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Pooping When Sound Asleep
  • I've searched all over and haven't seen this discussed at all, but am really curious as to a rather new "behavior" I'm observing in Dakota. Now, this girl is as clean as a cat, was house broken at 9 weeks of age, and has never had an accident in the house since 9 weeks of age. Recently, when visiting relatives, we noticed a small piece of hard poop in her crate on several mornings as we were waking her up to go out for a walk. She sleeps in her crate and has since she's been a pup. At first we assumed that somehow the resident cat had gotten into her crate during the day and left a present -- or that Dakota had found a kitty cannoli and had eaten some of it and left the rest. After this happened more than once, we started to think that this might not be cat poop and might have "escaped" her during the night when she was asleep. On a rare occasion when she has had to make an emergency potty break during the night she HAS woken us up to go out. The reason I think this just "escapes" her is that it is never on the floor or in a place where it looks like she has purposely squatted to go.

    So, we've chalked this up to just "weird" behaviour from being away from home. However, when I got home today after being out for a few hours, I found a tiny piece of poop next to her on the couch where she was sleeping.

    Now, Dakota was just laying there snoozing and didn't seem fazed at all that she was sleeping next to a little hard piece of poop. My question is, what is going on? Has anyone else's Shiba ever done this kind of thing? Typically, these are hard, little pieces, not more than 1/2 inch that just seem to "pop" out of her when she is sleeping. As I say, she is the cleanest girl you can imagine and I think she'd be horrified if she knew what went on with her once in awhile when she was sleeping. I don't think she is making a "statement" or being "territorial" -- it doesn't feel like that to me at all. I think it is strange, strange, strange. And, haven't seen any other mention of it on the forum other than house-breaking issues and soiling the crate, etc.
    Post edited by DianaBoston at 2012-09-26 13:33:23
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Maybe it was brought inside stuck to her fur?

    The only other thing I can think of is a lack of full sphincter control which is a developmental thing, and young animals grow out of it as their nerves and muscles develop. I mean, it was only yesterday basically, where they were pooping in their sleep in the whelping box, right? I have come home to a stray nug or two when my first Shiba was under 6 months. After that, nothing.

    Sometimes you will see this type of fecal incontinence in animals with spinal injuries or malformations, like dachshunds with herniated disks or a dog with a stroke or post seizure.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • Yikes... I never considered a medical condition. She is almost 16 months old now and never had this issue before.. I can't imagine it was stuck to her fur, but maybe? Now, I'm a bit worried... She is quite healthy (or appears) to be, but I'll talk to the vet about it when she gets her booster shots next month.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Dink our old catahoula did this when she was 15 her health was going down despite joint supplements and pain meds her arthritis was bad and she had some incontinence with peeing then she started pooping when was laying down or if she got up or I helped her up to go outside to potty.

    For young dog I'm not sure hope it's nothing bad.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • The thing is it is not every day ... She's done it maybe 3 times in the last 10 days. And it is always a tiny, tiny piece. Not like a "real" poop that she does on walks.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Maybe she was "sharting" lol (gross)
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • JScarf5JScarf5
    Posts: 202
    My parents dog does the same thing, he's not a Shiba and he is 15 however. Sorry I can't add anything helpful, I hope yours is ok!!
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Maybe do a journal right down what she has eaten food and treat wise and any noticeable events? I dunno maybe you'll notice a pattern.

    I hope she grows out of it. hehe
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • AraksAraks
    Posts: 399
    @lindsayt you just gave me a visual I didn't want to have lol
  • ReizoReizo
    Posts: 33
    Reizo does this too, lol. It just happens and he has no idea. Its always 1 little piece and he acts like he has no idea how it got there!
  • rubyruby
    Posts: 175
    @lindsayt I just snorted
  • This sounds like an Always Sunny episode! poor pup!

