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Daycare Woes
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • RikkaRikka
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  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • tatonkatatonka
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  • littlebearlittlebear
    Posts: 144
    @kenzoLA When I first took Kuma to camp I was concerned about him being with the big dogs, still am just due to size difference. The owners told me that they would be more concerned about a fight if he was with dogs his size. Said that they would not tolerate him as well as big dogs. Kuma smiles and sometimes snaps, not toward the other dog, but just to let them know not to get in him space. He used to do this when he would first arrive then be just fine. I don't think he is smiling at the other dogs as much as he used to. The owners spent quite a bit of one on one time with him to see where he would best fit. There are two other shibas there, but they are in with dogs more their size due to their personality. I will say Kuma has grown up with my daughters chihuahua mix and she takes things from him and leg sweeps him. He is really good with her, but we would never leave them alone due to their size difference.
  • RikkaRikka
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  • tatonkatatonka
    Posts: 1210
    Post edited by tatonka at 2013-03-03 22:10:29
  • tatonkatatonka
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  • RikkaRikka
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  • RikkaRikka
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  • lindsaytlindsayt
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  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • GrayJJGrayJJ
    Posts: 67
    That's crazy, especially FIVE days after you picked him up. The dog could have encountered anything between that time. If there was a general concern on pick-up, they should have said so.

    I'm still having trouble finding a daycare I can trust would understand the Shiba play. They are rough with mouthing but don't bite to kill/lock on.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
  • @rikka - so the daycare thinks you're liable or did they give the info to the great dane owners? Sorry to ask, it just sounded like the daycare itself didn't blame you but did act as a sort of liaison to the other owners, in which case I'd be more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. It sounds more like the other owners rather than the daycare are the jerks but that's based on my interpretation of your post.

    Edited to add: sorry that you're having such terrible luck finding a good daycare.
    Post edited by violet_in_seville at 2013-05-03 15:04:24
  • jennjenn
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  • lindsaytlindsayt
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  • jennjenn
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    Post edited by jenn at 2013-05-03 19:45:06
  • lindsaytlindsayt
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  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
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  • RikkaRikka
    Posts: 1501
    Post edited by Rikka at 2013-05-04 01:23:13
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
  • @rikka - seriously? I was willing to cut them some slack, but that really isn't right. At the very least, you should get an explanation and an apology.

    @lindsayt - I'm so jealous of all of you!
    Post edited by violet_in_seville at 2013-05-04 13:55:07
  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    Sansa has had some weird experiences at day care/playgroup lately, and I don’t know how to make sense of them. Specifically, he has “flunked out” of both for being dog reactive at them. Sansa is 13 months old, and I have done all the typical socialization recommended for her: puppy class, meeting as many people and dogs as possible a la Ian Dunbar, regular dog park visits (probably three times a week, only in the little dog area). She loves her dog park visits. She’s never had any problems with any dogs, although, of course, she tends to play rough as Shibas do and there has been an incident when one owner didn’t like Sansa playing with her dog as a result. But there was no aggression from either dog, just typical play). She loves our dog park visits, and she’ll try to play with any dog that shows the requisite amount of energy and enthusiasm, and gets along fine with those that don’t play. On walks she wants to meet every single dog we see on the streets, and during obedience class that we have been going to when we walk in she immediately wants to start playing.

    Anyway, about two months ago I tried to bring her to daycare at the new training facility we’ve been going to (amazing place, with all positive reinforcement APDT trainers) and they called me a couple of hours later saying she wasn’t feeling it. She was baring her teeth at dogs who came near her and just sitting in the corner by herself where she eventually fell asleep. I could tell she didn’t like it because when they brought her out to me when I left work to pick her up, she came running down the hall at me and was so happy to see me: airplane ears, tail wag, licking my face, the whole nine, which is NOT how she usually greets me. I mentioned to the trainer that it was so weird to me since she loves dogs usually, and she said maybe because I wasn’t around she didn’t feel comfortable.

    Yesterday a playgroup started where dogs play and one works on reading their body language as well as refocusing them and having them listen to commands midplay. The trainer had encouraged me to bring Sansa, especially since I’ve told her how social and playful she normally is. Well we get there, and 2 minutes into it as soon as we take the dogs off their leashes, Sansa gets mobbed by some dogs and she growls at them and bares her teeth and that was that. No more play group. I feel bad because I think it’s something she would have enjoyed, but I can’t figure out why at this particular place, which she seems to love otherwise, she gets nasty with other dogs. Does anyone have any thoughts? At the dog park (which seems like a much more volatile environment if you ask me) she is the picture of zen: she has had dogs barking six inches away from her face for minutes at a time, been mobbed by dogs, been nipped at and she’s always kept her cool. Even during our obedience training there is a Bernese that constantly gets away from his trainer and rushes up to Sansa and aggressively engages her in play, and she’s cool as a cucumber. But each time she’s been let loose off leash there, she gets scared to the point of being nasty. Any ideas why? Has anyone else experienced this?
  • tatonkatatonka
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  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    LOL @tatonka, yeah, I explain to people that this is how dogs play. They're dogs. They play fight and wrestle and chase. What else do you want them to do? Play chase? It's one of my pet peeves, overprotective dog owners when it comes to play.

