For all new members, please check out the thread New to the Forum? What to do and forum guidelines.
How hard is too hard?
  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    ugh, I just found one of Pearls teeth, its pretty much the whole small tooth from what I can tell. She's been chewing on a big knucklebone and it seemed to be going fine. Maybe she was a bit overzealous, but we assumed it was because it was a new type of bone for her. Maybe she her tooth was bugging her and that made her irritable overall. We'd made a lot of progress on her possessiveness and were really surprised that she'd be so protective of a new bone. I dunno, but we've made an appointment with our vet so we're going to cover our bases anyway.

    Are knuckles too hard? is it possible it was the antlers that did it? He's what she's been chewing on lately;

    my fingers (kidding, sorta... we're working on it.)
    dried pig skin treats,
    Knotted rope,
    hollow hoof,
    small split antler, (new and she's chewed 50% of it up)
    whole antler, (not really interested)
    knuckle bones, (she gets really into these, I suspect this was the bone that she knocked the tooth out on)
    marrow bones (she doesn't really chew these down)

    Is it possible not thawing out the bones out fully was the problem? We normally give them too her right from the freezer.

    Also, I've done a few quick searches on the forum and online and come up short with a how hard a chew toy is too hard for Shibas. Are there any chew toys I should avoid?

    Thanks in Advance,
    Post edited by Calia at 2012-09-04 08:46:10
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    What kind of knuckle was it cooked, smoked, air dried or raw?

    I'm not fan of heavy beef bones due to how thick they are. The heaviest bone I feed has been beef ribs. She works on getting the raw meat off and does gnaw on some of the bone, but I take away once all the meat is gone.

    The marrow and knuckle type bones seem pretty hard..

    I rather give lamb ribs, pork ribs, lamb shank, or pork shoulder roast once she gets to the bone she grinds the jointed areas and once part that is all edible is gone I scoop out any marrow and give to her and toss the bone.

    Saya hasn't had issues with antlers, but she chews them on and off.

    I think Lindsayt given knuckle bones and hooves, but not sure what kind..

    It depends on the dog the bone might not be right due to the dog trying to crunch it in half and not chewing it correctly or bitten at a bad angle? I dunno.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
    Post edited by Saya at 2012-09-02 14:33:56
  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    raw knuckle, we've never used the cooked or smoked ones.. The ribs might be a good idea, to let her grind it with her back teeth. I'll try one and see how it goes.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Pork and lamb ones are edible beef ribs aren't Saya can grind some of the bones, but not all just tiny bit.

    the tooth that came out was it a puppy tooth?
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    I'd be shocked if it was, she's a year and 3 months old. It was the smallest tooth, first behind her large incisor.
  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    Finally got some smoked beef rib bones at my local store. Pearl quickly started to break splinters off. I was so disappointed, I thought this would finally be the ideal bones. She's been enjoying chewing on calf and pig ears and they've been going well.

    Also had a run in with some hoof shards, so we'll be steering clear of those too. I'm really happy with the pig and cow ears but they're not bones, not going to clean teeth the same way.

    I've got some raw beef rib bones. They small, and she finished it in 3 minutes, but they're raw so I don't have to worry about obstruction as much. I'll take a look for some larger raw beef rib bones and see if they last longer.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Just FYI, any dried bone, wether cooked or raw, will splinter and break into chunks.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • I don't give my dogs any dried/cooked bone because of the splintering. They get raw knuckle bones on occasion, though not often simply because I don't like the smell. They are for recreational chewing, though, not for a meal, and they are hard, but mostly te dogs gnaw on them.

    Most other (raw) bones they just eat. I often give them frozen bones too,and it doesn't seem to hurt them. The only time I've had a dog have tooth problems (broken tooth) was on a (raw) knuckle bone, but this was my GSD who had very weak and problematic teeth anyway (I think from the high fever he barely survived having parvo as a puppy). Otherwise, he did fine, and he was also raw fed (with bone).

    I don't really think knuckle bones are too hard as long as they are raw, not dried/smoked/cooked, but I guess it depends on the individual dog.

  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    @lindsayt those smoked splinters are the kind that can cause problems, right?
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    You know, I do still buy smoked bones from Merrick and Jones Co (the marrow bones and flat ribs and knee caps), but only give the smoked bones to certain dogs.

    Beebe is my "aggressive" chewer so she doesn't get to have those, but the rest of the dogs are very careful chewers (more like nibblers and lickers) and I really don't worry about them chomping down like Beebe does. She chomps straight down on anything that fits in her mouth, and of course she has slab fractures and missing teeth because of it.

    I always take any bones away raw or smoked that have been gone over and all the meat removed. Crunching the bone becomes too much of a temptation for Beebe at that point.

    And yes, it's the bone chards that even raw bones that sit out too long can break into, that seem to cause issues for some dogs. Mostly it is when they bite down on the chards and swallow a bunch of them (broken molars and upset stomach).

    The thing I take away from that is not to buy very small bones (except raw bones that are eaten right away, like ribs), and that big smoked bones like knuckle bones that are too big for a Shiba to wraps its mouth around and chomp down, are fine.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    Oh and, I don't worry about puppies and bones as long as they are not too small to be swallowed. They lack the jaw pressure and adult teeth to do much damage and its great for teething.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    bison knuckle bones have become the chewing item of choice. The raw rib bones I've found so far are all too small, but the small cut knucklebones take her an hour and she's willing to leave it alone if I offer a good enough treat. The ones I've found are smaller, so she's not able to chew for long enough to hurt herself.

    I'm uncertain if they're cartilage or load bearing bone, anyone know? Google and advanced search didn't give me anything.

    Once, I know that, I'll be sure of my decision.

