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Systemic Lupus Erythematosus
  • RAM25RAM25
    Posts: 317
    I did an advanced search and only saw this mentioned very briefly in a post - please do point me in the right direction if I did not need to start a new thread (also apologies if so).

    I have searched pretty much everywhere on the internet for Systemic Lupus Erythematosus in the Shiba Inu and have only returned about 3 pages with vague info. I am wondering if this means it is very rare in the Shiba? I note Akita's have been diagnosed with it.

    I am probably being paranoid, my Shiba Inu is 10 months old and female, she has had a bit of a stiff limp in her right back leg which has gone away almost completely since she had a growth spurt. She has had a few UTI's. Now she has had pyoderma of the anus skin and her foot. We treated her for this but I am now seeing signs of it on her nose.

    Whilst googling I came across SLE, which mentioned shifting lamness and skin disorders and UTI's a symptoms.

    My question is - could this be possible? Have you ever experienced it in a Shiba Inu?

    I am returning to the vets of course but I did not want to sound like a hypochondriac mentioning this to him if my fears are unfounded.

    Thank you and sorry again if I should have added to an existing thread.

    [changed category ~mod.]
    Post edited by curlytails at 2013-08-15 21:36:34
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    I believe the forum owner @brada1878 had a Shiba with Lupus a long time ago...
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • RAM25RAM25
    Posts: 317
    I think that the skin Lupus is quite common and also manageable, I wonder if it was that type? Systemic Lupus Erythematosus seems to have a very poor diagnosis (a 40% death rate in the first year of diagnosis) and so I'm going out of my mind with worry...I hope I'm overracting, I guess google always throws up the worse case scenario...
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1590
    @RAM25.. I'm wishing the best for you. Hopefully your vet will put you at ease with a different diagnosis.

    I know nothing about SLE, so cant give you any personal exp/advice. I found one rather dated article on SLE from a source I trust. Don't know if it will give you anymore info than you already know, and hope it doesn't worry you even more!!

    Hopefully Brad will have some insight, or another member.

    Keep us posted!!

    http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=2475


    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
  • RAM25RAM25
    Posts: 317
    Thank you. She's had various seemingly disconnected heath complaints since we got her and I think that's why I'm feeling hypersensitive. I hope this is not the tragic cause for them all. I hope she just had growing pains, puppy UTI's and now an allergy or simple pyoderma.

    I will post again if we get a diagnosis from the vet. I often go to the vet prepared to hear the very worst and the vet looks at me like I'm insane.
  • Do you have any idea of her pedigree or breeding background? Is she a puppy mill dog?
    If so, this may explain some of the health issues.

    Has your vet done any blood work on her on a repeated basis? Sometimes if there are recurring problems, it helps to do repeated blood panels, that may help identify lurking problems. For example, Sukoshi's liver function readings pointed the way to her liver shunt problem.

  • ShibaLoveShibaLove
    Posts: 554
    I have no experience with SLE in dogs, but it is rampant in my family (and me) and I do research in the lab on SLE in mice. DLE (Discoid Lupus Erythematosus) or cutaneous lupus are not quite the same as SLE and are not as fatal as you described (~40% fatality w/in 1st year) because it is not systemic and is not affecting multiple organs. SLE patients can have some skin issue too though.

    Another thing is this usually occurs in older living organisms, and your girl is only 10 months old, however that doesn't rule it out. She could just have an advanced form which would not be good.

    With SLE, the most fatal problems are thrombosis and loss of kidney function. It could probably be diagnosed in a dog by getting a urine sample and measuring proteinuria for kidney function, drawing blood and measuring serum auto-antibodies and complement proteins involved in inflammation, and also levels of WBCs and platelets. They might want to take a skin scrapping as well.

    This is probably getting ahead pf myself, but for the medications, try to get by without prednisone (like just the azathioprene and cyclosporin) first because prednisone can cause some serious mood and behavioral problems and they just aren't pleasant.

