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Why can't my female Shiba be as nice as a Pit Bull???
  • I tryed to add a new male 11 week old Shiba to my household and my 2.5 year old Shiba hated it. My female grew up with a my brother's 11 year old Rat Terrier and they got along fine. I also have 2 cats so she is capable of sharing. Anyway I gave the puppy to my daughter which has a 4 year old female Pit Bull that is so chill. I only gave my dog and puppy a few days to get along before giving up since it is too cold here to potty train plus other stressors in my life.

    My question is; do I need to give up entirely on the idea of ever getting another dog?
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    Post edited by Rikka at 2014-02-11 11:57:48
  • I live in Minnesota and it's been a horrible winter and have had many house problems because of it. I just couldn't take another stressor. I was wrong to get the Shiba but had put a deposit down. My Shiba can be aggressive sometimes...she failed doggy daycare last spring so I worry about it a lot. I just don't understand why she is that way when she had grown-up with other animals.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    Just because your shiba grew up with other animals doesn't mean she will be ok with other animals.

    This is the number 1 reason why we stress to all Shiba owners to socialize their Shibas. NOT just when they're puppies. But also throughout their lifetime.

    Did you socialize her with other people/animals/dogs during her 2.5 years? Aside from those already in your home?

    I honestly don't consider it socializing if the animals/pet/people live under the same roof as you. :-S

    And i'll have to agree with @Rikka. There are many other Shiba owners in the same weather conditions as you. But they toughed it out and still manage to potty train their Shibas. If you can't potty train your Shiba because of the weather...then you are not ready.
  • Post edited by shibamistress at 2014-02-11 12:53:22
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8589
  • Post edited by iLoveMyShibz at 2014-02-11 13:38:57
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
  • What it comes down to was that I wasn't ready for another dog. And yes maybe never. I was just feeling so bad for my current dog because I am gone for work everyday plus commuting. With this bad winter there hasn't been any socializing going on and I thought she was getting bored or sad, especially since she doesn't have the Rat Terrier around anymore. Then I got the puppy and she got really angry and snarly and nausous even.

    My daughter helped me raise my current dog for a year after college and really misses her so I thought I would give her the puppy and possibly wait to get another dog. I was even thinking maybe I should get an adult dog someday.
  • I thought getting her a playmate would help and I'm just trying to make her happy. Since she can't go to doggy daycare, and is afraid of dog parks, how do I socialize her more?
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1106
    Not all dogs enjoy other canine company. If she doesn't like the dog park, or daycare, why do you think she's lonely?

    Does she have any dog friends? If she does, maybe spend more time visiting them instead of meeting new dogs. New dogs are always a gamble, especially with a reactive dog. And puppies are especially annoying to many dogs! She might prefer human company instead, so you could include her in more of your own social activities. Or seek out new things you could do with her, like doggie sports (agility, rally, barn hunt, nose work, lure coursing, etc) or therapy work.

    As mentioned, we do have threads dedicated to multi-dog management, if you decide to go that route, but it can be a long and slow process. Weeks or months of limited neutral interaction may be required before any breakthroughs happen. And they might never get along. So you need to be prepared for that commitment.

    Some dogs just prefer to be "single" and that's OK! :)
  • I thought this was going to be a post with a humorous story, and was all ready to comment on my best friend's AMAZING pittie who is ten thousand times more friendly to strangers than my shiba, and yet, it is always Kit who people are drawn to leaving poor little Holly in the dust. Sigh. Anyway, obviously I was wrong about the tenor of this discussion.

    That being said, I have to agree with everyone else... I brought a puppy home (with a then 2 year old shiba) in early March of last year, and at the time our yard was not yet fenced. Potty training was not pleasant to say the least. I understand that this winter is worse than last, and yes, I live in WI. Really though, that's neither here nor there.

    It seems like you agree that maybe this wasn't the right time for a new dog. However, it also sounds like you are still mulling the idea over for a possible retry at a later date. IF you do try again... IF, I suggest you rethink your approach. As others have alluded, introductions need to be done properly.
    Post edited by Kit_Keet_ at 2014-02-11 23:16:19
  • ddavidddavid
    Posts: 94
    Some dogs need more loving than others. The secret is passion. (Lot's of time)
    I've had enough dogs to know none of them react the same. For one, a dog must think that you are the alpha dog not only in command but he's safety in a pack. Once he feels you're the alpha he will not only do as you say but expect that you are his provider. I've read a lot about socializing and can't argue against that but that isn't the whole story, a great part is trust. The dog has to trust you, just as people do, or a horse does. And some people just aren't cut out to play the alpha role, that's why we have abused animals. There is no easy answer.
  • knnwangknnwang
    Posts: 645
    Humm. It must be a pigmewolf. ;)
    Post edited by knnwang at 2014-02-11 22:37:55
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
  • @ddavid - based on what you've written in the past I think the term "alpha" is probably not what you want to use. It's a term often used by those who believe in dominance theory and aversive methods. From what I recall those are not methods that you support.

    Here's an interesting thread on it.

    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/6867/let039s-discuss-the-role-of-dominance-in-the-social-hierarchy-training-of-domestic-and-wild-canine-#Item_161
    Post edited by violet_in_seville at 2014-02-12 00:21:16
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Post edited by Saya at 2014-02-12 13:18:32
  • All my dogs fight. It's very stressful to put it mildly. Don't get another dog. I've had this discussion with my husband so many times. We would love to get Saki another shiba but she's just not cut out for it. Sounds like yours isn't either.
  • Thank you everyone for the feedback. I probably won't get another dog as long as my shiba stays happy. She really doesn't seem to mind too much that I work all day. I little resourse guarding with one of the cats but not bad.