    How often should I let her eat a 150-200 g bison knucklebone? I'd like to avoid wearing her teeth down too far and have heard some nasty stories.

  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4786
    If the bone is too large for her to get her back teeth around to bite down, than its ok if you're giving a weight bearing bone like a knuckle.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    damn, I just noticed that she's chipped one of her front teeth. I'm really confused, The biggest change has been using those buffalo knuckles. Is it possible the rawhide chews are to blame? Playing tugs couldn't possibly crack a tooth could it?

    Do dogs eat mud when they hurt their teeth? Or is that a separate thing?
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    I'm not a fan of weight bearing bones.. I'm just chicken on it even though Saya eats her food good it scares me..

    Hardest I've gone is beef ox tail and beef ribs. The beef ox tail is pretty meaty except the smaller ox tail parts..

    She mainly eats the meat off of it and sometimes she can grind the bone completely or she can only grind the outer part of the bone leaving half for me to pick up.

    Beef ribs she tears the meat off and she does get a bit of bone not very much, but enough to satisfy her bone intake for a few days..

    A beef ribs or beef ox tail can chip a tooth if the dog doesn't chew on it right.

    Here's an example of a bone in meal for Saya some boneless goose and pork shoulder roast she got a lot of meat off and grinded on the bone some too. She grinded on the jointed parts.
    Photobucket

    Same pork shoulder as above except when I first gotten it and fed it to her. I let her work on it once she ate enough I weighed it and then put back in the bag and into the freezer for next time the roast lasted a long time it was 9lbs..

    Since it was so meaty it was a boneless meal for while till she got to the bone of it then it became bone in meal and when it got less meat I added in either some boneless meat, ground meat or organs.
    Photobucket

    Coarse the big meaty roast isn't a chew for recreation.. so bad example.

    Like I said beef rib is only bone in meaty item she would use her paws to help get every bit of meat off of it.
    Photobucket

    Photobucket

    All clean! She used her front teeth to rib every bit of meat off.
    Photobucket

    Here's a meal she had few days ago boneless deer, chicken heart and ox tail it's medium in size not like the meatier portion.. I do think a ox tail could potentially chip or cause a tooth fracture as some of them are pretty hard. Some she can grind it easily some she stops half way and when the meat is gone.
    Photobucket

    I give chicken feet as part of her meal or as a yummy snack she loves them and not too hard
    Photobucket

    I didn't give beef ribs till she was two years into raw and ox tails she got big meaty ones a bit before two years, but I was very careful with them and if it looked like she couldn't grind it down I tossed it.

    Some dogs do fine with such chew bones some don't..

    Some take long time to not bite it so hard.

    the mud eating I dunno. Saya never eats mud she will chew up plants then spit the plant out I think she loves to destroy plants.. hehe

    I don't think I'd ever feed beef marrow bones or knuckles.. No where sells knuckle bones and the femur bones just doesn't have much meat to work with.. Though the marrow is good I'm sure she loves marrow..

    Saya has done fine with pork ribs, lamb ribs, hardest she has gone is beef ribs, ox tails, lamb shanks, lamb leg and pig foot..

    She has done fine on split pig foot can't find whole pig feet..

    Someone's dog did break a tooth on a pig foot so it can happen. It is a very boney item I'd say mostly bone tiny bit of tendons, a bit of meat and skin.

    Are you monitoring your dog when she has a chew item? Any raw chew toy I think eneds to be monitored.

    I think Conker's mom's dog broke a tooth on a beef rib. or maybe it was something else I don't know.

    Saya's teeth are clean without chewing on hard bones.. Only ones I brush is her canines as she doesn't use them much since she doesn't hunt her prey.. Canines don't get used much in chewing process.

    Just front teeth and sides or at least that what I notice with Saya.

    Sorry this happened. :\

    Does she need vet care on the teeth or it isn't total breaking where pulp is showing?
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Also I don't use raw hide chew items used to, but what I noticed when I did the raw hide got soft when the dogs licked it a lot or chewed on it..

    I dunno if raw hide be hard enough to break front teeth.

    I mainly stick to dehydrated fish skin, bully sticks, antlers and things like that.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • PearlPearl
    Posts: 66
    I've just tried giving Pearl young coconut, which after a vigorous googling I confirmed is okay for her to eat. I cut a thin opening on the top and pop the bottom off after I'm done drinking the water and scooping out the insides. She likes to lick the inside of the coconut out (it still has flavour). Then we play tugs with the stringy leaves (husk) on the outside until there is just a bit of the stringy stuff left on the outside.

    If I sell her on it she'll knock the coconut around and pass it back to me. Also, she'll grind her back teeth on the outside of the coconut when it is down to the woody husk. she can only grind against it, and because of the round shape and size she's only ever able to grind her teeth along side without getting a really good biting grip on it.

    Now that she's had them for a few weeks, I've noticed a few holes being poked in to the brown hard husk. I'm not sure if I should be worried or happy with that. Also, the ones that I have cut a space big enough for her to put her snout in, she's been able to crack the edges open a bit more.

    I think I'd like to file young coconut as a good chew toy to play with under supervision, but considering this a free toy I'll be cutting all my coconuts this way.

    Any thoughts? Experiences? Pearl is 35 lbs at least, so she's pretty big for a (half)shiba, that might be playing into the difficulties finding a chew toy that is just right for her.

    Post edited by Pearl at 2013-01-21 21:58:12
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6678
    Never done this before. I rarely get whole coconut though I do enjoy the coconut milk in smoothies.

    Saya goes nuts over unsweetened natural coconut flakes or shredded kind I use for baking. I like the natural kind taste good and less sugar..

    She also like coconut oil.

    I remember seeing on tv a pitbull getting coconut from the owner's tree when it fell..
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

In this Discussion

Who's Online (0)