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Muzzles for Shibas
  • EthosEthos
    Posts: 372
    I am considering getting Akuma a muzzle.
    Akuma gets along with most dogs, but recently he has been growling a lot on other dogs and becomes a bit aggressive.
    Even though he never bitten any dog or human before, I don't want to take a chance of him biting the other dog or their owner.
    are there any disadvantages of using a muzzle for a shiba? any recommendations of what muzzle I should get?
    Thank you
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    Where would you be using this muzzle? The most obvious disadvantage is that you are crippling your dogs ability to defend himself against an attack. This may actually increase his aggression (and what exactly does he do? What are the circumstances?) I would not recommend this, as some changes in how you manage his interactions may be equally effective, without disabling him.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • EthosEthos
    Posts: 372
    Hi lindsayt, thank you for the reply. sometimes the other dog is just trying to play with him and he gets aggressive and starts growling loudly which scares the other dog's owner.
  • INU RYUUINU RYUU
    Posts: 1505
    Is this behavior in reaction to new dogs only or dogs Akuma has had friendly interactions with previously?
    犬竜
  • I've had this problem with Haru before with new dogs. Instead of a muzzle, I use a Halti. It keeps him under better control and he understands that when he is wearing it he had best be on good behavior. He may still growl, but I have control of his head and with a little correction and a "Mind your business!" he tends to redirect back to me or what we are doing. He can still open his mouth and what not, but I think I would recommend that first before a muzzle. :)
  • EthosEthos
    Posts: 372
    just new dogs.. he is friendly with my friends' dogs.. but when he encounters new dogs at a park he can get aggressive with some of them.
    Post edited by Ethos at 2013-11-12 11:19:01
  • EthosEthos
    Posts: 372
    Cupcakedog5683 Thank you, I didn't know it's called Halti but I was considering getting it not the muzzle.
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
    @Ethos, is he growling and showing teeth? Tatonka does a lot of weird "rawr" like noises when he wants to play with another dog, but this growling doesn't have him showing teeth, raised hair on his back, etc.

    Do you think you can teach him a "play nice!" command? Tatonka sometimes doesn't like puppies and does his monkey face (showing teeth) and growling. But my "play nice!" will always interrupt him and he ends up licking the other doggie's face.

    Does Akuma's aggressiveness ever escalate beyond just standing his ground and growling? One difference in my case is that I've noticed even when it escalates, Tatonka does not do anything to actually land a bite. So my perception of the danger of him doing damage isn't there. If Akuma actually seems like he'd get mixed up in something bad, then maybe you do need to take precautions.

    Maybe I can also suggest you do more "controlled environment" socializing with him before ending up with a muzzle. Maybe you just need to go back to basics and treat him like a puppy that needs to learn how to socialize again?

    Edit: Couple more things..

    I've used a special leash with Tatonka before that pinches around his neck. It looks like a thick Kong leash except that instead of a clip at the end, the leash functions like a pinch collar as well. Because it's so thick, there's no pinching per se, but the collar portion is designed to sit right under the jaw (as high up on the neck as possible). So the point of the leash is similar to the "halti", where if I tug on it lightly, Tatonka's head has to come around to face me. So no matter what he may be doing, it is interrupted and instead makes him look at me. I tried a face-halter on Tatonka for the same reason (to make his head go where I want, instead of him being madly distracted and ignoring me when I ask him to stop barking), but Tatonka would never get very far in the face-halter. He'd always try to rub his face on my leg, or try to rip it off with his paws, so all I would have is a crawling dog..

    When I visited some behaviorists for his sep anxiety, we also talked about his tendency to howl at human males (but not at women or kids, etc.). And we briefly discussed the possibility of a muzzle. One trick the behaviorist showed me is to spend considerable time with the muzzle with your dog but not in the context of a muzzle. To get him to get used to the thing, you can put peanut butter (or some other delicious treat) inside it and just have him get used to the thing being on his face. Not advocating a muzzle, but I think if you had to resort to it for your dog's safety, there are things you can do to make sure he's not feeling tortured inside it.