    Maybe call the vet to ask?
    Benny Bear. Shiba Inu year and a half old living in Tempe, AZ
  • I will bring it up with the vet in a few weeks at her appointment. Otherwise, she is perfectly healthy and fine. It's not a common occurrence, but it just mystifies us.
  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    Now I'm going to have to watch that episode of It's Always Sunny. Also, you should post a picture of Dakota, Diana. She's gorgeous!
  • Thanks, @Arctic. I just can't figure out how to do it. I was going to post the pic of her napping next to the little piece of poop -- It is on Photobucket, but when I generated the HTML code for the pic, it was just a broken link.
  • This is what I found after being out for a few hours. She was totally unconcerned. Somebody suggested that she might have eaten 1/2. I doubt it. She only has interest in kitty poop and NOT dog poop. Poor thing.

    image
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Is she emptying out totally before you leave or before she is left on her own?
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • Yes, she has complete and normal poops on her walks... So odd. But totally acting healthy and happy otherwise. And as I said, it's only rarely that this happens.
    Post edited by DianaBoston at 2012-09-29 13:52:09
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    It looks like a very normal poo, but what I mean is, does she get walked and poops right before she has to go inside.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • Yes, she gets walked at least 3 times a day. Typically poops once or twice on her morning walk before we go home.. But she only pees on her last walk around 10 pm before we return home. And I do give her ample opportunity to poo if she wants to at night. Rarely does..
    Post edited by DianaBoston at 2012-09-29 14:19:55
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    What time of day is she pooping inside most often?
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • She's only done this about 3 or 4 times in her life. Typically, we found a tiny little piece in her crate in the morning after she had slept through the night in her crate. And just once I found it on the chair where she was sleeping during the day.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    I wonder if she just has to poop and ends up falling asleep while trying to hold it too long. Maybe wake up a little earlier to let her out? Otherwise I would check with your Vet for any neurological problems.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    Bump!! @DianaBoston, any updates on Dakota?

    I just found a small piece of poopy next to Bootz this morning and thought of you and this thread :( Just wanted hear from Dakota before I contact the vet!
  • @Bootz -- haven't found any more little pieces anywhere in her crate where she sleeps in a couple of months. I do not know what was causing this to happen. I mentioned it to the vet when we were there last and she didn't have any ideas either. I'd be curious to see what your vet says -- if anything. It certainly is an odd phenomenon in a dog that is not elderly nor incontinent in any other way. She is not a big pooper though. For example, she didn't even go this morning on her walk. Good luck and keep us posted!
    Post edited by DianaBoston at 2012-11-27 13:31:13
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    Oh thats nice to hear. This is the first time i found a little piece of poo poo in bed during her sleep. Her potty habit is poop at night, never in the morning :( so I'll wait it out a bit, since my bf thinks i'm overreacting.
  • Well, the only reason I mentioned the thing about talking to her vet was because we were there anyway for her yearly shots. I would not have taken her in probably just for a couple of errant, unexplainable poops. I can't tell you the money we have spent taking her in for tummy upset, weird this, or weird that.. And all of those times I think "would this have just gone away on its own?". But, that's what we do for our kids! I try to remind myself of all the money I would have spent on raising children had I had them!
  • @Bootz -- I cannot believe this!!!! Dakota just did this again, JUST now... I am really going to ask the vet tonight again (she has her lyme shot tonight) about it.. And now, I am getting worried.
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    omg T_T sorry if I jynxed it.

    The thing i'm worried about is....our Bootz has spay incontinence. I notice it happens only during drastic weather changes (which the doctor and many others think is a coincidence). So i'm not sure if this recent poop thing is fecal incontinence....its getting me worried.
  • Well, hopefully it won't happen again. Poop is actually easier to clean up in a way than urine. But, neither are fun. :(
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 3495
    Haha. Yeah that is true. Which is why we're getting waterproof sheets! But the liquid she leaks is clear o_o so I'm not sure its urine. But its some kind of liquid for sure!
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Diana, you said she didn't poop this morning yet, but just had an escape poo nugget now? Do you think that could be correlated? A little stress incontinence from holding it too long?
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • Yes, I wonder, but if it was stress incontinence, wouldn't it be a bigger piece escaping? She did poop later on her walk after she did this. What I know @lindsayt, is that it always happens in her sleep.. And she awakes to find this "thing" and wonders how it got there.
  • It just occurred to me that your Shiba probably is wondering what you are trying to tell her by leaving pieces of poop in her bed. Hope you guys can figure this out though!
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Not necessarily. Stress incontinence is usually just small amounts. The rectum being too "full" can be a type of stress on the sphincter, and when she is relaxed enough while asleep (like little kids who wet the bed), out it goes.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • That sounds like a very logical explanation @lindsayt. And I wonder if that little "escaped" piece startles her awake when it pops out. And, a lot of times on our walks she is SO much more interested in sniffing the grass and seeing the world than doing her "business". I give her tons of time on our walks. She is SO finicky about where she does her business. It almost always has to be in tall grasses or the brush. Well, she is a "brush" dog I guess. She should be pooping more I think as she's been a good eater lately. She is not constipated at all, but sometimes seems that she can't be "bothered" to get her business done. Weird little girl.
  • BitiBeaBitiBea
    Posts: 234
    @DianaBoston -Kismet is also super picky about where she goes. She Doesn't like to poop on leash and will only pee on leash when she really has to go. It's freezing here for the winter months and I think I have spent more time outside than in because of Kismets picky bathroom tendencies.