    Also, an update about puppy and pit bull; puppy is the pittie's shadow and loves the pittie very much. I definately made the right decision.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
  • ddavidddavid
    Posts: 94
    @"violet_in_seville" "It's a term often used by those who believe in dominance theory and aversive methods. From what I recall those are not methods that you support."

    The word alpha was coined in the 1940's when it was thought alpha was the top dog when wolves fight one another for dominance. In today's time the word alpha has broadened sharply and places less emphasis on fighting strength. It encompasses a lot more, such as being looked-up upon, respect, admiration, honor, integrity and strength. Being the leader requires love between 2 animals. We are animals after all.
    It requires self awareness, we are the caretakers, and certainly require confidence that we are able to supply all the things expected of us by being the alpha. As in a dogs case, mistreating isn't expected in order for a dog to do as we say, but understanding the dogs needs are. The word alpha was always considered to be stronger & mightier which is a great misunderstanding.
    Conquer your fear, after all, all animals in the wild from which Domesticated dogs inherited the instinct, sense fear. And they will inherently play upon your fear.
    An alpha has no fear but precaution. Have you ever approached a dog who growled at you, but you turned and spoke in a higher tone "beautiful doggy" and were able to go on and pet him. You lost your fear, and the dog sensed it. One could write book what alpha really means. It means number 1 in all you do with love, understanding, compassion, to provide, and be the leader.
    As with humans and alpha humans, muscles mean nothing, but the brain does.


    Post edited by ddavid at 2014-02-13 19:30:39
  • @ddavid - how you use the term is much more in line with how the scholar who popularized the term uses it now (he has re-evaluated how wolf pack hierarchy works) but unfortunately, the very outdated notion of dominance and submission and force is prevalent with the vast majority of those using the term. I posted because a lot of folks reflexively react to the term because so many misuse it and was trying to point out that you mean it in a different way than those who misuse it.

    Anyway, since I sadly can't find our threads on dominance and alpha status:

    http://io9.com/why-everything-you-know-about-wolf-packs-is-wrong-502754629

    http://www.davemech.org/news.html

  • ddavidddavid
    Posts: 94
    @shibamistress
    LOL a dog an alpha ? Well in my lifetime I never heard anyone calling a dog an alpha other than in a wild animal pack. How did you come under that impression ? - I would like to see a scholars link. That's a funny new twist - because it takes brains not brawn's which make an alpha under the broadly new interpretation.
    Yet to this very day some breeds react to how wild canines react, the Shiba being one of the most primitive for one, hence I strongly disagree with your theory on interaction. Why do think a dog scratches a carpet before laying down ? That comes from his wild canine heritage. Many types of dogs have not broken away completely from their ancestry.
    I'll drop the subject here because it's verging off course from the original thread.
    @violet_in_seville I agree with you - thanks.
  • knnwangknnwang
    Posts: 645
    Idk.

    Can we replaced the word alpha with bully to further dilute the use of certain ideas?

    @ddavid nice ;) I agree.
  • Post edited by shibamistress at 2014-02-13 23:12:04
  • @shibamistress - I think there is a slight disconnect here. @ddavid definitely doesn't use alpha to mean pack/dominance stuff. If I am correct he uses it to mean resource provider, and sort of the group strategizer, which is much closer to the new findings by D. Mech.

    I think you guys are on a similar page in terms of how you think dogs ought to be treated, but you're attaching different connotations to the terminology which is muddying the issue. I've not been helping despite my efforts.

    Quick summary of my original point: @ddavid - what you mean by alpha becomes unclear because of all the people who misuse the term and the baggage that comes along with them. To avoid being lumped in with the folks who misuse it, I would suggest that you just drop the term since the chance for misinterpretation is high.

    [apologies for my confusing the issue. I've been running a fever the past two nights and am consequently nowhere near as articulate as I would like.]
  • Post edited by shibamistress at 2014-02-13 23:40:13
  • ddavidddavid
    Posts: 94
    @shibamistress
    And yes, knnwang, often when people say their dog is an "alpha," their dog is really just a bully and is rude.... [to trample ideas ?]
    I don't see the connection.

    PS: I think alpha is a lovely words because it encompasses so many good qualities.
    A list of qualities. There are more single words used in the world than in the US which are all encompassing, instead writing a long explanatory sentence. Such as for example "shadenfreude" would require a whole paragraph. And "Gemuetlichkeit" would take several paragraphs. I like "alpha", it's nice & short and with time when used properly the public will pick-up on it. We never stop learning, you know.
    Post edited by ddavid at 2014-02-13 23:58:21
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1269
    This thread is going off topic but I couldn't resist adding some too. I've been trying to read up on wild dogs lately, mainly because every now and then I see or hear comments about " in the wild dogs would do so and so" , so I started thinking, really? How do they know? And what defines a wild dog? So I've read about African Wild dogs and Asean Dholes. There are usually descriptions on alpha pairs, but what they only mean is the pair that gets to breed and that has first access to food. And usually it is simply because the pair is the parents of the rest if the pack. And the youngest puppies always get to eat first too.

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