    Also, you didn't mention, are you afraid of on-leash or off-leash aggressiveness? The face-halter thing is only good for on-leash. Off leash, the face halter would be as debilitating as a muzzle, as @lindsayt has suggested.
    Monkey!
    Post edited by tatonka at 2013-11-12 12:10:02
  • INU RYUUINU RYUU
    Posts: 1505
    @ethos

    It's possible that Akuma is just being a mature Shiba and has become intolerant of new dogs. At 18 months my boy INU started to become intolerant of new dogs and rude puppies. It necessitated for me to only take him to the dog park when his friends are there. While he is on leash he is well behaved and introductions to new dogs go well. He has been able to make friends with new dogs and puppies by group walking with them while they are all on leash.
    犬竜
    Post edited by INU RYUU at 2013-11-12 12:21:31
  • MikoMiko
    Posts: 225
    Miko has been exhibiting this same behavior with new dogs at the dog park. He's gotten very moody towards unknown dogs, I just think he is maturing, as he's about to hit the 2yr mark next month. Maybe Akuma is just aging in the typical shiba way, which is to become less tolerant of certain dogs. For Miko, if a new dog is too close or sniffing him too much, he will give out a growl/bark to let the other dog know to keep their distance and I don't particularly see a problem with this, because he is communicating what he wants and it doesn't escalate.

    Although, when there are those pushy/clingy dogs that will not leave him alone, that's when I go over and try to get between and take Miko for a break, I usually sit with him by a bench and block the other dog from getting too close if they decide to follow. I think that in a dog park situation a muzzle might do more harm than good, because Akuma will feel like he can't defend himself if needed.

    When Akuma gets defensive, you can try taking him to another side of the park and let him calm down for a few seconds or you can even leave the park completely, let him calm down and then re-enter and see if his behavior is better.

    Also before I forget, try and teach a really good "leave it". This has worked wonders for me at the dog park. Miko likes to be the referee when little fights break out so he runs towards all the drama. When this happens, I say leave it, Miko will listen(80% of time lol) and not go any further to investigate. This may be able to work in a situation where he's growling at another dog.
  • Some Shibas seem to become less social at12-18 months, based on other threads I've read on this forum.
    I can see using a muzzle at the vet, or some other place you must take your dog, but why muzzle your dog to go to the park? If he's not happy at the park why not just take him someplace with less people? Perhaps you in a crowded city, and the park is your only option?
    I'm guessing you are at the park to socialize your dog. It's hard for me to see how a muzzle can help with successful socialization.
    Growling is a warning. You want your dog to give warnings. You don't want a dog that bites without warning. Not all dogs get along, just like not all people get along. This article explains it better than I can.
    http://www.suzanneclothier.com/the-articles/he-just-wants-say-hi
    If you feel the need for a muzzle perhaps it's time to talk to a behaviorist?
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    @rustyangel

    My thoughts exactly!
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8253
    @Ethos - If I recall correctly, Akuma is closing in on two years of age, right? This is the time that most Shibas become less tolerant of other dogs (as noted by several other members in this thread).

    Even though he may be fine with the dogs that he is already friends with, he may not be so receptive to new dogs. And honestly, this is fine.

    Ethos said:

    I am considering getting Akuma a muzzle.
    Akuma gets along with most dogs, but recently he has been growling a lot on other dogs and becomes a bit aggressive.
    Even though he never bitten any dog or human before, I don't want to take a chance of him biting the other dog or their owner.
    are there any disadvantages of using a muzzle for a shiba? any recommendations of what muzzle I should get?
    Thank you



    I am kind of confused by your questions though. If Akuma is growling because he is uncomfortable with other dogs, this is a GOOD thing. (Please read the following thread: http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/8309#Item_24) You should never punish a dog for growling.

    And what do you mean that he become "a bit aggressive"?

    If he is not comfortable with other dogs and their owners, why not keep him leashed so that he is not required to be near them?

