For all new members, please check out the thread New to the Forum? What to do and forum guidelines.
growling and biting when tired.
  • sakurasakisakurasaki
    Posts: 43
    Hi everyone,

    Just about a month ago, we realized Akuma (5-months old) started to growl and even bite us if we want to pick him up when he's falling asleep/tired, apart from that he's a 100% good boy. This become a big problem because I'm literally a bit scared if I need to put him to bed. I can understand that puppies will get grumpy when they are tired and do not want to be disturbed, but is there anyway that we can work around this? I'm worried this will turn into later aggression.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    This is pretty typical of tired puppies at this stage, especially as it is around teething time. Shove a toy in his mouth when you pick him up or lure him where you want him to go with a treat or toy and avoid picking up altogether. Or, you can have a nightly "battle" and teach him no bite, but there are easier ways to do it when he is not grumpy :)
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • sakurasakisakurasaki
    Posts: 43
    Yeah lindsyat, I currently am luring him with his favourite treat to go to bed. I just don't want him to develop a habit to growl whenever we try to pick him up.
  • Romeo does this a lot, and he is suuuper grumpy when trying to wake him up in the morning. We just try and offer treats, or if its in the morning his breakfast almost always gets him up without a fit! He's going through his teethin stage, too, so that's probably why
    Owner at Foxtrot Creative Studio. Dog mom to Romeo.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3450
    Jackie (my shih tzu mix) does this when she's tired. I usually don't bother her and let her be, but if she's sleeping in the middle of my bed, its unavoidable. I usually just move her, she would growl and sometimes bare teeth but I go "ah ah!" and she stops then lets me move her to the side of the bed while i crawl into bed. I can't use treats or toys to lure her because she'll just become alert/awake and not go back to sleep.

    :)
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    Ditto with @Bootz. Sagan does the same exact thing.
    image
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
  • sakurasakisakurasaki
    Posts: 43
    Thanks for everyone's sharing, anyway, we are taking kooms to behavourial training, so I probably will mention that behaviour to the trainer and see what we can do from there. But it's good to know Akuma is not the only one who's being grumpy here! He has been very submissive at home, likes to lick me face, likes to roll on his back and let us scratch his belly. The grumpy behaviour really bugs me.
  • kiba888kiba888
    Posts: 144
    Hope it works out, I guess I got lucky with Kiba, he doesn't growl but he'll refuse to move. If i try to pick him up he gets all linguini on me
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    He has been very submissive at home, likes to lick me face, likes to roll on his back and let us scratch his belly.



    That's... not really "submissive" behavior, that's more like, "I trust you!" behavior.
    image
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
  • fisticuffsfisticuffs
    Posts: 148
    Kiri doesn't bite me when she's tired, but she seems restless and lays near me growling loudly and rolling around on the floor. If I don't give her my attention, it turns into barking and pawing at me. Petting her and turning on her heating pad (she recognizes the sound of the buttons and comes running) makes her stop and go to sleep.
    I have noticed she gets this same way if I don't take a nap with her in the afternoon. She used to just behave badly - pulling on the curtains (something she never does otherwise), attacking my feet, opening all the cupboards and drawers in the kitchen and leaving them open (she knows she's supposed to close them when she gets into them). I ignored her bad behavior a couple days in a row, so now she will climb on me and rub her whole body on me growling and whining until I get up and go in the bedroom. I can be on my phone or watch TV, but if I take out the laptop, it starts all over again.
    I have never in my life seen a dog act like a three year old when it's tired until Kiri, lol.
  • omgtainomgtain
    Posts: 68
    I'd stop saying that hes biting you. He's mouthing you.
    If you know picking him up while hes tired will get him to growl and mouth you (and Shibas are vocal), then don't do it. Put him in his crate before he gets to that point.
    I don't think you really need behavioral training for this ? If you stress and worry about it, it'll get worse because he'll feed off your energy. Hes just a puppy.
    image
  • sakurasakisakurasaki
    Posts: 43
    omgtain said:

    I'd stop saying that hes biting you. He's mouthing you.
    If you know picking him up while hes tired will get him to growl and mouth you (and Shibas are vocal), then don't do it. Put him in his crate before he gets to that point.
    I don't think you really need behavioral training for this ? If you stress and worry about it, it'll get worse because he'll feed off your energy. Hes just a puppy.



    Hi omgtain, in terms of behavioral training, it is just though puppy obedience school, it's not something serious or anything. I will try not to worry, I understand Shiba's are special and vocal, but when everyone is telling you you shouldn't let you puppy do this and that, you will somehow be stressed.

    I guess everyone is different but after all we just want the best for our shiba pups.
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8254
    @sakurasaki - Let me explain it to you this way... If after a long day of work, you lay down on the couch to relax and maybe take a nap, and some rude person comes and jostles you or even worse, makes you get up, will you be upset or will you welcome them with open arms?

    Most every person I know would be annoyed at the minimum and probably pretty angry at the maximum. Dogs have feelings, too and should not be regarded as robots who follow our every command and whim. Remember that growling is one of the only forms of communication that dogs have with people. So while as a person you can tell someone to bugger off and leave you be so you can relax, a dog can only growl at you. If the offender keeps pestering you, you will probably escalate your response and maybe even swat them away. The same happens for the dog, if you continue to bug him, he may escalate his response to a nip.

