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Alternatives to bell for going outside?
  • millerb7millerb7
    Posts: 132
    Our Shiba is 5 months old and we are having a horrible (for us anyways) times with potty training. She still goes pee in the house about 1-2 times a week. Now, regrettably this is pretty much our fault. Chloe goes to the door and we don't notice so she'll basically walk into the room were in and pee. She just REFUSES to make any sounds though at the door. No whining, no barking, whimpering, nothing, ever. So we decided to move to a bell (it's been 2 weeks) and she just has zero clue what it's there for. Just seems like she's totally clueless with it. Our poodle on the other hand picked it up in about a day and already knows what it's for.

    Now, we were spoiled with our poodle who was potty trained in about 4-5 days fully. No accidents since. I know each dog is totally different, and poodles are crazy smart, so I'm sure that helps.

    I guess my main question is I'm wondering if anybody has found a better/different alternative to using a bell at the back door. I didn't know if there was a certain method of using the bell anyone has had success with, or maybe a different way of trying it. I just need her to make some noise at the door so we know she's there.

    Again, we totally understand this is our fault since she we are like 90% sure she goes to the door before she pees in the house... but she only stands there for about 15 seconds and makes no noise before she walks away. Also, she pees a lot... we probably have to take her out like every 1 hour when we are home with her. In her crate, she's fine for hours with 0 issues... but anytime we are home she's basically peeing what seems like every hour. If she's laying down, or sleeping in bed with us at night, or in her crate, she's fine.... but if she's active at all it's about every hour.
  • millerb7millerb7
    Posts: 132
    Again, I'm not really looking for potty training ideas (tons of posts on that already) and she is technically potty trained. She sleeps in bed at night with us and has 0 accidents, has none in her crate ever, and only has about 1 a week in the house when were home with her and she's out.... the issue is the zero noise at the door (and not really being able to pick up on the bell).

    Maybe it just will take more time, but I've never seen a dog take longer than a week (no matter the breed) to pick up on the bell at the door... it's been 2 and she's not even close to knowing what it is.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    She isn't abnormal in any way, but you relying on her to tell you is the main issue IMO. I have adults and puppies, and the adults are on the same schedule as the puppy. I don't wait for them to tell me they have to go, they all go out, when I'm home, every few hours, more for the puppy. The longer she has to practice peeing in the house, the harder it will be to break and the more ingrained it becomes. In short, don't wait for her to tell you, take her out on a schedule. You may also want to rule out a UTI.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
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  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
    Kira only makes noises if she has to REALLY go or if she thinks that I've ignored (not noticed) her previous signals. He just stares intently at me to go outside. But that's only if I am distracted and her "Go Outside" time is well past normal schedule. I tell her those two words and her ears perk up, she changes her facial expression, to let me know that "it's about damn time!"

    Associating going outside with a phrase has definitely helped in determining what she wants.

    It makes you question who is more well trained: the owner or the dog?
    Cynthia, Proudly owned by Kira
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  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1590
    I totally agree with lindsayt. Don't wait for her to ring a bell or scratch at the door. At five months, you should have a pretty good idea of when she'll need to go out. There is nothing wrong with being proactive here. Take her out every 2-3 hours. Play, have a romp, and even if she doesn't have to pee, the time wasn't wasted!




    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    Some dogs are just more stubborn. Kaji caught on early on the bell and would also bark/moan/whine if we ignored or didn't hear him. Sheba doesn't use the bell, although Sheba's vocal and paws at the door, which accidentally hits the bells.

    Just keep at it and praise and reward when they do what you want them to. Before letting your dog go outside, have her sit at the door, and shake the bell to open the door. I've even gone as far as taking Kaji's paw and manually showing him how to ring the bell. He usually uses his nose though. These shibas are smart and will catch on quickly but if they are stubborn, they will only do it if they see it benefits them.

    Be sure you crate her when you are not home, and upon getting home, you walk her to the door and show her ringing of the bell. Then open the door and let her out. If she doesn't go when she's out, crate her again. Repeat until she goes potty outside. But always ring the bell before you open the door. Don't give her an opportunity to pee inside the house by close monitoring of her behavior and crating if she doesn't pee outside. If your dog is peering in the house once a week she is not fully potty trained so you have to go back to the basics.

    One last thing, make sure Chloe doesn't have a UTI.
  • millerb7millerb7
    Posts: 132
    Reading thru responses now but I noticed UTI. She previously did have one about a month ago. It was rechecked about 3 weeks ago and was cleared up.

    When she had it, it was like she couldn't control herself and just kind of randomly peed in the house. It's different (hard to explain) now. I totally agree it's my fault.

    I have only had her for a month (got her at 4 months old) so I basically have her schedule down but I haven't had the full 3 months I normally would with a 5 month old dog. Maybe that's part of some of the issue as well. It's only been a month and I'm still learning. I think my toy poodle has spoiled me as she was so easy to potty train.

    I think I'll just keep up with the bell for another few weeks see if any progress is made. I'll keep treating her when we go outside and I'll be sure to be more attentive.

