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What defines a good dog to dog socialization experience?
  • teddyjamesteddyjames
    Posts: 124
    Post edited by sunyata at 2013-06-06 09:04:28
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
  • teddyjamesteddyjames
    Posts: 124
    Thanks for the tip. I'm very glad he's pretty much fearless, and I dont mind if a healthy/well-behaved dog nips at him or snarls, I actually like when the do so he knows how to react if it happens. My mom has two well behaved dogs but she FREAKS if I bring him over and they get fed up with him. I was asking because today at puppy class he was getting mauled/stepped on by some lab mix, along with the other dog trying to hump him. I was starting to get a little worried after a few minutes (the trainer had an eye on it but i was still uncomfortable). I told them that was enough, but the owners were not very intelligent people. After a few warnings I had to physically move their dog (mine was right next to me). Of course Apollo was unphased and wanted to go right back at it. Does this "aloofness to strangers" and "hand-shy" develop as they grow older?
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1269
    Yes, the aloofness usually comes as they mature, but not in all Shibas. Some stay outgoing and social.
    I think that as long as the puppy doesn't get frightened it is good interaction. But not all dogs like puppies so make sure it is ok beforehand. In my neighbourhood people were good at warning if their dogs didn't like puppies. I also noticed that as with people Juni didn't like physical corrections from other dogs and would then 'fight back' but with dogs that just gave her a stern look she would obey immediately.
    I think it is fine to intervene when you feel that the play is getting out of control or something, some dogs are not very good at telling the puppy off and then I think it is useful to step in. Sometimes when Juni plays with someone who is as fast or faster than her she seems to just get frustrated and annoyed so then I stop the game, also if I see that the other dog doesn't understand her way of playing I take her away before any of them gets angry.
    Doggy day care I think has been really good for her social skills. She doesn't like all dogs there but she has learned to avoid and walk away from them instead and doesn't always have to show her teeth or frown. The trainers there, surprisingly to me, think she is a great babysitter for newcomers (normally puppies) because she is very strict with them but would never harm them (they say!).
  • teddyjamesteddyjames
    Posts: 124
    I try to bring him only around dogs I trust. If its a dog I don't know I judge how the owner is acting with their dog and how Apollo reacts before even asking to approach. It seems no matter how many warnings (if I can see them, I KNOW apollo can) apollo gets he still just wants to box or play bow and bark, or jump on them. When the other dog snarls the owners immediately freak out amd pull the dog away, and I sort of wish they wouldn't. I definitely want to put him in doggy daycare when he's eligible at the end of the month. I'm just not sure about putting him with a bunch of dogs I know nothing about., even with qualified handlers watching. I can just picture him causing mischief and picking up some bad habits haha
  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
  • BearsDadBearsDad
    Posts: 167
    Post edited by BearsDad at 2013-08-22 10:51:02
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    I think a good puppy class is your best way to get good puppy interaction/socialization. I think it is as important puppies play and interact with other puppies as it is for them to meet some well adjusted/socialized adult dogs too.

    A good puppy class the trainer is going to know when to step in and when not to. A good puppy class with the right trainer will also give you assistance on seeing the body language of your pup too so you can build from there when watching other interactions of your puppy with other puppies/adult dogs.
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1106
    For first meetings, it can be good to take a quick walk together (neutral territory) so the dogs can see and smell each other without getting overwhelmed. Let them meet and sniff on leash. (Granted, some dogs have leash aggression, but those would not be good candidates for your puppy's first socialization!)

    After your walk, and once the dogs are comfortable with each other, you can take their leashes off and let them play. Leashes can get tangled, so for their safety, you shouldn't leave them on. If you don't have a private yard (and dog parks are not recommended until your puppy has had the full series of vaccinations), you can use something like a fenced basketball or tennis court or baseball field for them to play in.

    Toys can be added once you know the dogs play well together, but like @BearsDad said, some dogs can have possession issues with toys and food.
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1269
    With Juni who is more of a grumpy bitch, I don't let her or the other dog sniff each other at all on leash. After some time when you walk they will start sniffing the same bush and exploring the same things and that is usually enough to make them relax in each other's company. Juni plays different with small dogs, she can be surprisingly soft with them. But as a pup I don't think she understood the difference in sizes and play styles so well.
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1814
    It really depends on the personality of the dogs and their prey drive and/or possessiveness over objects and spaces.

    A lot of on leash aggression can occur when introductions are made while constrained. A training center with off leash play and safe dogs are a good idea.