    The best suggestion I have is to not bother your pup when he is relaxing except in dire emergencies. If you need him to move, verbally wake him up and ask him to move with the appropriate command and reward.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
    @sunyata is right, the best way to deter this particular behavior is to avoid them from occurring. It may require a big change, you may have to ensure that your Shiba goes in the crate when he wants to sleep.

    Kira does something a little similar, she has started to bark at the cats when they get too close to her as she sleeps. If she is on the floor sleeping, it has allowed the cats to learn to avoid getting too close to her if they want to walk past her.

    This behavior also happens in the bed which was problematic because the cats have always slept in our bed. I ultimately decided to have her stay in the playpen with a bed in it next to my side of the bed at nights. It's not preferred for me, but she seems more relaxed having her own space.
    Cynthia, Proudly owned by Kira
    imageimage
    Kira the Cream Shiba Inu 吉良 - Facebook Page
    Follow Kira on Instagram! Kira_the_cream_shiba_inu
    Kira's Life Story & Photo Thread - Chronicles of Kira

    “Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.”
  • youtube the "go to place" command.
    If you are crate training him, use the command "go home".
    Here is how I started with Hayden & Kale.
    Kneel / sit outside of the cage, point to the door and "Go home".
    The first 3-4 times they go in, "jackpot" them. Tell them good boy, good girl!!!
    (if you have them on a release que, don't treat them until after you have opened the door and released them).
    repeat EVERY night, and ANY time you want them to go to the cage. be sure to treat, and give lots of praise!!!!!
    Eventually, try adding some distance, but keep it where the dog can SEE their 'place'.
    For example: I took Hayden and Kale to the other side of the living room (using our couch as a divider).
    after much success with that, start giving the command from tother rooms.
    Eventually, you SHOULD be able to give the command from ANYWHERE, as long as they know where 'home' is'. (Hayden's home has never moved from the day we started training. When commanded, she will now go downstairs, through the kitchen and enter her cage).
    Another smart tip, if you can find a video that teaches you how to add a downstay or a sit stay into it! :)
    this is probably one of the most VALUABLE tricks that I have taught her! lol
    -The behavior however, MAY just be the typical puppy stuff. But hopefully it will be resolved when he figures out that you want him to sleep in the cage. (Try waking him verbally first, and the giving a command to move him).
    Post edited by brandonbombb at 2014-06-03 16:07:09
  • Sorry, major spam!
    But, have you worked on his bite inhabition at all?
    like hand feeding him his food, and pretending that he hurt you?
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
    Kira's crate command is "Go to jail" :))

    She's really good about knowing when to go in, if she sees me walking downstairs with work clothes on, she instantly goes in. Good recommendation on reinstilling the crate command. I ALWAYS treat Kira when she goes in, regardless.
    Cynthia, Proudly owned by Kira
    imageimage
    Kira the Cream Shiba Inu 吉良 - Facebook Page
    Follow Kira on Instagram! Kira_the_cream_shiba_inu
    Kira's Life Story & Photo Thread - Chronicles of Kira

    “Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.”
  • sakurasakisakurasaki
    Posts: 43
    @brandonbombb, yeah we have practiced bite inhabition. He is doing well. So when he tries to bite when he is tired doesn't really hurt me. I still want to eliminate this behaviour though.

  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    I've never had a problem with picking up Kaji or Taisho if they're sleeping. But I don't just grab them. I always talk to them first so they know I am there. Then I pet them, even massage them and if they don't get up themselves, I'll either let them sleep or pick them up. I simply cannot leave them without petting them or kissing their noses. Their usual response is to roll over and show their belly for rubs. So maybe, they are used to it or like it? Sometimes, they will groan, but now growl. Maybe your pup is groaning, kind of like complaining because he's comfortable and doesn't want to get up.
  • Shiba4usShiba4us
    Posts: 14
    I'm so glad this thread is still active....we need help, please! Our 2 yr old Shiba Kenji is completely crate trained and has been since he came home from the breeder to us. He's never been a problem with the crate, he actually lays in there a lot during the day while I'm working at home. Our issue is at night time......if I happen to go lay in bed before my husband, Kenji comes with me. He doesn't stay, as he is fully crate trained, only until my husband comes to make him go "night night". A few months ago, he started to growl really nastily and show teeth when my husband would try to have him get off the bed. Well, now it's not only growling and showing teeth, but he bit my husband hard last night. When this first started happening, we thought it was he way of complaining, but it's becoming more and more frequent, and now he's actually biting (not play biting, either. He's biting hard). He's bitten me before (outside he was into something and when I tried to approach him and steer him away, he tried to bit at me, he's nipped and growled when I try to move him from the bed during the day, when he is in his crate and I try to get a toy/bone out, etc). We are very worried that he's becoming aggressive and don't know what to do. I'm going to contact the breeder today for some advice, but am hoping that you all may be able to shed some light as well. First and foremost, he will not be allowed in the bedrooms any longer. We love our Kenji, but we cannot have an aggressive dog. There are too many children (including our own) in our home. Please help.
    Post edited by Shiba4us at 2016-06-05 07:58:09
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8254
    @Shiba4us - This sounds like classic resource guarding. I would read up on some additional threads here to research some ideas. If things do not get better once you start working with him, I would suggest you connect with a certified veterinary behaviourist to work with both you and your pup.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Who's Online (2)