    Hopefully you can find an underlying cause to the mysteries little bed poops :)
    *´¨)
    ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
    (¸.•´ (¸.•` Kismet & BitiBea~*.
  • HA! Interesting to know that there are other "shibs" out there with similar habits. Dakota would NEVER even ask to go out unless I actually took her out. Sometimes I wonder how long she'd go before she went to the door. I would wait until she "asked" to go out, but am so afraid of UTIs and stealth poops in her sleep, etc. that I have to keep on top of her bathroom trips. I usually have to chase/coax her to put her harness on and she acts like she is having toenails pulled out. Then once out, she is in love with the air and grass and sights and sounds.

    And, I get you @bitibea, when you say you've spent countless hours outside in freezing temps waiting and waiting and waiting...
  • ArcticArctic
    Posts: 513
    @DianaBoston, Sansa is a picky pooper as well! She currently won't go in my yard, only on a walk. That's my fault for not having her poop before a walk every time like I meant to. I tried to break her of this last week by waiting it out, and she just held it until we crossed the street and started a walk, nevermind that we walked just as much around my property so she could poop!

    I gave up on having her poop in the yard since I am moving in less than two months anyway. Hopefully in our new home I can break her of this habit. Similarly, she also runs from me like it's a game when I try to get her harnessed up. Of course, once outside she loves life and would rather not be anywhere else LOL.
  • redcattooredcattoo
    Posts: 1960
    I hear everyone on the poo time ... I am glad I live in Florida, my cold is nothing like northern cold. It typically takes Bear a mile or longer during a walk before he decides to poo. Despite his soft poo issues, he holds it quite well for 15-20 minutes into morning and evening walks, only in desperation does he use the atrium area he has access to with a bit of grass in it. Even his pee, he now waits until we are a block or two from home and I know he held a lot overnight because it is a good 30 seconds or more pee.
  • BitiBeaBitiBea
    Posts: 234
    LOL Kismet ran from her harness too!!! She doesn't want to be on the leash AT ALL. Since she is food motivated and loves to go outside I have tricked her into sitting to get it put on using duck jerky. My pomeranian Fizz is a big help too because he JUMPS into his harness and she watches the way he sits nicely and gets excited and happy to have it put on. She still gives me that "buh...buh...but I dont waaaaant it mooooom" look while I strap her in but she has gotten better.

