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Temporary relief of itchy toes?
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    Lyla's been coned! :(

    Photobucket

    Poor Baby! We were at the lake this weekend and she was in and out of the water. It was hot, I just let her go in and out as she pleased. I know better, and should've made sure I periodically dried her feet, but failed. :( Today the hubby comes home from work and Lyla is not putting any pressure on her back left foot. Looked at it when I got home, and there's no cut or scrape, just REALLY red irriated toes. Looking at the other back one, it's not looking much better.

    I did some "advanced searching" and I'm pretty sure it's fungi, and given the whole lake situation plus the common symptoms; I've scheduled an appointment with the vet for tomorrow. We coned her when I noticed she had bit a part of the last toe and it was bleeding.

    She's putting more weight on it now that she's not scratching/biting it open, but I can't imagine how much that must itch. I've seen a couple of temporary relief suggestions like baking powder and peppermint oils? Wondering if you guys could expand a little bit more on those types of remedies to get us through until the vet tomorrow afternoon?

    She's been staring at me like this since the cone came on, and refuses to go lay down. I just feel terrible for her, so anything you can suggest to offer us some temporary relief would be much appreciated!!
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
    Post edited by sunyata at 2012-08-09 09:06:37
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    Antihistamines
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • Fill your bathtub ankle deep pour a tablespoon of peppermint oil and a cup of vinegar, let her soak her feet for 10-15mins. Try giving her treats while she's soaking so she isn't so nervous.
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    Thanks guys! Just got back from the vet and she has a double ear infection (yeast) and a staph infection in between her toes. Poor girl is miserable! Antibiotics, oral. Ear drops and a blue foat soak (which she actualy doesn't mind, so it must feel good!) Doc says she'll be back to normal by the end of the weekend! I'll be crossing my fingers!!
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 6675
    Poor shiba. :\ Glad it's fixable though.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 5year old Bella(Boxer), and 4year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    @JosieAndMarou With the soak that you do... I'm a little concerned with the vinegar hurting or burning in some of the open sores on her feet. Have you used this with the paws in similar shape?
    She's 3 days into the antibiotic and the ears are clean, but her paws are still raw. The soak they sent home is gone, I will call to get more tomorrow if that's what they recommend, but at this point I'm thinking I need to research other solutions. Glad I have you guys... ;) Have an appointment set up Friday to talk about allergies, already researching foods. Any more pointers, please feel free to point away!
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • @DakotaRose42 Yeah, don't do it with open sores. I meant it in reference with future itchy feet, to prevent the biting to the point of sores. You can still soak in water and peppermint oil though, but after clean the infected spots with a lightly peroxide dampened q-tip, then apply a small amount of a simple (just plain, no extra strength, Neosporin or generic brand) antibiotic ointment. Peppermint oil is really good to help keep the paws supple.
  • Also, if you could get ahold of California Natural dog food, I recommend it for allergies. It has been amazing on Marou!! They have 5 grain-free flavors, 3 are lower protein(21%) and the other 2 have 26% protein. I've been through so many different foods that I can't even remember them all, ha! Marou has a protein and a yeast allergy... The food's don't have alot of ingredients, so it helps cut down on food allergies. Also, if you rotate through all of the flavors it helps cut down on digestive irritation from food allergies, which has been a blessing to me because Marou has a sensative stomach. I still give him probiotics & enzymes, and his stools are firm and normal.

    Added: The price isn't bad either, its around the same price as Blue Buffalo.
    Post edited by JosieAndMarou at 2012-07-09 23:27:36
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    Perfect, that was one food I hadn't looked at yet! I will try the peppermint oil tonight, and I think the peroxide and neosporin before bed might be our saving grave in this. Waiting for the vet to call me back... ;) Thanks Josie!!!!
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • You are very welcome! This is what has worked for me do well having to deal with Marou's yeasty feet. Also, someone else metioned on here before about something called ”EMT gel” which I plan on picking some up, but its really awesome gel that jump starts the healing process. It can slow/stop an open wound from bleeding! The product looks/ sounds amazing, I just keep forget to order some, ah, Lol!
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    Got the California Natural food today, and discovered a new pet store that's geared to all natural pet items, AND they have Shiba stuff (magnets, figurines, bumper stickers...etc.) !!! I got the Herring and Sweet Potato and the Chicken and Rice. I get it home right at dinner time for them. Ususally, they eat out of their seperate dishes, then switch. There was NO switching tonight. They gobbled it up! I've never seen them eat so fast! I also mixed it with their old food, and they picked out all the California Natural Food! Hilarious. We got some Salmon Treats for them too, which they LOVE! Awesome product! The lady at the pet store actually said "Now, I know Shiba's sometimes get really sensitive to grains, so I'm going to send home some samples for the grain free products we carry! SIX trial size bags of SIX different flovors and brands! What an awesome shopping experience. They just earned ALL of my business! :)
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • I have a local little Mom and Pop store like that where I'm at and it is a blessing! They know me and my husband by name, hahaha! They have Shiba stuff also, like, I bought a cute car magnet that has a Shiba on it and says ”I heart my Shiba Inu”. They are the only place in my town that carries Californa Natural, and I just love it(so does Marou)!