    As for the muzzle (or even the halti), there are TONS of disadvantages to using them when they are not needed. First off, you will have to train Akuma to be tolerant of the device. If he does not like wearing it, he may associate the muzzle with other dogs and become even more reactive. Most muzzles restrict the mouth, which can inhibit breathing, drinking, and the dog's defense. This could also make a dog even more reactive if he feels that he is unable to defend himself. A muzzle also makes other people very wary of your dog, which could lead to some uncomfortable situations for both Akuma AND you.

    My suggestion is to stop taking Akuma to dog parks and just walk him on leash. If he gets worked up when the other dog is farther away, then you will need to work with him to increase his tolerance and threshold. Do this using positive reinforcement, not a muzzle.

    As an owner of a reactive Shiba, it takes a little adjustment, but my dog leads a very normal life without interacting with (most) other dogs. Welcome to the "My Dog is NOT Friendly" club. :)
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • EthosEthos
    Posts: 372
    Wow, you guys are amazing.. thank you all for the replies and the great pieces of advice.

    Akuma is going to turn 2 in February. He is well trained and behaves most of the times. He is 100% leashed when he leaves the house for a walk or to the park. Although I tried many of the techniques you guys mentioned, I noticed that he is becoming less tolerant of new dogs he meets at the parks. he does show teeth and becomes very jumpy. He did scratch my hand once when I tried to restrain him, I don't think he meant to bite or anything, it just happened while he was growling and shaking his head side to side. I don't want that to happen again if another person tried to calm him down.

    Akuma has been my top priority, but I am just trying to be considerate of other dogs and their owners. I will not get a muzzle or a halti though.. seems its not a good idea after all.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    Research leash reactivity. Greetings should be brief, under 3 seconds, no nose to nose, avoided altogether if there are signs of arousal, and when you think about it, is it REALLY that important for him to greet a strange dog while he's on the leash? Why not just ignore them and continue on the walk?
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    Since everyone is on the topic of muzzles, how do you feel about muzzling a dog to cut their nails? My foster needs a nail trim but no one will clip them because she has a bite history and snaps at people. The vet she goes to doesn't really care for her because none of their muzzles stay on her due to her neck size and now baggy skin and they don't want to get bit. The last time she was trimmed, she was put under to get her teeth cleaned so it was perfect. It is time to clip again, but I'm not sure the best way to proceed. I've seen the video on how to desensitize dogs to nail clippings, but I worry about her because she's got a really tough habit to break, and I'm not so sure I can do this without help. She will give me her paw to shake, wash and wipe, but that is the extent of what she will let me do with her paws right now. What's worrisome is she is really starting to trust me. She comes around for pets and hugs several times a day now and doesn't seem to mind me randomly petting her. She's really come around and I feel like we are at the point where we can trim her nails even though she won't like it and she will still forgive and trust me afterwards.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3450
    @amti have you tried a two man team with the nail clipping? One distracts and holds the head while the other clips the nails?

    I really think you should avoid the muzzle if there are other options. But if you really don't feel comfortable and think she will snap then desensitize her to the muzzle before using it to do nail clippings.

    @curlytails desensitize her Bowdu to the muzzle so that he doesn't get tense or frighten while wearing one.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    I would muzzle if she bites for safety. I do use a muzzle on a certain Shiba for nail trims (at least the first few times). After they realize that I won't stop no matter what antics they pull, they do resign themselves to it, and it can be removed. I treat and praise the dogs who don't struggle, some need more treats more frequently than others, and some can wait till it's over. Having two people for a difficult dog is great, and so is the grooming table with arm in case it's just a solo trim.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • EthosEthos
    Posts: 372
    lindsayt said:

    Research leash reactivity. Greetings should be brief, under 3 seconds, no nose to nose, avoided altogether if there are signs of arousal, and when you think about it, is it REALLY that important for him to greet a strange dog while he's on the leash? Why not just ignore them and continue on the walk?



