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Bringing home Shiba number TWO!
  • OrangeOrange
    Posts: 123
    So shortly after bringing Marceline home we came to the conclusion we would be adding a second Shiba to our family in the future. We are like Noahs Ark at home, we have two of everything. We feel like most domesticated pet animals enjoying having at least one of their own around to connect and bond with. When we first got a Shiba we were not sure if our new girl was going to be programed that way. I hear that a lot of Shiba like to be only kids and don't prefer company of others. We Marce loves companship, and we are longing for a second Shiba. Our original goal was to look around for the perfect breeder, get on a wait list and probably have a new addition in a year or two, maybe even longer but definitely after Marcey was all grown up. We were hoping for another female, but didn't care a lot. We have just both connected more closely with female dogs in the past. We were also hoping to adopt or take in a young adult, but we knew that this might not be likely especially with our personality requirements so we where in the mindset of a puppy up to 4 years old. Now color does not matter, but we dreamed of a Sesame Shiba. When we got Marceline, I wanted a Sesame but knew how uncommon a true Sesame was and also knew I would end up with whatever color had the right personality.

    Well only a few hours into our search I made contact with a breeder. She oddly happens to have a 7 month old available, she hadn't even mentioned her on her website yet. She has a dream of a personality, loves people, kids and dogs. She is very outgoing and friendly, she sounds very much like Marcey. Here is the crazy kicker she is a Sesame. So that's like our "dream" checklist, older puppy, female, sesame, dream personality. She will also come spayed, and vaccinated! Bonus! She was going to be a show dog, however her bite ended up being a tad bit off. So she has had extensive testing and would be coming from a breeder of merit. I have looked up the breeder online and here by her kennel name and her name. I only get positive feedback. She is reputable and shows her dogs. She is somewhat local, only a day's drive away. She also welcomed me to come meet her at a local dog show!

    This was a little sooner than expected, but we are feeling like it was meant to be. It might even be easier to raise two young dogs together.

    [mod edit: changed category]
    Post edited by sunyata at 2016-01-07 07:40:48
  • I would do some research on adopting two puppies at the same time.

    Training and socialization takes a lot of time and commitment and even though it seems like it might be easier to just try to do both at once, it might be a lot of work. There's also sibling syndrome depending on how close your pups are in age to think about. I've also heard about it referenced as super bonding. Your dogs might become best friends (as they are growing up together), but then you as the owner might become the secondary relationship--depending on what you want out of your relationship with your dog, that can be super frustrating. Also if your first pup isn't well adjusted to their new home and in a set routine, it can stress your pup out to bring home another dog.

    You could be making things extremely unmanageable for yourself.

    Also, what if your dogs don't get along, are you prepared and ready to have them separated all the time in the house?

    Edit: Even if they do get along, it's advised to crate them separately, train them separately, play with them separately, socialize them separately (so two different puppy classes on two different days). That's a lot.

    I would take this time to do a lot of thinking and planning to make sure that this is a good idea. Not that I myself don't dream of having another shiba myself, but after having Ham for a year, looking back, there's no way I would have two puppies at the same time, shiba or not. I will be waiting till Ham is 3 or 4 years old before I even attempt to add another addition to the family.
    Post edited by Justifiedgaines at 2016-01-06 13:17:35
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1253
    I really hope it works out for you. But I too have to be a bit negative. I see this a lot on this forum, new shiba puppy owners who express surprise that their puppy is sociable and friendly when they have heard Shibas are not supposed to be.
    But healthy shiba puppies are happy friendly and outgoing just like any other puppy. It is when they mature in to adults that many of them become more selective with what dogs and humans that they like.

    And two Shibas at the same age and sex can be quite difficult to manage to get along.

    My breeder and several others I know have had to place females in other families because they just can't get along with the other females in the pack even though they grew up with them.
  • OrangeOrange
    Posts: 123
    We talked quite extensively with the breeder and she was quite detailed in her line of questioning about our Shiba and she was quite detailed in explaining every aspect of her dog. I do have the space and a proper set up to accommodate two Shibas separately. However it is not something I would want to do forever. It is something we plan on doing already for feeding and crating at night if it becomes required. I was thinking the best time to introduce would be now in case they do develop specific dog intolerance. It seems Shibas who have specific dog intolerance do much better with their own pack. We have already started Marcey in training and will do so with our new girl once we have her. Hopefully any signs will be obvious early on and we will be able to adress a behavioral trainer early on, however if/when indifferences do occur we are prepared to work through them no matter what

    Although we are newer to Japanese dog breeds, and Marcey is one of our first very own puppies. We have fostered for a local rescue for over 10 years and have raised many puppies together some into adult age due to difficulties find proper homes. We feel prepared for two puppies. I also work at a animal hospital and feel prepared for double the expense and have the avaiablty to take them both to work with me, either together or in separate areas/turn taking.