    Hahaha, that is just precious that they dug the specific kibble out!

    I rotate Marou throw the grain-free flavors, mainly because he is so food sensative. He wa really gas-y on grains. Have you thought about going grain-free?
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    I hadn't, until I started talking to this lady. I've given them a couple pieces of the different grain free samples she gave me, and they really liked them. She doesn't carry any of the grain free CaliNat, The samples she gave me were Taste of the Wild, Evo and Healthwise. She said one was made by the same manufacture as the CaliNat, but I don't remember which one now. I wonder if I requested, if she would carry the grain free CaliNat for us. I mean, it's a guaranteed sale right? ;)
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • I would definitely ask! Worth a shot. Well, also there is a website(I'll have to find it again) that carries a grain-free bundle of California Natural, all 5 grain-free flavors in 5lb bags for somewhere around $65-$85. I'll find it for you, if your interested? Also if you auto send, it'll send the same bundle to for the date that you set it up for and that'll save you more money. But, umm... Oh yeah, Taste of the Wild is pretty good too! I just really like Cali Nat because it has a low list of ingredients, low protein, and it uses lentils instead of potatoes as the starch/filler.
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    I am interested in that website, if it's not too much work to find it again. It may be a good plan to just do the auto delivery.
    Well, we've only been on the CalNat for 3 days, but she's already starting to feel better, we still have a cone on her when we're at work, just because I don't want to have to start all over. I did have the cone off of her, while we were home and hanging out last night, and for the most part she didn't bother her paws at all! She still has some dry, cracked, flakey skin on the tops and in between the toes, but at least there is improvement, in the fact that they are not bright tomato red anymore. What a process!!
    I was able to finally find some peppermint oil in town here, (had I known it would be that difficult, I would've just ordered it online.) so i think this week we'll start that soak with the vinegar. Haha, my husband told me to get pet insurance today. Between the two Shiba's, I guess I can see his point. I'm at the vet once a week!
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    Debbie Downer here: The bad skin is really only an indicator of an off process in the larger picture, meaning, there is likely some system issue with your Shiba like atopy, or other immune problem, and most general practice vets are not great at managing this (aside from suggesting you buy their food and take steroids/antibiotics). These measures you are taking now will likely only be a temporary fix. Best to consult a Veterinary Dermatologist so there isn't more harm done than good. Peroxide can actually kill healing tissue, and prolonged use of neosporin may help promote an overgrowth of harmful bacteria. The fix with most "allergies" is going to be internal, not external.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    @lindsayt:
    ?? I am not using peroxide...? We only used the Neosporin for 2 times during the height of the redness and irritation.
    I’m not sure if a trip to a vet dermatologist is warranted quite yet. We are only about 10 days into this, and have not yet ruled out all of the external causes for the irritation. It appears that the allergies are actually stemming from something at our lake cabin. She was in perfect health before this incident. In fact I had her yearly visit 2 weeks prior to this outbreak, and she was given a clean bill of health. The vet was surprised how fast this seemed to hit her (overnight). I will keep in mind the Vet Dermatologist as we move through all of the possible irritants. Thanks for your insight!
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 4784
    You wrote "peroxide and neosporin before bed might be our saving grace in this".