    I will research leash reactivity. Trust me I try to avoid encounters as much as possible. Some other dog owners are curious to pet him and they get closer with their dog and thats mainly when he starts showing some aggression and scares them away.

  • I have one dog who can greet other dogs. The others cannot--they don't want to be around strange dogs and will be very clear about that. I just don't ask them to do it. As others have noted, your dog is likely just getting to be an adult Shiba with sounds like mild reactivity issues, who doesn't really want to meet other dogs. There's no reason to expect him to, and I personally don't see the point of trying to make the dog into something he's not by insisting he learn to greet strange dogs.

    Sometimes, however, getting our head around the idea that our dogs don't need to like other dogs is a bit difficult. We're used to the idea that they must all do polite greetings (which, yes,is nice, but many dogs will not!), and that they should like dog parks, etc, when in fact, many dogs--especially but not exclusively Shibas--aren't good candidate for socializing with unfamiliar dogs. So once we start to let go of those ideas and look at our dogs as they are, we can figure out, better, what is important and how to handle it. So muzzling a dog to have interactions he doesn't want in the first place is probably not a good idea. His growl is saying he is uncomfortable and doesn't enjoy this. The better solution might be to avoid these situation, while also doing some behavior modification so that he can see other dogs from a distance he is comfortable with and remain calm.

    And simply tell people they can't pet him, and that he does not like other dogs. That's what I do with my reactive Shiba. He's fine as long as other dogs don't get close to him, but he will not tolerate a dog close.

  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    Ok, thanks. I was holding her a couple of months ago while my son did the trimming, and she bit me. I knew this was a huge risk but we decided she really needed a trim so we went ahead, which was probably not the brightest thing I have done. I know she felt bad, and given her situation, I can't really blame her. I know she didn't mean to hurt me but she's been snapping, possibly for years, so it was out of habit and fear. She's now at the point where her feet can slip if she's running on the tile so we have to clip them. I was hoping there would be a better alternative than the muzzle, but it is a better option than putting her under.

    Now, what is the best muzzle for a very thick necked dog, or do I need to make one since she's probably an extreme case in neck size? I would even consider buying a muzzle and cutting it up, but need to know the best way to keep one from sliding off her head. She's got very thick fur as well with no neck. Thank you!
  • What about an E-collar for nail trimming? Our vet uses that when Dakota is less then happy there. Would that be any better than a muzzle for temporary protection against a fearful snap?
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6674
    Not sure what is best muzzle for thick neck dog never had to use one.. Dink had thick neck..

    I like basket muzzles as the dog can pant drink water, and stuff, but that might not work for thick neck? I dunno..

    I know of someone on FB who has to use muzzle when taking their dog on trains their dog isn't aggressive from what I know it's just requirement by the train.. They use basket muzzle..

    Not sure how you can work on it.. My dog park experiences are bad ones.. Owners were just too rude and had zero dog sense.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    I don't know if an e collar would help. I'd be afraid it would make her even angrier and more scared. Her mouth would still be available to bite.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    I use a basket muzzle, but that doesn't prevent them from screaming in my ear, so in a pinch I just wrap a leash around their mouth and tie it around their neck just like a muzzle
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8253
    @DianaBoston - Your vet uses an e-collar to trim your dogs nails?! Please PLEASE PLEASE tell me that you mean an elizabethan collar and not an electric shock collar... If you DO mean an electric shock collar, find another vet. Immediately.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • Oh my gosh.. .Of course I mean an Elizabethan collar.. Not an electric shock collar!!
    Our vet is wonderful, but she doesn't want Dakota's head whipping around with teeth bared. Just those big Elizabethan collars for a few minutes to protect herself from the "fury".

    Speaking of real "electric shock" collars, I have friends who use a "Pet Agree" device to send a very awful sound (inaudible to humans) to their dog's ears to correct them. I don't like the idea of that either. I'm assuming it is a very painful shock to a dog's ears when you press the button. Anyone ever hear (excuse the pun) of those?
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6674
    Never heard of that one before. My grandma uses a similar sounding thing, but different name.. Her dog is a nuerotic mess with the no bark collars and sound thing.. :\ She picks the front of her crate once and dropped it because she was barking. Not very high, but still metal crate hitting the floor at any height can be scary!

