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"Are you going to breed her?"
  • Have you guys ever been asked this question, and how did you respond ?

    I'm at a complete loss on how to respond to this question.
    Honestly ? Maybe.. if Tavi grows into a really nice Kai and we find a male that compliments her, I'd love to have a litter out of her.

    But a lot of people who ask me this are pretty ignorant.. and its kinda been a big pain in my butt. If I respond yes, then people say "Oh shes so rare you'd get a lot of money for her puppies".. If I try to explain how much all the health testing, training, etc. costs then I lose them. I'd never breed for money and someone assuming so upsets me. I don't mind educating on responsibly breeding, but I don't think any of these people are 'into' dogs that much.

    If I say no then people press on me that shes such a cute and good puppy, I should breed her and make tons of money! That just makes me super uneasy, especially since these people don't know a thing about her, shes 3 months old and they're telling me to breed her..

    I feel like I'm in a 'damned if ya do, damned if ya don't' situation, and its not a question they let me ignore!

    tl;dr: I think too much ? :(
    image
  • koyukikoyuki
    Posts: 1244
    We have been asked the same so many times. People see we have 4 Shibas and automatically assume we will breed them . Unfortunately its accepted here if you have a male and female of the same breed you must breed them, its sad. I tell people i would never breed my Shibas. They ask why not and why have two of each sex if your not going to breed. I say we have 4 because we love them. And its because i love the breed and my dogs so much i would never breed them, that i want to protect them.
    I have had people ask me to have a litter so they can buy a puppy and breed from it to make money. That one nearly made me cry with frustration. I try so hard to educate people but i cant convince everyone unfortunately. People make me mad!
    Koyuki - red female
    Takeo- cream male
    Kenji- black and tan male
    Suma- sesame female
    Haruki-brindle Japanese Akita Inu
  • @omgtain, you are thinking way too much dear. When I was looking to get myself a Shiba puppy, people kept telling me to get a female so that way I could breed her. I just about lost it! I explained that I don't want a puppy for the money he/she can bring me, I want a puppy because I know how amazing I could treat him/her. That's what was so important to me. I wanted something for myself so that I would be less lonely. Something that would make me happy. My Yoshi does that for me! Whoever these people are, please do not let them get to you like this. If they don't respect your decision about not breeding her, then honestly, who really gives a d***?! You want your pup to love and you want to love your pup! You want to spoil her because she deserves that! Puppies aren't just about the money they can make you! Heck no! They are about the happiness, love, and joy that they bring to people. I was also told that if you breed your dog, you tend to lose that "special" bond with them. What kind of pet owner would want to do that?! I am not at all against breeding! Personally, I think it takes a special person/family to breed an animal. If it wasn't for breeders, none of us on this forum would have our amazing furr babies! I don't know if this helped you my dear, but please, be confident when you respond to this type of question. :) In the end, you will have your amazing pup and nobodys opinion will or should matter! Have a wonderful day.

    -♥♥♥-
    photo 6b74d441-46df-4852-af9a-1f765aea9bb0.jpg
    Post edited by iLoveMyShibz at 2013-12-08 16:46:10
  • I just say no and leave it at that. It annoys me too, but most of the people who say that are just people I meet on the street, no need to say more, even if I'm annoyed by it.
  • @shibamistress, WELL SAID!
    photo 6b74d441-46df-4852-af9a-1f765aea9bb0.jpg
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3664
    Unless she's in heat, you could get away with saying that she's spayed. People constantly ask if I'll breed my dogs, shuts them right up when I tell them my pups are fixed.
    image
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    Oh my god, yes, I've received this question so many times -- by strangers, friends, and even family. I received it more when Sagan was an adolescent, but ugh. It's irritating. I actually had a friend beg me to breed Sagan so she could have one of his puppies. I've had strangers come up and ask if I was interested in mating my dog because their female is in heat and they love his look / temperament / whatever. I've heard it all and I've always said no.
    image
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    I guess my Kaji isn't attractive because we've never been asked that. I probably would just laugh and say not unless there's a miracle because he's neutered!
  • RyanRyan
    Posts: 293
    I often get asked, I say "no". That triggers the responding enquiry as to whether they are spayed.
    "Are they spayed?"
    "Not him."
    "Why not? It's irresponsible not to."
    "It's only irresponsible if you don't treat them with the respect they deserve, and cutting her up just so that I don't have to deal with her being a grump twice per year isn't very caring!"