    Good luck for a fast resolution with this.
    "Common sense isn't so common"
    photo c5d87957-61b6-48af-a440-4187cbfc861b_zps88ccdf88.jpg
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    Ah... I see... :) nope, I ended up reading on here and other sites about the negative effects of peroxide and didn't want to further the problem. I was sooo confused! ;)
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    @lindsayt Great News! Upon your recommendation, I started searching out Vet Dermatologist's in my area, and the one and only Vet in our area that has vet dermatology services... (drum roll...) is our vet! :) That pretty much just solidified my desicion to switch to this guy. We were seeing a younger gal at the same office, and her "Shiba experience" was less the desirable. This gentleman, has been absolutely wonderful and very Shiba knowledgable. I'm guessing that when I called about this issue, they scheduled us with him, (since he wasn't our normal Dr at the time) knowing he was a derm specialist. What a relief! Thanks again for the insight! :D
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    Lyla and her FEET! SOOoooooOOoooo…. last night we are all sitting in the bedroom and Lyla is at my feet, cone on. She is always trying to find ways to get her itchy feet within the circular vicinity of her face, so I am watching her… “Lyla, no biting” is my new favorite line. The little turkey actually looked at me then turned around, put the edge of her cone on her leg and moved her head back and forth. She was scratching her legs with her cone. I stopped her, and not 2 minutes later she did it again! I can only assume at this point she is doing it intentionally. I thought Monkey’s were the only animals that used tools. Ugh. Back to Square One
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • hondruhondru
    Posts: 529
    Gentian violet kills fungus faster than anything I've ever used. She'll have a purple foot, though! Seriously, though, it's practically magical. You get it at the pharmacy.
    -Heidi, with Rakka (shikoku) and Sosuke (kai ken)
  • DakotaRose42DakotaRose42
    Posts: 152
    @hondru OK, that sounds awesome!!! Does it sooth the itching as well?
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • mnmmnm
    Posts: 7
    @DakotaRose42 is your Shiba all well by now? My 2 Shibas (11 mths old) have itchy feet since about 2-3 months ago.

    About 1.5 months ago, we took them to Vet A - prescribed antibiotics (Clavamox) and topical cream (Centriderm) but none worked even after 2 weeks of application.

    We've stopped using baby wipes on their feet (now using water and cloth). Switched from Wellness Puppy to Core Original - the girl started licking her snout excessively, so we stopped that after few days, ande switched to Core Ocean for about 2 weeks and still no difference on the girl, but the boy stopped licking/gnawing at the same time started shedding big time.

    About 2 weeks ago, we went to Vet B - he said it's allergy, but we can't tell what it is without a blood test. He prescribed antihistamine, we coned them, and now in process of switching to Orijen 6 Fish. We're also spraying Richard's Organic Incredible Skin Spray to try and sooth the itch. And stopped taking them out for walks for about 3 days as we're also wondering if it's something in the grass that's causing this.

    Everytime we remove the cone, the girl will behave like a drug addict with an urge so strong she will endure the pain just to lick and gnaw on her feet till they are sore and sometimes bleed. It's heart wrenching! And we're a lil exasperated :(
  • Hi there @mnm!! I am sad to report she is not feeling better. It seems we have similar symptoms here! We have another visit with the derm vet a week from today. He has been on a personal leave due to death in his family (you can't really argue with that... ) and we are anxiously awaiting that visit.

    We have literally tried or at least considered (and sometimes ruled out) every kind of treatment EXCEPT the peppermint oil foot soak mentioned by JosieAndMarou, because I have been to EVERY store in this town and the places that do carry it are out, so I finally ordered some online and it should be here today.

    We switched her food to California Natural and give her a dose of Salmon Oil with every meal. The fungus in between the toes is gone, but while we were soaking her feet in this medicated solution, it seems like it dried out her skin so badly it's now itchy and flakey. I've tried to ease the itchy-ness with 100 % pure aloe, and also all natural aloe spray, I tried the spray with lidocaine; everything I put on her feet she just licks off.
    I have even out of desperation, sprayed bitter spray right on her paws, which didn't even phase her, she just licked it right off! I am almost to the point of putting dry socks on her wrapped in bitter spray tape. She is actually able to bite/lick/scratch her feet with the cone on, so all it's really doing is stopping her from gnawing off her foot at the ankle.

    The Gentian Violet sounded like a good idea, but you can't use it with ulcer like sores because it may tattoo the feet purple, she's got a ton of these ulcer like sores, so I'm avoiding that for now (I do have a BUNCH of it in stock now though).

    I have her on the Pet Allergy med, which is basically benadryl. I can really tell that works because about the time for her next one she is scratching and biting at them even more so. She also acts like a crack addict with the cone off too, mostly attributed to the bloody ooze that’s coming out of these sores. It's ugly. On the flip side, she has been super cuddly lately, which I am taking full advantage of. I also ordered a Thundershirt for her, I'm not sure if it'll work, but I am literally heartbroken watching her in so much discomfort, I’m hoping this will at least calm her nerves.