    I really don't like my grandma she's cruel to her kids and pets..

    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    Oh I am such a doofus because I thought it was an electric collar! Whew! I just couldn't see how that would work. On the other hand the Elizabethan collar might work, but a dog could get to a hand or something moving at just the right time and angle. I'll bring that up with my son since he'll have to do the holding next time. He's used to holding down animals since he works at a vet office, and is considerably stronger than me. We can't distract her with food or treats, and she's much stronger than Kaji. Of course she is twice his weight too. I'll think about the leash method too. It sounds easy enough but with Sheba having all that excess skin and no neck, it might be somewhat of a challenge. The screaming is the least of my worries.
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8253
    @DianaBoston - Phew! Thank goodness. I just about had a heart attack there! I did not figure you would allow someone to do that to your pup, but... You never know.

    The "cone" is actually not a bad idea for nail clipping... @amti, if you guys try it, let me know how it works!
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • The trouble with clipping Dakota's nails -- even with the cone -- is that she bucks and squirms with such an intensity, that they really can't handle her. And, I do not want her to hurt herself throwing herself all over trying to escape their arms. It is really awful to watch. I've taught her the "touch" command and she will paw an object on command. I'm thinking of nailing some sand paper to a board, and having her "touch" the sand paper by pawing at the board. I figure that will sand her nails down a little -- hopefully without touching her paw pads. I just do not know how to deal with nail trims anymore. Last vet visit, the vet was able to dremmel her back nails, but absolutely could not do the front. They are not terribly long, and we always walk on cement and asphalt, but I'd love to have them trimmed. I really am jealous of those of you who can clip their dog's nails without it being some kind of earth-shattering event.
  • Yeah, I thought e-collar was electric collar too! Yikes!

    We muzzle our male Shiba to have his nails trimmed, but the vet does it. They just tie his mouth closed with a piece of gauze. Obviously, they own leave this on briefly, for exams or for nail trims if he is freaking out. Usually we have to either muzzle him or give him a tranquilizer to get him to behave for nail trims. Otherwise he flips out, and sometimes even two people can't quite control him. It's not ideal, but we've tried other things and that didn't work either, and his nails have to be cut sometime and he has to be bathed sometime, so..... :(

    Oh, and the point is that they do the quick tie the muzzle closed thing because it's really hard to find a muzzle that will fit my Shiba boy. His neck is so thick, but then his muzzle isn't,etc.
    Post edited by shibamistress at 2013-11-13 12:51:30
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    How do they keep Toby (right?) from pulling off the gauze? I don't know if I would be comfortable with just gauze. It seems like it would slip off so easily. Sheba's neck is probably just a tad bit smaller than her girth. Most of the weight she lost looks like it came from her front area because she's got sag big time. Here are photos of shiba today so you can see what I mean about her sag. Ignore Kaji in the background. He can't fit through the opening and he's looking at the chickens below.

    Side view- a good amount of the white area under her chin is loose skin.
    photo DSC01007_zpsc431718c.jpg

    Front view- you can see her skin hanging over her harness in the front. Her harness is quite loose since she starts coughing if anything is close to her throat (I suspect she has some damage to her trachea).
    photo DSC01002_zpsb0aa99d5.jpg

    Not a good picture, but you can see the waves in her fur.
    Nov 13 2013 photo DSC00999_zps609f1062.jpg
    Post edited by amti at 2013-11-13 21:08:12
  • I can't really explain what they do, but they make a slip knot out of that kind of long thin gauze you wind around things, and the put it over his muzzle and the tie it behind his ears. It's only for a quick exam or something--not meant to stay on long at all. I know how to do it, but can't explain it well. Not really a suggestion--since you'd have to see it done to be able to replicate it--but just was thinking about all the steps we have to go through to get Toby's nails trimmed or to give him an exam sometimes!