    I normally piss people off with that :)
    Bella (Sherae Aka Akicho) | F | Born 27/1/2012
    Suki (Aust. Ch. Betlin Takaisuki) | M | Born 03/02/2005, adopted 10/09/2012
  • Ryan said:

    I often get asked, I say "no". That triggers the responding enquiry as to whether they are spayed.
    "Are they spayed?"
    "Not him."
    "Why not? It's irresponsible not to."
    "It's only irresponsible if you don't treat them with the respect they deserve, and cutting her up just so that I don't have to deal with her being a grump twice per year isn't very caring!"

    I normally piss people off with that :)



    Well, there are more reasons to spay a female that isn't going to be bred rather than just having to avoid her heats, though given that they take about 6 weeks out of the year, and are a major pain in the ass if you have any male dogs, than for me, that's enough of a good reason.

    But healthwise, there are plenty of good reasons to spay a nonbreeding female (or a breeding female after she has been bred), and the biggest reason is to avoid pyometra, which is lifethreatening, and common in unaltered females.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I get asked the whole you should breed her you would make lots of money! One of my mom or dad's friend from high school said that. Yuck.

    Saya as beautiful as she is she has some type of spinal issue. her xrays at 6months are fine in the hips and knees. There is something up with the spine. I don't know if she was born like this, fell, got stepped on accident or what. She did this before I got her.

    I didn't think to ask the breeder when I gotten her I thought she would grow out of it since the vet seemed to think she would grow out of it.. :\

    I plan to find new vet soon.

    Anyways Saya is not breeding material. This video shows why. It was taken day after I brought her home.. I have video of her on grass same day I brought her home too, but it is bit shorter than this.


    I don't like the whole how people go oh well you'll make lots of money selling the pups..

    If I bred shiba for money then I'd be a horrible breeder. money is not a reason to breed a dog it's a bad one. One should breed because they care for the breed and they did their research and found a good candidate for it and did the proper health testings etc.

    Free dog does not equal free! Still gotta feed it, still have to pick up after it, train it, toys, and so on! Same for breeding health tests cost money, vaccines, food, vet, extra in case of birth complication.

    The mail lady once asked me if I planned to breed Saya as her daughter wants a shiba. Saya really likes the mail lady she always goes up to her car when she comes to drop mail and get pets from her.

    I told her she was spayed and directed her to the shibaclub website for list of breeders and the two local shiba rescues to as an option.

    Some pictures of ways she walks front feet work normally and back she hops with it.
    photo 001_zps634484b7.jpg

    photo 003_zpsc4b9c53c.jpg

    When she walks slowly she walks like normal dog.
    photo aaccpp_zpsf33798f2.jpg

    This is what gets me people telling me I should breed Saya to make money due to her beautiful looks. They see how she walks I've told them it's due to genetic defect, injury or something yet they still feel they should say to me I should breed her.

    I don't get why people feel they need to say such things..
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • @Saya, I just watched the video of your beautiful girl, and I must say that after watching how adorably she walks with that cute little hop of hers, I'd like to smother her with a zillion kissess!!! She is the cutest thing. Not to mention how gorgeous she is all grown up!!! I ignore people to the fullest when they talk about breeding just for the money. It is absolutely SICKENING!!

    -♥♥♥-
    photo 6b74d441-46df-4852-af9a-1f765aea9bb0.jpg
  • RyanRyan
    Posts: 293

    Ryan said:

    I often get asked, I say "no". That triggers the responding enquiry as to whether they are spayed.
    "Are they spayed?"
    "Not him."
    "Why not? It's irresponsible not to."
    "It's only irresponsible if you don't treat them with the respect they deserve, and cutting her up just so that I don't have to deal with her being a grump twice per year isn't very caring!"