    Exasperated, is a good word for it, followed up by frustrated, exhausted and sad.
    Is the vet you are seeing a vet dermatologist by chance? I was blessed that the clinic I took my girls to, had one on staff so I was easily able to have appointments with him from the get-go. Even before I knew he was a derm vet. That would be about the only suggestion I have for you, and especially since you are going on 3 months of this nightmare I would do that, if you haven't already. Like @lindsayt mentioned "most general practice vets are not great at managing this (aside from suggesting you buy their food and take steroids/antibiotics). These measures you are taking now will likely only be a temporary fix. Best to consult a Veterinary Dermatologist so there isn't more harm done than good."

    *Will continue to wait for Dr. Dill to get back. I wish you luck! Keep me posted if you find any miracle treatments! :D
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • mnmmnm
    Posts: 7
    @DakotaRose42 "frustrated, exhausted and sad" indeed completes the exasperation you and I are feeling!

    The vet i'm seeing is not a dermatologist, but he's a specialist in other areas (Accupuncture, Chemotherapy, Echocardiography, Orthopaedic Surgery, Periodontal Therapy, Radiography, Ultrasounography), just not derm! lol. But i've heard fantastic reviews about him and his dedication, so when i'm returning next week for a follow up, I will ask when he thinks we need to see a derm. He did advise against it for now as it's costly and does not necessarily yield the results needed.

    I have tried bitter spraying - she usually hates it, but desperation led her to overcome it! I've also tried applying this medicated ointment (aka Tiger Balm) near her feet, which she usually avoid at all cost, but again... she decided to brave it just so she can lick/gnaw on her feet :(

    I am going to try the oatmeal shampoo bath next. Will prefer to stick with the natural/organic options first. And think I need to keep them on a longer fish based diet too to know if it's food.

    Will most certainly respond back if I get any success, and likewise wish you luck with the derm visit! :)
  • @mnm @JosieandMarou
    Great News! Finally we got the peppermint oil and soaked Lyla's feet in it! Almost instantly she was a different dog. Awesome!! We were even able to leave her unconed for a while because this is the only thing she won't lick! She took one whiff of each paw and left them alone! She's slowly starting to lick and gnaw again, as the Peppermint smell fades, but I'm excited that this may be the temporary relief (if nothing else) we were looking for! Thanks again Josie! :)
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • OtisOtis
    Posts: 22
    Anyone who is having trouble with allergies, dermatitis, dry flaky skin and itchy skin, should try coconut oil. I use it on my skin and in my food everyday. You can do the same with dogs, put it in their food (Otis LOVES it) or put it on their body (which they will lick non stop), It takes it a while to soak in (around 2 hours) and it's hard to get all the oil off, but I have seen a huge improvement in Otis's skin, and in mine.
  • @DakotaRose42 That is excellent!! I would just keep treating her with it, it'll start to soften and heal her paws.

    @Otis The shampoo I bathe Marou in has coconut oil in it and it keeps his skin well hydrated. Also by washing your dog in pure coconut oil (like you do) helps keep ticks from biting (it won't kill them, but ticks don't like to bite into semi-oily skin).
  • Update!

    Well, we finally got into the derm vet, for our 2nd appointment. Good news and bad news, but the bad isn't terrible so, we'll start there.

    Bad News:
    He is pretty sure that this is not a food allergy. It's not systemic, and isolated to her feet at this point. Since MN is known for their lakes, he has previous treated some dogs with allergies to lake algae and he is stating this looks to be the case. Especially since it first presented the day after being exposed to the lake water, and seemed to come on literally overnight.

    Good News:
    This is one of the mildest cases he has seen. Generally, it takes 3 -4 months to cure/heal and she is strictly forbidden to visit the lake. This will be the true test.