    Yes, he has some of that fat in the front too, but not as much as Sheba I don't think...I love the pic though with Kaji in the background looking down! :)
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know they tied the gauze in the back. That makes sense. I'll see if that might work, and tie it up high, near her ears instead of her neck, where everyone ties things. I told my son to pick up an elizabethian collar if he thought it might work, so we'll see if he remembers. The gauze and the collar together sounds foolproof to me! :)
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    My son said he had an idea so he didn't get the 'e-collar.' Instead, he brought a long fabric strap and used that to close Sheba's mouth and tied it behind her head. Then he held her with her neck around his arm and his head. It is a hold he does at work to keep dogs from biting the vet. I clipped her back legs and she started crying and fighting. The makeshift muzzle came loose so I was afraid she would bite my son and he kept saying she can't as long as he's got her. Then I noticed I clipped a little too far and she was bleeding a tiny bit on one nail. Then I couldn't do it anymore... I'm a wuss. Her nails are so long the quick is so far out I was afraid I'd clip the front ones with her fighting so much. She never bit any of us, but she cried and fought like crazy. I could barely keep her paw in my hand and she moved too much for me to steady it to clip. I do think this way will work, but it has to be with another person who is quick and can hold a fighting paw steady long enough to clip. Anyone want to help? I'm pretty traumatized by it. I gave Sheba a lot of chicken afterwards so she's calmed down and sleeping already.
    Post edited by amti at 2013-11-14 22:25:09
  • Kiba0713Kiba0713
    Posts: 259
    Have you considered a nail file? Its not as fast as a single clip, but I think there's less chance of it hurting, and if its a new tool that may not have scary associations to Sheba and she holds still long enough to learn that it doesnt hurt, maybe she'd tolerate it. And we try to distract Kiba with a treat while we do his nails, one of us will hold on to a treat so he can lick and nibble it but we don't release it till we're done.
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1086
    Dremels work best in my experience. But Kouda is difficult too, so we have a professional do it. But it makes the nails nice and smooth. And he gets cream cheese and bacon for it. :)
  • @amti, that sounds pretty much like what has happened at our house. Toby struggles like crazy, and I can't manage to clip much off, and I'm really a wuss about it. Etc.

    That's why I finally thought, hmm, let's let the vet do it! :)
  • I'm with @shibamistress and @zandrame: Zim isn't really even badly behaved but I'm a wuss and bad at doing nails and so we just have his daycare do it. They even do it for free (they make plenty of money off the fact that he's in daycare everyday, lol).
  • Well, we had a 1/2 way successful dremel experience at the vet the other day. Dakota let the vet dremel her right foot nails and didn't put up too much of a fuss.. However, the left foot. No way!! She fought and bucked and struggled till we all said "enough". The vet managed to get her dew claw and one nail on the left paw done. But that was it. Dakota has never liked her left leg touched and I try to work on that with her with clicker and treats. Sometimes works and sometimes no. However, the biggest success was no muzzle or Elizabethan collar was needed.
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    Yeah, we have a professional do Sagan's as well, heh.
    image
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    Sheba's current vet is Banfield and they won't do it because they don't have a muzzle that will stay on her and because most of their techs are female, they cannot restrain Sheba, who is double the size of a normal shiba. I had Banfield do her nails when I got her because her health contract comes with an annual teeth cleaning so I had the vet do it while she was under. I don't want to put her under unless she has to because she's got too many health issues already. The person who watched Sheba a couple of months said the groomers at Petsmart wouldn't clip them either. When Sheba's contract with Banfield runs out in March, I am going to switch her to my son's vet who I know can handle her.