    I am lucky she has such good recall and is great off leash. There is a fenced area RIGHT by my house that I take her everyday and also a sort of "Hallway" behind the clinic where I work where she can go off leash for poops. She has been pooping twice a day like clockwork since I brought her home. Is that enough??
    *´¨)
    ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
    (¸.•´ (¸.•` Kismet & BitiBea~*.
  • Hi DianaBoston, did you ever figure out what's going on with Dakota' stealth poops?
    I just started a thread on my Shiba doing exactly the same thing and I was redirected to your discussion. It just started with us–4 times in the past 2 weeks– a "tootsie roll" in the morning in her crate, once on the carpet where she was napping. She's 2.5 yrs old, not a puppy, not elderly, never had poop issues before.
  • DianaBostonDianaBoston
    Posts: 254
    @Cybertrend -- nope... This odd, odd behavior continues once in a while. However, less than before. Not a clue. Otherwise, she is happy, poops normally twice a day.... I did notice though that when I fed her pre-made RAW, it gets her off a bit. She does much better on her Fromm kibble re: pooping, so I'm trying to stick with that. Who knows what it is -- but you are not alone!
  • Since the mistake poops are hard and small, I'm suspecting some degree of constipation that prevents our dogs from completely emptying when they go out. My Shiba sounds just like yours when it comes to being finicky about where she goes, they may be holding it back, saving it and then not get a chance if the walk was not long enough especially if the constipation was not making them eliminate easily. I'm going to ask the vet also but I'm pretty sure he doesn't have an answer. This is the kind of thing "mother instinct" solves better than modern medical training. MeiMei also had recurring UTI, vets did all kinds of tests on her worth a couple of thousand dollars with no answers. I heard about prescription diet for urinary tract health and got permission from the vet to try it, it worked like a charm by making her produce more urine which flushed out her system. Turns out she was also holding back on her urine due to her finickiness and not completely emptying. MeiMei has pooped once or twice a day. I'm just going to try staying out longer on her last walk her and take her to "choice" spots to make her do a second poop before we turn in. Maybe that's all there is to it.
  • DianaBostonDianaBoston
    Posts: 254
    A neighbor told me (and I don't know if this is gospel or not) that if you observe the poop that your dog leaves, its shape can give you some clues. He told me if it has a pointy end, then there is "more" in the chute. If the end is "clean cut", then your dog has emptied the chute. I have looked, and it seems that theory to be pretty accurate. Maybe more than you wanted to know..... Curious as to what your vet will or will not say. Dakota HAS to poop in tall or soft grasses and does "hold" it until she finds the exact spot. She has NEVER or will NEVER poop on concrete or right in the street. What a strange girl she is!
  • No information is too much on this issue. I'd like to solve it. MeiMei will also only poop in bushes and tall grass, going as far away as she can from me on her Flexi leash– 3 meters. When she's finished she runs away from the pile as fast as she can. I used to think it was so great that she didn't poop on the sidewalk or close to it, now I see what the flip side is. Yesterday morning, we had a poop surprise so I made sure she did a second set at night, and this morning, nothing! I'm going to resort to giving her a treat when she does her second set in the day. I still think constipation may be a contributing factor. I don't know if you have kids but this is also an issue when they are little. If going is painful due to constipation, they try to just hold it only to make a mistake later.
  • NikkitineNikkitine
    Posts: 776
    Bumping this thread since Tali seems to also be having ninja poops while she's sleeping. It's happened twice already, once in December when I was visiting my mom and today while she was sleeping next to me at work. I noticed she suddenly woke up and started licking her bum. I stared at her for awhile and when she didn't stop, I had a feeling I'd find a little nugget if I lifted her tail. Sure enough, there it was, a tiny little dry nugget poop that she apparently sharted out. Thank goodness for being raw fed and it was mostly dry. Odd thing is that she had just finished emptying out 20 minutes earlier.

    She's on Nature's Instinct Raw Bites with fish oil and probiotic powder. I'm wondering whether feeding too much protein or meat with too much bone content could cause something like this to occur?
    image
  • @nikkitine, how old is Tali? This issue finally resolved itself as the years passed.
    Dakota has not had a stealth poop since I last posted on the topic. So it took her a couple of years to stop having these little surprises. She is 4 now.
  • NikkitineNikkitine
    Posts: 776
    @DianaBoston - Tali is 15 months old currently and is healthy from our last checkup couple weeks ago
    image
  • I bet you she will grow out of this stealth pooping -- just like Dakota did!
  • BasBas
    Posts: 17
    They might be dreaming, and learning that when they dream they are pooping, they should not do it 'for real'.

    I can remember in my childhood (a long time after pottytraining, I must have been like seven) I learned to not be fooled by dreams telling me I was in the water or something, where it would be ok to urinate. I fell for that kind of dreams a couple of times, but soon learned the real and urgent difference between dream and reality by the 'results', telling myself to not, ever, fall for that again. Learning my brain it should flag and stop these kind of things automatically. Still, I sometimes fell for it, then told my brain to make it a much more urgent issue.

    This might be happening with the dogs to. They are potty trained. They know they should not poop inside. But when they dream? And dream they are walking? And taking.. a poop?

    Then: they might confuse dream with reality, and start pooping. As soon as it comes out though, the nerves in the actual sfinxter start firing, telling their brain: listen, it is actually coming out, should this be really, really happening? They realize: No! And tighten their sfinxter. After one or a few of these dreams, they would then learn to not 'poop in a dream for real'.

    Shiba's live on average about 14.5 years
    image

    Humans live on average about 70 to 80 years, lets say 75
    image

    This makes a shiba inu life goes by faster by a factor of 75/14.5= 5.1, lets say 5.

    A dog aged 15 months is, expressed in human lifespan: 15x5=75 months old which is about 6¼ years old, supporting the dream theory, as in humans it happens at the same 'age', as demonstrated by my own experience.

    It is a bit like https://www.goodnites.com/bedwetting-solutions/questions-answers/i-have-a-six-year-old-who-is-now-wetting-the-bed.aspx I guess.

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