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Goldendoodles do you agree with the breed?
  • ashley15ashley15
    Posts: 63
    image
    Idk if I posted the picture right, sorry if you cant see it. This is my golden retriever that died last night :( I am very heartbroken, I was not able to be there when they put him down :( since I go to college and live in an apartment I could not be there when they put him down. His name is Max and the kids are my step brother and sister.

    I grew up with goldens and now my mother is considering another golden retriever. So I went searching for good breeders, I am coming across a lot of goldendoodles instead of golden retrievers. A lot of former golden retriever breeders are now breeding there dogs with poodles. There prices are very high ranging from 1000 to 1500 some even higher. I am surprised people would even pay this much for a non registered dog.

    I can not make up my mind if I agree with the dog breed! But they are becoming very popular. I do not want one just wondering what you guys think about this.

    What do you guys think of this? Do you agree with mixing the breeds? Do you think the prices are to high? Would you buy a goldendoodle was that price? Also do you think this breed will ever become AKC?

    [Mod Edit: fixed image]
    Post edited by Calia at 2013-03-14 20:35:34
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    They're a mutt. That being said, Golden Retrievers are super sweet and Standard Poodles are fun who can learn very quickly. What you get with a Goldendoodle can be all retriever or all poodle or some weird mix of both. Also check if it's a F1 or F2 (F1 is one parent is a poodle one is a golden retriever, F2 is usually both parents are Goldendoodles). I'd find a breeder you like, meet the dogs, then ask to get references from the last two litters. Ask about any surgeries, allergies, aggressive behavior and anxiety. Goldendoodles are are pricey because of a temporary demand for a specific type of dog, not because they require more work to produce like, say, French Bulldogs.

    Also to note, not all are "hypoallergenic", as is claimed. There was an article in which the original breeder laments what has been done in the name of his breed. The hypoallergenic quality only lasted for one generation (as in the puppies that grew up to be bred did not pass on the hypoallergenic quality), and anything else is a fluke or was carefully bred. If they claim it, ask for testing results to prove it.
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    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
  • ashley15ashley15
    Posts: 63
    @Rikka I agree with you that it is a mutt. I do not plan on getting a goldendoodle. I personally do not find them appealing and would not want one. I do not understand why someone would want to pay A LOT of money on a dog that can not be registered or show them. I was very surprised that breeders would breed them together, to me it sounds more for money then anything else.

    They are coming out with a lot of "poodle" breeds such as Schnauzers= Schnoodle which I think is new.
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1587
    So sorry to hear about your golden. We lost our Sibe last May, it's never an easy time!
    I personally don't like the mixed breeds, nor would I ever consider owning one, but that's just my preference. I think Rikka gave you some very useful advice. Also, don't let a breeder try and sell you a purebred Goldendoodle! Does not exist, and I'd be running!! I only mention this because I see it all the time. There are also some registeries out there that will register a Goldendoodle, and other popular mixes. Not any of the National KC's, of course, but it seems like clubs like the Continental KC, among others, are up to no good. I don't know if this is playing a part in driving up the prices, as well as the demand.
    I wish you luck in your search!!

    Clarification, the Continental KC recongnizes GD's only for performance events such as agility and obedience. They do accept and grant pedigrees as long as both parents are registered. I don't want to misrepresent this fine organization!
    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
    Post edited by Kobe1468 at 2013-03-14 20:04:57
  • I'm sorry for your loss :(