    I normally piss people off with that :)



    Well, there are more reasons to spay a female that isn't going to be bred rather than just having to avoid her heats, though given that they take about 6 weeks out of the year, and are a major pain in the ass if you have any male dogs, than for me, that's enough of a good reason.

    But healthwise, there are plenty of good reasons to spay a nonbreeding female (or a breeding female after she has been bred), and the biggest reason is to avoid pyometra, which is lifethreatening, and common in unaltered females.

    There are also a lot of arguements against spaying before 2 years of age, if at all. It is just far easier to find information on why you should as it is encouraged by animal welfare groups in the US.
    I believe in Europe it is far less common to spay your dog.

    Seasons aren't an issue for me, All I have to do is avoid the dog park. I don't live in a built up area, my dogs are under lock and key when i'm not home, I have floorboards and a very clean bitch.

    That said, if anyone else tries to get close to me when she's due, watch out!

    However, I'll be looking at it next year and will speak to many vets, here's some newer reading:

    http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/16_2/features/risks-benefits-spay-neuter-your-dog_20685-1.html?pg=2

    http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/02/17/dangers-of-early-pet-spaying-or-neutering.aspx

    http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/spay_neuter_considerations_2013.pdf

    Scholar: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0055937

    My dogs have access to trails/treks/hikes with me almost every day (I have a knee injury on the mend), I don't want to put their bone and ligament health at risk unnessesarily when right now Bella loves doing 15ml plus on a saturday with me.

    Cheers,

    Ryan
    Bella (Sherae Aka Akicho) | F | Born 27/1/2012
    Suki (Aust. Ch. Betlin Takaisuki) | M | Born 03/02/2005, adopted 10/09/2012
    Post edited by Ryan at 2013-12-10 18:51:18
  • Yes, I'm familiar with the issue, but for a Shiba, I don't see the need to wait longer than one year. (Actually, I only wait one year in my large dogs too).

    I'll see check the links, though, against the ones we already have in the spay/neuter threads, because if they're not linked there, they'd be good additions!
  • RyanRyan
    Posts: 293

    Yes, I'm familiar with the issue, but for a Shiba, I don't see the need to wait longer than one year. (Actually, I only wait one year in my large dogs too).

    I'll see check the links, though, against the ones we already have in the spay/neuter threads, because if they're not linked there, they'd be good additions!



    You have far more dogs than I so I presume the management is more of an issue. For me, the health benefits outweigh it.

    note: My boy is, my bitch isnt.

    Bella (Sherae Aka Akicho) | F | Born 27/1/2012
    Suki (Aust. Ch. Betlin Takaisuki) | M | Born 03/02/2005, adopted 10/09/2012
  • Funnily, most people only ask about our girl who is spayed and while lovely, is not quite to standard (because she's slender and leggy though still proportioned). Occasionally we get asked about her brother (they are full siblings) because he is intact. We have to explain that he is a retired show dog and our contract with our breeder requires us to keep him unaltered. Honestly though, since we're very responsible about making sure no accidents would occcur (as they only would if he escaped) I don't see a good reason to alter him unless i was asked to do so by my breeder. The strong bias towards spay/neuter in the states comes from the absurd number of people who are grossly negligent about watching their unaltered pets.
  • Ryan said:

    Yes, I'm familiar with the issue, but for a Shiba, I don't see the need to wait longer than one year. (Actually, I only wait one year in my large dogs too).

    I'll see check the links, though, against the ones we already have in the spay/neuter threads, because if they're not linked there, they'd be good additions!



    You have far more dogs than I so I presume the management is more of an issue. For me, the health benefits outweigh it.

    note: My boy is, my bitch isnt.



    There is some management issues, presumably, though honestly I haven't gotten to them yet, as my female is so young. But I watched what my friend went through with her intact female, and am not looking forward to it.

    But in Shibas in particular, they have reached their growth by one year, and should have gotten all the growth hormones, so there really isn't a lot of reasons to wait for two years. I could see it more in a large breed, or perhaps giant breed, but even then, most people think one year is safe. I don't think there is much benefit one way or the other to wait two years, especially not in Shibas.