    I've been thinking of that sandpaper board now...Sheba will shake and let me touch her paws so maybe I'll teach her the touch command and work my way to the board. For anyone who uses that method, how do you teach the dog not to paw so close that the pads are scratched? Or do dogs just know?
  • Bump - Not sure if this is the right thread or not for this, but can anyone recommend a good muzzle that will stay on a Shiba well? I haven't even tried her with one yet, but she is crafty and I have a feeling she could get out of some of the ones I've looked at online. She isn't aggressive at all, I need something that will stop her from eating things she shouldn't when she is out in the yard. Even when we are with her, she will grab something she shouldn't quickly and rush to get it down before we can get it away from her. I want her to be able to run and play, so I don't really want to leash her, but after the $1400+ vet bill the other night we have to do something for her safety and our wallet!

    Edit to add: She responds to the "leave it" command in the house, or pretty much anywhere else really well. Not in the backyard though. She refuses to acknowledge that we've even spoken to her when she has something she highly values in the backyard and it's usually something she has dug up (bugs, worms, acorns etc.) that we don't even know is there until she digs them up.
    Post edited by BestFriendsHave4Feet at 2015-04-17 16:45:34
  • MoxyFruvousMoxyFruvous
    Posts: 375
    @bestFriendsHave4Feet Go to petco.com and type this into the search: "Petco Nylon & Mesh Dog Muzzle" This exact brand is what I have used on Moxy. I can't recall which size though. Most other muzzles don't fit the Shiba face very well. He only wears it when having his ears/eyes checked at the vet (he hates that). The muzzle is very upsetting for most dogs.. so I only use it when doing check ups at the vet.

    What kind of things does she pick up in the yard?? Maybe trying planting a few items in the yard for her to grab, but soak them really good in bitter apple first. Teach her that picking things up in the yard will not taste good. Keep doing it until she stops. That helped with our guys and kitty cookies from the litter box. Not a problem anymore.

    I would worry that if you muzzle her before going outside, she will start to associate outside/going potty with being muzzled and you might start having a fearful Shiba or one that will start going potty in the house due to fear of being muzzled outside.
  • @MoxyFruvous, we just had a big scare with her. She ate something (not positive what, possibly acorns) and she spent 36 hours in the ER because she was disoriented, lethargic, not eating, not drinking etc.. We are sure it came from outside because of the way it happened and also because we are so very, very careful about anything she could get into, but have no idea what it was. She was very, very sick and I don't want that to happen again. Our only other option is always leashing her outside, but I really don't want to do that for her own happiness.
  • MoxyFruvousMoxyFruvous
    Posts: 375
    I think you should try planting things in the yard and soak them in the bitter apple. Nothing that will hurt her. Could just be a few pieces of cooked chicken/steak. See if she responds to the apple. (I have also used tabasco) If she eats them anyway, move on to a muzzle or a leash.

    I know your fear. Its scary how many things outside can hurt our pets. I have a few toxic plants in my yard (Bleeding hearts, Hydrangea, Rhubarb) I just have to watch them when they're outside. I'm not a fan of letting them outside alone. Who knows what they will get into.

    I had a scare similar to yours a few years ago when 3 of our cats got into some lilies. All parts of the Lily are toxic/fatal to cats, so in the middle of the night, off I went to the ER vet with three upset cats.
    Post edited by MoxyFruvous at 2015-04-17 19:32:56
  • AntoinetteAntoinette
    Posts: 870
    @MoxyFruvous-how much does Moxy weight and what size muzzle did you get for her? I'm afraid I will need to get a muzzle for Quake for his next vet visit.
  • MoxyFruvousMoxyFruvous
    Posts: 375
    I think I got him a medium or large. Moxy is 30lbs. Pretty sure it was a medium. They sell them at Petco, so I would stop by if you have one near ya.
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8253
    If you are going to get a muzzle for her to prevent her from eating things she should not, make sure you get a basket type muzzle. They are less restricting and still allow the dog to pant and drink normally. They are also easier to get the dog to accept as well.

    In addition to the muzzle (short term bandaid), work with her more on "leave it" in the yard. Do training sessions out there starting with low value items then working up to super high value items.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • AntoinetteAntoinette
    Posts: 870
    @MoxyFruvous-Thanks!

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