    I have known several people with golden doodles. Regarding their personality in general they seemed to be more poodle like in temparment than like the golden. I personally do not agree with the breed because you just do not know what you are going to get. While they are a few generations in at this point you can't be sure of the personality. Of course all breeds vary in personality but you at least have a good idea of what you are going to get and what they need.
    Why spend so much money for a crap shot? Personally if I was thinking of a mixbreed I would head to the shelter. If I am willing to throw the dice with a dog I may as well save a life (and not pay the price of a pure breed!). Granted at the shelter the pups breed is usually a compete guess I don't think your any better off than when you purposely mixed breeds.
    But I must say my opinion is very biased as I do not like the standard poodle personality and I really don't like the "designer dog" craze.
  • EsperchanEsperchan
    Posts: 29
    Sorry about you goldie. :(
    Personally, i really dislike these "designer" breeds. I mean really. My grandma had a schnoodle who we ended up taking in, and his coat was impossible. He had to go to the groomers every few months or he got really matted and uncomfortable. The poodle coat is hard for the average person, with you either needing to be a good home groomer yourself or having the dough to dish out to the groomer. Breeding these are a bad idea to me. I would much rather have shelter dog. Also both the golden and the poodle have been misbred(especially the golden) so, even though mixes in general have better health, they don't sound like e good mix.
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2516
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with an intentionally bred crossbreed or mutt as long as the breeder is doing it ethically and with the health and well-being of the dogs as a priority.
    Post edited by Losech at 2013-03-14 19:56:24
  • Kit_Keet_Kit_Keet_
    Posts: 206
    Sorry for your loss. It's always tough to lose a loved pet, I still have the harness for a dog I lost almost ten years ago.

    I don't necessarily hate the idea, but I'm not a fan of how it's turned into the "designer dog" nonsense that @RoninsMommy is referring to. I understand why someone might want one for the hypoallergenic qualities, but as previously stated, that's not even a sure thing and there are certainly purebreds who are hypoallergenic.

    I don't know, I think it's ridiculous to spend that much money on a mixed breed dog (not that getting a dog should ever be about the cost) and it's also a little irresponsible to purposely breed them. That being said, we just adopted a mixed breed puppy from the local shelter (it's anyone's guess what she is...) and it will be interesting to see how her personality/health differs from our Shiba's.

    She's already got one up on Kit in the health department since she apparently doesn't have a heart murmur or luxating patella lol. Both of which Kit had as a puppy, the heart murmur has gone away, the luxating patella, not so much. Personality wise, we're not so sure! She seems even sassier than the Shiba at her age, although she is likely a terrier mix!
  • Sorry to hear about your loss.

    They're not a breed. They're a cross breed. So I can't really disagree with them as a breed... ;)

    And yeah, people are spending a lot of money on a crossbreed. I like standard poodles ok, goldens less, but I don't see the point of cross breeding these two. They're not "hypoallergenic" and I've heard there is a lot of mix on the temperament--a lot of people say they seem to have the bad points of both, but not the good points.

    And they cost a fortune for a not a purebred dog. I don't see the point.

    And I actually don't see the point--nor do I particularly agree with--crossbreeding purposely except for in some rare cases, especially when it helps one of the original breeds--like outcrossing that has been done in some breeds. There are plenty of dog breeds out there already, and I don't see the need for creating another, especially when it doesn't have a real function other than as a pet. I might be able to see it more for a working dog, but not as a pet. (Like I have not problem with mushers crossbreeding to get the team they want, but those are working dogs).

    And the designer breed thing drives me nuts. Just a way for someone to make money.

    eta: and CKC (continental kennel club) is not a real registry. It's made for mills and people doing things like designer breeds. So having them registered through them is not a good sign. (Which I believe was probably Kobe's point on mentioning them! :) )
    Post edited by shibamistress at 2013-03-14 21:15:57
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    I'm very sorry about Max and that you couldn't go with him to the vet. I'm sure he felt loved and had a great life with your family.

    The only goldendoodle I have met was a really nice dog owned by a relatively wealthy family. The mom was allergic to dander so they picked the GD. Great with kids, great temperament, well trained. He was really big and loved to swim in the pool. They took him to the groomers a lot as well as the lake to swim. I have nothing against the dogs, but more or less against those breeding to make a fast buck.