    We've got a steroid spray to use, which can wear at her immune system and for this he put her also on another round of antibiotics. He claims she'll be well enough for the cone off by Monday. I'm not holding my breath, but we'll see! :)

    Funny News:

    Lyla has a short complex! She is so friendly with almost all dogs, she's played with other dogs both larger and smaller. On the way out of the vet, we meet a St. Bernard. He's one year old and a GIANT! :) Him and Lyla meet face to face. She went into pure and udder panic in seconds once she truley "sized him up" and then she hit the reverse gear. This St. Bernard was so friendly and just wanted to meet her so instead of lunging at her or chasing her, he laid down on the floor, flat. Then started talking to her, like Shiba's talk... (you know... Shiba speak? Haha.) He waited patiently for her to inch over to him, the whole process took about 5 min. She smelled him, but really didn't care too much for him still and just avoided him until we finished checking out. I guess his owner told my husband he has a Shiba friend at daycare! Aww... I'd love to see those to friends play!! ;)
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • mnmmnm
    Posts: 7
    @DakotaRose42 good to hear there's some improvement! Just some updates fom my end...

    MoMo (boy) was on antihistamines for almost a month, condition got better - he stopped licking/gnawing. The vet stopped the medication and it's been almost 2 weeks and he's no longer licking/gnawing. but the feet still looks reddish.

    Myan (girl) was on antihistamines for 2 weeks followed by 2 weeks of steroids and daily cleaning with antiseptic solution - she stopped all the licking but the feet is still as bad if not worse. Most part of it has no fur, looks like chicken feet without feather! We also stopped her medication for about 2 weeks now, she licks ocassionally but not as often and stopped using the cone for many weeks which is good coz she's back to being active.

    Concurrently, we switched their diet to be poultry free - Orijen 6 Fish kibbles and occassional steamed/boiled fresh salmon. even the treats are fish based or meat-free. This diet has gone on for about a month now. We also tried to keep them off the grass during the walks and this one seem to have some minor improvement. But it's difficult cause they always want to charge for the grass to do their #1 and #2 when they are out.

    Vet still dont think we should do a blood test yet. He wants to give them a new anti-flea medication which he said will work faster/better than Frontline Plus. Just in case it's flea dermitits that's causing this. Gonna pick up the med this weekend, so will see how it goes! At least i'm happy she's active once again instead of being depressed from having to wear the cone :)

    you can see some of their pics from here:
    https://www.facebook.com/MoMo.and.Myan
  • @mnm Great to hear, you are having some relief! After our vet visit and the steroid spray that he sent home we have a 100% improvement. She still licks them constantly, but I think she is just obsessed with keeping them clean. No more red, flakey itchy paws!
    ~Steph and Wade~ Proudly owned by: Shiba and Lyla
    http://luv4shiba.tumblr.com/
  • I'm so glad the vet finally figured out what was going on with your girl! Itchy toes (well, itchiness in general) is such a long, exhausting, trial & error process to find an end to! But, we'll do anything for our babies!!
    Post edited by JosieAndMarou at 2012-09-20 03:27:13
  • ToshiToshi
    Posts: 63
    Has anyone tried povidone iodine and water as a foot soak?
  • JScarf5JScarf5
    Posts: 202
    I have not Toshi, but after reading this thread, i'm a little worried. My Bane has had extremely ithcy feet lately and has not started to itch all over along with massive shedding. Took him to the vet yesterday, and they gave me a short term dose of steriods. He said there is a lot of rag weed going around and that could be the cause? He said that the steriods should wipe out the itching but he was still itchy last night after I started the dose. I was thinking about trying the peppermint oil soak Josie mentioned to see if that helps. I feel this is the beginning of a lengthy healing process...
  • JScarf5JScarf5
    Posts: 202
    @JosieAndMarou - What type of vinegar? Please and thank you!! :)
  • distilled vinegar.
  • As a word of caution....whatever one decides to use make sure it's not irritating....often the ointments will cause the dog to simply lick and chew at their feet more.

    Monitor and use a cone if it becomes severe as you wait out derm. vet appt.

    Snf

  • ToshiToshi
    Posts: 63
  • amtiamti
    Posts: 1066
    I saw someone mention EMT first aid gel. I've used this on Millie when she came home from a week boarded at the physical therapy place. She was put on concrete floors and since she couldn't use her back legs, she was laying in pee for hours at a time and scraped up her backside really bad. It was all red and oozing when we got her and I went online and this gel was recommended highly. I found it at Tractor Supply for about $15 for I think 1 oz. You spread it over wounds so the cut heals. However, if the cut is oozing, you have to apply several coats and it may not dry completely. If it dries, it works as a waterproof barrier and also keeps bugs out as well as bacteria. It dries to a clear/faint yellow coat. I highly recommend it for any small cuts or abrasions. I don't think it will work on itchy paws though.

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