    If I thought another year would make a difference, I'd do it, but I have Akitas, and I haven't read anything to convince me that waiting two years before spaying/neutering is important, though I've read a lot--as I assume you have too!--that waiting a year is good, as you do want them to get through most of their growth. I mean, if anyone wants to wait two years, that's cool too, but I don't think 1 year vs. two years makes much difference, though I can see a whole lot of reasons to wait til one year.

  • RyanRyan
    Posts: 293

    Ryan said:

    Yes, I'm familiar with the issue, but for a Shiba, I don't see the need to wait longer than one year. (Actually, I only wait one year in my large dogs too).

    I'll see check the links, though, against the ones we already have in the spay/neuter threads, because if they're not linked there, they'd be good additions!



    You have far more dogs than I so I presume the management is more of an issue. For me, the health benefits outweigh it.

    note: My boy is, my bitch isnt.



    There is some management issues, presumably, though honestly I haven't gotten to them yet, as my female is so young. But I watched what my friend went through with her intact female, and am not looking forward to it.

    But in Shibas in particular, they have reached their growth by one year, and should have gotten all the growth hormones, so there really isn't a lot of reasons to wait for two years. I could see it more in a large breed, or perhaps giant breed, but even then, most people think one year is safe. I don't think there is much benefit one way or the other to wait two years, especially not in Shibas.

    If I thought another year would make a difference, I'd do it, but I have Akitas, and I haven't read anything to convince me that waiting two years before spaying/neutering is important, though I've read a lot--as I assume you have too!--that waiting a year is good, as you do want them to get through most of their growth. I mean, if anyone wants to wait two years, that's cool too, but I don't think 1 year vs. two years makes much difference, though I can see a whole lot of reasons to wait til one year.



    My understanding is that growth plates are related to hormonal maturity rather than the rate of growth, in a small breed I believe this to be between 18 and 24 months. Was so long ago I read it I can't remember where but it was a research paper.
    Bella (Sherae Aka Akicho) | F | Born 27/1/2012
    Suki (Aust. Ch. Betlin Takaisuki) | M | Born 03/02/2005, adopted 10/09/2012
  • Well, this is a first. I just got an offer via my blog with personal contact info for someone who was interested in breeding their female to my... neutered, un-health tested 9-year-old Shiba whom random person just stumbled across online. *headdesk*

    "She is an amazing pure bred papered and tested medically Shiba. We would be more than willing to give you a pup from her litter if she has more than one. Or compensate you. We are not breeders and will not sell the pups but give to family any extra pups."

    I've never understood the logic of "We are not breeders," but we're breeding our dog...

    ???

    As much as I'd like, I'm not responding.
    image
    Bowdu 寶肚 (Shiba) and Bowpi 寶媲 (Basenji) with M.C.
  • @curlytails: it's best not to respond, but yikes!

    @Ryan....the growth plates close well before 18 months in Shibas. That I know for sure--having been through these discussions many times regarding performance dogs, ages at which dogs can do certain things on the agility course. That's why spaying/neutering before six months causes the dogs to grow larger--the growth plates don't close at the same time without the hormones.

    Link to table of when growth plates close: http://workingpresacanario.yuku.com/topic/2359/Growth-Plate-Closure#.UqtnaGRDtfQ
    Post edited by shibamistress at 2013-12-13 14:59:50
  • @shibamistress, I happen to be very interested on what it takes in order for a Shiba to be known as "show" material in the ring....is there any information you can give me? It's been a thought of mine. I'm honestly not sure where I would start even to get an idea! Sorry, this is WAY off topic. I may need this to be moved to the correct thread??

    If there are any tips or information you could give me, that would be highly appreciated! :):):)

    -♥♥♥-
    photo 6b74d441-46df-4852-af9a-1f765aea9bb0.jpg
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8429
    @iLoveMyShibz - You might want to get with @lindsayt on this. She shows her pups and is extraordinarily knowledgeable about the breed standard.