    Well good luck! I ams uprised to hear about lupus in dogs but I suppose if mice can get it so can dogs. It can be quite difficult to diagnose even in humans that can describe their symptoms. I hope it isn't lupus but if so it is manageable as long as it is treated. Keep us updated

    I suppose it isn't as rare of a thing. Here are some articles on genome wide associations with lupus in dogs:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20101241
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19636550
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17785296
    These may only have their abstracts available.
  • RAM25RAM25
    Posts: 317
    Thank you very much for your input ShibaLove. I am sorry to hear that you have first hand experience of it in yourself and your family. Thank you for your reasurrance and information.

    Sukoshi’s mom, Shinobi is not a puppy mill dog. She's from a very nice family who own a dog grooming salon and are rather big in the show world. We have all her pedigree info. and both her parents health checks were excellent...she was the last puppy to be chosen though, to me she looked very similar to her siblings so the 'runt' of the litter sort of thing didn't really occur to me but now I wonder! I am in regular contact with the breeders and have asked about her siblings and they haven't heard any bad news with any of them...
    She's had a few blood tests because of her recurrent UTI and everything has always turned up healthy...I hope that Sukoshi is OK.

    As mentioned, she is only 10 months old and I guess some babies do just pick everything up when they're young. I have a habit of getting overly worried about her. She's so loving and kind though, I feel she is my best little buddy. I don't know what I'd do if something were to happen to her.

    Vets soon so I will mention my concerns. He told me on the phone earlier that it is a bit odd that her pyoderma is spreading but he mentioned it could be allergies...I will post again if we get any diagnosis of interest.

    Thank you again
    Post edited by RAM25 at 2013-08-16 11:17:57
  • I hope she's ok, and it is something else. :(

    I'm of the opinion, though, that health issues that show up in one Japanese breed are likely to show up in others as well. Akitas have a longer history here in the US, so we're more familiar with health issues that show up in that breed, but if they get it, I would suspect Shibas can too.
  • RAM25RAM25
    Posts: 317
    Thank you Shibamistress and yes, that's exactly what I thought when I read that Akita's have been known to have it :/

    On a slightly more positive note, her nose looks a lot better today after some HibiScrub. She has been sneezing quite a bit especially around grass. I'm hoping she's 'just' having some summer allergies.
  • @RAM25-- Glad to hear that Shinobi comes from a reputable breeder. Several of us on the forum have had puppy mill dogs and many of the dogs have had major health and/or behavioral issues. My Sukoshi had hip dysplasia, a liver shunt, and heart issues. She passed away this March ( 8 yrs. old) from what appeared to be either a stroke or heart attack.
    Post edited by sukoshi’s mom at 2013-08-16 17:36:05
  • RAM25RAM25
    Posts: 317
    Sukoshi's mom Oh my Gosh, I'm so sorry to hear that and for my insensitivity there...I'm sorry that I didn't know your story before I made my comment xx

    I learnt all about puppy mill dogs on this forum. I am from the UK where I know we have them (they are called puppy farms here) but the Shiba Inu is so rare here I don't think they're being bred in high demand in that awful way (hopefully I'm correct on that one). I have never seen a puppy in a pet store or anything, the thought of that is just crazy to me. The biggest animals we tend to get in stores are rabbits (Im from the South, it may well be different up country).

    I can definitely see how back yard breeders fool people though. I contacted a seemingly 'reputable' breeder before choosing my dog and have subsequently seen her produce at least 2 more litters this year (out of one bitch apparently hmmm...) I'm grateful that I was armed with the knowledge to suspect her and walk away.

    It all makes me so sad, how people can guitlessly profit from not only animal suffering, but the suffering of the family that buys them. I'm thankful for this forum and it's unscrupulously honest approach to it, hopefully it can help combat them and also save someone years of sadness.
    Post edited by RAM25 at 2013-08-16 18:45:32
  • @RAM25- No apology needed.
    I will keep my fingers crossed and think positive thoughts for Shinobi. Maybe she's just getting off to a slightly rocky start.

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