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Article on Linked Neurological Problems in White and Piebald Animals
  • lindsaytlindsayt
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  • RikkaRikka
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  • shibamistressshibamistress
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  • lindsaytlindsayt
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    Post edited by lindsayt at 2013-05-31 13:43:58
  • jennjenn
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  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
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    Interesting, although I am not sure I fully agree with all that she writes. I personally struggle with buying in to all of Temple Grandin's many hypothesis and statements. One could poke some holes in a few things I think from what I skimmed from the links themselves. I would say extremes in anything are probably not a good thing when we look at breeding programs etc. A lot factors into behavior/temperament in general so weighing on just color alone seems a bit overblown. I do see her point on avoiding heavy line breeding in regard to pigment, but again it isn't as simple as it seems in my opinion.

    I wonder were she got her info about neurological disorders and light skin etc etc, there isn't a scientific reference to her statement? Also, I have seen rage syndrome in liver dogs too so I am not sure it's light skin, white coat, melatonin related to deep brain issue for all mammals. Plenty of mutations cause problems and that often has nothing to do with color.

    Alternatively, does Temple Grandin mention the ratio of skittish behavior in all black animals? (In all fairness if one is looking at one color, in good science you have to look at the other extreme.) I have seen plenty of black herbivores i.e. All black beef cattle (Angus), as well as black sheep, and goats, they can be darned skittish, wacky, and often quite aggressive. None of them had a hint of pink skin, spots, or were born white. They were all black with black pigment from birth.


    As far as humans, we see plenty of blonde blue eyed humans too, and they do not appear any less healthy or less mentally healthy (dumb blonde jokes aside) than the rest of the population so it seems. Scandinavia appears to be thriving without a full health crisis in their majority blonde population. Maybe there is a government conspiracy to cover up wacky blondes in N. Europe (LOL).

    Snf
    PS: I have not had any issues with (white) dogs, based on color, that I have encountered within the Shiba breed or any other dogs for that matter.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
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  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
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    Maybe I misunderstood, I thought Temple Grandin mentioned something about humans too and light pigment...

    Whatever.....Interesting read though..
    Snf
  • lindsaytlindsayt
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  • DrySeDrySe
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    interesting read. also interesting is Tsuki (red) is way more "skittish" than Plue (white). Tsuki is also a lot smarter than Plue so I always joke around with my wife that Plue is too dumb to care while Tsuki is too smart. He keeps his distance and scopes everything out before getting comfortable with new people/dogs/places.
    Post edited by DrySe at 2013-05-31 19:37:37
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • DebDeb
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    Interesting articles, thank you for posting them. Temple Grandin's accomplishments are truly remarkable for anyone and especially someone afflicted with autism.

    Part of the Russian fox experiment she talked about is covered on a PBS Nova show, "Dogs Decoded". The ditty relating to numbers of white socks on a horse has been around for a very long time and I'm not sure it has anything to do with temperament. White hooves are not as tough wearing as black hooves and maybe that is why you "pass them by", the ditty doesn't really say. I do think tight line breeding to select for only one attribute in any animal breed is a colossal mistake. Each of these issues she mentions with regard to interbreeding to select for one feature.

    Cream Shibas are not albino, so I'm not sure this really applies to the information in the article.

  • CrystalWolfCrystalWolf
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    I have a white cat with pink skin, one blue eye one green eye. She is not deaf, and not really skittish or shy around strangers, but she doesnt like them petting her, i think thats mostly because she is a cat though.

    But in the case of dogs i really do believe this to be true from what I have seen throughout the past. I have only had dark colored fur dogs but the people I know that have dogs with white fur I have seen them be aggressive (due to being scared) more often than not.

    It was definatly a interesting read on the dalmations. I did know they were prob to going deaf and some dalmations I have know also went blind.
    Post edited by CrystalWolf at 2013-05-31 23:37:54
  • shibamistressshibamistress
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  • CrystalWolfCrystalWolf
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    I am not to well versed in genetics, most of the time it confuses me and I have to re read it alot although I am extremely interested in it :)
  • JuniJuni
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    Being Scandinavian with a cream dog I feel that I can't really argue believably here ;-) although I'm not blonde actually, but from only browsing the article I wonder if it is not other things than the colour that are important in the behaviour, like being deaf could certainly cause skittishness.
  • CaliaCalia
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  • lindsaytlindsayt
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  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • fisticuffsfisticuffs
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    I'm really surprised no one has mentioned Waardenburg's disease here yet as it is very closely related to this exact thing.
    I learned about it because I'm a ferret owner. We had a ferret with a biting issue and suspected something else was going on. He was was properly socialized and none of the others had this issue. The vet determined that he was deaf and mentioned Waardenburg's being a possibility. He was all white with black eyes (known as a dark-eyes white or DEW) which is one of the color combinations listed as being indicative of Waardenburg's, along with "blazes" (a white patch on the front of their forehead) and "pandas" (white shoulders with a dark head and body). Waardenburg's ferrets also have a flatter, wider head, something that is easily noticed by those who are around ferrets often, but hard to recognize otherwise. Deafness occurs in 75% of cases and behavioral issues are common. I have since had 2 more ferrets with Waardenburg's (another DEW and a "panda"), the panda was mostly deaf, sweet-natured and dumb as a door nail. He died of juvenile lymphosarcoma before his first birthday (lymphosarcoma is common in Waardenburg's).
    The thing that I found most interesting about this disorder is that people can have it as well and they display the same physical characteristics as ferrets do - a white streak in the hair on the front middle area of their head, and a wider skull shape. People with Waardenburg's almost always have light blue eyes with very little pigment. I know that dogs can have it and they suspect high levels of deafness in blue-eyed, white-coated cats to be Waardenburg's.
    I'm wondering if Waardenburg's isn't an extreme version of what this article is talking about?
  • fisticuffsfisticuffs
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  • lindsaytlindsayt
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  • Bump

    I need to carry my phone more... I just saw the coolest thing... an albino shiba!!

    It wasn't a cream shiba as I first thought. The owner pointed out her dog's eyes were red, and since he was all white, they think he is an albino. They didn't DNA test him, but they do think he is a shiba. Has anyone heard of albino dogs?

    He is a rescue so his history is unknown.

  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
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  • NikkitineNikkitine
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    Post edited by Nikkitine at 2015-03-01 00:19:49
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • JuniJuni
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    I have seen pink nose on a b/t Shiba, but it was pink and black. So it happens but should be considered a fault I guess.
    And we like to think of Juni's nose as brown and not pink :-)
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
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  • SushiShibaSushiShiba
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    ^ Hahaha Kira's just all kinds of fabulous lol. :D

    I don't know if this counts, but I saw a picture of a B&T and I think it had a freckled nose - black and pink. I highly doubt it's photoshopped, but for all I know, they may have painted it on, lol.
  • NikkitineNikkitine
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    Post edited by Nikkitine at 2015-03-01 17:58:19

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