    We are very flexible and adjustable. I had the breeder explain her dogs personality to me before I told her specifically what we were looking for. Although she probably already had a idea. However she seemed very protective and picky over her. It is obvious she was very attached

    I do feel like this is happening quite a bit faster than expected, however we are fully prepared and we wouldn't be doing this so quickly is if this situation didn't feel like it was absolutely 100% made to be. I belive in fate and the way this has lined up just seems amazingly perfect, meant to be.
    Post edited by Orange at 2016-01-06 14:08:53
  • NikkitineNikkitine
    Posts: 776
    To echo what others have said, please please think long and hard on this decision. Marce is only a few months old and you really need to be focused 110% on her and her only right now. Adding another young puppy into the mix will only split your attention and make training harder. You already have other household pets to keep her company. Shibas are well known to get more dog intolerant of others when they mature, even against other household dogs. You cannot truly know what their personality is going to be like until they're at least 2 years old. They can literally flip personalities in a matter of weeks. Many members here also had social, friendly, outgoing puppies until they matured more and started displaying reactivity, snarkiness, and intolerance toward others.

    Females, from my experience, are more inclined to battle it to the death and hold some nasty grudges. Some members here need to permanently separate their dogs for the rest of their lives because they will fight each and every time. Others have had to ultimately rehome them due to the stress.

    Don't fall into the "two Shiba puppies is easier than one" trap, because it never is. You might think they would learn off each other and keep each other company. But the same can be said where one distracts the other, learns bad behavior from the other, resource guards towards another. Are you truly prepared to cover all the bases in the future if they decide they don't like each other later? You now know that Marce is from a less than reputable background, so it's even more apparent that you need to be that much more attentive to her training and socialization needs when she's young.

    You have nothing to lose but everything to gain by just waiting until Marce has truly grown up and her personality is stable enough for another Shiba. You are probably thinking that it's meant to be and another chance won't come up again in the future, but trust that it does. Don't be too hasty in your decision and think about what is most fair for your family and for Marce.
    image
  • NikkitineNikkitine
    Posts: 776
    Whoops posted before I read your latest post. It looks like you're already pretty set on getting the sesame girl and
    truly believe you're prepared for everything so I can only wish you the very best of luck with the two!
    image
  • OrangeOrange
    Posts: 123
    Thank you for all the advice. I am here to look for it. I am not usually an impulsive person and this is happening so quickly I do want her hear everyone's opinions and advice. :)
  • @orange Is the breeder Darryl or Tamara from Kari-On?
  • koyukikoyuki
    Posts: 1244
    My two cents .
    Shibas are unlike ANY other dog breed... I see so many new members really impressed with how their Shiba puppy is soo friendly, sociable, trainable etc... Not that it doesn't exist- but that fun puppy stage does change and it is HARD to manage multiple Shibas.
    Let me tell you from personal experience.
    Our first two Shibas we got at the same time at 8 weeks old, they were great , to me they were not like how everyone here described their Shibas. They had their first major fight (ending up in vet bills) at 5 months old...
    They were GREAT with all other dogs and people, well socialised and trained.
    Now, while they get along with eachother still, they are PERMANANTLY and COMPLETELY (not even able to sniff) separated from our other dogs.for us this is manageable, we have experience and our dogs are happier for it. They even are seperated from eachother alot of the time or they will still fight, if they have another proper fight I know they will never be able to be with eachother again.
    Like I said though, we can manage this. We have a great system in place that works for us and our dogs, our dogs are happy.
    But you have said you are not willing to permanantly seperate the two... Sometimes it does not matter how much training or specialised work with a behaviourist you have for them, they may still get to a point that they never can be together. It might not be straight away and it might happen in a couple of years, but you need to really really think about the fact that Shibas are primitive breeds- we cannot force them or train them to get along with all dogs and when they do fight it can be very serious. We have put alot of work into our yard (we live in Australia and have a decent size back yard fully fenced in, no access from streets etc), where we have built 6 individual runs including two with indoor runs into our new shed that, the dogs do not live in these , but they are a great tool to be a able to seperate all dogs and give them their own place to eat and sleep etc. we also have sacrificed our very large kitchen/dining/family area for the use of seperating the dogs.
    I know you are set on this and won't change your mind,but please do not let yourself get sucked into the false sense of security that comes with Shiba puppies.
    Koyuki - red female
    Takeo- cream male
    Kenji- black and tan male
    Suma- sesame female
    Haruki-brindle Japanese Akita Inu
  • OrangeOrange
    Posts: 123
    While I do appreciate everyones opinions and thoughts, I do have the be honest that this is a decision that we have made. I didn't mean to come across potentially uncommitted or wishy washy. Although we do not have her yet, arrangements have been made for her flight. Even thought the breeder is only probably 18 hours away. We dicided this might be the easiest option all around. Or waiting and meeting her later at a more local show. I suppose I was looking for advice from people who have multiple Shiba's or who have raised two together. I was also just coming her eto announce and talk about the new addition.