    Some folks like that the dogs are expensive bc it is a status symbol, but personally, I sort of snicker behind their backs because they just paid a fortune for a mutt. But in the end, it is a matter of you loving your dog, regardless of breed, health or dollar paid.
    Post edited by amti at 2013-03-14 21:17:58
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1587
    I have often seen many misleading ads in selling some of these 'doodles'. The one I see the most is them stating "both parents are CanKC registered". This may be true of course, but then they say "puppies will come registered, with first shots....ect.." Yes, registered by WHO?!!! And then they ask for $1000!! It would be funny if it wasn't so sad!!
    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    I don't mind purpose bred mixes, and lord knows there are dozens of purpose bred mixes for sports like Flyball (including goldendoodles), or for hunting, service work, and like Lisa mentions, mushing. I do think it's silly to intentionally breed mixes to fill a pet market demand especially since the vast majority are not health tested and not sold with spay and neuter contracts.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
    Post edited by lindsayt at 2013-03-14 22:49:11
  • Well, all the ones I know - and I am SURROUNDED by them - are these big clumsy, stupid, and NOT hypoallergenic dogs that have to be shaved because the owners don't know that you still have to brush them. My cousin bought a puppy and got rid of it before it was one because it was tearing the house apart and jumping all over her kids. I know, that says more about her than the dog, but the ones around me are the same way. One hurls himself at the window every time he sees a dog. I don't get it because poodles and Goldens are smart, but these seem "off". I'm sure they are all H1s. I think the clumsiness comes from having conformation that is a train wreck. Poodles and Goldens have completely different frames so bred together make what I think is a really weird looking dog.
    So call me not a fan. There are probably perfectly nice ones out there, but I haven't met one yet. I think Goldens and Poodles are great. My one neighbor spent $5000 on her mutt - that's the one that tries to break the window.
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501

    Well, all the ones I know - and I am SURROUNDED by them - are these big clumsy, stupid, and NOT hypoallergenic dogs that have to be shaved because the owners don't know that you still have to brush them.



    Funny, that's how I feel about Labs minus the hypoallergenic part. ;-)

    image
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1587
    @lindsayt...most of the ads I've seen for these doodles actually offer you the option of a spay/neuter contract, but don't require it. Of course you pay more!! Go figure!!
    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
    Post edited by Kobe1468 at 2013-03-14 22:50:54
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    That was my sort of my point, it's not responsible on the part of the breeder to sell without requiring spay/neuter of these mixes who are just pets.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • DebDeb
    Posts: 286
    I am very sorry for your loss of Max.

    My cousin went out and bought a golden doodle, don't know why. Their previous dog, who passed at an old age, was a sweet old yellow lab. The golden doodle is a good fellow, well socialized and quite a pleasant 'let me please you PLEASE' temperament. He would be a bit too much of a velcro dog for me. But still, he is a sweet boy. His coat is care intensive and tangles easily and quickly. Personally, I don't consider these mixes a breed, more of a nonsense fad with out of proportion hype. It all seems kind of silly to me for people to pay large for a mix and then brag about it like it's a status symbol. After all, it isn't a rarity, there are plenty of mixed breed dogs to be had at the shelter that really do need homes. I don't see the value in planning these mixed litters for the pet market other than being money driven.
    Post edited by Deb at 2013-03-14 23:09:59
  • ashley15ashley15
    Posts: 63
    Thank you everyone for your condolences about Max his was a great dog and lived a happy and full filling life <3 <br />
    @orangedoggie I know exactly what you mean! My uncle and aunt got one, whenever I go over to babysit their kids after school I have to prepare myself before I go in because their dog jumps all over me and pees everywhere. The dog is 1 year old, it has WAY to much energy. When I go sit down it still bites my hair and me, my little cousin can barley handle the dog because it jumps and knocks him down ..they use to have a shiba inu, they introduced me to my first shiva :) .. Their dog also went to puppy classes

    They got the idea of getting a goldendoodle from there friends who have two. The more that I think about it there eldest goldendoodle is mean too. It has known me for 6 years and still growls at me. They paid a lot of money for their dogs and was raised in a great environment , so it should not be mean! They love their doodles, so I kinda feel bad talking bad about their dog, but I would never buy that kind of dogs. There are a lot of other great pure bred breeds out there and also shelter dogs that need homes. They paid 2500 for each of their dogs :o stupid in my opinion!