    In the meantime, check out these threads:
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/11262/forum-game-spot-the-not-revived-breaking-down-the-standard/p1
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/9929/show-quality-puppy#Item_13

    I am not 100% sure if we already have a thread on showing, so you might want to start one. :)
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • THANK YOU @sunyata! :) :)
    photo 6b74d441-46df-4852-af9a-1f765aea9bb0.jpg
  • @zandrame , Thank you! :)
    photo 6b74d441-46df-4852-af9a-1f765aea9bb0.jpg
  • RAM25RAM25
    Posts: 317
    We haven't been able to get Snoz spayed yet because she had a few health issues when it would have been appropriate to get it done. The vet said it might be an idea to wait until after her second heat because we sort of missed the window of opportunity after her first one to get it done at the right time. When people ask me if she's spayed I usually say yes because I'm paranoid and presume they're thinking of stealing her! But she came onto her scond heat again this week and whilst I was taking her for a very early walk (5:50am to avoid other dogs) I bumped into a lady with a bitch (luckily). When I explained Snoz was on heat and we hadn't had her done yet for joint issues blah blah she then asked if I was going to breed from her - right after I'd explained about her joint problems! Of course not! That bewildered me slightly...
  • knnwangknnwang
    Posts: 644
    Pimp your dog? Lol j/k.
  • Just some musings from a former cat breeder...it is *so* easy to misinterpret a written breed standard unless you have a real life example to work from. Things like eye shape, ear set, length of body, or legs... all are subjective. I was amazed at how badly I'd misinterpreted the paragraphs I'd read over and over when I saw the real thing. I've also recently found that while we set out to get a pet, we can clearly see the differences between pet and show quality dogs. Does that make me a Shiba snob? LOL.

    All that being said, we don't yet have our pup but I expect she will be spayed. Not every pedigreed animal is breeder material. The public is ignorant, they mean no harm. No is usually a good enough answer.
  • When I got Quake at twenty eight months old he was still intact because my son had refused to have him neutered. Even the vet in Virginia asked me why did I not breed Quake since she thought he was very healthy, had beautiful markings, very intelligent, and well behaved. Other people also asked me about breeding him and said I could make alot of money. I felt very annoyed. I am glad I had Quake neutered last February. I want to make sure my little boy stays healthy.
  • I got so much crap for neutering my dog. Surgery was monday, have one friend who literally isn't speaking to me because of it, but it's my decision to alter my dog. End of story.

    Whenever someone tells me that my dog has a great temperament/color/whatever, I usually offer to refer them to the breeder I got him from. That usually ends the conversation one way or the other. And if you're not willing to look further than your neighborhood to get your puppy, well...don't get one.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @Kokadrille

    That friend is not a friend if s/he cannot respect your decision.

    You handled it well. Peer pressure should never affect YOUR decisions.
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8429

    I got so much crap for neutering my dog. Surgery was monday, have one friend who literally isn't speaking to me because of it, but it's my decision to alter my dog. End of story.



    Wait... What? No offense, but I think you need better friends. I am curious to know why your 'friend' is affected by YOUR decision to alter YOUR dog.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • In all fairness, as a man, the idea of castrating a living thing is just plain wrong prima facie.

    Some people will look at pros and cons. Some won't. I struggled with whether or not to fix banjo for a long time. In hindsight, I am glad I did, but I know in Europe it's less common.

    To each their own but it is a very cruel sounding practice.
    Post edited by BanjoTheBetaDog at 2014-09-17 13:01:03
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8429
    @BanjoTheBetaDog - If you think neutering is a cruel sounding practice, you obviously have never been around an intact male dog when there was a female in heat nearby.

    De-sexing male animals is an incredibly old practice. In the middle ages, farmers castrated lambs and calves without any anesthesia and often with their teeth (ick!). In many US farms, calves are castrated with rubber bands. THAT is a cruel practice.

    But either way, if the dog is not going to be used for responsible breeding and has sexually matured, it is actually more humane to neuter him, especially if there are intact females nearby (and by nearby, I mean within about 5 miles or so).
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride

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