    If there arose a situation were they could not live together, we would accommodate. I am not unwilling, but I have to admit it is not ideal or something I am hoping for. When we are home I really want the Shibas to be able to free range and when we are out I would love for them both to be able to join us for hikes and activities. However once we have committed to a new addition, we will do eveverything in our power to keep that addition in our home. Pets are family members.
  • koyukikoyuki
    Posts: 1244
    I'm glad you are willing to put the work in, so many aren't.
    Ok advice from someone with 5 Shibas and a Japanese Akita Inu.
    - feed seperarely at all times no exceptions (it's not worth it believe me)
    - seperate training , socialisation and one on one time with you
    - consistenty in training and socialisation with both dogs
    - when first bringing her home allow them ALOT of time to get used to eachother-don't force interactions, they both need to be comfortable. This at take time (when Akemi came to us at 8 weeks old, kenji and Haruki took to her within a few days, but it was a couple of weeks if not longer until Suma didn't snark at her- they were all seperated except for short play times for atleast the first month
    - don't have the same expectations on each one as to what they will tolerate, some Shibas are more tolerant than others. For example, Kenji is fab with puppies, but now they are all older he gets over stimulayed very quickly and we need to intervene as the others will not put up with his BS.
    - recognise their triggers and their individual body language when they are stressed/uncomfortable. Eh- with Koyuki, if she suddenly goes quiet and starts staring at Takeo we seperate immediately, or they will fight even if Takeo is oblivious that she all of a sudden has had enough.
    With Haruki, she removes herself, so we ensure that she has alone time away from the crazy Shibas.
    Kenji will appear to get more excited and play harder but watching him , his muscles are very tight- there is no looseness through his body and he needs a few minutes to wind down.
    There will always be signals,sometimes obvious, sometimes not.
    -make sure your family/friends respect that they may need space and when they are not little puppies anymore they won't be as interested in entertaining everyone with their cuteness.. I think sometimes people get excited when they see two Shibas together and expect them to play etc, sometimes you will need to put your foot down and keep them apart for alone time or what not.

    These are all pretty basic and obvious, but sometimes it's helpful to hear from others that have danced the dance before
    Koyuki - red female
    Takeo- cream male
    Kenji- black and tan male
    Suma- sesame female
    Haruki-brindle Japanese Akita Inu
  • MojoMojo
    Posts: 77
    I wish you all the very best! With such a big family it is surely to be a ton of work however if you guys are really dedicated, I think you can do it. I know you said you will try your very best to keep the addition to your home but also try to keep your heart open enough to realize if it gets to be too much that re-homing may be the best option. Good luck, Orange, Marce, and Twin Wolf Hunters(I know they probably aren't twins but I couldn't help myself...)
  • I wish you the best! I have two Shibas, a Corgi and 4 cats. So my home is a zoo/Noah's Ark as well. IT IS TOUGH! Shiba's are.. tough when there is more than 1. But I have hope it will work for you. :) please post photos when you have them. :)
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8456
    @Orange - While you have obviously already made up your mind, I want to point out something that no one else has at the moment...

    You have had your current Shiba for a month. This is NOT enough time to build a bond with this puppy. By bringing in another puppy, you are going to create a situation where the first puppy will bond more strongly with the second puppy instead of with you.

    I really think it is a bad idea to bring in another puppy so soon after bringing home the first (even if the second is older). There are so many things that you will be missing out on with BOTH puppies because your attention is divided.

    And the issue with the dogs not getting along as they mature is a pretty big risk. Especially since your first pup came from less than reputable sources. It is always advisable to wait to see how the dog matures before bringing in a second dog. Shiba bitch fights are no joke and can be incredibly costly (in more ways than one).
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • koyukikoyuki
    Posts: 1244
    Orange said:

    While I do appreciate everyones opinions and thoughts, I do have the be honest that this is a decision that we have made. I didn't mean to come across potentially uncommitted or wishy washy.

    However once we have committed to a new addition, we will do eveverything in our power to keep that addition in our home. Pets are family members.



    PETS ARE FAMILY MEMBERS
    IN HER OWN WORDS pfft
    Koyuki - red female
    Takeo- cream male
    Kenji- black and tan male
    Suma- sesame female
    Haruki-brindle Japanese Akita Inu
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    This one is being advertised on Craigslist now, after adding a third puppy (Klee Kai)
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8456
    Saw this coming... So sad for the pup. And it is really annoying that she is misrepresenting the "breeder". She needs to tell the truth about the puppy's origins to whomever buys the puppy from her (or the rescue if she is convinced to actually surrender the dog to a rescue, instead of trying to make money on a sale), especially if there are behaviour/health issues.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1253
    I may have missed it, but I can't see anywhere that they have gotten a Klee Kai, the ad only mentioned that she looks like one.
  • DoGoatDoGoat
    Posts: 28
    @Juni

    She posted on FB about getting an AKK puppy.
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1253
    Ah ok.
  • koyukikoyuki
    Posts: 1244
    Ha.. Apparently it's a ' fake ad' . Gutless .
    Koyuki - red female
    Takeo- cream male
    Kenji- black and tan male
    Suma- sesame female
    Haruki-brindle Japanese Akita Inu

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