    This is going to sound silly, but there high school son also talks bad about shibas and how goldendoodles are the best. I just want to kick him sometimes haha ;)
    Post edited by ashley15 at 2013-03-14 23:24:33
  • Well, all the ones I know - and I am SURROUNDED by them - are these big clumsy, stupid, and NOT hypoallergenic dogs that have to be shaved because the owners don't know that you still have to brush them. My cousin bought a puppy and got rid of it before it was one because it was tearing the house apart and jumping all over her kids. I know, that says more about her than the dog, but the ones around me are the same way. One hurls himself at the window every time he sees a dog. I don't get it because poodles and Goldens are smart, but these seem "off". I'm sure they are all H1s. I think the clumsiness comes from having conformation that is a train wreck. Poodles and Goldens have completely different frames so bred together make what I think is a really weird looking dog.
    So call me not a fan. There are probably perfectly nice ones out there, but I haven't met one yet. I think Goldens and Poodles are great. My one neighbor spent $5000 on her mutt - that's the one that tries to break the window.



    That's what other people have told me--that for some reason all the doodles they've met were just kind of off, and some were had aggression issues (she ran a doggie day care, too, and had encountered quite a few). I wonder why that is?

    That said, I like Standard Poodles, but damn, they can be a bit...um....hyper? nervous? Smart, but they are a bit much for me.

  • VickiePVickieP
    Posts: 5
    I'm questioning this. It is OK to intentionally hybridize a golden! So what do you guys think are acceptable crosses for the Shiba? I am sure you would get some sweet dogs from a Shiba Poodle mix......
  • I have mixed feelings on intentional crosses. I tend to think (as said above) if you want a cross breed, go rescue an unitentional cross that is in a shelter. If they have a purpose and are well planned, well bred, etc., then I guess it makes sense... I know some mixes can be very, very beautiful. As for shibas, I don't think any intentional cross is good. They have such a rich history as a breed, why would you want to mix them?

    I despise so-called "designer dogs". Myself and a few dog owning friends were encouraging a non dog owning couple of friends to get a dog soon so we could all have play dates. Among the group of dog owners, there was our shiba, a corgi and a samoyed. We were throwing out breeds for them- "You should get a lionberger!", "A basset hound", "A schnauzer!". Then they said, "I think we'll get a goldendoodle". We all groaned and then someone changed the subject. There was no point arguing or even asking them why.

    Another friend made an interesting point about golden retrievers. He had always had one growing up and he said that you know what you're getting with a golden retriever. They all have the same personality to 90% or more. It's only about 5-10% of their personality that will be unique. Which is good if you have kids or other special circumstances. I think crossing them with a poodle (which, in my experience, can be mean and manipulative) removes that advantage.

    One last point and then I'll shut up: my understanding is that no dog breed is hypo-allergenic. There are only those that shed less and therefore the dander doesn't spread into the home. Recent studies have made some interesting findings in this regard: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ocean/ajra/2011/00000025/00000004/art00021

    My boyfriend had a significant reaction to a friend's little white purse dog and that friend got angry at him and said he must have touched another dog immediately before coming to their home because their dog was hypo-allergenic.

    I'm so sorry for your loss, Ashley. My first cat passed while I was away at school. I know it makes it harder.
    Photobucket
  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    VickieP said:

    So what do you guys think are acceptable crosses for the Shiba? I am sure you would get some sweet dogs from a Shiba Poodle mix......



    ...no thanks.
    image
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    If Shibas were to crossbreed with other dogs, the only mix I would support is an outcross with another Nihon Ken like Shikoku or Kishu to improve health and genetic diversity (those two NK seem to be suffering from very low numbers in the US and in Japan, with some very concerning major health problems).

    I realize that proposing this here where many of the members have sick and unhealthy Shibas from less than reputable sources (and some from good breeders too), may cause some head scratching, but this is why I would support this type of outcross (and only this type):

    More is known about Shiba genetics and health over a long period of time due to their popularity and larger numbers, and the fact that they have been invloved woth show breeders in AKC for several decades now. We have many generations of health tested Shibas currently in good breeding programs, which are the only dogs I would suggest using, and while such an outcross would still be a crap shoot, at least these breeds are similar enough phenotypically and in genotype that it makes the most sense to me to go this route, or nothing.

