 123
    Thank you for all those links. Especially the last one. I am reading through them all now. My puppy, puppy (4 month old) came from a not so reputable breeder so I have not checked in with her, and my older pup is on the Costco comparison to Orijen. I forgot the brand name, but I have heard through many it is very similar to Orijen, even the breeder said so and recommended Orijen as a compassion. I suppose I should try to figure out the brand and compare nutrient facts, especially protein percentages. If the 25-30 % protein is best, Acana would fill those requirements. At this point I don't mind wasting a little $$$ on the higher protein food, if it means peace of mind. However I want to avoid any damages from the higher protein.
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1097
    I'm assuming the Costco food is Nature's Domain. It is a Diamond Pet Foods product, more similar to other brands from the same manufacturer such as Taste of the Wild and Diamond Naturals. The protein level is 24%. They are generally considered to be economical entry-level grain free options. More foods made by Diamond can be determined by looking at recall lists.

    Acana and Orijen are both made by Champion Petfoods in Canada.

    Here are links to profiles of the brands on dogfoodadvisor. [Disclaimer: Some people find the ratings on this site controversial, as they value protein and meat content highest, but I think the presentation of ingredients and nutrient breakdown in the same format is a valuable tool when comparing foods.]
    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/natures-domain-dog-food/
    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/diamond-naturals-grain-free-dog-food/
    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/taste-of-the-wild-dog-food-dry/
    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/acana-dog-food-grain-free/
    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/orijen-dog-food-adult/

    Here's another site that does thorough reviews, on ingredients and the companies themselves - http://www.reviews.com/dog-food/
    (spoiler - Orijen and Acana are rated highest)
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    You are wanting to do the best and that is great, you have a lucky dog...I think you are probably overthinking things by worrying about changing protein levels based on season...I also worked at a Vet as a Tech/assistant for 15+ years. The dogs eating very high protein kibbles tended to drink lots of water and sometimes developed elevations in liver and kidney enzymes. People also remarked how the urine would burn the grass on very high protein diets (38%+) which makes sense in relation to nitrogen waste products in meat. Even just reading back through the forum, you will come across similar stories as well as dogs having loose stools on Orijen as it is so rich.

    I have fed Orijen puppy, but only to nursing bitches. Higher protein for puppies is fine, but imo Orijen is too high and not needed for Shiba puppies. All of the Shiba breeders I know who have fed it have quickly changed back to 25%-30% protein levels for their puppies. I stick in that protein level range for all of my (5) litters. It's a lot of rocket fuel for a small breed that isn't really out working it off. I think any food that causes an animal to consume excess water and develop organ damage is not really great. I did Acana for years and do raw now with either Wellness puppy, Fromm, Honest Kitchen, etc.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg

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