    PS

    How I'm doing the bell is I put her leash on, take her law and ring it, then open the door. I assume that's about the normal way.
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
    When I first got Tatonka his food intake times were regulated (3x/day) and water intake was regulated too (6x/day). After each intake he'd go for a walk and eliminate. I believe the consistency kind of taught him what happens where. No more water intake regulating for him (I only had to do it for a week) but food is only offered 2x per day.

    What goes in has to come out. It's a good rule of thumb for potty training.

    And I don't know if the bell is a good idea. Tatonka whines in front of a door only if he needs to go out and pee. Otherwise he will just sit quietly in front of a door. No exceptions..
    Monkey!
    Post edited by tatonka at 2013-11-06 21:59:57
  • knnwangknnwang
    Posts: 645
    I do not use bells. But Ratchet likes to bat at door bells when we are out & about in other apartments. Humm...
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1106
    We never used bells for potty training, but we just picked up a set we saw at Target in their seasonal pet section - too cute to pass up! To get him used to how it works, every time he touches it (investigating) we say "outside?" and pick up the leash. Then when we are all leashed up, we ring the bells for him and say "outside" again before stepping out. He's not totally on board yet, but he has rung it himself in the last few days.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    You can try clicker training the bell. It would be a snap
    "Common sense isn't so common"
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  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1269
    Maybe your puppy never started the housetraining at the breeder, then one month at your place is not a long time to break the habit. On the plus side she should have better bladder control now compared to at 8 weeks.
    Juni also was extremely subtle with her signals so we missed it a few times in the beginning, but as I remember it, it was only a matter of weeks until she was fine with going out on the times we decided. So as much as the bell idea sounds a bit cute to me I don't quite see the need. And I do see Juni totally abusing it.... Maybe better to program an alarm for you guys instead to remember to take her out often enough?
  • jennjenn
    Posts: 856
    One day Rigby started scratching at the door, maybe around 7 months? Not sure where he got that from, we didn't teach him to do that. Now he's began whining or barking at the door when he needs to go out.

    We had a semi rough time with potty training. We would go 6 days with no accidents and then I'd miss a cue or he would be playing or chewing and have an accident. He even had accidents in his crate (which I read was unheard of for a Shiba). He was reliable by 6-6.5 months though. I became better about picking up his water bowl so that I could monitor how much he was drinking, then 15-30 minutes after take him out after water or meals. Same thing after rigorous playtime or chewing time, or if I caught him pacing. Don't feel too bad, not all Shibas are created equally and some are harder to potty train then others :)
    Jenn, Shiba Slave to Rigby / http://hellorigby.com
  • millerb7millerb7
    Posts: 132
    lindsayt said:

    You can try clicker training the bell. It would be a snap



    Never thought of that. We do clicker training for her other training... not sure why that eluded me.

    I guess my fear is obviously the abuse of the bell but since she refuses to scratch or whine at all maybe I'll keep at it for now.

    I think it boils down to just keeping a closer eye on her and being more in touch with her signals... which I guess after only 4 weeks is still a learning curve.

    She has good bladder control though in her crate and in our bed at night... never any accidents. Just during the day while things are hustle and bustle around the house and if she isn't paid attention to constantly and we miss her standing at the door.
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    I've tried several ways of getting dogs to tell me they want outdoors. One pawed the door... ended up with a lot of scratch marks in and outside of the door and frame- not recommended. We tried the bark but that was annoying, so again, not recommended. The bell has been the most pleasant for us.
  • devonmlewisdevonmlewis
    Posts: 182
    with Yuki we are working on the bells, now that he is pretty much accident free in the home. He is set up on a schedule, the only issue I hae with the bells is that he doesn't have access to them (a lot of the time he's leashed in the home, and when he's in our room the doors are closed and he doesn't have access to the door). What have thee. When he is able to get along with the cairn and be off leash and with the other dog 24/7, so we're doing bell training.

    I do the same as you. I put him on the leash, walk to the door, he rings his bells. But before we go outside he has to sit and wait for me to go through first (so he gets a stay command) and does not go outside until I tell him to come.
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
    I get the Shiba stare from Kira - she sits by the living room doorway that leads into the backyard . If I ignore her, she slowly moves closer and stares straight into my soul... @-)
    Cynthia, Proudly owned by Kira
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  • my guy just gets my attention and then walks to the door and marches in circles.

    I tried the bell. He realized it meant "go outside" so the bell was ringing ALL DAY since he thought it meant play. I gave up.

  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1814
    Some tips for those struggling with use of bells.

    “This bell ringing trick is best for pups that are already at least 95% toilet trained. If your pup isn't already toilet trained, go ahead and teach her how to ring the bell, but wait until your pup is toilet trained before continuing with the subsequent steps.”


    Also, you can alway use a service desk bell that sits on the floor, that way you can teach bell ringing paw push rather than nose bump and then later when dog is potty trained place the bell by the door or pick it up if you want to travel or you need the item out of the way (for short durations). Don't keep the bell away too long or behavior may fail later when you need it.

    Snf

    Ref
    http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1171
    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2014-03-20 18:20:43

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