    No poodle Shiba crosses!
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • Shibas are perfect and don't need to be crossed with poodles or any other breed. Taking a double coated northern breed and crossing it with a tight coated poodle makes little sense. The only people who breed poodles to make "doodles" are trying to cash in on the designer dog craze.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    lindsayt said:

    I don't mind purpose bred mixes, and lord knows there are dozens of purpose bred mixes for sports like Flyball (including goldendoodles), or for hunting, service work, and like Lisa mentions, mushing. I do think it's silly to intentionally breed mixes to fill a pet market demand especially since the vast majority are not health tested and not sold with spay and neuter contracts.



    I agree 100% here. A lot times the golden retriever and poodle are not health tested and probably not from working lines too.

    I see designer dog craze as a thing for money. Puggles, scnoodles.

    I mean getting one from rescue or shelter fine, but not purposely bred one.

    I don't mind breeding to better a hunting dog or like Lindsayt said to help a breed that is falling in low numbers..

    Like Dalmatian I fully support what some breeders are doing to improve the breed's health.

    Sad they have to be on such special diet due to it..

    their dog jumps all over me and pees everywhere. The dog is 1 year old, it has WAY to much energy. When I go sit down it still bites
    my hair and me, my little cousin can barley handle the dog because it jumps and knocks him down


    Reminds me of my neighbor's mastiff/lab mix they call her a mastador.. I think matador when they say mastador.. She is same way clumsy, does not listen to them she is two years or maybe year and half I forgot when they got her.

    She is very off as she does not listen to anyone not even her owners. I can understand not me, but she should behave for owners.. She still jumps on them and they let her roam around and she'll chase the owner's car and any car really that drives by her house. Probably only exercise she gets all day since she is never walked. I only seen her walked 3 times in her life.

    She barks non stop too I step outside to take compost stuff to the bin. Bark bark bark.. I step out to see how hot it is bark. I hang outside with my dog bark bark. bah shut up!

    I see no point in breeding a labrador to a mastiff as this dog has no good qualities of the breed coarse she has zero socialization so she is afraid of people.

    VickieP
    I'm questioning this. It is OK to intentionally hybridize a golden! So what do you guys think are acceptable crosses for the Shiba?
    I am sure you would get some sweet dogs from a Shiba Poodle mix......


    Are you serious? Why intentionally breed a shiba to a poodle? What outcome would come of it?

    Shiba is fine as it is I feel breeders need to put their focus on the health of the shiba and do health checks for hips, LP, eyes and so on also do work besides showing like agility or obedience if possible..


    I see mix of shiba and huskies a lot they call it mini husky. Ugh!

    There is already a breed made to be for people who want mini husky though I doubt their temperament is 100% the same. The Alasken Klee kai.

    I don't hate Alaskan klee kai either I know some people who own them and ones I know seem fine temperament wise though it's only three so maybe they were well bred examples..

    I'm fine with hunting dogs being mixed if needed to improve their hunting or Alaskan huskies, but the whole doodle or any intentional mix is mostly for money with no thought on health.

    Sorry about loosing your Golden retriever my neighbor had one sadly he is gone from old age he was a good country dog he had a knack for catching moles.. haha

    Max is handsome dog. I bet he'll be miss.

    If your into golden retriever I'd go with that and fine a good breeder. my neighbor with horses has one too he's very well behaved dog too.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
    Post edited by Saya at 2013-03-15 16:30:05
  • We have quite a few Puggles around here too. They all showed up around the same time (fad!) and none of them look alike. They are not cute unfortunately. I don't hate the designer breeds, but I think people are extremely foolish to spend huge bucks on a mutt. They spout off on "hybrid vigor" which just isn't true. Breeding sickly a sickly dog to another sickly dog does not make the puppies immune to their parents bad genes. These dogs are flooding the shelters and many have health issues.
  • VickiePVickieP
    Posts: 5
    There is a breeder in my area doing Shiba mixes. Here is her listing:
    ".Shiba Inu x Miniature American Eskimo cross puppies. This
    cross is ADORABLE!! You get a similar look to
    a Shiba with a less independent personality.
    Eskimo's are smart, easy to train, love learning
    tricks - These traits bred with the Shiba Inu
    make amazing family companions. "
    Maybe she is doing it to better the breed....Personally I think these people are just out to make money. I don't agree with any mixed breeds. Adopt a shelter dog if you want a mix.
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1587
    She's definatly not doing it to better the breed, as what she is getting is not a breed, rather a mutt! The Shibas independent nature is one of its strongest traits...why would anybody wanna try to lessen it!! Thank you for sharing...another fine example of foolishness and greed!!
    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
  • ashley15ashley15
    Posts: 63
    There is already a variety of dogs out there. People use to breed dogs for work such as mice, hunting, and retrieving. People do not use many dogs for why they we bred years ago I think, only some.