    If the socializing is going well keep it up. Socialization should be on going way beyond the critical 16 weeks. It's a life long thing in many cases to keep dog to dog manners up to snuff.

    Weigh it as the dogs mature to make sure they are enjoying the company. Not every dog will naturally get along with every dog they meet. Often possession issues crop up over time so be aware of that as well.

    Snf
    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2013-08-23 10:36:30
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
  • BearsDadBearsDad
    Posts: 167
  • fisticuffsfisticuffs
    Posts: 148
    I actuaIly have a question about this as well.
    Roku tends to start out with some slightly aggressive behavior at first when meeting new dogs, regardless of size and/or age. He nips at them and growls a bit. I try to curb this, but when I have ignored it (with a close friend's bigger, older lab) he stops on his own when he realizes they're not going to respond to it (so far no dog has).
    My neighbors have a pomernian puppy that's just a few weeks older than Roku, but so much smaller. We let them play and he did his aggressive nipping/growling thing first and started playing after a few minutes. He kept pinning her and grabbing her leg and like, deathshaking it. Hard. I intervened, but she kept coming back to play more. She never whined or cried out, but I was worried about his viciousness. I know he's not trying to kill her, despite it looking like that. But I'm not sure what to do to stop this behavior, or if I should since she's not showing that she's being hurt by his roughness. The neighbors said they need to work it out, though with the pinning and shaking, even they looked concerned.
    Should I stick to letting him play with larger dogs only for now? He does just fine with bigger dogs.
  • MayamaMayama
    Posts: 270
  • @Mayama, it sounds like you probably should seek some professional help before it continues to spiral downward.

    I am interested to know how old Maya is as I have the impression so far that this is not uncommon around 2 years old and my boy Bear is slowly approaching the 2 year mark (he is right now almost 21 months old). So far I see no signs of issues, but do worry a lot due to others on this forum who report these issues cropping up around 2 years old. I also worry because I know he is already a shy natured boy, to date though he tends to avoid rather than confront, but worry that this could change.
  • MayamaMayama
    Posts: 270
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1269
    Juni used to be similar to Mayama, she liked to sniff other dogs but hated having her own butt and face sniffed.
    I just stopped letting her greet other dogs. We detour or I walk between her and the dogs we meet or even better I put my bike in between. She is much more relaxed when she knows she doesn't have to have so much contact with other dogs.
    If I want her to be able to interact with another dog we go for a walk first and let the introduction take place gradually.
    If we go to a dog park, which we only do every now and then we go to one which is very large and where it is easy for Juni to choose if she wants to play with some dogs or if not there is space enough to walk away and avoid them.
    At the nearest dog park she always gets up to the fence and checks the other dogs out, if they seem too rowdy she walks by but if the dogs seem sweet and friendly she walks up to the gate to be let in.
  • MayamaMayama
    Posts: 270
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    @Mayama,

    Wow. I'm shocked. Having met Maya myself, I wouldn't expect her to turn that way as well. Does Maya do that at home too? Or just out in public places?

    Have you taken her to FF lately? Maybe we can do a trial run.
  • MayamaMayama
    Posts: 270
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1269
    If she has dogs she knows and likes I think that is enough for her. Shibas, or many of them, are not like other dogs that want to greet and play with everybody. It is just stressful having to meet new dogs all the time then. Think of them as introverts that constantly have to try and small talk to strangers over and over, it wouldn't be nice at all.
    Remove the stress and after awhile when she understands she doesn't have to get sniffed at all the time she might go back to being more social again.
  • MayamaMayama
    Posts: 270
    Post edited by Mayama at 2013-09-05 03:39:57
  • JuniJuni
    Posts: 1269
    When we take classes I always introduce Juni with an explanation that she wants some space. I find it really rude when other dog owners don't respect that. Usually it's someone with a dog who is 'super friendly and loves everyone'...so they never bother to look at where exactly their dog is. Well after Juni has told them off they usually learn to keep their distance :-)
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
  • tysaaantysaaan
    Posts: 122
    Bumping because I am having similar issues with Jibo.

    Jibo tends to be quite rough with play, and especially with smaller dogs, it will look like he is aggressive due to his way of playing where he is very mouthy and also likes to jump and pounce around. I believe he also has a hard time of reading other dogs and knowing when to stop. Is there anyway to train him how to be much calmer towards other dogs or does this require professional help? I want Jibo to be calmer and less rough while playing since most of the dogs he interacts with are small and are older and don't really play the way he plays.

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