    As for the daycare/playgroup issues, I trust the staff implicitly, and the fact that she was also scared/uncomfortable enough to bare teeth during the playgroup when I was there within the first minute makes me question if it's the setting...I don't know, I'm not really sure. It's just so strange to me that only in that location does she become anti-social, whereas on the street or the dog park or when meeting acquaintances'/friends' dogs she's loving life.

    It's not the biggest deal (Sansa not liking daycare saves me money, if nothing else!) but it is frustrating that she seems to dislike these enrichment activities but is great in every other setting.
  • DianaBostonDianaBoston
    Posts: 254
    @Arctic .... Is the playgroup at the daycare an indoor facility? Do you think there is a difference of Sansa being "outside" vs. "inside". I know Dakota at first loves everyone in the dog park, then after awhile, she has had "enough" and we know it is time to take our leave. Maybe leaving Sansa all day somewhere is tougher because you can't just 'leave" with her when she has had enough. Where Dakota goes once a week to playgroup, the human leader watches her and after Dakota has had enough with the other dogs, she just removes her to another part of the house where she is content to just be on her own. Last week we tried to take Dakota to our favorite park. She went over to a mound of grass and just sat the whole time gazing like the queen of Shiba. If anyone approached she'd give a little lip curl and then be totally bored. We eventually just left because we could -- I don't know what to say. We do everything right and by the book and still sometimes have to live with not the best of behavior. However, there are many folks on the forum who don't even try the dog park or play groups -- for many reasons I am sure. But we all want our "kids" to have fun and be social. Some days it works beautifully and others not so much.
  • littlebearlittlebear
    Posts: 144
    I am curious about this also. My Kuma has been going to camp since he was 7 months old. He also does obedience school. He is very reserved and is not fond of anything new, so needs all the socialization he can get. He plays with the big dogs at camp because the owners said he always smiles (shows his teeth) when he first goes in and then he is fine. When he goes, he can't wait to get inside. He is always excited to see me when I pick him up, but he will also greet me then want to go back to play unless he is really tired. We also have boarded Kuma there with no problem that I am aware of. We have never taken him to a dogpark, for one, due to his smiling. My daughter has two husky pups and when she visits, the female always goes crazy trying to lick Kuma's face and for lack of a better description, trying to put her head in his mouth. He gets upset with her, growls and shows teeth but never has taken it to a bad level. Is the smiling a Shiba thing or is that that Kuma just doesn't want anyone in his face? Now Kuma has had knee surgery and has been out of everything for 3 months and probably for at least another 2 or 3 months. I am concerned that re-entering camp and school after such a long time might be an issue.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 5171
    Post edited by shibamistress at 2013-07-12 14:07:31
  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    @shibamistress, I think you may be correct in the indoors versus outdoors dichotomy. My trainer also suggested the same thing, and it's really the only variable I can really think of, although of course anything is possible.

    She's been "mobbed" before by dogs at the dog park (it's a separate little dog area, although she loves big dogs since they play rough with her) and she's always kept her cool. She's had aggressive little Dachshunds in her face six inches away barking and she hasn't batted an eyelash. Any dog she doesn't care to play with she just ignores, whether or not they're ignoring her. In our class, she always tries to play with the other dogs in the beginning. A Bernese puppy (that's probably 70 pounds at least) always gets loose from his own during class, and he has run into Sansa several times trying to engage her in play mid-class (I mean really charging at her) and she's just side-stepped him and completely ignored him.

    But then the leash comes off, and she's suddenly afraid and anti-social even though it's a controlled environment. Whereas at the dog park we go to at least three times a week she's cool as a cucumber even though the park environment is the Wild West compared with the play group. It's a bit frustrating that we won't be attending play group, but really I'm just a bit baffled as to the differences in behavior.
  • jennjenn
    Posts: 856
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 1106
    @Arctic, do you always go to the same dog park? Are the same dogs always there? The difference may just be that the new daycare place is new and she's out of her element. Also if she didn't enjoy that first day there she will remember that.

    Kouda also hates when strange dogs get up in his face and will snark.

    We left Kouda with our trainer for a weekend, and when she let him explore the backyard by himself he found a broom leaning in a corner and lay down underneath it. Like a feral animal hiding. She then let one of her dogs (who Kouda loves) out to greet him and he realized it was fine. She reported that Kouda was fine after that and even played well with new dogs.
    Post edited by zandrame at 2013-07-12 17:59:33
  • @arctic - when she goes to the dog park, does she get mobbed right away as soon as she's offleash or a little later? When you take her into the facility does she get to walk around a bit first, or do you head straight to the play group?
  • Kobe1468Kobe1468
    Posts: 1590

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