    Also I like the shibas indepented attitude, it makes then different from other dogs.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I agree if you don't like shiba independent nature then just get an American Eskimo dog then.. there are many spitz breeds out there most have independent streak to them, but some are less so.

    I love shiba and other primitive type dogs for their primitive like nature and independent.

    No different then ones who breed shiba to chiahuahua on purpose or any other breed. :\
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    Mini Am Eskimo + shiba = one endlessly yapping hyper dog! Who cares about looks when you can't control your dog? I had a sammy, so I love the look, but don't care for Am Eskimos because I found them too yappy, too hyper... I guess I just never met a calm one!
  • VickiePVickieP
    Posts: 5
    I guess my point is I don't believe in intentionally mixing breeds. Sure there are people who love them and some are great dogs...but adopt form a shelter. Don't support a breeder who is doing designer dogs to make money off them :-)
    My guess is Golden retriever people and poodle people who show and do health testing feel the same way we do about mixing Shibas with other breeds!
  • GemmaGemma
    Posts: 103
    Breeders who used to breed just goldens and then bred GDs instead? Sounds alot like just jumping on the money bandwagon to me rather than caring about about the "breed"
  • LaRen616LaRen616
    Posts: 221
    The man who created the Labradoodle wishes he never did it. He was the start of the "oodle" craze.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/labradoodle-creator-s-regrets-says-inventing-designer-dog-may-have-been-a-disaster

    I don't agree with all of these oodle mixes. I do agree, however, with creating a new breed as long as it has a specific purpose and there is a standard created for the breed.
    Lauren

    Sinister ~ 5.5 yr old black male GSD 3.11.09
    Draven ~ 16 month old male Dalmatian 6.20.13

    Cats: Chaos, Mayhem, Monster, Wicked
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1587
    Good article....could go in the mill thread as well...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2564373/The-hidden-suffering-dogs-bred-cute-Adorable-looks-Cuddly-names-like-Labradoodle-But-trend-cross-breed-dogs-raises-disturbing-questions.html
    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
  • poltergeistpoltergeist
    Posts: 426
    I am so sorry for the Daily Mail article I am about to share:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2554214/Ive-created-lot-problems-Why-Labradoodle-creator-blames-puppy-mills-breeding-Frankenstein-versions-designer-dog.html

    Basically, Wally Conron, who created a cross-breed dog for a friend of his (who needed a guide dog, but was also allergic, etc). Anyways, he regrets it now because this idea of getting crossbreeds have become ridiculous. Also, a lot of presumptions are that because they're crossbred that means they're healthy (not at all, you can inherit both mom and dad bad genes, etc.) and because they're not purebreed, there are no health tests being done, etc. You are not guaranteed a healthy puppy.
    It's even more outrages for the amount they sell these dogs to you (selling at the price of 'purebred pedigree' dogs, which is a massive con). I think you shouldn't spend 1000 bucks on a goldendoodle. I would spend 300 bucks for a Goldendoodle puppy, or free at the pound ;)

    I see also, @Kobe1468 posted the same link!

    Anyways, despite it being from Daily Mail, it is worth a read. Don't be conned!
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  • DabishDabish
    Posts: 203
    Funny I came across this because for the longest time I've been anti-doodle/any designer type of dog. At the dog park the other day I met a girl with a Borderdoodle. I asked if she rescued him or got him from a breeder, and of course the answer was breeder.

    The problem I have with this is that no reputable Poodle or Border collie breeder would intentionally mix their dogs like that. So the breeder would have to be using dogs that presumably came from some sort of mill, unless if they got two dogs from reputable breeders on the sly and mixed them.

    The girl says the breeder health tested her dogs and socialized them. To be fair the pup had a great temperament. And after the documentary I saw the other day on show breeders...well I don't think my stance is so staunch anymore on what makes a good breeder. I think as long as a person tests their dogs, makes sure they have good temperaments, and socializes them, who cares about all the show stuff.

    But anyway, my point is I used to strongly disagree with the breed. Now I think that as long as the breeder is not just looking for a quick buck but is serious about putting dogs out there with a good temperament, who's to judge?

    ETA:

    I think you shouldn't spend 1000 bucks on a goldendoodle. I would spend 300 bucks for a Goldendoodle puppy, or free at the pound ;)



    Let's say a person wants to start breeding these doodle dogs.
    They get a Retriever from a reputable breeder and a Poodle from a reputable breeder. The dogs are health tested, socialized, well cared for, just like any other dog reputably bred. This person isn't focused on making money, but putting nice doodle dogs out there with nice temperaments. Who's to say the resulting dogs are less valuable by $700 when just as much work went into producing a solid litter as with any other purebred show dog?

    And if it comes down to the fact that most people breeding these doodle mixes are doing so with less knowledge and poor intent, then why would you still contribute $300 to a practice you find unethical instead of just rescuing to begin with?

    The, "doodle dogs are worth x < than a purebred dog from a reputable breeder, but i'd still get them from a breeder I don't believe is reputable", thing doesn't make sense to me.
    Post edited by Dabish at 2014-03-26 10:15:05
  • good point about the "I'd get a cheap one" not making sense! It's like saying, oh, let me get this mill Shiba because it's cheaper. We all know where that leads!

    Part of the work that a good breeder does is have generations of dogs bred, knowing that their temperaments and health are going to be because they've watched it and have the experience. These mixes, esp. a new one like a Border collie/poodle, which, frankly, is a NIGHTMARISH cross (why not just say I'm trying to breed the most neurotic dog possible?). You can't tell what is going to go wrong in one generation or even two--so mixing breeds like that does not make a breed, no matter how many ridiculous names the cross breeder comes up with. It takes YEARS to know if a new "breed" is going to be stable and do what it is meant to do.

    I'm against these kinds of cross breeds because they aren't needed. There are plenty of good dogs out their for companions, including just ordinary mixed breed dogs (not purposely bred) so people don't need to go and invent a whole bunch of new "breeds" that have no purpose other than to be companions. Cross breeding for health (as in the dalmation situation) is a totally different thing to my mind, or in some cases for hunting/working dogs, but it's not needed for companions.

    More to the point, most people I know who have had to deal with the "doodles" have said they have not turned out well. I suspect part of this is no reputable breeder is going to sell their purebred poodle or golden or lab to someone who is going to crossbreed, so they're not getting the best dogs anyway. Several people I know have said they seem to combine the worst of the two breeds. And I love standard poodles, but they are not the dog for everyone. Very smart, but with a tendency to become clingy, even somewhat neurotic if they don't have lots to do and are handled well. Most people don't need that kind of dog, and adding them to a retriever mix is not going to make the retriever more stable, you know? (That's why I said I can't even imagine what idiot would think breeding a border collie--breed that needs way too much work, and also has a tendency to be neurotic--to another similar breed, the standard poodle. That's insane!)
  • I agree with the breed as a golden may not be perfect for everyone as a poodle may not be, but a golden doodle CAN be.

    I thought the point of these "doodle" breeds was to create a hypoallergenic dog?

  • yes, but no dog is hypoallergenic, and even the guy who created the breed (see links above) now regrets it.
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1587
    I saw a listing on Kijiji today for a Shiba/Papillon mix(WTF!)

    Really, these ridiculous mixes are simply breed for profit by people who could really care less about bettering the breeds they are mixing.

    The mills are just licking their chops for the next and latest 'hip' mix!
    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
    There are lots of Shiba mixes out there now. There is actually a site for Shiba/Husky mix - they are calling them Husky Inu
    Cynthia, Proudly owned by Kira
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  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    So... what's everyone's opinion on the fact that Shiba x Husky mixes are becoming more known now? :|
    image
    Lauren, living with a 4 y/o Shiba named after a scientist. ☆
    Post edited by Rikka at 2014-03-27 07:18:03
  • Kira_KiraKira_Kira
    Posts: 2482
    My biggest issue with any designer breed is that I feel like it makes backyard breeding so much easier. All a person has to do is buy 2 purebred dogs from good (or not good) lines and prospectively breed them. Since the AKC doesn't recognize them, there is no requirement on standards and complete lack of concern on lineages.

    Any fool can sell them and market the "Husky Inu". And they do - there are so many postings for puppies and the biggest issue that I have is what does this mean for the future of the breed?
    Cynthia, Proudly owned by Kira
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    Kira the Cream Shiba Inu 吉良 - Facebook Page
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    “Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.”
  • On the flip side, genetically speaking, aren't "mutts" healthier and less pre-disposed to certain ailments than pure-breds?

    (I am not picking a side one way or another)
    Post edited by BanjoTheBetaDog at 2014-03-27 09:23:39
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8429
    @BanjoTheBetaDog - No. This issue has been discussed multiple times here on the forum. But in short, if you breed two dogs with genetic issues (same breed or not), then the offspring will most likely have genetic issues. Feel free to search for the at-length discussions.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • Of course, same goes with socialization, etc. I meant strictly genetics/natural selection. A purebred from a good breeder has proper social skills and is healthy. A mutt at 8 weeks may be in a shelter and will lack these things. If breeders made "healthy mutts" (meaning good breeders decided to cross breed various dogs so in 6 generations you have a mutt from good lines), would that dog be "healthier" than a pure bred from the same lines?

    I hope that makes sense?




  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @BanjoTheBetaDog

    Yes if the good breeder (who does health testings, etc) decided to make mutts, then yes they would be "healthier" but good breeders don't make mutts because it does not better any breed ;) so those don't exist!
  • DabishDabish
    Posts: 203
    The dog wouldn't be any more or any less healthy. If you think about it, all of our "pure breed" dogs started off as something else and were mixed at some point to perfect a purpose. The issue with mixed dogs now is it takes generations to perfect a dog, and the mixes being bred are being bred for profit, not some sort of use. People just want to make a quick buck.
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 8429
    @BanjoTheBetaDog & @Bootz - No. The dog would not healthier. The dog may be just as healthy as a responsibly bred purebred dog, but not necessarily any healthier. Remember that a wider gene pool does not necessarily make it a BETTER gene pool.

    Let me give you a real world example:
    A breeder has three excellent hunting dogs that have great attributes and compliment each other very well. Two of these dogs are female and one is male. Two the dogs are the same breed (shall we say Breed X) and the other female is a different breed (Breed Y). The hunter is an ethical breeder and health tests and trials all dogs before they are bred. All three dogs pass the genetic health tests, and they have obviously been proven through hunting trials.

    The breeder makes a decision to breed the female and male of the same breed and also to breed the male to the female of the different breed. The genetic diversity is similar, since the male is not related to the female of either breed. Both females produce a littler of 4 puppies that are hearty and show great promise for hunting. As the litters grow up, it becomes apparent that all of the offspring from the same breed pairing are going to be excellent hunters. However, for the different breed pairing, one of the puppies lacks drive and is an off colour that would not be useful for hunting. However, all eight puppies seem healthy.

    Fast forward to three years down the road. All of the same breed pairing dogs have been placed in hunting homes and are doing excellent. However, only two of the mixed pairing have been placed in hunting homes (they are still healthy and happy). The puppy with the off colour and temperament was placed in a pet home and is thriving as a high energy pet. The other puppy was kept by the breeder because he seemed like a promising candidate, but ended up having a recessive genetic issue that was undetected in either parent and died before his first birthday.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    I Wander, I Ride
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3485
    @sunyata

    ahh ok :( Thanks for the clarification. This is a topic that is discussed MANY MANY times not only on this forum but with friends of mine. I keep getting confused x_x~!

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